RE: Operation Barbarossa - Alpha AAR (Full Version)

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ComradeP -> RE: Operation Barbarossa - Alpha AAR (2/27/2010 6:15:43 PM)

Finland lacked the manpower and more importantly the economy to be able to support extensive prolonged operations outside of its own territory. The Finns had severe difficulty supplying what they had in the field a few months after the start of Barbarossa, and Mannerheim was perfectly aware that the Finnish economic would not be able to handle prolonged military operations.

It would be a nice feature if the Axis would get victory points for disbanding Finnish formations. The economy would be less strained and goodwill towards the Axis might be preserved. It would also force the Axis player to balance the need for more forces and the need to keep the Finnish economy operational, the same dilemma that Mannerheim faced. As the economy is fairly abstracted in WitE, the Axis player might be able to use Finnish forces in a way that is not only unhistorical but that also simply would not have been possible during the Second World War due to the state of the Finnish economy.

Edit: Elmo, I don't see withdrawal dates on the air unit information screenshots you posted, will these units stay for the entire war or is the withdrawal date not specified in the unit information screen, but rather in sort of a reinforcement screen like in TOAW?



PyleDriver -> RE: Operation Barbarossa - Alpha AAR (2/27/2010 7:56:11 PM)

Units auto withdraw. You have no choice, there gone. I havn't seen hows it done with air units but land units if not up to TOE spects relocate to the west edge of the map until the are... We also have a hotkey that color outlines units that are set for withdraw, refit, and static.



Kharkov -> RE: Operation Barbarossa - Alpha AAR (2/27/2010 9:25:58 PM)

Yes I agree. I think that having a graphic of the unit (similar to the original WIR) would really add to the atmosphere of the game. Is this in the plans do you guys know?



USSLockwood -> RE: Operation Barbarossa - Alpha AAR (2/27/2010 9:53:08 PM)

Elmo3, why is KG3's morale so low?



oldman45 -> RE: Operation Barbarossa - Alpha AAR (2/27/2010 9:59:08 PM)

In one of the earlier posts it talked of the penalties for mixing organizations, how much of an issue is this for the Germans? Mixing organizations was one of the army's strengths due to the staff training.

I have to say your AAR has brought a tear or two my eyes, can't wait for this game to come out!!



critter -> RE: Operation Barbarossa - Alpha AAR (2/27/2010 10:02:21 PM)

I know they're working on the AI...But as I said in the AI thread. Every city should have a unit garrisoned in it to stop the German from doing excztly what Elmo did. In fact I do in myself in every game I play as the Russians.
It could just be a container unit that the AI could shift sub units in and out.
In RGW you can take major cities with HQ units.[:-]



Zort -> RE: Operation Barbarossa - Alpha AAR (2/27/2010 10:13:56 PM)

Great AAR. But one thing that is always surprising is everyone wants to not have Hitler/Stalin restrictions but don't really complain about the Finns and their stop line. Understand the historical limitations to the Finns but the historical limitations to both the sovs and axis then should apply too imo. I figure the designers won't change it but how about an option for no Finn restriction that will keep the sovs honest and not just leave weak units on the stop line.



elmo3 -> RE: Operation Barbarossa - Alpha AAR (2/27/2010 11:02:59 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: doktor

Elmo3, why is KG3's morale so low?


I noticed that too and meant to check on it. Thanks for the reminder



elmo3 -> RE: Operation Barbarossa - Alpha AAR (2/27/2010 11:05:09 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: oldman45

In one of the earlier posts it talked of the penalties for mixing organizations, how much of an issue is this for the Germans? Mixing organizations was one of the army's strengths due to the staff training.

I have to say your AAR has brought a tear or two my eyes, can't wait for this game to come out!!


I make the effort to keep formations together but if an attack needs a unit from a different org to give it much better odds then I'll add it and not worry about any penalty.



elmo3 -> RE: Operation Barbarossa - Alpha AAR (2/27/2010 11:29:48 PM)

The Finns have moved about as far as they can go for now (turn 12) so I'll only show this area again if something interesting happens.

[image]http://i285.photobucket.com/albums/ll55/Andru_Hammerskjold/BarbarossaAARFinlandturn12.jpg[/image]



elmo3 -> RE: Operation Barbarossa - Alpha AAR (2/27/2010 11:33:45 PM)

We pushed across the Luga River in two places and hopefully next week awe can exploit those crossings and move the western part of the Soviet line closer to Leningrad. I cropped this picture close to give you a better idea of how the game really looks. It's still not as clear as my monitor but better than the wider shots.

[image]http://i285.photobucket.com/albums/ll55/Andru_Hammerskjold/BarbarossaAARnorthturn12.jpg[/image]



elmo3 -> RE: Operation Barbarossa - Alpha AAR (2/27/2010 11:40:35 PM)

The goal for AGC was to reduce the two pockets (gray areas) and they did that although we had to use more armor than I had hoped.  The AI did attack and attempt to break out last turn but our lines held.  Not much eastern progress but we should have more success next week now that we have taken care of the rear area cleanup.

[image]http://i285.photobucket.com/albums/ll55/Andru_Hammerskjold/BarbarossaAARcenterturn12.jpg[/image]



elmo3 -> RE: Operation Barbarossa - Alpha AAR (2/27/2010 11:44:56 PM)

The noose is tightening aroudn Kiev and with luck we may create the pocket next week.  We sent in two waves of bombers to pound the city defenders in preparation for the coming assault.

[image]http://i285.photobucket.com/albums/ll55/Andru_Hammerskjold/BarbarossaAARsouthturn12.jpg[/image]



elmo3 -> RE: Operation Barbarossa - Alpha AAR (2/27/2010 11:48:48 PM)

So much for turning the Soviet left flank as I fantasized last turn.  But note the entrained Italians just appearing at the western edge of the screen shot.  I'm sure they will turn the tide for us!

[image]http://i285.photobucket.com/albums/ll55/Andru_Hammerskjold/BarbarossaAARRumaniaturn12.jpg[/image]



MattFL -> RE: Operation Barbarossa - Alpha AAR (2/27/2010 11:53:55 PM)

Great AAR, really enjoyable.

A quick question:

Why do some units show the factors as "3=3" and others as "3-3"? (I.e. what is the difference between the = and the -). It seems all Germans have a hyphen and most soviets, but not all, have an equals sign.

Thanks!



elmo3 -> RE: Operation Barbarossa - Alpha AAR (2/28/2010 12:11:41 AM)

Losses through turn 12. Note that Losses = Killed + Captured + Disabled. That problem was fixed.

[image]http://i285.photobucket.com/albums/ll55/Andru_Hammerskjold/BarbarossaAARtrn12groundlosses.jpg[/image]

[image]http://i285.photobucket.com/albums/ll55/Andru_Hammerskjold/BarbarossaAARtrn12airlosses.jpg[/image]



elmo3 -> RE: Operation Barbarossa - Alpha AAR (2/28/2010 12:19:34 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: mattp

Great AAR, really enjoyable.

A quick question:

Why do some units show the factors as "3=3" and others as "3-3"? (I.e. what is the difference between the = and the -). It seems all Germans have a hyphen and most soviets, but not all, have an equals sign.

Thanks!


The Axis units are set to Combat Value - Movement Points and the Soviets are set to Normal Combat Vlaue = Defensive Combat Value (takes terrain and fortificatios into account). Note the = does not mean equals. It is just different from the - so you can easily see what values are being displayed. Enemy values are not exact.



Neal_MLC -> RE: Operation Barbarossa - Alpha AAR (2/28/2010 2:14:00 AM)

A technical question or two if I might. What kind of system are you running? How long does it take to run the Soviet turn?



elmo3 -> RE: Operation Barbarossa - Alpha AAR (2/28/2010 2:40:37 AM)

P4 3.0 GHz, 2 GB RAM, 8800GT w/512MB RAM, Win XP.  It probably takes about 5 minutes, give or take a minute or two, in the '41 campaign depending on whether the AI is trying to break out of any pockets.  Less in a smaller scenario.



Neal_MLC -> RE: Operation Barbarossa - Alpha AAR (2/28/2010 3:15:45 AM)

Great, Thanks, faster than I expected. I am running pretty much the same thing.

I am sure the urn would run faster if there were't so many Italano units running around[:D]



Balou -> RE: Operation Barbarossa - Alpha AAR (2/28/2010 10:07:19 AM)

elmo,
quote:

... We sent in two waves of bombers to pound the city defenders

Are there combat reports to show how much damage you did to a particular objective (eg Kiev) ? I figure out that sometimes more than one or two aerial attacks are required to soften a target.





ComradeP -> RE: Operation Barbarossa - Alpha AAR (2/28/2010 11:02:23 AM)

Seems pretty gamey that the AI is holding back the Finnish Army with stacks with a defensive strength of 1. There doesn't seem to be a single division in that line.

I know it's hard to code and open to exploitation, but perhaps an offensive/defensive value trigger could be added to the hexes next to the no attack line, similar to the AV trigger in Manchukuo in WitP:AE so the Soviets have to defend it with more credible units than a few guys in a bunker.



elmo3 -> RE: Operation Barbarossa - Alpha AAR (2/28/2010 11:28:11 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Balou

elmo,

Are there combat reports to show how much damage you did to a particular objective (eg Kiev) ? I figure out that sometimes more than one or two aerial attacks are required to soften a target.



Yes you can see bombing results like any other combat result.



elmo3 -> RE: Operation Barbarossa - Alpha AAR (2/28/2010 11:29:31 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: ComradeP

Seems pretty gamey that the AI is holding back the Finnish Army with stacks with a defensive strength of 1. There doesn't seem to be a single division in that line.

I know it's hard to code and open to exploitation, but perhaps an offensive/defensive value trigger could be added to the hexes next to the no attack line, similar to the AV trigger in Manchukuo in WitP:AE so the Soviets have to defend it with more credible units than a few guys in a bunker.


Something along those lines has been discussed. Not sure if any decision has been made yet.



Shadrach -> RE: Operation Barbarossa - Alpha AAR (2/28/2010 6:58:35 PM)

Man this AAR's got me really psyched for this game... I can sit at work and stare at those screenshots forever, my coworkers think I'm being very concentrated [:D]

Keep it up please [&o]



PyleDriver -> RE: Operation Barbarossa - Alpha AAR (2/28/2010 7:11:02 PM)

If you think this AAR is something that is consuming, wait until you have the tools in your hand. If your a WWII buff, your time is lost, you can't wait to play hooky from something you should be doing...



elmo3 -> RE: Operation Barbarossa - Alpha AAR (2/28/2010 7:19:56 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: stian

Man this AAR's got me really psyched for this game... I can sit at work and stare at those screenshots forever, my coworkers think I'm being very concentrated [:D]

Keep it up please [&o]


I'll keep it coming but there may not be a turn today. It's my day to do the taxes and I'm still not finished. I have also been tracking down a couple of potential bugs in the game in my free time.



Neal_MLC -> RE: Operation Barbarossa - Alpha AAR (2/28/2010 7:48:46 PM)

So I should get the divorce paperwork going now to save my wife the time?



cantona2 -> RE: Operation Barbarossa - Alpha AAR (2/28/2010 7:54:53 PM)

elmo, how far do you intend to go with this AAR? Will you go as far as Taifun and the Soviet counter?



wiking62 -> RE: Operation Barbarossa - Alpha AAR (2/28/2010 8:47:23 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Neal_MLC

So I should get the divorce paperwork going now to save my wife the time?


This game is going to cause a lot of strife with our wives.[;)]



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