RE: Operation Barbarossa - Alpha AAR (Full Version)

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freeboy -> RE: Operation Barbarossa - Alpha AAR (3/2/2010 6:08:21 PM)

two ?
Supply is obviously a huge part of the game..
can you discuss both air issues.. interdiction of supplies and air ressuply?

Does the game support a map mode that indicates levels of supply , obviously with FOW it shold be for hex one controls?

ok third ?

If the enemy has a small or narrow corridor open to get supplies.. can we interdict these specific hexes?

Thanks and keep up the great work.. cannot wait for a red army aar!



elmo3 -> RE: Operation Barbarossa - Alpha AAR (3/2/2010 6:30:45 PM)

There is no air interdiction of supplies.  You do have a limited ability to resupply units by air.  There is no on-map supply mode.  However there is a hotkey to see isolated units, units more than 50 MP from a railhead, and units getting beachhead supply.



bosbes -> RE: Operation Barbarossa - Alpha AAR (3/2/2010 7:39:38 PM)

Keep coming with those AAR's; it definitely wets my appetite!



B455 -> RE: Operation Barbarossa - Alpha AAR (3/2/2010 9:01:54 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Zort

Great AAR. But one thing that is always surprising is everyone wants to not have Hitler/Stalin restrictions but don't really complain about the Finns and their stop line. Understand the historical limitations to the Finns but the historical limitations to both the sovs and axis then should apply too imo. I figure the designers won't change it but how about an option for no Finn restriction that will keep the sovs honest and not just leave weak units on the stop line.


Yes something needs to be done to this. It's totally gamey if Soviets just retreat in Karelia and man the "stop-line" with very weak units. It won't create historical circumstances of the battle of Leningrad at all. Actually, why even include the Finnish front if it has no meaning in the game?



Muzrub -> RE: Operation Barbarossa - Alpha AAR (3/3/2010 9:26:31 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: B455


quote:

ORIGINAL: Zort

Great AAR. But one thing that is always surprising is everyone wants to not have Hitler/Stalin restrictions but don't really complain about the Finns and their stop line. Understand the historical limitations to the Finns but the historical limitations to both the sovs and axis then should apply too imo. I figure the designers won't change it but how about an option for no Finn restriction that will keep the sovs honest and not just leave weak units on the stop line.


Yes something needs to be done to this. It's totally gamey if Soviets just retreat in Karelia and man the "stop-line" with very weak units. It won't create historical circumstances of the battle of Leningrad at all. Actually, why even include the Finnish front if it has no meaning in the game?



That is a very good point- its neither here, nor there, so why bother?



ComradeP -> RE: Operation Barbarossa - Alpha AAR (3/3/2010 10:39:56 AM)

quote:

its neither here, nor there, so why bother?


Because people will complain even more if the entirety of the Finnish front is missing, rather than "only" the northern/Murmansk part.

The Finnish front does have a meaning in the game, as the Finns can move further if Leningrad is captured and the front isn't an automatic stalemate. The only major problem is that the Soviets have no reason to garrison their border currently, as a handful of 1 point battalions on the Soviet side of the border/no-attack line can stop the entire Finnish army.



Muzrub -> RE: Operation Barbarossa - Alpha AAR (3/3/2010 11:38:48 AM)


quote:

Because people will complain even more if the entirety of the Finnish front is missing, rather than "only" the northern/Murmansk part.



Indeed people will complain, and will always complain of how the Finnish front is handled in the game. But this was also an issue in WIR- "why can't Murmansk be included" (was the catch cry).

Anyway to get back on point (WIR being a different game), why not include Murmansk- if the Finnish front is worth doing, its worth doing properly.




elmo3 -> RE: Operation Barbarossa - Alpha AAR (3/3/2010 12:32:06 PM)

Guys.  I already asked once for people not to use my AAR thread to debate what is or is not included with regard to Finland.  There are other threads for that.  Thanks.

You were right Pavel.



SGHunt -> RE: Operation Barbarossa - Alpha AAR (3/3/2010 1:59:40 PM)

OK Elmo - GROFAZ expects great things after his 'dream' of capturing Stalin cowering in the cellars of the Kremlin.

Any change in your operational plans for AGC, or is the intention to repeat as far as possible the same straight thrust to see what the AI does this time?  

It will be interesting to see what happens around Kiev, as it seemed that the Soviet withdrawal made sense here - maybe a partial withdrawal with a strong garrison fighting to the death, as at Brest Litovsk, would be the best tactic?   Bleed the Germans in a fortified position without losing too many divisions to encirclement.   (Any supply benefits for being cut off in a major city?)

Fascinating to see the workings of an Alpha test here.

Stuart



elmo3 -> RE: Operation Barbarossa - Alpha AAR (3/3/2010 3:17:46 PM)

AGC will continue to push toward Moscow.  Kiev is better defended this time as you will see in a while.  Being in a city (and I use that term loosely here) has benefits to the Germans when the weather is bad but I don't think there are specific supply benefits to either side.  Will have to check the manual to say for sure though.



elmo3 -> RE: Operation Barbarossa - Alpha AAR (3/3/2010 3:58:56 PM)

AGN is swinging forces to the open ground southwest of Leningrad.  However there are a lot of Soviets between us and the goal so this is going to be a tough slog.  We'll get as close as we can before winter but I don't see us getting into the city before the blizzards hit.

[image]http://i285.photobucket.com/albums/ll55/Andru_Hammerskjold/AARAGNturn12.jpg[/image]



elmo3 -> RE: Operation Barbarossa - Alpha AAR (3/3/2010 4:07:08 PM)

Turn 12 for AGC followed a similar patter to the previous version.  We liquidated the pocket even though the Soviets were in supply.  It cost us more casualties but nothing could be done about that.  We also move as many mobile units as possible into the area near Vyazma for the anticipated breakout toward Moscow next turn.  1st SS Mot Div and 60th Mot Div arrived by train from the west and were inserted into the line northwest of Vyazma.  Three more infantry divisions also arrived in the area this turn and will be fed into the flanks next turn if we achieve our breakthrough.

[image]http://i285.photobucket.com/albums/ll55/Andru_Hammerskjold/AARAGCturn12.jpg[/image]



elmo3 -> RE: Operation Barbarossa - Alpha AAR (3/3/2010 4:13:10 PM)

AGS was not able to complete the encirclement of Kiev due to the major rivers (the Desna, Dnepr, and Pripyat) and swamps to the north.  However we are in position to close the pocket next turn and start reducing the defenders.  I am hoping the AI will stand and defend at this point.  I see no value in them giving up Kiev without a fight now.

[image]http://i285.photobucket.com/albums/ll55/Andru_Hammerskjold/AARAGSturn12.jpg[/image]



elmo3 -> RE: Operation Barbarossa - Alpha AAR (3/3/2010 4:16:27 PM)

Some progress along the Rumanian front, about all we can expect given the low priority of this area right now.  Perhaps we can kick in the door down here once Kiev falls.

[image]http://i285.photobucket.com/albums/ll55/Andru_Hammerskjold/AARRumaniaturn12.jpg[/image]



elmo3 -> RE: Operation Barbarossa - Alpha AAR (3/3/2010 4:17:13 PM)

I'll run the AI part of the turn and post the losses in a little while.



elmo3 -> RE: Operation Barbarossa - Alpha AAR (3/3/2010 4:54:24 PM)

Losses through turn 12:

[image]http://i285.photobucket.com/albums/ll55/Andru_Hammerskjold/AARturn12groundlosses.jpg[/image]

[image]http://i285.photobucket.com/albums/ll55/Andru_Hammerskjold/AARturn12airlosses.jpg[/image]



elmo3 -> RE: Operation Barbarossa - Alpha AAR (3/3/2010 5:02:20 PM)

One quick shot from the start of turn 13.  The Soviets did indeed decide to stay and defend Kiev.  The tester in me is glad to see that, the German in me, not so much.  [;)]

[image]http://i285.photobucket.com/albums/ll55/Andru_Hammerskjold/Kiev.jpg[/image]



rickier65 -> RE: Operation Barbarossa - Alpha AAR (3/3/2010 7:49:02 PM)

Elmo,

thanks for posting this AAR. I've been trying to avoid this entire thread, knowing it would make me start anticipating the game. But this morning I couldn't resist anymore.

And I was right, it is making me anticipate the release!

Thanks again, and good job on the ARR - I hope the map in the final version looks as nice as some of these screens.

Thanks
Rick



elmo3 -> RE: Operation Barbarossa - Alpha AAR (3/3/2010 8:11:22 PM)

Glad you are enjoying it.  And yes the map is really a work of art.



wiking62 -> RE: Operation Barbarossa - Alpha AAR (3/3/2010 8:30:52 PM)

Hi elmo,

In your latest AGN screenshot there is a German infantry unit that is half black and half grey. My understanding was that SS units were all black. What is this unit?



elmo3 -> RE: Operation Barbarossa - Alpha AAR (3/3/2010 8:58:48 PM)

The Elite SS are all black.  Units that are half black/half gray are Non-Eilte SS.  In this case it's the Polizei SS Inf Div.



zbig -> RE: Operation Barbarossa - Alpha AAR (3/3/2010 11:29:07 PM)

Will the game allow you to restart from a previous turn?



elmo3 -> RE: Operation Barbarossa - Alpha AAR (3/4/2010 1:50:14 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: zbig

Will the game allow you to restart from a previous turn?


If you save from the previous turn and you are playing the AI then sure. PBEM is not implemented yet but I believe there will be mechanisms in place to prevent replaying an outcome you don't like.



elmo3 -> RE: Operation Barbarossa - Alpha AAR (3/4/2010 7:04:56 PM)

On turn 13 (9/11/41) the 4th Pz Grp (red) of AGN completed it's relocation to the northwest and is now driving east toward Leningrad with some success.  We're stripping the flanks to the south and trying to get more of 18th Army (purple) into the fight too.  From here on there is little room for maneuver so it will be pretty much a straight ahead push to the goal.

[image]http://i285.photobucket.com/albums/ll55/Andru_Hammerskjold/AARAGNturn13.jpg[/image]



elmo3 -> RE: Operation Barbarossa - Alpha AAR (3/4/2010 7:13:44 PM)

If you go back a couple of pages in the AAR you will recall that turn 13 saw the Germans occupying W Moscow and being poised to take the rest of the city on the next turn.  As you can see the upgraded AI is having none of that this time around.  We made good progress toward Moscow but came nowhere near to the breakthrough from the previous play.  Still we are getting closer and some strong forces are poised to try again next turn.  You can expect more improvements in the AI as we get closer to launch too.

[image]http://i285.photobucket.com/albums/ll55/Andru_Hammerskjold/AARAGCturn13.jpg[/image]



elmo3 -> RE: Operation Barbarossa - Alpha AAR (3/4/2010 7:19:28 PM)

AGS has isolated Kiev and we bombed the defenders this turn.  Not sure if we'll start the siege next turn or let them starve a bit longer.  Time is critical from now until the blizzards come so we may have to take more losses to clear the defenders sooner.  Units of 1st Pz Grp (red) are pushing to the east and will try to break out to the southeast next turn.

[image]http://i285.photobucket.com/albums/ll55/Andru_Hammerskjold/AARAGSturn13.jpg[/image]



elmo3 -> RE: Operation Barbarossa - Alpha AAR (3/4/2010 7:22:27 PM)

Minor progress along the Rumanian frontier.

[image]http://i285.photobucket.com/albums/ll55/Andru_Hammerskjold/AARRumaniaturn13-1.jpg[/image]



elmo3 -> RE: Operation Barbarossa - Alpha AAR (3/4/2010 7:46:47 PM)

Losses through turn 13:

[image]http://i285.photobucket.com/albums/ll55/Andru_Hammerskjold/AARturn13groundlossed.jpg[/image]

[image]http://i285.photobucket.com/albums/ll55/Andru_Hammerskjold/AARturn13airlosses.jpg[/image]



wiking62 -> RE: Operation Barbarossa - Alpha AAR (3/4/2010 8:35:41 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: elmo3

The Elite SS are all black.  Units that are half black/half gray are Non-Eilte SS.  In this case it's the Polizei SS Inf Div.



Hmmmm, i don't really see the need for this as most wargame conventions are grey/green for Wehrmacht, black for SS and light blue for Luftwaffe. I would suggest that 99% of wargamers know which are elite SS units and those that are not.

Taking this further, if elite SS units are distinguished from non elite, should not elite Wehrmacht divisions - Gross Deutschland etc, also be colour coded?




elmo3 -> RE: Operation Barbarossa - Alpha AAR (3/4/2010 9:21:59 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: hart2412

...

Taking this further, if elite SS units are distinguished from non elite, should not elite Wehrmacht divisions - Gross Deutschland etc, also be colour coded?



That sort of thing was discussed. Not sure if it will happen though.



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