RE: Operation Barbarossa - Alpha AAR (Full Version)

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elmo3 -> RE: Operation Barbarossa - Alpha AAR (3/14/2010 5:43:14 PM)

The AI is making too many brigades right now.  We'll look into it.



ComradeP -> RE: Operation Barbarossa - Alpha AAR (3/14/2010 9:10:43 PM)

There's also another problem: a Rifle Division seems to have an attack strength of 1. A brigade also has an attack strength of 1. As a Soviet brigade is about the size of a reinforced battalion by Western standards, producing a mass of brigades is both more efficient in terms of manpower and more efficient in terms of attack strength than producing Rifle Divisions early in the war.



Pford -> RE: Operation Barbarossa - Alpha AAR (3/14/2010 9:27:41 PM)

Playing with that great glob of Soviet units seems disconcerting, not to mention tedious. When does the game activate corps consolidation for the Russians?



ComradeP -> RE: Operation Barbarossa - Alpha AAR (3/14/2010 9:40:11 PM)

quote:

I think the AI is trying for defense in depth which is a good idea to keep the Axis from punching through a thin line and being free to make pockets.


The Soviet units are not good enough for a defense in depth with single units. A stack with a defensive strength of, say, 40 is more difficult to attack than 4 stacks with a defensive strength of 10. Even if such a "layered" defense would slow your forces down enough to prevent encirclement, Soviet casualties would be high in any case.



elmo3 -> RE: Operation Barbarossa - Alpha AAR (3/14/2010 9:49:08 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Pford

... When does the game activate corps consolidation for the Russians?


Dec 41 - Cavalry Corps (built from 3 Cav Divs)
April 42 - Tank Corps (3 Tank Brigades)
June 42 - Rifle Corps (3 Inf Brigades/Divs)
Sept 42 - Mech Corps (3 Mech/Mot Brigades)




kmussler -> RE: Operation Barbarossa - Alpha AAR (3/15/2010 12:05:21 AM)

Capitaine, I'm not so sure. I have the SPI War in the East and remember having three-deep stacks of Soviet Rifle divisions in a front all the way from Leningrad to Odessa. That's quite a few rifle divisions. They didn't have any punch but they filled the spaces.

Kurt

p.s. I'm really enjoying the AAR, Elmo. [:D]



Joel Billings -> RE: Operation Barbarossa - Alpha AAR (3/15/2010 12:33:18 AM)

A 1 strength RB is not likely the same as a 1 strength RD. 1 is just the minimum listed for a combat unit. So you could have a unit that is really a .1 and another that is a 1.3, so they could be quite different. You lose granularity in the weaker units. The only way to improve this was to increase the values and that led to too many big valued units and too many stacks that go over 99 strength (thus getting an X since we can't display 3 digits). It's a balancing act.

It would appear that the AI is building an unhistorical number of brigades, something the player would have a harder time doing given harsher admin point limits. Keep in mind the current size of the Soviet army is about 25% bigger than it was historically at this time, so that is having an impact as well.



elmo3 -> RE: Operation Barbarossa - Alpha AAR (3/15/2010 1:28:51 AM)

I have fast forwarded a couple of turns in my AAR as nothing of note happened.  It is now 12/4/41 (turn 25) and all four weather zones are experiencing Blizzard conditions.  Ice level in zone 4 is 4 and it's 5 or above in the other three zones so most rivers are frozen solid and lose their defensive benefit (bad news for me).  There are several First Winter rules in effect for each Blizzard turn from Dec 41 through March 42.  Non-Finnish Axis units have their combat values divided by three are more likely to retreat in combat and less likely to cause Soviet units to retreat.  Soviets (and Finns) have their combat values doubled to reflect first winter surprise and their better preparedness.  First Winter rules can be mitigated somewhat in tows, cities, and urban areas so I moved a number of units off the front line and into reserve in populated areas.  Supply is adversely affected in certain areas of the map during these blizzard turns.  There is additional attrition for non-Finnish Axis units.  I "think" mountain units get a break from some of these special rules but I'm not seeing that in the manual right now.

I'll run the AI part of the turn (since we certainly aren't doing anything this turn) and post the bad news in a while.



elmo3 -> RE: Operation Barbarossa - Alpha AAR (3/15/2010 2:49:58 AM)

12/4/41 (turn 25)  Blizzard and thick Ice in all four zones this turn.  I can just hear Bing Crosby now:

Oh the weather outside is frightful, 
But the fire is so delightful,
And since we've no place to go,
Let It Snow! Let It Snow! Let It Snow!

The northern part of AGN's line held pretty well but as someone suggested the Soviets are trying to punch through near Pskov.  My non-Elite SS unit in Pskov was in reserve mode but did not help on one single defense in that area.  Cowards.  Guess that's why they are non-Elite.  [8|]  They are probably going to see some action this turn whether they like it or not. The lower part of the AGN front fared even worse with many holes punched in the line.  We'll need to pull back in this area as you can see in the second screen shot.

[image]http://i285.photobucket.com/albums/ll55/Andru_Hammerskjold/AARAGNturn25.jpg[/image]

[image]http://i285.photobucket.com/albums/ll55/Andru_Hammerskjold/AARAGN2turn25.jpg[/image]




elmo3 -> RE: Operation Barbarossa - Alpha AAR (3/15/2010 2:57:45 AM)

12/4/41 (turn 25)  AGC took a beating along the northern and eastern ends of the bulge.  But the bulge flanks held, barely.  We'll have to think hard about what to do here.  Counterattacking is out of the question so it's just a matter of deciding how far to pull back and who might get left behind if we do.  Some reserves participated here but again it was not as many as I had hoped.  Not sure what the problem is with them refusing to come out and fight.  The lower portion of the AGC front held pretty well as you can see in the second shot.

[image]http://i285.photobucket.com/albums/ll55/Andru_Hammerskjold/AARAGCturn25.jpg[/image]

[image]http://i285.photobucket.com/albums/ll55/Andru_Hammerskjold/AARAGC2turn25.jpg[/image]





elmo3 -> RE: Operation Barbarossa - Alpha AAR (3/15/2010 3:03:34 AM)

12/4/41 (turn 25) Reserves in Kiev also failed to answer the call and the Soviets broke through southeast of Kiev as a result.  Other fighting along the was minor and the Rumanians actually did better than expected.

[image]http://i285.photobucket.com/albums/ll55/Andru_Hammerskjold/AARAGSturn25.jpg[/image]

[image]http://i285.photobucket.com/albums/ll55/Andru_Hammerskjold/AARAGS2turn25.jpg[/image]



elmo3 -> RE: Operation Barbarossa - Alpha AAR (3/15/2010 3:08:27 AM)

OOB and Losses through turn 25:

[image]http://i285.photobucket.com/albums/ll55/Andru_Hammerskjold/AAROOBturn25.jpg[/image]

[image]http://i285.photobucket.com/albums/ll55/Andru_Hammerskjold/AARturn25groundlosses.jpg[/image]

[image]http://i285.photobucket.com/albums/ll55/Andru_Hammerskjold/AARturn25airlosses.jpg[/image]



elmo3 -> RE: Operation Barbarossa - Alpha AAR (3/15/2010 3:12:15 AM)

So we lost about 75,000 men and the Soviets lost about 200,000 men since the last loss report.  Some of those were on the couple of turns I skipped over but most were this turn.  If that were it for blizzards and bad weather effects I'd say we did well but this is just the beginning of what could be two or three months of brutal weather. And turn 26 is blizzard in all four weather regions...



freeboy -> RE: Operation Barbarossa - Alpha AAR (3/15/2010 4:47:29 AM)

I was looking at those armoredspearheads.. they for sure are threatened, unless Hitler orders you to stand and testthe enemy ai, I would move west! obviously right?> I am intersted to see where you try to take a stand..
Can forces create fortifications? in this game...



Iron Duke -> RE: Operation Barbarossa - Alpha AAR (3/15/2010 10:18:24 AM)

Hi
Great aar
question regarding units in reserve

What is the max distance a unit can be from the front line before it cannot respond ?

cheers



elmo3 -> RE: Operation Barbarossa - Alpha AAR (3/15/2010 11:39:16 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: freeboy

I was looking at those armoredspearheads.. they for sure are threatened, unless Hitler orders you to stand and testthe enemy ai, I would move west! obviously right?> I am intersted to see where you try to take a stand..
Can forces create fortifications? in this game...


Yes they can ding-in and create fortifications up to a level of 5 depending on the situation. Either side can also create fortified zones or regions that are static units although their usefulness is questionable as I'm seeing in my AAR.



elmo3 -> RE: Operation Barbarossa - Alpha AAR (3/15/2010 11:44:58 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Iron Duke

Hi
Great aar
question regarding units in reserve

What is the max distance a unit can be from the front line before it cannot respond ?

cheers


Reserves can commit if within 6 hexes on defense and 3 hexes for an attack. There are a number of other factors that influence whether they will commit including battle odds, leader checks, MP's available, number of units already committed, and organization to name a few.



Jim D Burns -> RE: Operation Barbarossa - Alpha AAR (3/15/2010 12:22:39 PM)

I wouldn’t be surprised if your reserves are failing to react because their reaction range is halved or reduced even less in Blizzards. They probably need to pass a special die roll just to get a chance at reacting, and then it is probably a very small chance if they do get to make the reaction die roll.

Jim



ComradeP -> RE: Operation Barbarossa - Alpha AAR (3/15/2010 12:40:22 PM)

Elmo: what's the minor Axis production like currently? I see several countries are not replenishing equipment. The Slovak tanks seem to be gone forever, even though they formed their Fast Division turns ago.



elmo3 -> RE: Operation Barbarossa - Alpha AAR (3/15/2010 1:02:51 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: ComradeP

Elmo: what's the minor Axis production like currently? I see several countries are not replenishing equipment. The Slovak tanks seem to be gone forever, even though they formed their Fast Division turns ago.


That Slovak armor symbol is a database bug. It's really an HQ which is why it stays at 0. I'm not up on production and how it works yet so maybe Pavel or Jim will jump in on Axis minor production. I know a certain percentage of disabled manpower is returned to each ally and Germany will send armaments points to allies who are low if Germany has enough, but that's about all I know.



ComradeP -> RE: Operation Barbarossa - Alpha AAR (3/15/2010 2:34:28 PM)

OK, maybe the Fast Division didn't have armour in 1941.

Is there a fixed extra MP cost for mud/blizzard conditions, or does it depend on terrain?



wiking62 -> RE: Operation Barbarossa - Alpha AAR (3/15/2010 4:22:32 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: ComradeP

OK, maybe the Fast Division didn't have armour in 1941.

Is there a fixed extra MP cost for mud/blizzard conditions, or does it depend on terrain?


The Slovak Fast Division had the following armoured unit in August 1941:

12th Panzer Battalion

2 x Armored Company

Anti-Tank Company (motorised)






elmo3 -> RE: Operation Barbarossa - Alpha AAR (3/15/2010 5:11:06 PM)

Well we're not talking about the same unit then.



ComradeP -> RE: Operation Barbarossa - Alpha AAR (3/15/2010 5:19:39 PM)

quote:

The Slovak Fast Division had the following armoured unit in August 1941:

12th Panzer Battalion

2 x Armored Company

Anti-Tank Company (motorised)


I was confused for a moment, the Slovak 1st Motorized Infantry/Fast Division indeed had tanks on paper in 1941. I seem to recall the unit using Panzer 38 (t)'s. I don't know what their tank strength was after being reformed and becoming operational again in August-September 1941. It does seem weird that the Slovaks start with tanks (an error according to Elmo), but end up with none, especially as both the Brigade Pilfousek already had tanks (the 1st Slovak Tank Battalion had two tank companies) and the Fast Division seems to have had tanks in 1941.



tacfire -> RE: Operation Barbarossa - Alpha AAR (3/15/2010 5:19:46 PM)

Let me chime in here - great AAR Elmo! Just by looking at the length of this thread your AAR is generating a lot of interest in the game. As a big fan of TOAW and WitP and WitP-AE, I know I will be buying this one when it comes out.

One question: what do all the red dashed lines on the map mean? I see there is one for RR track changes from Baltic to Soviet side, but it looks like there are other ones too that are hard to read.
I also hope the developers tone down the color of those red dashed lines before the games release. The map is so beautiful and they overpower the map as they are now in my opinion.



Montbrun -> RE: Operation Barbarossa - Alpha AAR (3/15/2010 5:50:13 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: ComradeP

quote:

The Slovak Fast Division had the following armoured unit in August 1941:

12th Panzer Battalion

2 x Armored Company

Anti-Tank Company (motorised)


I was confused for a moment, the Slovak 1st Motorized Infantry/Fast Division indeed had tanks on paper in 1941. I seem to recall the unit using Panzer 38 (t)'s. I don't know what their tank strength was after being reformed and becoming operational again in August-September 1941. It does seem weird that the Slovaks start with tanks (an error according to Elmo), but end up with none, especially as both the Brigade Pilfousek already had tanks (the 1st Slovak Tank Battalion had two tank companies) and the Fast Division seems to have had tanks in 1941.


The "Pilfousek Brigade" had 30 x LT vz.35 [Pz.35(t)], 10 x LT-38 [Pz.38(t)], and 7 x LT-40 [Pz.38(t) Export Version].



PyleDriver -> RE: Operation Barbarossa - Alpha AAR (3/15/2010 6:21:37 PM)

The red lines...There are 4 lines that are for reference. One is the Baltic States rail zone that had Europe Rail gadge. Then the Finnish extent line (unitil Leningrad falls), and another its as far as they can move later. The last is the other minor allies line (unit can't go north of it)...We havn't done the final map changes yet and I believe theres a color change coming for those lines...



wiking62 -> RE: Operation Barbarossa - Alpha AAR (3/15/2010 7:49:30 PM)

When the Pilfousek Brigade was re-organised into the 1st Mobile/Fast division in August 1941 the panzer battalion was equipped with sixty nine LT vz 38s (Pz 38t).



elmo3 -> RE: Operation Barbarossa - Alpha AAR (3/15/2010 9:04:08 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: tacfire

....

One question: what do all the red dashed lines on the map mean? ....


Glad you like the AAR. Those lines are to show limits on where Axis allies can move/attack.



elmo3 -> RE: Operation Barbarossa - Alpha AAR (3/15/2010 9:07:01 PM)

I'll post the results for turn 26 later tonight.  In a word...grim.



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