RE: Operation Barbarossa - Alpha AAR (Full Version)

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freeboy -> RE: Operation Barbarossa - Alpha AAR (3/16/2010 8:21:25 PM)

is there any way to stockpile suppleis ?



Smirfy -> RE: Operation Barbarossa - Alpha AAR (3/16/2010 8:27:48 PM)


The 9th seem strung out on a long frontage does that effect their efficency, supply comand and control and the like?



jaw -> RE: Operation Barbarossa - Alpha AAR (3/16/2010 8:44:27 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: ComradeP

quote:

The TOE labels don't always match the year the TOE changes. If a TOE was changing very late in the year, I would label it for the next year. A good example is the '44 Infantry division TOE which actually comes into effect in late 1943.


Doesn't that cause some problems with equipment that doesn't exist/isn't in production at the time of the TOE change, not to mention with equipment that would become obsolete/disappears from the TOE too early? For example: infantry divisions switching from PaK 36/PaK 38 AT battalions to PaK 38/PaK 40 AT battalions?


No, the TOE labels are just labels. The important thing is the dates in use and these are usually tied to equipment availability where necessary. Also the game system controls equipment by class as well as by type so while a TOE might call for a particular tank type it can take any available type from that class. For example, the TOE might want a Panzer IIIm but if none are available it will take any medium tank that is available.



elmo3 -> RE: Operation Barbarossa - Alpha AAR (3/16/2010 9:05:25 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: freeboy

is there any way to stockpile suppleis ?


Units can have over 100% of what they need but I'm not sure what the upper limit is.



elmo3 -> RE: Operation Barbarossa - Alpha AAR (3/16/2010 9:07:26 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Smirfy


The 9th seem strung out on a long frontage does that effect their efficency, supply comand and control and the like?


As long as I keep the units within command range of their HQ's and the Corps HQ's within range of the Army HQ they should be OK. Of course in bad weather it takes more MP's to move per hex so that can make it harder for units to get supplied. Being closer to a railhead helps too.



The SNAFU -> RE: Operation Barbarossa - Alpha AAR (3/16/2010 9:13:43 PM)

Hard to say for sure but it appears 9th Army was less able to hold in places where they were forced to defend clear terrain. I assume forests/wooded areas offer more defensive benefits.



Smirfy -> RE: Operation Barbarossa - Alpha AAR (3/16/2010 9:43:18 PM)

quote:

As long as I keep the units within command range of their HQ's and the Corps HQ's within range of the Army HQ they should be OK. Of course in bad weather it takes more MP's to move per hex so that can make it harder for units to get supplied. Being closer to a railhead helps too.


One of your Korps HQ's is 9 hexs awy from its parent army HQ's, seems alot.



elmo3 -> RE: Operation Barbarossa - Alpha AAR (3/16/2010 9:52:43 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Smirfy

One of your Korps HQ's is 9 hexs awy from its parent army HQ's, seems alot.


Reading the manual now. I may have misspoken about ranges. I was thinking lower HQ's had to be in range of higher HQ's but now that I read it that section refers to units being withing range of an HQ. So a unit needs to be within 5 of it's Corps HQ if attached to the Corp. But if the unit reports directly to an Army HQ then it needs to be within 15 hexes of it. Range to front/army group is 45 and OKH/STAVKA is 90. I don't see any requirements for distance from subordinate HQ to parent yet.



Smirfy -> RE: Operation Barbarossa - Alpha AAR (3/16/2010 11:04:07 PM)

quote:

Reading the manual now. I may have misspoken about ranges. I was thinking lower HQ's had to be in range of higher HQ's but now that I read it that section refers to units being withing range of an HQ. So a unit needs to be within 5 of it's Corps HQ if attached to the Corp. But if the unit reports directly to an Army HQ then it needs to be within 15 hexes of it. Range to front/army group is 45 and OKH/STAVKA is 90. I don't see any requirements for distance from subordinate HQ to parent yet.


Those distances do seem a bit far to the point of them being rather pointless., whats a hex 20 miles?



PyleDriver -> RE: Operation Barbarossa - Alpha AAR (3/16/2010 11:23:33 PM)

Hexs are 10 miles...



Smirfy -> RE: Operation Barbarossa - Alpha AAR (3/17/2010 12:49:27 AM)

quote:

Hexs are 10 miles...


Am I understanding this correctly? The range from STAVKA/OKH to Army Groups/Fronts is 900 miles (kinda kills the Hitler HQ's fun vibe) The range from Army Group/Front to Army is 450 miles. From Army to Korps/Corps is 150 miles and from Corps/Korps to division is 50. If thats the case it seems kinda just a bit much and if units can directly report bypassing HQ's a tad pointless. Paulus certainly would have been safe



stevekten -> RE: Operation Barbarossa - Alpha AAR (3/17/2010 1:20:32 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Smirfy

quote:

Hexs are 10 miles...


Am I understanding this correctly? The range from STAVKA/OKH to Army Groups/Fronts is 900 miles (kinda kills the Hitler HQ's fun vibe) The range from Army Group/Front to Army is 450 miles. From Army to Korps/Corps is 150 miles and from Corps/Korps to division is 50. If thats the case it seems kinda just a bit much and if units can directly report bypassing HQ's a tad pointless. Paulus certainly would have been safe


suggest you read some books on the length of front divsions/korps/armys covered, especially during the 42 offensive in the south. It will suprise you and make these numbers more realistic.



elmo3 -> RE: Operation Barbarossa - Alpha AAR (3/17/2010 1:59:03 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Smirfy

quote:

Hexs are 10 miles...


Am I understanding this correctly? The range from STAVKA/OKH to Army Groups/Fronts is 900 miles (kinda kills the Hitler HQ's fun vibe) The range from Army Group/Front to Army is 450 miles. From Army to Korps/Corps is 150 miles and from Corps/Korps to division is 50. If thats the case it seems kinda just a bit much and if units can directly report bypassing HQ's a tad pointless. Paulus certainly would have been safe


No. Those ranges are for units that are directly reporting to that particular HQ, not from HQ to HQ. If you overload an HQ with units reporting to it directly it adversely affects a number of game functions.



CaptBeefheart -> RE: Operation Barbarossa - Alpha AAR (3/17/2010 2:36:50 AM)

Thanks for the replacement and reinforcement screenies. Could you also show us aircraft and tank production?

And good luck holding back the Soviet onslaught.

Cheers,
CC



PyleDriver -> RE: Operation Barbarossa - Alpha AAR (3/17/2010 4:30:44 AM)

Alot of this is what we kicked around for supply and support. Meaning leaders thru the chain to do "die rolls" to provide support units in battles, and the supply chain to maintain the needs. Supply has been our largest task for over a year. It was a mess when we started, how do we get it close to historical, and make it playable and understood... Well if they could get me happy, I'd say you well be also. Hell I bitch when it's 60 outside...lol...



Smirfy -> RE: Operation Barbarossa - Alpha AAR (3/17/2010 9:41:50 AM)

quote:

suggest you read some books on the length of front divsions/korps/armys covered, especially during the 42 offensive in the south. It will suprise you and make these numbers more realistic.


Think you are kinda missing the point sure administrative distances were stretched that did not mean they were optimum especially in the 42 offensive.



Smirfy -> RE: Operation Barbarossa - Alpha AAR (3/17/2010 9:46:57 AM)

quote:

Alot of this is what we kicked around for supply and support. Meaning leaders thru the chain to do "die rolls" to provide support units in battles, and the supply chain to maintain the needs. Supply has been our largest task for over a year. It was a mess when we started, how do we get it close to historical, and make it playable and understood... Well if they could get me happy, I'd say you well be also. Hell I bitch when it's 60 outside...lol...


I agree playability is the main consideration but hopefully the concept wont be redundant to the level it looks in a couple of screenies. But then again thats whats testings for.



elmo3 -> RE: Operation Barbarossa - Alpha AAR (3/17/2010 11:49:17 AM)

Today is St Patrick's Day and my wife's birthday so the chances of me having time for a turn are low.  I know everyone wants to see me get slapped around on another blizzard turn but in real life it's predicted to be over 60 degrees and sunny here in upstate NY so if I do have any free time, the yard work beckons. Sorry.



elmo3 -> RE: Operation Barbarossa - Alpha AAR (3/17/2010 11:55:12 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Commander Cody

Thanks for the replacement and reinforcement screenies. Could you also show us aircraft and tank production?

And good luck holding back the Soviet onslaught.

Cheers,
CC



Here is a shot of part of the production screen. Don't ask me to decipher all the columns please.

[image]http://i285.photobucket.com/albums/ll55/Andru_Hammerskjold/production.jpg[/image]



critter -> RE: Operation Barbarossa - Alpha AAR (3/17/2010 1:13:14 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: elmo3

Today is St Patrick's Day and my wife's birthday so the chances of me having time for a turn are low.  I know everyone wants to see me get slapped around on another blizzard turn but in real life it's predicted to be over 60 degrees and sunny here in upstate NY so if I do have any free time, the yard work beckons. Sorry.


The Fuhrer can forgive the interuption for Momma Elmo's birthday. But for yard work? [&:] [:D]
Happy Birthday Frau Elmo.



elmo3 -> RE: Operation Barbarossa - Alpha AAR (3/17/2010 6:48:37 PM)

Just got a notice that my Photobucket bandwidth is running out.  So in case the pics suddenly stop being displayed you'll all know why.



freeboy -> RE: Operation Barbarossa - Alpha AAR (3/17/2010 8:52:11 PM)

you can directly load pc to forum at lower res no?



elmo3 -> RE: Operation Barbarossa - Alpha AAR (3/17/2010 8:55:23 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: freeboy

you can directly load pc to forum at lower res no?


Probably but I never tried. Always used Photobucket.



freeboy -> RE: Operation Barbarossa - Alpha AAR (3/17/2010 11:25:03 PM)

I just direct dump intothe forum, easy..
let me know if you have any ?'s
tell your wife happy Bday!
enjoy the time off



stevekten -> RE: Operation Barbarossa - Alpha AAR (3/18/2010 3:18:58 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Smirfy

quote:

suggest you read some books on the length of front divsions/korps/armys covered, especially during the 42 offensive in the south. It will suprise you and make these numbers more realistic.


Think you are kinda missing the point sure administrative distances were stretched that did not mean they were optimum especially in the 42 offensive.


Trying to figure what you problem with the ranges are then, you said "If thats the case it seems kinda just a bit much".




Smirfy -> RE: Operation Barbarossa - Alpha AAR (3/18/2010 8:46:17 AM)

quote:

Trying to figure what you problem with the ranges are then, you said "If thats the case it seems kinda just a bit much".


Well if a Corps HQ is 90 miles away from it parent Army HQ one would imagine it would be less effective relative to a Corps HQ 50 miles distant. Likewise one would imagine a Division would benefit being 20 miles away from a Corps headquarters rather than say 60 miles. If Im understanding things correctly units can be directly attached to higher headquarters and bypass corps command subject to penalty if too many avail themselves. HQ's it seems are not dependant on distance between themselves and a higher HQ to function efficently. I would worry that the devlopers go to the great length of producing a chain of command and OOB and it then becomes subject to exploit (always a pitfall in computer games) or a feature with little impact.



PyleDriver -> RE: Operation Barbarossa - Alpha AAR (3/18/2010 9:26:13 AM)

Well the big thing that happens by having them in higher command is you dont get any support in combat (over 5 hexs)...It really helps in combat results to have those support units jump in...



ComradeP -> RE: Operation Barbarossa - Alpha AAR (3/18/2010 9:41:13 AM)

So, basically, the participation of support units attached to HQ's is abstracted in the sense that, as long as HQ's are in range, the support units attached to it support the combat by "moving" to the hex or "moving" within range (as far as the engine is concerned), whilst they actually stay in the HQ hex?



PyleDriver -> RE: Operation Barbarossa - Alpha AAR (3/18/2010 10:45:50 AM)

Yes, so having those battilions attached to a HQ, the "leaders numbers" (how good he is) add in the die roll to press them into the battle, sweet huh...



Zovs -> RE: Operation Barbarossa - Alpha AAR (3/18/2010 12:05:56 PM)

quote:

HQ's it seems are not dependant on distance between themselves and a higher HQ to function efficently. I would worry that the devlopers go to the great length of producing a chain of command and OOB and it then becomes subject to exploit (always a pitfall in computer games) or a feature with little impact.


This is not true, each HQ has to be in command range of a higher HQ. Generally, divisions & brigades report to Corps HQ and then Corps HQ report to Armies and Armies report to Army Groups and then the Groups report to OKH for the Germans. For the Soviets brigades, divisions and corps report to Corps HQ (early war) or Armies, Armies report to Fronts and Fronts report to Stavka.

Each higher HQ has a command range that increases or decreases as you navigate the food chain. The 5 hex radius to receive sub-support units is for combat only, to assign sub-support units directly this is not the case.



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