DW-Doubts and comparisons vs other games

DW-Doubts and comparisons vs other games (Full Version)

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solops -> DW-Doubts and comparisons vs other games (3/27/2010 1:07:43 PM)
I am wanting to get this game, but I am a bit hesitant. In the last year or two I have bought Armada 2526, SINS and Lost Empires: Immortals and I have been enjoying Aurora. All have interesting features and none were "bad". Armada 2526 shows some real promise, especially after the patch. SINS got deleted from my hard drive pretty quick - just not my kind of game. I thought it a bit shallow and too much like an RTS shooter for me. I still like heavily modded MOO3 a LOT and I probably play Sword of the Stars with all the expansions as much as the rest combined. So, where does that leave me with regard to Distant Worlds? I am worried about it being too much like SINS, my least favorite of the lot.

Sarissofoi -> RE: DW-Doubts and comparisons vs other games (3/27/2010 1:14:03 PM)
Defnitle better than Armada. Armada is crap then this isnt great achivment. More enjoyable than SINS. In SinS I get bored fast. I dont very like RTS without story. And SINS is your basic RTS but in space. More playable than Immortals. Much more. And go more smoothly. Not that good as SOtS with expansions but slight better than vanillia basic version.But game is diffrent from SotS. SotS focus on tactical battles here you have more global aproach. BTW There is much place for improvment. I buy it 5minuts after realese. Never expeceted tat I do somethinng that stupid and irrensposible. Excitmend take over me. Although I dont thnk so that was complete waste f money. Meyby little(big little if you get me) to fast. Game is not bad. Have some technical issue. I can see they dont have enough beta test. Kinda Paradox games problems. Game is playable thought. Also some things dont work as they should. Retrofiting your own designs ships is currently broken. How this can slip betatest I dont know. It is very irritating and main reason for not buying this game right now. Wait for patch and if they dont gonna realese it fast forget this game for some times. Game for first time look heavy on the interface but when you know it more it is kinda enough to operate without problems but have some minors flawns. Actually I find enjoying this game. AI isnt very smart but can handle few things. Some game mechanics look strenge(like collecting bonusses from other races-in some matter this make sense in other makes none). On the other hands game is playing niceespecially first part but when you hit enough tech you mass spawn coloniess and game lost on it. I will prefer games with less colonizable worlds. Also this game dont have nothing common with MoO3 if you thinks about internal politics. Diplomacy isnt very appleing too. resarch is only about components for ships and starbases and goverment system isnt very balancing. Also customisation is rater poor. If you think about modding game like EU - you can forget this. *My own opinion and this is true opinion. As you see no bitching.

wodin -> RE: DW-Doubts and comparisons vs other games (3/27/2010 1:25:51 PM)
ANother way to judge the game is read as many forum threads since release as possible...I have and have come out with the feeling that this game has something abit special....I havent bought it myself not being a 4x fan...but after reading the threads here Ive been convinced and will buy at a later date. If Ive been convinced and not even into this genre then Im sure you should buy the game... Still read the forum here....take you time no rush

lordxorn -> RE: DW-Doubts and comparisons vs other games (3/27/2010 1:29:30 PM)
I think you make alot of quick assumptions without trying to get to know the game mechanics and how to make things work. Your comments about the colonization system is contrary to what everyone is else is saying. Everyone else is saying that if they colony spam like other games mechanics require you to win, in Distant Worlds it can lead to disaster. I too was very disappointed with Armada, because it delivered a 4x game that was not all that much different from other 4x in the past and certainly didn't improve any of the aspects it borrowed from. Distant Worlds on the other hand is a very unique 4x. The economy I have to fully figure out, and I guess that is part of the joy for me. Unlike, Armada that had the opressive corruption cost at launch, DW's economy doesn't appear to be broken. The answer to my initial problems has been addressed by Elliot in the War Room. Distant Worlds is a truer 4x game in the sense that you feel like a ruler of a inter-stellar empire, but one that is capitalist. What I mean by that is that you don't tell a planet, like in Armada, exactly what buildings to build. Your job is to explore new systems, to exploit new resource, so you can expand your empire, and xterminate anyone who you see it. All the tools Codeforce provides you in doing this has been done extremely well, way above and beyond any other 4x first time efforts. Let's face it, MOO2 was a huge improvement over the first (in my humble opinion). Add to all of what I just said, and the fact that there IS A PLETHORA if information that Matrix has masterfully released to us in the form of countless videos, customisation guide (Which I think is very moddable), and now post release AARs. I think you will enjoy Distant Worlds, and maybe because you are a student shouldn't pick this up because you might not get any school work done. [X(]

solops -> RE: DW-Doubts and comparisons vs other games (3/27/2010 1:31:39 PM)
I have been reading these forums for a week, especially so in the last 48 hours. There are some very intriguing comments, but I'd like some that are more specific. SINS scared me.

wodin -> RE: DW-Doubts and comparisons vs other games (3/27/2010 1:34:01 PM)
Sarissofoi has admited he likes the game...he also admits he likes to bitch and moan...which is well and good...but if it puts someone off buying the game which they will prob like and a small indy developer loses money then that isn't to good.... LIke I said take time to read the threads here...everyone has an opinion...so far a VAST majority are very good indeed. just read your last post...title a thread "Compare DW to SINS"...you may get the answer your looking for..

elmo3 -> RE: DW-Doubts and comparisons vs other games (3/27/2010 1:37:43 PM)
DW is much more like MOO3 done right than SINS. It's 4X in real time (which you can slow to a very sedate pace and pause) rather than an RTS with some 4X features tacked on. If you like MOO3 modded then you will like DW.

Evil Tactician -> RE: DW-Doubts and comparisons vs other games (3/27/2010 1:55:59 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: elmo3 DW is much more like MOO3 done right than SINS. It's 4X in real time (which you can slow to a very sedate pace and pause) rather than an RTS with some 4X features tacked on. If you like MOO3 modded then you will like DW. I disagree on that one, sorry. Distant Worlds still plays like an RTS - with the exception that the game pauses when you design a ship or enter another menu. Combat or otherwise it's still exactly like other RTS. DW is absolutely nothing like Moo3. They have in common that they are sci-fi strategy games in the 4x genre, but gameplay wise they are vastly different. If I had to compare DW to any other game out there right now unfortunately it would have to be Sins, although Sins is graphically/technically implemented a bit better. DW has the better gameplay elements/features of the two. That said, I believe anyone who prefers turn-based (as I do) would prefer DW over Sins. (But from playing so far, DW doesn't quite hit the mark to be considered as a worthy replacement for the great turn-based 4x games either.)

ASHBERY76 -> RE: DW-Doubts and comparisons vs other games (3/27/2010 1:56:33 PM)
Think EU3 in scope,immersion,research and colonizing.Think lost empires in galaxy size but with 20 races,think MOO in ship design,diplomacy,combat.Think CIV4 for resources ala luxury and strategic recources.Think IG2 for the real time gameplay and story elements.This just about covers the comparisons apart from the game has no abstracted elements at all.The ships,freighters,etc are on the screen as well as combat, which is unique. . I think Codeforce did a amazing job on the A.I.I would not have thought it possible to have a zillion ships each having their own A.I rountine as well as having the A.I empires do a great job in expanding,ect.

lordxorn -> RE: DW-Doubts and comparisons vs other games (3/27/2010 2:00:32 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: ASHBERY76 Think EU3 in scope,immersion,research and colonizing.Think lost empires in galaxy size but with 20 races,think MOO in ship design,diplomacy,combat.Think CIV4 for resources ala luxury and strategic recources.Think IG2 for the real time gameplay and story elements.This just about covers the comparisons apart from the game has no abstracted elements at all.The ships,freighters,etc are on the screen as well as combat, which is unique. . I think Codeforce did a amazing job on the A.I.I would not have thought it possible to have a zillion ships each having their own A.I rountine as well as having the A.I empires do a great job in expanding,ect. ASHBERRY I think makes a good point here, talking about EU3 in comparison to DW.

Webbco -> RE: DW-Doubts and comparisons vs other games (3/27/2010 2:18:10 PM)
Haha Ashbery I cannot believe I'm seeing this. Your positive comments amongst lots of comments that are, well, a bit more negative. Now THERE'S a turnaround!

mllange -> RE: DW-Doubts and comparisons vs other games (3/27/2010 3:22:04 PM)
I gave myself a good 24 hours after purchase, trying to get enough playing time in to develop my impressions, but I guess I'm in the minority on this game; I find myself somewhat dissappointed. After reading much of the fanfare prior to release I built up very high hopes for myself that aren't quite satisfied in Distant Worlds, (at least not at this stage of development). I'll elaborate a little momentarily, but first I want to say that this is a good release - it holds up very well when compared with other games in many respects. For a single-programmer shop, this title is a major effort, and the author/programmer/designer should be commended. That said, the combat falls short of either SOTS or SINS and is vastly sub-par compared to Aurora. If you enjoy the tactical combat control aspects of Aurora even in the slightest, you'll probably be dissappointed here. Research and ship design is another area that feels somewhat shallow, not because there isn't enough to research, but rather because gaining a new technological improvement simply feels like 'leveling up', certainly not like a research scientist or ship systems designer. This probably matches the design goals of the game perfectly, but it feels a bit blah when again compared to Aurora. There are no jump points and jump engine technologies, meaning another huge strategic and tactical element is missing, with similar results. The sense of scale feels a bit odd to me as well, it certainly looks massive, but at the system level that scale is largely lost for me. Whereas both SOTS and Aurora provide a good naval-like sense of search and destroy via sensors and detection, (especially Aurora with Active/passive/thermal/EM), in DW it rather feels like "jump everything into the system and then it becomes a free-for-all". Lastly, you won't find officers, leaders, research scientists, or anything of the sort in DW. Not a huge deal, and probably matching the design goals of the game, but again I miss it in comparison.

wodin -> RE: DW-Doubts and comparisons vs other games (3/27/2010 3:45:34 PM)
Can someone give me a link to Aurora please...thanks

solops -> RE: DW-Doubts and comparisons vs other games (3/27/2010 3:56:17 PM)
http://aurora.pentarch.org/ All in all, DW sounds OK. Ashbery: "Think EU3 in scope,immersion,research and colonizing.Think lost empires in galaxy size but with 20 races,think MOO in ship design,diplomacy,combat.Think CIV4 for resources ala luxury and strategic recources.Think IG2 for the real time gameplay and story elements.This just about covers the comparisons apart from the game has no abstracted elements at all.The ships,freighters,etc are on the screen as well as combat, which is unique." ---Thanks. I like this. Evil tactician: "Distant Worlds still plays like an RTS - with the exception that the game pauses when you design a ship or enter another menu. Combat or otherwise it's still exactly like other RTS." - This is my fear and your comment is a downer for me. Nim8or: "Whereas both SOTS and Aurora provide a good naval-like sense of search and destroy via sensors and detection, (especially Aurora with Active/passive/thermal/EM), in DW it rather feels like "jump everything into the system and then it becomes a free-for-all". - Good info. It sounds like the tactcal side may lack some immersive "feel". This is certainly where SINS collapsed for me. The "jump everything into the system and then it becomes a free-for-all" is not a good thing. It sounds like the game does well within its design parameters and those may be broad and deep enough to make a good game. If I had all my wishes, I could probably not play it. Poop...I guess I'll have to buy it and see. There are too many names I have read for years saying good things for me to ignore....and there may be patches to make it better....

Pratzen -> RE: DW-Doubts and comparisons vs other games (3/27/2010 4:49:49 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: lordxorn All the tools Codeforce provides you in doing this has been done extremely well, way above and beyond any other 4x first time efforts. Let's face it, MOO2 was a huge improvement over the first (in my humble opinion). I have to take exception to that. How could anyone think that MOO2 was superior in any way to MOO, the original. Fact is, if I could find a version of the original MOO that would run on XP, I would be playing it right now!!

putzinator -> RE: DW-Doubts and comparisons vs other games (3/27/2010 5:01:22 PM)
I heard that Good Old Games is going to be releasing MOO and MOM in April so you can get your wish, Pratzen :)

JonathanStrange -> RE: DW-Doubts and comparisons vs other games (3/27/2010 6:14:07 PM)
Having played all of the older games mentioned, I realize that barring some not yet seen convincing negative opinions, I'll purchase DW with a week or so. I've got to pay lip-service to my personal policy of not buying first day and always waiting to see how a game strikes the early adopters.

wodin -> RE: DW-Doubts and comparisons vs other games (3/27/2010 8:55:28 PM)
Just checking out that Aurora game.....looks like my cup of tea....thought I might be able to play it on my netbook....though not sure if it will work....looks extremely detailed...like some real sci fi simulator rather than a game.. Well that was mind bogeling....hhhmmm....haven't a clue where to start and what todo....not even sure if the game is playing or in pause or what I hould be doing with that mass of info...still I can tell something as detailed as this must be awesome once you understand it.

Aurelian -> RE: DW-Doubts and comparisons vs other games (3/27/2010 8:59:53 PM)
Just know that Aurora only has 1 screen resolution.

Erik Rutins -> RE: DW-Doubts and comparisons vs other games (3/27/2010 9:03:44 PM)
Please discuss Aurora on the general discussion forum guys, thanks.

PDiFolco -> RE: DW-Doubts and comparisons vs other games (3/27/2010 9:53:02 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Erik Rutins Please discuss Aurora on the general discussion forum guys, thanks. That's a bit harsh, this is a comparison thread, so logically the game is compared... And you shouldn't be afraid of Aurora's competition, just have a look at a screen ... [:D]

Erik Rutins -> RE: DW-Doubts and comparisons vs other games (3/27/2010 10:02:32 PM)
I was not trying to be harsh, just moving through posts quickly and was making a point. I'm not asking you to not discuss it, but discussion of other games should go in general discussion. If you want to compare DW against other games, that's fine, but if the discussion turns into a discussion of another game it should go to general discussion. As you know, we have no problem with discussing other games generally.

undercovergeek -> RE: DW-Doubts and comparisons vs other games (3/27/2010 11:23:13 PM)
why not Gal Civ 2 and all its mods?

Rosseau -> RE: DW-Doubts and comparisons vs other games (3/28/2010 12:02:50 AM)
As far as Aurora, the price is right. And the designer should be applauded. At my age, time--not money--is the most valuable commodity, and the time spent trying to figure out that spreadsheet could be better invested in a game like DW. I generally hate RTS games, but DW is not like AI Wars, and has much greater depth. I can't imagine any strategy or 4X gamer disliking DW or feeling they were short changed.

Hertston -> RE: DW-Doubts and comparisons vs other games (3/28/2010 12:29:25 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: solops I am worried about it being too much like SINS, my least favorite of the lot. Don't be, the game has far more in common with the likes of Galciv and SotS than it does Sins. I like Sins but it is an RTS game at heart with '4X' elements whereas Distant Worlds is pure 4X that just doesn't happen to be turn-based. The nearest comparison I can think of to how that works are the Paradox games/series like Europa Universalis and Hearts of Iron although, as I've said elsewhere, the continuous time actually feels more natural in DW IMHO.

mllange -> RE: DW-Doubts and comparisons vs other games (3/28/2010 6:15:02 AM)
I don't understand the decision to make all ships in a system visible once you enter a system (as stated in the manual and help). Why not incorporate sensors (active/passive/em/thermal/whatever) so ships could hide out in a system waiting to ambush or spring a trap? Imagine keeping your standoff missle cruisers in the back line, unprotected and having your opponent sneak a small group of fast-moving destroyers around your sensor range and then rapidly closing in for the kill. Of course this highlights another problem with combat as things stand, you can create your long range missle cruisers, but they'll just charge into the thick of battle along with every other ship you have. Kind of defeats the purpose...

lordxorn -> RE: DW-Doubts and comparisons vs other games (3/28/2010 6:18:35 AM)
You can create a snooping remote sensor anywhere including dead space.

mllange -> RE: DW-Doubts and comparisons vs other games (3/28/2010 6:20:05 AM)
quote: Don't be, the game has far more in common with the likes of Galciv and SotS than it does Sins. I like Sins but it is an RTS game at heart with '4X' elements whereas Distant Worlds is pure 4X that just doesn't happen to be turn-based. The nearest comparison I can think of to how that works are the Paradox games/series like Europa Universalis and Hearts of Iron although, as I've said elsewhere, the continuous time actually feels more natural in DW IMHO. Unfortunately, just like EU or HoI, combat involves very little in the way of tactics. You create your fleet (like your EU or HoI armies) - send them into a system and see what happens, just as when your armies entered a province. Perhaps this will be improved over time.

mllange -> RE: DW-Doubts and comparisons vs other games (3/28/2010 6:21:44 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: lordxorn You can create a snooping remote sensor anywhere including dead space. Yes, but that doesn't change the fact that once your ship enters a system, it can see everything in that system, even if it has the lowest tech sensors available in the galaxy. You should be able to hide a fleet behind planets, moons, etc, unless your opponent has very sophisticated and advanced sensors or remote sensors scattered around the system.

Webbco -> RE: DW-Doubts and comparisons vs other games (3/28/2010 2:04:13 PM)
It might be quite nice not to be able to see the ENTIRE galaxy map from the start but to discover systems and therefore potential colonies as your sensors improve in their tech and your empire expands.

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