General Ship/Base Design Brainstorming (Full Version)

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csebal -> General Ship/Base Design Brainstorming (4/9/2010 11:15:52 AM)

I figured we could start a thread like this to create a common place for all those design related discussions. This thread is intended to be a place for design related tips and tricks, based on what we find to be working.

- Bases built at colonies require little to no fuel/cargo storage. They seem to share the cargo of the colony they belong to, which - to my knowledge - is infinite in capacity. Might be wrong tho, but my planetary bases with only 1 fuel cell and 1 cargo bay rarely had any problems. (unverified)

- Bases in systems with a star can do with only one reactor, as they draw energy through energy collectors. I might be wrong, but i definitely seem to have seen bases recharge their energy from collectors at black holes and supernova stars as well. (unverified)


I will add anything you guys find. If its reported/confirmed by two or more, then we can pretty much assume it is indeed how it works. (at least for now) :P



csebal -> RE: General Ship/Base Design Brainstorming (4/9/2010 11:16:41 AM)

Also a few of my personal strategies:

I tend to start the game by redesigning pretty much everything.
- Mining bases get increased shields (600ish) and a firepower of at least 40, with a few extra energy collectors to compensate. This ensures they can deal with any single pirate ship on their own.
- Space ports are redesigned completely.
a) I remove all labs. I tend to use specialized research stations with about 3x the research capacity of a large space port, that is still faster to build and cheaper to maintain.
b) I make small space ports REAL small. Basically just a skeleton station (about 30 modules) that even a new colony can build fairly quickly. I reduce medium and large space ports in size somewhat, so that each is about 2x, 1.5x the size of the one below it, and add an extra large space port design, that is about the size of what you start with as large spaceport.
- I create huge specialized research stations that have 8-12 labs for all fields. Since research is based on population anyway, i find it better to have a few high capacity stations that are easier to maintain and upgrade, than many small ones.



Cindar -> RE: General Ship/Base Design Brainstorming (4/9/2010 10:55:25 PM)

Two little tricks (AKA huge exploits that let you overpower anything):

You can retrofit ships up to any size limit. Build a size 200 capital ship in the first day, then make a 10k ship plan and you can retrofit to that size at a star base.

You can retrofit to tech you haven't unlocked if you capture a ship that has the tech. Yes, this means you can create a fleet of world destroyers.



D.W.O.H -> RE: General Ship/Base Design Brainstorming (4/10/2010 12:11:13 AM)

so if I repaired that thing and it now floats in my home world system exactly how can I make a fleet?



Cindar -> RE: General Ship/Base Design Brainstorming (4/10/2010 12:14:09 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: D.W.O.H

so if I repaired that thing and it now floats in my home world system exactly how can I make a fleet?


Its a capital ship, so it should appear as a refit option for any capital ship in your fleet.



Fishman -> RE: General Ship/Base Design Brainstorming (4/11/2010 9:50:50 PM)

quote:

You can retrofit ships up to any size limit. Build a size 200 capital ship in the first day, then make a 10k ship plan and you can retrofit to that size at a star base.
And here I was trying to make a Death Star the legitimate way, out of a resupply ship, built at a planet. :P

Although, really, the only difference between a 750-point ship and a 1500 point ship is that the 1500-point ship costs twice as much, while offering little or no appreciable difference in destructive firepower because you can still only destroy one thing at a time.

Also, protip: Never make a super-frigate or escort. Always keep your frigates and escorts small and crappy, because pirates apparently will imitate your designs, being that they never actually have to pay for them. Destroyers may be similarly affected, but pirate destroyers are not very common.



Ellestar -> RE: General Ship/Base Design Brainstorming (4/28/2010 12:22:33 PM)


quote:


Also, protip: Never make a super-frigate or escort. Always keep your frigates and escorts small and crappy, because pirates apparently will imitate your designs, being that they never actually have to pay for them. Destroyers may be similarly affected, but pirate destroyers are not very common.

It's not always useful. After all, you can destroy pirate bases near you so pirates will be a problem only for AI empires. Also, i deleted my frigate and escort designs. Does it mean that pirates make only destroyers? I hope so, then pirate destroyers will be able to kill AI escorts/frigates :)



Fishman -> RE: General Ship/Base Design Brainstorming (4/28/2010 2:38:05 PM)

Pirates typically have escorts and frigates. Destroyers are occasionally seen, but not common. Cruisers are theoretically affected, but I have never seen a naturally-occurring pirate cruiser. Any ship of these roles that is made, is available for use by pirates. Pirates have no research requirements and do not pay to construct ships, that means your advanced, high-tech, very expensive ships can wind up mysteriously in the hands of some random two-bit pirate, which effectively makes him invincible, if your designs are any good. I discovered this when an AI spawned in one of my unkillable escorts, which is why I no longer make them. Having a pirate in an unkillable ship is unpleasant. It could shoot up anything that the AI had, outrun anything that it couldn't shoot up, and had enough shields to survive any ambush long enough to execute the previous. It was unkillable.



Cindar -> RE: General Ship/Base Design Brainstorming (4/29/2010 9:22:29 PM)

You can take whatever design the pirate has and ambush him with 3 of them to his 1, using a hyperdrive inhibitor to keep him from running. Nothing is unkillable.

As for the problem with the AI being unable to cope, thats more of a problem with the ship designing and AI not going well together then a problem with the pirates. They are just as helpless against your ships. Though it does get kind of odd at times when I find the odd pirate with a death star laser, but then thats just funny [:D]



the1sean -> RE: General Ship/Base Design Brainstorming (5/11/2010 11:08:19 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Cindar
Two little tricks (AKA huge exploits that let you overpower anything):

You can retrofit ships up to any size limit. Build a size 200 capital ship in the first day, then make a 10k ship plan and you can retrofit to that size at a star base.

You can retrofit to tech you haven't unlocked if you capture a ship that has the tech. Yes, this means you can create a fleet of world destroyers.


I dont think that exploit works anymore under the new patch, lol.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Fishman
And here I was trying to make a Death Star the legitimate way, out of a resupply ship, built at a planet. :P

Although, really, the only difference between a 750-point ship and a 1500 point ship is that the 1500-point ship costs twice as much, while offering little or no appreciable difference in destructive firepower because you can still only destroy one thing at a time.


Hmmm, a huge supply moon, oops i mean ship, of doom would be really cool. Plus I wouldnt have to pay to fill the beast up on gas, lol.

On that note, can you put one of those gas vacuums on a destroyer and fill up anywhere??? Will the AI use it if I install one on all my scout ships and large civilian ships? Good thing Caslon and Hydrogen dont need to be refined like crude oil ;)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Fishman
Also, protip: Never make a super-frigate or escort. Always keep your frigates and escorts small and crappy, because ... your advanced, high-tech, very expensive ships can wind up mysteriously in the hands of some random two-bit pirate, which effectively makes him invincible, if your designs are any good... Having a pirate in an unkillable ship is unpleasant. It could shoot up anything that the AI had, outrun anything that it couldn't shoot up, and had enough shields to survive any ambush long enough to execute the previous. It was unkillable.


I assumed that you meant it was unkillable by the AI. LOL, and then the pirates probably worked their way towards destroying galactic civilization :P



Astax -> RE: General Ship/Base Design Brainstorming (5/17/2010 2:43:18 PM)

Very good topic. Can you edit the OP to add following information:
What options to set in order to not have the AI mess with designs.
What general automation options you recommand as having on/off as it pertains to ships/bases?
How often do you retrofit and upgrade your designs?




Locarnus -> RE: General Ship/Base Design Brainstorming (6/1/2010 10:08:47 PM)

Salve,

I now use a modified version of csebal s spaceport strategy

compact spaceport for new colonies:
4 or 5 docking bays, moral comps,  firepower/shields to repell a pirate destroyer based on my destroyer designs
(i use a similar setup for escorts till destroyers, just different roles in my military)

compact defensive spaceport:
like compact, but typically a second reactor witch corresponding weapons and shields, also a long range scanner
used in outer regions with more threats and one per star cluster as fortress/surveillance, also for ultra rare resource systems

then accoringly for the small port with 7 or 8 bays
and a medium witch 10 to 12, but here only the defensive version cause they are typically very important trade nodes



Fishman -> RE: General Ship/Base Design Brainstorming (6/9/2010 2:51:12 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: the1sean
I assumed that you meant it was unkillable by the AI. LOL, and then the pirates probably worked their way towards destroying galactic civilization :P
'fraid not. It was unkillable by me, too. It had the most elegant design of being much faster than anything that could actually do enough damage to hurt it, and much more powerful than anything that could actually catch it. It had the perfect blend of speed, defenses, and firepower that enabled it to win any fight it couldn't escape from and escape from any fight it couldn't win. I designed it this way because I intended to turn those ships over to automation, and I didn't want them getting killed behind my back...turns out they couldn't be killed at all.



jalapen0 -> RE: General Ship/Base Design Brainstorming (6/23/2010 9:18:10 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Fishman

I didn't want them getting killed behind my back...turns out they couldn't be killed at all.


I'd really be interested in seeing this design.



torrenal -> RE: General Ship/Base Design Brainstorming (7/17/2010 2:55:58 AM)

Something the design may include is one of the faster-start hyper generaters. Just because its newer and more powerful, it's not always better, and hyper generaters are a good example. Some of them have an average start time of 7 seconds. Some have more than double that for the start time. Although when you consider I just need to take out the bases (I think..), I can find and hunt those, and would LOVE to see 300+ firepower ships raiding my opposing fleet free of charge to me, I'm leaning towards improving the escort and frigate designs...
//Torrenal



torrenal -> RE: General Ship/Base Design Brainstorming (7/17/2010 8:59:01 PM)

One particular ship I ran into on my first game that the AI used literally, by itself, tore my fleet apart...[X(] Bummer of all things, I lost outright a good ten ships to his one, and his one GOT AWAY! It was a Capital ship, with (I can assume) gobs of shields+armor, and a stack of area effect weapons. Picture a dozen or so surge-waves doing to a fleet what a dozen or so lasers can one ship....

My own experimenting with them revealed that surge-waves hurt all ships regardless of affiliation, so a fleet of these 'fleet killers' is out (and good way to make the neighbors happy is to chase an enemy ship into their ports using one of these fleet-killers... Heck, a good way to make any neighbor happy is to have one of these near a port with *any* battle occurring... surgewave = collateral damage, and merchants don't like anything with damage in the name). Still, if you have concentrated targets to *splat* using one ship, this is one way to do it. And by sending just one such ship in alone against a fleet, everyone you *want* to kill will flock to it (moth+flame, and all that).
//Torrenal



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