retrofitting does not unload troops

retrofitting does not unload troops (Full Version)

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Rustyallan -> retrofitting does not unload troops (5/6/2010 7:34:57 PM)
I retrofit my destroyers and cruisers after removing the troop bay to depend on troop ships for such movement. When I went back looking to see where all my troops were, I saw some were still listed on the ships in the Troops screen. The ships themselves show no troops aboard since they have no troop compartments. I then retrofit one of the ships to a design with a troop compartment to see if I could "recover" the lost troop, but the ship itself is not showing any troops aboard. My best guess is that the troops were left to their own devices during the retrofit and got stuck in the hull somewhere, or maybe the pipes... I'm re-designating all vessels affected in this manner with the PD prefix. It's a Pretty Dramatic measure, but even after they're properly exorcised, the crews are complaining about voices in the pipes and I need to keep track of this. I'm uploading two saves, one before and one after I refit destroyer Tokyo 001. Troop screen shows it has troops, but that shows nowhere else, and I'm paying their wages to SOMEONE. What should happen is that Troops should be unloaded during a retrofit if the new design does not contain troop compartments.

taltamir -> RE: retrofitting does not unload troops (5/7/2010 12:04:49 AM)
I noticed that if you retire a ship it will first dump all its troops on the planet it is being retired on, but indeed if you retrofit it does not... this can cause several issues. One is what you described with the lost troops. Others include broken retrofits (I have had retrofits that stalled permanently, retrofitting for hours of gameplay, while there were clearly enough materials); usually a retrofit doesn't permanently stall due to a bug, but temporarily stall due to lack of materials, this could still be PITA if your troops are tied up in said ship. Also the ship is vulnerable to attacking forces, and the troops would not help against an invader. It would be great if any ship being retrofitted first dropped off any troops it has on the planet to whom the port belongs...and second, automatically loaded up on troops from that very same planet when the retrofit finishes. (since regular military ships also often have a few troop pods, it shouldn't be limited to "troop ship" designs but any ship with troops / troop pods)

sbach2o -> RE: retrofitting does not unload troops (5/7/2010 7:53:36 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Rustyallan IWhat should happen is that Troops should be unloaded during a retrofit if the new design does not contain troop compartments. Make that 'unloaded or disbanded'. Not all sites that can retrofit have a planet beneath them.

taltamir -> RE: retrofitting does not unload troops (5/7/2010 9:24:13 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: sbach2o quote: ORIGINAL: Rustyallan IWhat should happen is that Troops should be unloaded during a retrofit if the new design does not contain troop compartments. Make that 'unloaded or disbanded'. Not all sites that can retrofit have a planet beneath them. 1. disbanding is a waste. 2. don't retrofit troopships in a site that doesn't have a planet. 3. the only non planet site that can retrofit a ship is one of those very rare "found" ancient star-ports, and those will take forever to retrofit since they don't have a steady supply of resources. so another reason not to go there. 4. The alternative, is if for some reason you the player put construction stuff on non starport bases, or built starports in the middle of nubulae and stuff using constructors.

sbach2o -> RE: retrofitting does not unload troops (5/7/2010 10:42:00 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: taltamir 1. disbanding is a waste. 2. don't retrofit troopships in a site that doesn't have a planet. 3. the only non planet site that can retrofit a ship is one of those very rare "found" ancient star-ports, and those will take forever to retrofit since they don't have a steady supply of resources. so another reason not to go there. 4. The alternative, is if for some reason you the player put construction stuff on non starport bases, or built starports in the middle of nubulae and stuff using constructors. Somtimes I just don't want to micromanage where a ship retrofits (or retires). I give the command, off it goes to the usually nearest space yards, which may just happen to be such a suppy outpost. Of course, I can monitor the site that the ships finally selects for the retrofit and change orders when I don't like that. I actually do that, but not everyone may want to do it. All that I wanted to make clear with my short remark is, that code to deal with troops on retrofitting/retireing troop carriers should also be ready to deal with the fact that the troops cannot be unloaded. Of course, it would be even better, if selection of the ship yard for a retrofit would take that into account. Right now it doesn't. Finally, there may be situations where someone would really want to waste the troops, like e.g. retrofitting one of those destroyers far away from the nearest ship yard over a planet but with another, better suited base nearby (those forward suppy outposts won't apply, guess why - it is usually outright terrible to send ships there to retrofit, and not only because of the diminishing stocks of resources, these can last quite a while).

taltamir -> RE: retrofitting does not unload troops (5/7/2010 10:50:30 AM)
quote: Somtimes I just don't want to micromanage where a ship retrofits (or retires). I give the command, off it goes to the usually nearest space yards, which may just happen to be such a suppy outpost. Of course, I can monitor the site that the ships finally selects for the retrofit and change orders when I don't like that. I actually do that, but not everyone may want to do it. I am saying that you shouldn't have to micromanage... That ordering a ship to retrofit should ignore such outposts... Ships should choose the nearest starport around a planet to retrofit in, if there are no starports available around planets, only then should they retrofit in a found supply post. quote: All that I wanted to make clear with my short remark is, that code to deal with troops on retrofitting/retireing troop carriers should also be ready to deal with the fact that the troops cannot be unloaded. Then say that, not that they should be disbanded... quote: Finally, there may be situations where someone would really want to waste the troops In which case he can disband the troops, there is no need for an auto-disbanding of troops during a retrofit, and it will cause nothing by grief.

sbach2o -> RE: retrofitting does not unload troops (5/7/2010 11:17:36 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: taltamir quote: All that I wanted to make clear with my short remark is, that code to deal with troops on retrofitting/retireing troop carriers should also be ready to deal with the fact that the troops cannot be unloaded. Then say that, not that they should be disbanded... I usually try to net get anal about these things, but I said: quote: ORIGINAL: sbach2o 'unloaded or disbanded' Do I need to explain everything to the last detail? Like 'unload and failing to have an opportunity unload'? Next time I post I'm going to consult an attorney.

taltamir -> RE: retrofitting does not unload troops (5/7/2010 11:34:29 AM)
alright then... I still don't like it. if you can't unload AND will not have enough capacity after retrofit is finished, then it should travel to the nearest colony, drop off the troops there, then go to where you specified and retrofit there (which should only occur if you have a construction base not on a planet, and not a single planet with a construction base)

Rustyallan -> RE: retrofitting does not unload troops (5/7/2010 4:03:47 PM)
As a side-tangent, ships should retrofit at the nearest spaceport with the fastest yard... similar to how colony ships are now built at the faster planets instead of the nearest and I believe new ships are built at the faster yards already. I'm not 100% certain, but I think retrofits do this already. I agree with taltamir. Troops should never be automatically disbanded due to not being able to unload them during a retrofit. They take time to train and build up and can be needed in a hurry. Retrofits should only occur at planets. Other stations should repair, but not retrofit.

taltamir -> RE: retrofitting does not unload troops (5/7/2010 4:56:31 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Rustyallan As a side-tangent, ships should retrofit at the nearest spaceport with the fastest yard... similar to how colony ships are now built at the faster planets instead of the nearest and I believe new ships are built at the faster yards already. I'm not 100% certain, but I think retrofits do this already. I agree with taltamir. Troops should never be automatically disbanded due to not being able to unload them during a retrofit. They take time to train and build up and can be needed in a hurry. Retrofits should only occur at planets. Other stations should repair, but not retrofit. Well, I was thinking, what if you managed to lose every single spaceport in the planet EXCEPT for a station found in deep space without a planet. In that rare case they should unload the troops first at a nearby planet then travel to retrofit. Anyways, I agree with the idea of prioritizing faster yards, this is a really good idea. Also take into account current activity... giving a 20 ship fleet an order to retrofit means ALL 20 ships could end up trying to retrofit in one SMALL space port... meaning they can only retrofit 2 at a time. ouch.

Rustyallan -> RE: retrofitting does not unload troops (5/7/2010 5:29:35 PM)
quote: Anyways, I agree with the idea of prioritizing faster yards, this is a really good idea. Also take into account current activity... giving a 20 ship fleet an order to retrofit means ALL 20 ships could end up trying to retrofit in one SMALL space port... meaning they can only retrofit 2 at a time. ouch. I did just that yesterday. I ordered my fleet to retrofit and they all up and headed for my home planet (halfway across the galaxy and 3 full sectors from the battle-line), which was the biggest spaceport and bypassed the one that was in that system. I think the mechanic for going to the fastest/largest port is already in, we just need some confirmation on that.

taltamir -> RE: retrofitting does not unload troops (5/7/2010 5:31:51 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Rustyallan quote: Anyways, I agree with the idea of prioritizing faster yards, this is a really good idea. Also take into account current activity... giving a 20 ship fleet an order to retrofit means ALL 20 ships could end up trying to retrofit in one SMALL space port... meaning they can only retrofit 2 at a time. ouch. I did just that yesterday. I ordered my fleet to retrofit and they all up and headed for my home planet (halfway across the galaxy and 3 full sectors from the battle-line), which was the biggest spaceport and bypassed the one that was in that system. I think the mechanic for going to the fastest/largest port is already in, we just need some confirmation on that. Was the spaceport in that system complete? if its under construction they will ignore it.

Rustyallan -> RE: retrofitting does not unload troops (5/7/2010 5:35:51 PM)
quote: Was the spaceport in that system complete? if its under construction they will ignore it. I'm pretty sure it was complete. Even if it wasn't, there were three other completed SSPs between the front and the home planet. They were all at SY-100 still, so yard speed wasn't a factor.

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