Don't forget the Resort Bases (Full Version)

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Goddsch -> Don't forget the Resort Bases (6/17/2010 10:01:34 AM)

My first few games i never bothered to build Resort Bases, but OMG was i wrong!
This is an Starting empire with around 27 colonies in 20 systems, just 1 resort base covers all my troop expenses!



[image]local://upfiles/35354/9A4C3B5F223E400F87A333A440AEC7F1.jpg[/image]



sbach2o -> RE: Don't forget the Resort Bases (6/17/2010 10:20:17 AM)

A resort base should be the first or second base your starting constructor builds in every game, unless there is a critical shortage in a strategic resource.

More resort bases don't hurt either. I haven't found out yet when diminishing returns set in, probably right away with the second, if they are close together. But if the bases are spread out over your empire (or neighbors, those will come to your bases as well and pay their bills), each should give a net gain. The total achievable revenue may be capped, but there have been times when it came close to the tax income of my empire in my current game.



WoodMan -> RE: Don't forget the Resort Bases (6/17/2010 4:33:23 PM)

Maybe I'm doing something wrong, I just had to scrap my resort base because it was making 0 income and costing me a fair bit in upkeep.  It was built on a Gold Nugget Asteroid which had +35% scenery and was the closest of all scenice locations I've found to my home planet.  No Passenger ship ever went there [&:]



Tophat1815 -> RE: Don't forget the Resort Bases (6/17/2010 4:42:40 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: WoodMan

Maybe I'm doing something wrong, I just had to scrap my resort base because it was making 0 income and costing me a fair bit in upkeep.  It was built on a Gold Nugget Asteroid which had +35% scenery and was the closest of all scenice locations I've found to my home planet.  No Passenger ship ever went there [&:]




How many colonies did you have? Pirate activity? How many passenger ships do you have? That is odd?



WoodMan -> RE: Don't forget the Resort Bases (6/17/2010 6:30:32 PM)

I've got 8 colonies and the base was about two or three stars out from my nearest colony, which was my homeworld.  I have two Empires in very close proximity to me too which I'm not at war with.  One is cautious and one is pleased with me.  Their nearest worlds were low population but were about the same distance from the resort as my homeworld.  They are at war with each other though, so maybe that affects it, I don't know.

I'm playing with the new beta patch and I have noticed this strange problem with my resort base, it was definately built on the correct Asteroid because the base actually had Gold Nugget in the name.  But also I am not seeing any freighters from other Empires coming to my planets.  I have those two Empires very close and I have located 4 or 5 more which are further away, two of which I have Free Trade Agreements with.  Passenger ships are going between the Empires like crazy, but no frieghters are going at all into my Empire and no tourists either.  Freighters are going "from" my Empire but not coming to it from others [&:]

Oh and the only Pirate faction I've come into contact with has been destroyed some time ago.

If you like I can rebuild the tourist base and upload my save game so you can see if I'm missing something [:(]



sbach2o -> RE: Don't forget the Resort Bases (6/18/2010 9:32:09 AM)

I think (and it has been mentioned on this forum by the developer) that proximity of a resort base to its customers is playing an important role. But I have no idea how close it must be to be effective.

I am almost certain that a resort base will attract tourists from any empire, not only your own. And you should reap the profit.

Sometimes it may take a little while until a resort base gets used. First, active passenger ships will have to finish their current jobs. Maybe you got unlucky and all your ships (and your neighbor's) were busy, no new construction is being readied, and you simply didn't give it enough time? But then I wouldn't know how long it can take.

Tip: open the ship list and filter for passenger ships. Then check the reported orders for these ships. They will be either 'transport migrants' or 'transport tourists'. The latter is an indicator that at least some resort base (hopefully yours) will receive customers soon. You will start see this order coming up before the resort income starts coming in.

When designing resort bases I like to have two versions, one with additional mining equipment and storage space to build over asteroids and the like, and another without such baggage for neutron stars and black holes. The miner version lets me check afterwards that I really have hit the correct asteroid by looking into its cargo hold (but it should be easy enough to build at the correct spot). I have verified that the miner resort bases will later actually be used as a source of the respective recource they are mining.

A remark that should be unrelated to your problems: In earlier versions of the game I had the impression that old resort bases didn't get used any more after some time, but that took a while. In my current 1.0.4.9 game there seem to be no such problems. But here I was bringing new resort bases up every now or then. After 15 game years I had probably more than a dozen of these with some two hundred or so colonies. I find it irritating that the reported number of passengers on a resort base doesn't change any more after a while (as far as I have checked, I only took tabs on a couple of my earliest installations). That seems to indicate that there isn't any traffic at all. But as long as those staying keep paying their bills...




UnderLord -> RE: Don't forget the Resort Bases (6/18/2010 5:14:41 PM)

I also read in the help files that building resort bases nearest your most developed planets helps alot too so near your capital pretty much. Late game it can probably be near any place.



dwaine -> RE: Don't forget the Resort Bases (7/8/2010 7:49:18 PM)

I highly agree, but that was hard to find out how these damn stations worked [:@] :

first game, not bad, but not what i wanted !
[image]http://img62.imageshack.us/img62/7265/60441884.jpg[/image]

second game, JACKPOT [X(] !!!
[image]http://img227.imageshack.us/img227/7896/66880972.jpg[/image]
Just take a look at the number of ships, 8 docked and 40 in waiting !!!!!!!
[image]http://img41.imageshack.us/img41/2141/51088726.jpg[/image]
[image]http://img705.imageshack.us/img705/4571/55192416.jpg[/image]
and i'm rich, i'm RICH !!!! AHHAHAHAH ( i'm supposed to have a +323'000 credits but there is a strange bug [&:] )
[image]http://img408.imageshack.us/img408/8023/55091052.jpg[/image]

The reasons of these 2 success ???
Well, i tought that it will be something huge like a view on a black hole, but no, this is :
[image]http://img208.imageshack.us/img208/2062/18936703.jpg[/image]
Yes !!! neutron star !!!! thx neutron star [&o]

+whole picture to see everything ( including a second resort base )
[image]http://img215.imageshack.us/img215/8913/33003792.jpg[/image]

the most surprising thing is that i've the most powerful fleet of the galaxy ( the double of the stronger opponent ) and this fleet is entirely paid by my other civilizations, that's something unfair simply because the AI never build one ... ( and yeah, i also have 74 colonies, but "only" 88 billions citizens )



thiosk -> RE: Don't forget the Resort Bases (7/10/2010 10:11:13 AM)

That is a truly beautiful thing



VirlomiEntreri -> RE: Don't forget the Resort Bases (7/12/2010 12:36:22 AM)

[image]http://img267.imageshack.us/img267/3945/welordiaresort.jpg[/image]
So, am I doing something wrong with my Resort Base? I've had it in the Neutron Star area for about 20 game years now.



sbach2o -> RE: Don't forget the Resort Bases (7/12/2010 8:55:42 AM)

Dwaine, VirlomiEntreri,

which game version(s) are you playing? I am still with V1.0.4.9, so I am reluctant to file bug reports, but this is definitely something for tech support. Occurences like this have been reported before.

And 40 waiting is nothing. I have seen more than a third of my total compartment of passenger ships (~200 of ~530 at the time) being on the wait at first at one Resort Base, then a little while later (aka a game year or two - working down these queues takes a while) at another.

Similar things happen when it comes to shipping off migrants from planets. There is something seriously wonky going on with the transportation AI when it comes to moving population around. A huge portion of the fleet is acting like a swarm of locusts.

Tip of the day: Increase the number of docking bays. This can be done for Resort Bases but not planets, unfortunately.

Another thing I've observed (in 1.0.4.9) is that the time a passenger ship spends in dock is almost irrespective of the quality of the docking bay installed at the planet or base. With 'Giant Docking Bays' (the highest up the tech tree), loading/unloading/fueling of the ships is almost instantaneous (less than a day, iirc). Then the ships stays in 'undock' phase for several game days - maybe five to ten, it may vary. Since Giant Docking Bays are (according to the component's description) just three times faster than the basic model, the 'undock' pase should dwarf the time spent in cargo transfer in almost all cases, at least for passenger ships.



VirlomiEntreri -> RE: Don't forget the Resort Bases (7/12/2010 3:26:47 PM)

I'm running v1.0.4.9 at the moment. One of the things that bother me is that I've created a Resort Base named 'Custom Resort Inc.' to build. However, it never chooses it over the older model with less docking bays, etc. Anyways, I'm doing okay with my income for now as can be seen in the screenshot, but once I get some military ships rolling out I'm afraid colony income just won't cut it.

Same thing with my Gas and Mining stations, too. I have a custom one of each with more extractors, but the AI auto-builds the older, cheaper version over mine.




dwaine -> RE: Don't forget the Resort Bases (7/12/2010 4:12:48 PM)

hello again [:)],

sbach2o,
this game was on a 1.4.9, i now moved on 1.5.7, and the resort bases work exactly the same, but i've really less income because the ai finally built some resort bases ( i still have regullary ~300k from resort, for a 200 billions inhabitants empire ). Yeah, 40 in waiting is nothing, i have a record at 230 when i first built the resort base, but there is ( was, in fact, not anymore) 40 passenger ships waiting continually !
[image]http://img155.imageshack.us/img155/8015/81486280.jpg[/image]
quote:

Tip of the day: Increase the number of docking bays. This can be done for Resort Bases but not planets, unfortunately.

I'll try it ! I played this game less than 30 hours, i don't touch to the automatic upgrade of ships, but now is the time [:)].
quote:

I am reluctant to file bug reports

booooh bad you [;)], i'm modding medieval II total war, and i know that bug reports are a real pain to do [:)], but feedback is really appreciated !



VirlomiEntreri,
it seems to me that your empire is rather young, and not very populated. Mine was 3x more populated (now 10x) when i took the screen, also, my base was very close from the heart of my empire, but also close to 4 other empires border. If you play on small galaxy, resort bases wil have very less tourists.
this is my empire, you have only 37 ships, this seems really not much, see, here is mine :

[image]http://img571.imageshack.us/img571/6404/10365777.jpg[/image]
and an other early game :
[image]http://img801.imageshack.us/img801/3629/71647358.jpg[/image]

This is my resort base, with all the ships around :

[image]http://img682.imageshack.us/img682/2454/59641820.jpg[/image]

Then is the sector

[image]http://img339.imageshack.us/img339/1958/47960928.jpg[/image]

My empire :

[image]http://img203.imageshack.us/img203/3208/37593529.jpg[/image]

and the galaxy :

[image]http://img571.imageshack.us/img571/2455/32464606.jpg[/image]

I really think that my base is well placed, but look also at the scenery bonus :

[image]http://img193.imageshack.us/img193/6628/62683844.jpg[/image]

This a +49% bonus, that's good but compared to a +80-90% bonus of a blackhole, this isn't this great. I already observed a neutron star with a "only" +32% bonus ...
Strangely, i'v 5 bases, i built the very first one around a black hole with a +71% scenery bonus. Quite some ships came to the stations, then i built the one wich have the more success, immediatly, no more ships came to the first station, there still have the ~200k tourist traped inside (!) whose cannot leave (!!!) and no more ships came ever again ... Very strange

Also the resort income is VERY fluctuating take a look at these screen :
[image]http://img215.imageshack.us/img215/4554/74013649.jpg[/image]
[image]http://img707.imageshack.us/img707/6626/72503508.jpg[/image]
[image]http://img691.imageshack.us/img691/5152/42329449.jpg[/image]
[image]http://img295.imageshack.us/img295/999/62357944.jpg[/image]
[image]http://img571.imageshack.us/img571/4295/68807730.jpg[/image]
look a +5k income [&:][&:][&:][&:][&:]


Let's investigate [;)]

Basically, the income isn't "fix", so here are my 2 two suggestions :
a "logical" income, tourists are on the bases for two months (or more ), pay each month a little credits with some variables ( i mean a tourist pay in fuction of the GDP/habitant and ± 20% and, let us dream a little, in fuction of the genral mood of the empire ; it's well know that peoples spent money in fuction of the economic and social context )
      example :
         - 200 k tourist are aboard my stations, thay pay each month 0.1 k credits to stay in the resort bases, i've an income of 20 k credits each month until they leave [:-].
BUT, i think the income is more something like that ...
      example :
         - 200 k tourists arrive aboard y stations, they pay 0.5 k to enter the stations, and then they pay nothing, so at the end of the month, 100k income from resort, but next month 0 from the tourist already aboard. [8|]

that's my demonstration [8D] :
[image]http://img175.imageshack.us/img175/9971/16619341.jpg[/image]
Stupid thing no ? Tourist come, pay for entry, and after all is free, and they NEVER leave stations [8|]
I hope that have been useful for someone, and i also hope that i'm right in my deductions.


I now think that resort bases are overpowered, i roughly have the same populations & income that the other empires, but with all the money i've from resort bases, I raise as a super power :
[image]http://img820.imageshack.us/img820/9928/66657237.jpg[/image]
( i observe that a "c" is missing to republics ! damn me ! [X(] )

+ + and sorry for the bad english, i wrote the post "as is" it may be not enough clear for everyone ... [:(]



caerr -> RE: Don't forget the Resort Bases (7/12/2010 5:40:25 PM)

Nice post dwaine, been wondering about resort bases lately. Wow, tourists never leave? What a bunch of freeloaders. :P



sbach2o -> RE: Don't forget the Resort Bases (7/15/2010 8:05:06 AM)

dwaine,

quote:

Also the resort income is VERY fluctuating [...]


regarding the 'fluctuating' resort income: What the game displays as resort income is just the accumulated revenue for the current year. That will grow and grow until it resets to zero at the beginning of month 1 (or lets call it January).

quote:

Stupid thing no ? Tourist come, pay for entry, and after all is free, and they NEVER leave stations [...]


On the bright side, the capacity of a resort base isn't limited by the amount of room in the installed passenger compartments. Maybe we should look at it this way: the 'Onboard' is just mislabeled and doesn't show the number of people on board but the number of people having been served by the installation over its lifetime.



sbach2o -> RE: Don't forget the Resort Bases (7/16/2010 8:30:50 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: WoodMan

Maybe I'm doing something wrong, I just had to scrap my resort base because it was making 0 income and costing me a fair bit in upkeep.  It was built on a Gold Nugget Asteroid which had +35% scenery and was the closest of all scenice locations I've found to my home planet.  No Passenger ship ever went there [&:]


I think I've found out more about this issue.

It seems the game for some odd (certainly bugged) reason mostly focuses on one resort base after the other. While a majority of passenger ships transporting tourists will flock to just a single resort base (creating a traffic jam once the number of passenger ships goes into the hundreds and beyond) few if any other bases will be served at all. It really looks like the swarm of locusts I mentioned above.

The more resort bases exist in the game - and this means all of them, not only those in your empire - the longer the stretches of time will become over which any given base stays idle before its turn comes. So WoodMan, you probably weren't patient enough with your one resort base. Also, it probably helps to have many bases, even if most are idle most of the time, for the simple reason that the probability will become higher that at any given time the base on which the AI is ganging up is one of yours and not a rival empire's.

The transportation AI is really broken regarding the tourist business. And I have no idea how to work around it. Increasing the number of docking bays per base is only a temporary solution as populations and economies grow. It is almost laughable, but the number of docking bays per resort base (and not the number of resort bases or, as it should be: the lower of demand and total capacity) may determine the throughput the tourist business can generate. It should be on the order of 150K to 200K per year per average number of docking bays per base, and can only get higher when the locust swarm of passenger ships switches targets often.




the1sean -> RE: Don't forget the Resort Bases (7/16/2010 5:44:19 PM)

Wow, I havent even been using resort bases since the AI doesnt autoconstruct them for me. Never knew I was missing out on a possibly very large chunk of change!



bigbaba -> RE: Don't forget the Resort Bases (7/17/2010 10:17:29 PM)

amazing game and empire, dwaine.

i have the same problem like it was told here (zero cash from resort bases although they are in good position) but my empire is much younger then yours and i prefer to play in smal 100 system galaxies (because of bad system preformance in huge galaxies) so maybe the galaxy (and my empire) is simply too smal to earn money with this "wunderwaffe".[:D]



Gertjan -> RE: Don't forget the Resort Bases (8/4/2010 6:22:16 PM)

Very cool![:D]



James009 -> RE: Don't forget the Resort Bases (1/8/2011 8:28:05 AM)

Quick question, can they be built and, more importantly, operated anywhere? Or do they REQUIRE a scenic bonus to actually be operated?

Good info on this thread.

EDIT:
From what I can tell Resort Bases do not HAVE to be located by scenic locations to function. I've got 200K Humans and some aliens on a mid-way point between my major colonies... no scenic value there.

Also, can Resorts help trade routes for refueling and resupply?



sbach2o -> RE: Don't forget the Resort Bases (1/10/2011 10:51:50 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: James009

Quick question, can they be built and, more importantly, operated anywhere? Or do they REQUIRE a scenic bonus to actually be operated?

EDIT:
From what I can tell Resort Bases do not HAVE to be located by scenic locations to function. I've got 200K Humans and some aliens on a mid-way point between my major colonies... no scenic value there.



Well, you answered this for yourself. Although it is still recommended to build them over scenic locations. I think that, once a number of resort bases is available, tourists will prefer those with good scenic bonus.

I am not sure how income from a resort base is handled now. Although dwaine tried to get a gauge on how much money a base earns per tourist, the results were inconclusive (I think) regarding whether the scenic bonus factors into the revenue or not. For now I'd assume it does until proven otherwise.

quote:

ORIGINAL: James009

Also, can Resorts help trade routes for refueling and resupply?


I do not think resort bases do this in themselves, BUT:

* You can equip a resort base with gas mining equipment and install it over a gas giant with scenic bonus. It will be fully functional as a mining station for all I can tell, meaning your ships can come to refuel and freighters will haul off resources to space ports. Same goes for asteroids and planets with scenic bonus.
* my guess is the same applies with Research Labs regarding sites which also have a research bonus. Here I cannot tell whether the research bonus applies like it would when a dedicated research base is installed, though. I have always had such dedicated research bases around planets with better bonus and only the best bonus seems to apply.

As a consequence I currently have four different Resort Base designs:
* Standard without extras
* Gas miner
* Standard Miner
* Researcher (has two of each lab component).

All are classified as Resort Base.

I am considering to add another one with Space Yards and manufacturing components for populated colonies. But I'll first try to install Standard Resort Bases besides a space port. Before the expansion I found such Resort Bases not to be used much if at all, but the last version of DW I played had still some severe imbalances in how tourism was routed to resort bases in general, see my 'locust swarm' posts above. This problem has been solved, I am confident.

Another tip: you can install your resort base far away from your empire besides highly populated rival empires's worlds. Those foreigners will come to your base paying into your coffers ;)



Data -> RE: Don't forget the Resort Bases (1/10/2011 12:38:42 PM)

we can find the most visited resorts of the other empires, destroy them (or not) and build our own. In case we don't destroy them maybe our own will not be visited but if we do destroy them we need to be able to defend our own.
Just realized that I've not seen tourism influenced by war, ie if an empire is at war with me it's citizens will continue to visit my resorts. Also, shouldn't one empire be reluctant in attacking a resort with it's own citizens or the citizens of other empires in it?



szabferi -> RE: Don't forget the Resort Bases (8/28/2012 11:49:02 AM)

Hope I wont be bashed for necroing the post (but I found it very useful as so far I completely missed the resort bases).

A question on this topic:
Is there any comfortable way to search for locations with scenic bonus? I play a small galaxy, basically everything is explored already, but do I have to click all the gas clouds and systems to find out which one would be an ideal resort base location?



Harrs -> RE: Don't forget the Resort Bases (8/28/2012 12:25:35 PM)

There is an icon over the galaxy map.. Scenic location..

then you see every system with scenic locations..
Sometimes it is a planet too..

Once I had a very good quality swamp planet with rings..
This resort base had good income.. because I could build wonders on this planet too..



Theluin -> RE: Don't forget the Resort Bases (8/28/2012 1:16:05 PM)

There is also a tab on the left side menu showing potential resort locations [:)]



Panpiper -> RE: Don't forget the Resort Bases (8/28/2012 4:41:52 PM)

I clearly need to read this thread, as I've never earned a single dime off of resort bases, ever. And that is not for lack of having allowed them to be built (a couple of times on purpose, the rest by constructors accidentally left on auto.



WoodMan -> RE: Don't forget the Resort Bases (8/28/2012 5:08:20 PM)

Hey Panpiper, from experimenting recently I *think* highly developed worlds make tourists, so build them near highly developed worlds of either your empire or any other empire. Note, there is a difference between population and development.

My resort base was right near my homeworld and was making no money at all. But once I got luxury resources rolling in and the development raised I started getting plenty of cash from it!



ghend -> RE: Don't forget the Resort Bases (8/28/2012 8:30:21 PM)

Where does the money from resorts come from? I don't see a resort base expense from the private sector expenses tab. Logically if you're getting 200k from private citizens from resorts the private sector should be 200k poorer.



szabferi -> RE: Don't forget the Resort Bases (8/28/2012 9:41:12 PM)

Same thing for me. Came home, I immediately built a resort base over my homeworld and one more at a 35% scenery bonus system within the empire.

I let the game run on 4x speed for 20 or so minutes, but not a sinlle tourist visited the bases, so I earned a total revenue of 0k.

What can be wrong....

edit: I've found out.... watched my passenger ships which were transporting tourists I found out, the other empire had a resort base at a 70% scenery black hole (neutral area). Even if it was 3 sectors away from my empire, my tourists went there. So I blasted away that RB, built mine, and tally-ho! Everyone now came to my RB and the milking started.



ASHBERY76 -> RE: Don't forget the Resort Bases (8/28/2012 9:45:58 PM)

[image]http://img208.imageshack.us/img208/2062/18936703.jpg[/image]

That is no neutron star.It is god.



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