RE: One Weird Battle

RE: One Weird Battle (Full Version)

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FOW -> RE: One Weird Battle (1/21/2011 1:20:39 PM)
In your last screenshot that US stack in the 'probing advance' east of Raipur appears to be moving SW over the river onto trails, rather than SE down the rail ???? You don't want your LCUs getting bogged down in the country whilst its Jap LCU hunting season [;)]

Canoerebel -> RE: One Weird Battle (1/21/2011 1:25:09 PM)
That is just a scouting unit - a small infantry unit. All the Allied "power" in that sector is at Nagpur, where the units are set to "strategic" mode. I was waiting for my parachutes to capture a forward base on the railroad. Then I would send my army forward. Now that the Allies have bottled up a big part of the IJ Army near Poona, I'm sending all those "strat mode" units to Poona, where they can aid the efforts to destroy the six IJ divisions that have been caught.

paullus99 -> RE: One Weird Battle (1/21/2011 2:09:44 PM)
Knowing the overall issues regarding Q at the moment (discouragd & distracted), I think you've got a couple of options - either one could put a stake in this game and finish it, or rev it back up again. You've played very conservatively up to this point - and been rewarded for it. You've definitely got the advantage of momentum - so why not go ahead with your other operations - Wake, Marcus & Noumea (though I know the last one would be tricky)? India is a sideshow now & obviously sucking the life out of your opponent (not to mention the fun) - give him some more targets & I think his interest will peak again. Just some advice from an old gamer who perfers action (even if it results in some losses) to no action at all.

Canoerebel -> RE: One Weird Battle (1/21/2011 2:27:02 PM)
Good points, paullus. As soon as the Allied carriers arrive in SoPac, the Allies will implement their "grand plan." The carriers are meant to draw the KB to SoPac to defend New Caledonia. That would clear CenPac for the invasions of Marcus and Wake. If, on the other hand, Brad doesn't commit the KB to New Caledonia, the Allies will invade the island using the carriers to provide CAP. The Allied carriers are three days from entering the map from the Canal Zone. From there they go to Tahiti and then to Auckland. So it may be about ten to twelve days before they reach theater so that I can implement the plan. The Allies are also scrambling to get things ready for an earlier move on Sumatra in case favorable conditions arrive. I need to get two more divisions to the staging points - one at San Diego can be bought in about eight days. The ships are ready to take it to Oz. The second is 27th Div., currently heavily involved in India but already prepping for Padang. As soon as the Allies have taken care of the six or seven isolated IJA divisions in India, 27th reports to Bombay and will be transported to Cape Town - one of the Sumatra staging points. In the right circumstances, the Allies could be ready to invade Sumatra in as early as two months.

crsutton -> RE: One Weird Battle (1/21/2011 4:27:14 PM)
I don't know how much freedom the Japanese player has but with the implemention of the ability to rebuild any destroyed unit (in the last patch) and the extra resources availble in scen #2, can Brad rebuild all lost divisions, or just some of them. He should be able to rebuild at least some of them. The question is how many and how fast. When you consider that and the fact that his air and ship losses have been light, he should be in pretty good shape once he is able to tidy up in India. How about you Canoe? What with the pitiful replacment rate of the British units and Commonwealth devices, how hard have you been hit in losses in India and how long do you think it will take you to rebuild? What destroyed units are you going to rebuild?

Canoerebel -> RE: One Weird Battle (1/21/2011 5:31:50 PM)
10/29/42 Very, very interesting situation in India developing, as Brad made a move that I considered very unlikely. It's going to result in an important battle. If he wins, it complicates my situation. If he loses, he's placed an army in a situation where it might not be able to get out. Poona: Brad's northern stack moved to Poona rather than, as I had expected, down the road to the east towards safety. I had considered this possibilty, thus leaving behind a decent garrison at Poona with alot more on the way, but Brad's troops arrived at an inoportune moment. I had more than 1,000 AV traveling to Poona by rail. They made it Bombay this turn, so they would have made Poona tomorrow. As it is, my garrison at Poona has to hold for at least one day. I have 700 AV anchored by 27th US Division. I'll transport in more troops by air. They'll be facing either two or three IJA divisions (54th and 6th Guards are definately there) that have been on a yellow trail for weeks, getting bombed every day. I think they are in bad shape. I also think Brad's 48th Division, which is on a yellow road south of Bombay, may be making for Poona too. But Brad can't afford to wait for it to arrive. He has to attack tomorrow and his attack has to succeed. In two days, the Allied stack of 3,000 AV one hex east of Poona will return. Envelopment: I'm also sending some units behind the various IJA stacks to come into Poona behind them, thus eliminating all IJ hexside control. That means the Allies may be able to totally destroy this army. South of Poona: The Allied armor (1,000 AV) wasn't strong enough to whip the three mauled IJA divisions south of Poona, though they inflicted much greater damage than they received. The armor has been reinforced by three infantry regimental or brigade units, including 5th Marines, so they will shock attack tomorrow. Furball: This is the closest thing to a dogfight that I've ever seen on land. There are units all over the place. I am pretty optimistic that things will turn out very nicely for the Allies. If the Allies hold Poona through tomorrow, the Japanese are in big trouble. If the Japanese take Poona, it'll take me awhile to organize things and get back on track. Either way, the Japanese shouldn't be able to win the campaign, though I'm a little worried about the first battle. IJ Losses (per crsutton's question): Brad has taken light infantry losses, so he'll be able to rebuilt his mauled divisions, especially since they should have plenty of time to recuperate once Brad extracts them from India. I'm sure he's managed to extract cadres, or will do so before all is said and done. I doubt he'll lose any entire divisions. Allied Losses: The Allies are in good shape. Losses to shipping has been light (except for BBs - I lost a ton of them at Pearl Harbor and Force Z). The only roughed up infantry is in India, and even those units are in good shape. The Indian units are doing well at making up losses (for instance, 20th Div., which was down to 9 AV six weeks ago, is back to 70 AV). Thre three Brit brigades extracted from Ceylon in March are recovering much more slowly, but they'll be available at some point in '43.

Canoerebel -> RE: One Weird Battle (1/21/2011 5:54:23 PM)
Here's a map of the Battle of Poona. [image]local://upfiles/8143/92C03FBCFF244B33A6F98D3C0EB0DABE.jpg[/image]

Bullwinkle58 -> RE: One Weird Battle (1/21/2011 6:33:01 PM)
I like the "I hopes." If this works it may represent the first time the hex-sealing aspects of the engine have operated as expected. (Kidding! Kidding!!) [:)]

vettim89 -> RE: One Weird Battle (1/21/2011 6:58:32 PM)
Wow, furball is right! That looks like something from the eastern front not the PTO.

Canoerebel -> RE: One Weird Battle (1/21/2011 7:08:03 PM)
10/30/42 Poona: Wow, the Japanese didn't attack. I can only guess that Brad is awaiting arrival of the 48th Div., currently on a yellow trial between Bombay and Poona, but close to completing the journey. But Brad missed the opportunity, if there was one (no fault of his - the huge number of units in the area would have made it most difficult to realize he had arrived at Poona during a very brief window when my defenses were fairly weak). The defensive AV at Poona went from 700 to 1250 today, and tomorrow will increase to about 3,500. That's more than enough to handle the Japanese while I try to get units in position to eliminate the only two IJ routes of retreat. In other words, the Japanese army just stuck it's head in a noose. South of Poona: The Allied shock attack managed 1:1 odds and roughly equal casualties, but still didn't manage to break the backs of the defenders. I have to rest for a day or two, during which time the IJA units should make it a hex further south. In all likelihood, I'll send some of the Poona garrison south on that road to lend a hand, hoping to deliver the decisive blow before the Japanese reach Goa and embark on ships or trains. I think I will accomplish this. Points: During all this turmoil, the Allies have retaken a number of bases in NE India, including Benares and Allahabad. The points in the game are now IJA 33,600 to Allies 10,500. The "victory point spread" has increased from 7k to 8k in just a week or so. Allied Carriers: Just arrived on the eastern edge of the map after sailing from the Canal Zone. It's a dadgum long way from there to Tahiti, where they'll refuel. From Tahiti, they'll make for either Suva or Auckland. I'm either going to use them in a forward raid to draw Brad's attention, or to cover the invasion of Noumea (if my picket ships continue to report the seas to the north free of threat from the KB).

Capt. Harlock -> RE: One Weird Battle (1/21/2011 8:34:30 PM)
quote: Poona: Wow, the Japanese didn't attack. I can only guess that Brad is awaiting arrival of the 48th Div., currently on a yellow trial between Bombay and Poona, but close to completing the journey. But Brad missed the opportunity, if there was one (no fault of his - the huge number of units in the area would have made it most difficult to realize he had arrived at Poona during a very brief window when my defenses were fairly weak). Congrats on managing the situation. But poor Q-Ball will likely lose even more interest in the game. At least you can claim that "Sir Robin" time is over.[:D]

Canoerebel -> RE: One Weird Battle (1/21/2011 8:53:36 PM)
I know! I need to beat up on Japan now that I finally have Brad in a tight spot, but I know his morale is pretty low at the moment. What I can't figure out is why Brad hasn't moved in the Pacific. He has some very important objectives out there (especially Midway), and he's had time to orchestrate things that would increase his interest, but he's been totoally, completely quiet in the Pacific since about February 1942. He might be really frustrated at the way I've conducted my defense. After all, he hasn't had the enjoyment and stimulation of a juicy carrier battle to arouse his interest. But as a result of my strategy he's had opportunities to really stick it to the Allies (and did so, but not hard enough in India, and not at all in the Pacific after February). What's he doing cooling his heals for nine months in the most important theater in the war? So, on the one hand, I feel kinda responsible for giving Brad a match that has had long stretches of quiet (boring for him, find for me), but on the other hand he had the means to force the issue.

Chickenboy -> RE: One Weird Battle (1/21/2011 9:18:03 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Canoerebel I know! I need to beat up on Japan now that I finally have Brad in a tight spot, but I know his morale is pretty low at the moment. Well, smooshing his LCUs in India will certainly negate his claim about inactivity! You are in a position that makes me shudder as a JFB. You must CRUSH as many of those divisions as you possibly can. No retreat, no withdrawal, no evacuation of cadres to be reformed later in the war. Kill them. All of them. Don't worry about Brad's response to stiff losses-that's beyond your control anyways. You've got to stay true to the game as it is now. That merits crushing your opponent, regardless of how he'll take it.

Canoerebel -> RE: One Weird Battle (1/21/2011 10:22:24 PM)
10/31/42 South of Poona: As expected, the three-division IJA stack retired another hex. My armor will catch up tomorrow and might attack in two days. The infantry units will reach the hex in two days. and be ready to strike on the third. And I'm committing 27th US Div. and a few other units currently at Poona to the fray. It will take the Poona contingent a good six or seven days to catch up to this moving battle. I am assigning more and more bombers to strike this IJA stack for reasons explained in the following paragraph. Poona: The Allies now have 4000+ AV at Poona. Japan has 54th Div., 6th Guards Div. and what appears to be a tank regiment. These units were badly disrupted by repeated air strike during their long journey south from Jalagon. I think 48th Div. will reach Poona from the west in just a day or two or three. It should be stronger, but the combined IJ army at Poona will be bottled up, depleted by air attacks, and subject to anhiliation once I "seize" the two hexides through which the IJ troops entered the Poona hex. Since I have more units than I need here, I'm sending some south (as detailed above). I'm also assigning more of the heavy bombers to the stack to the south. SigInt: Got word a few days ago that 33rd IJA Div., most recently at Singapore, and before that in Burma, is now on Marus bound for Palembang. I believe this is the first major reinforcement of Sumatra. Also getting lots of SigInt about various support units - engineers, artillery, etc. - aboard marus bound for Singapore. I'm nearly certain this is the evacuation of troops from India. Oh, how I remember the mirrior image back in the Spring of '42 when I had SigInt of lots of units bound for Singapore and was nearly positive they were heading for India. Those were some nerve-wracking days.

witpqs -> RE: One Weird Battle (1/21/2011 10:33:36 PM)
You don't need to finish seizing the hex sides. Units will not retreat into any hex containing enemy combat units. So, once you have a combat unit in the hex opposite the hex side they own, they can not retreat across that hex side. This is true even if the would-be retreat hex has combat units from both sides: if enemy combat units are present, you can't retreat there. I keep saying 'combat' units because I'm not certain if something like an HQ with only support squads would exert the same control.

Canoerebel -> RE: One Weird Battle (1/21/2011 10:47:48 PM)
Wtpqs, thanks, that clarification is a big help. I'll have units in the hex NE of Poona in just a day or two, closing that avenue of retreat. I excpect 48th Div. to enter the Poona hex from the SW in a day or two or three. I have units following, but it may be as long as a week or so before they can enter the hex needed to close that route of retreat from Poona. It will be a tight thing - I'm sure as soon as 48th reaches Poona, Brad will try to retire all his units through that hexside. Even if he manages to do so, however, he's then stuck on yellow roads a long way from Goa, his only hope for sanctuary. I'm nearly certain now that IJA 48th Div., 54th Div. and 6th Guards Div. will be destroyed (though Brad may have managed to extract a cadre). So the more pressing matter at the moment is closing with and finishing off the other three divisions - 5th, 12th, and 38th - retiring to the south in very bad condition.

Canoerebel -> RE: One Weird Battle (1/24/2011 3:25:07 PM)
In just posted a lengthy comment in the "General" forum about the Civil War, in response to a comment that 90% of southerners didn't own slaves. Since this is the beginning of the Civil War Sesquicentennial (Georgia withdrew from the Union 150 years + six days ago), this is an issue that we'll probably hear more about. Like many topics, this can deteriorate into a political issue, so I'm afraid that thread might get locked up. So I wanted to post my thoughts here, in a more private locale. I researched and wrote an article on the "90% of southerners never owned slave" position a few years ago. I was surprised by what I learned. It's true that approximately 90% of white southerners didn't owned slaves, but that is a misleading statistic for at least three reasons. First, while only 10% of white southerners owned slaves, another 40% to 60% of white southerners were either married to, or the children of, that 10%. I researched two Confederate infantry companies in this regard - one drew men primarily from a major town in a slave-owning area; the second came from a remote mountain valley were there were relatively few slaves. In both instances, the percentage of the soldiers who owned slaves in those two companies was nominal (10% or less). However, the percentage of their fathers who owned slaves was much, much higher - about 25% for the mountain company, and nearly 50% for the town men. And those statistics were on the low side - if I couldn't find proof postive that a soldier owned a slave or was the son of a slave owning father, I assumed he he wasn't. If I had been able to track down more of those who I couldn't confirm, I got a strong feeling that the percentages would actually be much higher - probably more like 50% to 75% of Confederate soldiers had a direct interest in the perpetuation of slavery, either because they owned a slave, their fathers did, or because they were involved in a directly related occupation (one soldier, for instance, was the son of an overseer on a large plantation). 2. Nearly all southerners had a vested interest in the perpetuation of slavery. The economy was highly dependent upon slavery, so a threat to it was a threat to the welfare of the southern people - even those who weren't members of slave-owning families. And that threat had really rattled southerners. Population growth in the north was threatening to unbalance political power. If more free states were admitted to the Union than slave, the South would have a minority in the United States Senate, the only political body that stood between it and political impotence (the North already controlled the House of Representatives, had just taken the Presidency, and had the power to appoint anti-slavery justices to the Supreme Court. So the South was about to lose the political strength to protect itself from the North, and this scared most southerners to death. 3. While slave owners were only 10% of the white southern population, they dominated political office in the south. In other words, nearly all political power was excercised by slave owners. It should come as no surprise, then, that when a grave threat to political balance and the economy arose, southerners reacted with passion and ultimately violence. I need to say that I am a southerner and proud of it. I love the South. I appreciate and honor the men who served their country. I recognize why they fought and the complexity of the issues that existed. I agree that a strong constitutional argument can be made that a member can withdraw from a union voluntarily created. I concur that state's rights is an important constitutional concept designed to limit the power (and abuses) of the central government. But while we southerners sincerely and with good reason raise a toast to state's rights, we must acknowledge that we were in the wrong when it came to human rights.

witpqs -> RE: One Weird Battle (1/24/2011 4:13:12 PM)
Thanks for that information. I really appreciate it.

paullus99 -> RE: One Weird Battle (1/24/2011 4:32:28 PM)
Great info there - people tend to minimize the injustices on their side, if it paints their heritage in a bad light.

witpqs -> RE: One Weird Battle (1/24/2011 4:50:01 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: paullus99 Great info there - people tend to minimize the injustices on their side, if it paints their heritage in a bad light. Good point. None of us did what our ancestors did, good or bad. Be proud of heritage, take the good on board and learn from the bad.

JohnDillworth -> RE: One Weird Battle (1/24/2011 5:05:03 PM)
I suspect that the common southern soldier enlisted out of pride and a sense of duty. Although their views on slavery might have been a consideration, I don't think that was their motivation. If I recall, when the war started it was more a question of states rights than slavery in particular. Dan, as a proud southerner, I submit you may have done the same, considering the social norms of the day. i believe that northerns enlisted, or were drafted, for a variety of reasons, but I suspect northern pride was not as strong. I think most of the folks in this thread are adults, and could discuss this rationally, but this is thin ice we tread on.

Canoerebel -> RE: One Weird Battle (1/24/2011 5:38:35 PM)
11/1/42 Back to the 20th century.... South of Poona: 900+ armored AV caught up to the retreating IJ stack and will try a deliberate attack tomorrow. Another 1,000 AV is trailing behind, including armor and infantry. West of Poona: 48th Div. remains a hex west of Poona. Two weak Allied units just entered the hex. I hope Brad won't attack them for at least one more day. East of Poona: Tomorrow, and Allied unit will enter the hex NE of Poona. This will give the Allies control of all the Poona hexsides (as long as Brad waits that one day before attacking with 48th Div. in the hex west of Poona). Poona: The Allies will attack day after tomorrow as long as I control all hexsides. The Allies will have 3000+ AV versus about 600 very tired IJA AV. Elsewhere: Quiet.

stuman -> RE: One Weird Battle (1/25/2011 4:05:18 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: witpqs quote: ORIGINAL: paullus99 Great info there - people tend to minimize the injustices on their side, if it paints their heritage in a bad light. Good point. None of us did what our ancestors did, good or bad. Be proud of heritage, take the good on board and learn from the bad. Man, we are getting downright philosophical. The important thing to agree on is that BBQ is far, far better in the South than anywhere else !

vettim89 -> RE: One Weird Battle (1/25/2011 4:18:45 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: stuman quote: ORIGINAL: witpqs quote: ORIGINAL: paullus99 Great info there - people tend to minimize the injustices on their side, if it paints their heritage in a bad light. Good point. None of us did what our ancestors did, good or bad. Be proud of heritage, take the good on board and learn from the bad. Man, we are getting downright philosophical. The important thing to agree on is that BBQ is far, far better in the South than anywhere else ! Well, BBQ is just food up North. Its a religion in the South

Bullwinkle58 -> RE: One Weird Battle (1/25/2011 12:57:50 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: vettim89 Well, BBQ is just food up North. Its a religion in the South Where no one can even agree what it is. Get a Goldsboro, NC/mustard-based sauce fan with a Memphis-style fan and see how they do.

JohnDillworth -> RE: One Weird Battle (1/25/2011 2:00:09 PM)
quote: The important thing to agree on is that BBQ is far, far better in the South than anywhere else ! Ah, but where in the south? Even if were to correctly remove Texas from the equation, many of you folks would not agree that the best is in the Carolinas

Bullwinkle58 -> RE: One Weird Battle (1/25/2011 2:11:42 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: JohnDillworth quote: The important thing to agree on is that BBQ is far, far better in the South than anywhere else ! Ah, but where in the south? Even if were to correctly remove Texas from the equation, many of you folks would not agree that the best is in the Carolinas I've lived for extended periods in both Carolinas and yes, there is no agreement. I can think of at least three major BBQ "centers of opinion" just in North Carolina--Goldsboro mustard-based, shoulder-only dry rub, and vinegar-based wet sauce with "hot slaw" in sandwich, not plain meat, format. Tomato-based sauces are also good as you go west, and I do like beef ribs on occasion, although I think pork is king. BBQ historically refers to a method of cooking as related only to the heat, not the flavor. (See Carribean buccaneers for the historical roots.) It was adopted (see "stolen") by southerners from the Spanish and French outcasts who processed wild pigs for passing ships in and out of the Spanish Main.

Canoerebel -> RE: One Weird Battle (1/25/2011 2:54:26 PM)
The best barbecue in America is served at Zeb's on U.S. Highway 29 near Danielsville, Georgia. That's no "home cooking" boast - Danielsville is about 150 miles from where I live and I only make it to Zeb's once in a blue moon. On a totally separate note brought to mind by the barbecue topic, let me tell you about an odd event that happened to me at a back roads barbecue joint a few years ago. My family and I were on the long drive home from Myrtle Beach to our home in northwest Georgia. On the way, I decided to take them to lunch at a little ol' country BBQ joint way off the beaten path - Holcomb's BBQ in White Plains, Georgia. I had enjoyed eating there many times during the mid 1980s when I worked for a timber company in the area. So, we pulled into Holcombs and nothing had changed. Same old sprawling building with sawdust floor. It was a Saturday afternoon in June and the place was pretty busy. We sat at a picnic table and enjoyed our lunch with plenty of excellent Georgia sweet tea. However, we did note that our waitress was a bit of a grump and that the entire establishment lacked the friendly country ambiance we're used to in rural Georgia. After awhile, we noticed that there was a "take out window" outside the restaurant. Patrons could park, walk up to this window, pay for their vittles, and carry on. The first patron who used this window happened to be a black lady. Then the second happened to be a black lady. Then the third was a black....and then we noticed that their were no black patrons in the dining area. [:@] P.S. There is a chance that this was pure coincidence. That we just happened to dine there when no blacks wanted to enter, and all take out customers happened to be black. There is that small chance that this was a matter of chance. But I doubt it.

Canoerebel -> RE: One Weird Battle (1/25/2011 3:43:00 PM)
11/2/42 South of Poona: Oops, I apparently ordered only one small armored unit to attack. It did so, but didn't accomplish anything. Most of the lagging units have arrived now, however, so a stack of about 1900 AV will attack tomorrow. I've set about 290 armored AV to reserve. I think this attack will punish and dislodge the already-mauled IJA units. If so, the retreat will turn into a real route. Meanwhile, Brad is trying to use bombers from Goa to reduce the strength of the Allied units, but to little effect. Tomorrow, an Allied bombardment TF will hit Goa, as will about 75 4EB (if they fly), so I hope to destroy some aircraft on the ground. Poona: The Allies have this hex surrounded (assuming Brad's 48th Div. to the west doesn't reclaim it's hex tomorrow). 3,500 Allied AV at Poona will attack tomorrow. This force should make mincemeat of the defenders - two-plus divisions totalling only 600 AV. My major concern is that the defenders don't get a chance to retreat. If they do, however, they'll be on yellow trails far from any sanctuary. The Allies will destroy these units in any case, but I'd rather keep them bottled up than to have to corral them. East India: It seems that Coconado (spelling?) on the east coast is well-defended by the Japanese, but that adjacent Viz is vacant. Chindits will para-assault Viz tomorrow. If successful, two Allied infantry units set to strategic mode will race to Viz from nearby Raipur. If this goes well, the Allies will have divided the IJ army in India into two camps - one in NE India and the second in the southern section. Pacific: Quiet. The Allied carriers are halfway to Tahita from the eastern edge of the map.

Chickenboy -> RE: One Weird Battle (1/25/2011 4:18:10 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: vettim89 quote: ORIGINAL: stuman quote: ORIGINAL: witpqs quote: ORIGINAL: paullus99 Great info there - people tend to minimize the injustices on their side, if it paints their heritage in a bad light. Good point. None of us did what our ancestors did, good or bad. Be proud of heritage, take the good on board and learn from the bad. Man, we are getting downright philosophical. The important thing to agree on is that BBQ is far, far better in the South than anywhere else ! Well, BBQ is just food up North. Its a religion in the South The Economist, of all magazines had a large article on it recently. They delicately sidestepped some of the provincial preferences espoused by the locals and objectively dealt with the subject at hand nicely. I will ask this: can anyone beat North Carolina's hush puppies?

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