RE: Illinois Yankee in Showa Court (Q-Ball v Canoe) (Full Version)

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Nemo121 -> RE: Illinois Yankee in Showa Court (Q-Ball v Canoe) (7/18/2010 7:57:27 AM)

Well crouton, you're perfectly welcome to your opinion but:
A. "apart from some extra production there's nothing to gain with India"

Lol!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Firstly this game is ALL about logistics so to be so blasé about the boost India gives one is worrying in and of itself but to overlook the benefits of bottling up the British in Aden and the strategic space and time this gives one is rather short-sighted.


B. As to holding Northern Oz serving the Japanese more than india I'd say that's an amazing thing to say. Logistically, strategically, on the national policy level and even on the level of just trying to pit your strengths against enemy weakness instead of the converse oz is worse than India.


C. Taking Hawaii can be done very cheaply. To blithely suggest that taking it is war-losing without a supporting argument is untenable.



As to Canoerebel.... He is an opportunist. He has vague plans and often utterly scraps them when he sees an opportunity. He then proceeds, fails and analyses that he over-reached when really he just under planned and prepared. Show him opportunities you have prepped as plans and he will blithely wander into them time after time. There is no significant depth of strategic thought there. The DEI is a route suited to such a style as there are always some poorly defended bases in every direction and an opportunist will always make some progress. A strategist, however, will only take what he needs and will progress much more efficiently. This isn't Canoerebel.

I think that QBall should focus on strategic level conundrums for Canoerebel as that appears to be a significant weakness and traps should be based on the appearance of weakness and opportunity. From what I've read QBall has the strategic chops to actually push Canoerebel more in these ways than Canoerebel's more recent opponents so I'm looking forward to an interesting matchup....

Oz however is not the choice to be making vs Canoerebel. To each their own though.


As to Hawaiian light industry. Just bomb it to dust. Shouldn't cost more than a few planes if done right.



DTurtle -> RE: Illinois Yankee in Showa Court (Q-Ball v Canoe) (7/18/2010 8:33:15 AM)

Another thing that speaks for India in my opinion, is the fact that a Burma counter-offensive for the allies is very, very easy and effective for the Allies, as the supply equations are still borked - something that can be seen in almost every AAR out there. This requires - sooner or later - a large reinforcement of this area in order to stop them (for example, in your AAR vs Hemajor). Instead of having to reinforce the area to just stop the Allies, why not go on the offensive and force him to react?



desicat -> RE: Illinois Yankee in Showa Court (Q-Ball v Canoe) (7/18/2010 2:10:12 PM)

Underestimate CR at your own risk. Nemo states CR fails to plan precisely, yet I see him as someone who pushes the enemy defense until a weakness presents itself and he takes advantage of it. Does he change plans midstream, yes, but that is what happens IRL. CR plans overlapping advances and is not afraid of losses, i.e. playing to the Allied strengths.

Clausewitz states; No plan survives contact with the enemy, and; It is even better to act quickly and err than to hesitate until the time of action is past. CR makes great use of what Clausewitz called "friction".

Nemo is correct that logistics rule the conflict, especially in China. I would love to see QB try the Pearl Harbor gambit as it would force CR to act on an axis that he has avoided in all his other games to this point. A PH gambit would reduce the number of approach avenues that make CR's play style the threat that it is. Ironically, CR play's much more like Grant than any of his Southern heros.



Tone -> RE: Illinois Yankee in Showa Court (Q-Ball v Canoe) (7/18/2010 3:30:32 PM)

I feel that any large scale operations past the historical Japanese expansion in the Pacific are now realistically impossible because of the fuel situation in the overall game. It is my opinion that there is now not the levels of fuel to support large scale naval operations to obtain and maintain far flung bases in the pacific. That also there is not the fuel lift capacity to supply large operations in the Pacific and the Home Islands industry at the same time.

On Australia, my thinking that along with occupying Port Moresby that just a base at Port Headland is all that is needed to neutralize Darwin as a main Allied base. This base could be supported by naval forces based on Java, and also quickly reinforced from there. It can also be used as a forward refueling base for submarine and surface forces interdicting Allied seaborne supply traffic in the Perth area.

I think the key to Allied operations in India is Ceylon, who ever controls Ceylon controls the Bay of Bengal and all large scale supply movement to the Deccan and Calcutta. The Allies cannot launch any large scale ground operations in to Burma without a seaborne supply route to the Bengal.



tocaff -> RE: Illinois Yankee in Showa Court (Q-Ball v Canoe) (7/19/2010 2:13:40 AM)

I like Nemo's thinking.  Neutralize PH and Darwin.  Hit India, Ceylon first.  If you fall short of an auto victory you'll be presenting CR with so many problems that his striking back at you will be all the more difficult.



Q-Ball -> RE: Illinois Yankee in Showa Court (Q-Ball v Canoe) (7/19/2010 3:07:58 PM)

Strategy: I appreciate all the thoughts and commments, and this sparked an interesting discussion. This really centers around the most important question of the game for the Empire: What do you do when the smoke clears in the SRA?

I think the first two months or so for the Empire are basically programmed; you MUST take Singapore, and the Oil; no choice there that I can see. You should move on Rabaul and Burma, it's open and there is no reason not to, especially as Burma has more OIL on tap.

So, the Japanese players first moves are programmed, but after that, you MUST be thinking about Phase 2: The most important part in the game. And ideally, you want whatever is happening in Phase 2 to feature a major landing before 3/31/42, when the landing bonus disappears. This BONUS is so critical to fast movement of Japanese forces.

Given all the comments, the main push will be INDIA. I do have to account for my flanks, so other moves:

AUSTRALIA: The keys to Southern DEI are Horn Island, and Port Hedland. Defending Horn also requires Port Moresby, plus an airbase cluster at Lae/Nadzab/Finchshafen. Can't allow the Allies to force the Torres Strait.

Port Hedland is less-easy to defend; with Corunna Downs you have a 2-airbase cluster, and another cluster back at Broome-Derby, but it's not as easy as the Torres Strait. Still, it's what you have. You can create space by moving further down the coast to Exmouth, Carnarvon, etc, but single bases are very vulnerable to a 4E supported smash-and-grab. The only good thing is that once the Allies round Exmouth, they better have Naval Superiority, as KB and friends can easily pin an Allied fleet against the coast and slaughter it completely. I've done that in another PBEM game.

Taking Northern Australia is pretty easy, especially if you ignore/isolate Darwin, which is the only point with any defenses.

So, one element will be limited landings/incursions to Northern Oz. I can accomplish this with the troops I already have in the Southern DEI, basically 2 Inf Regts, 3-4 Nav Gd, and a Tank Rgt.

HAWAII: I appreciate the strategy of isolating Pearl. I have reservations about this, not getting ashore, but rather the 4E threat. Nobody thinks you can keep Pearl closed; I am pessimistic that you can make Pearl run out of supplies;. The Allies will gladly risk xAKs to ship more in, so it would require round the clock vigilance to keep it unsupplied; I don't think Bettys are enough. A pile of AKs, plus a spate of bad weather and a little CAP, and the Allies can get supplies in. Bettys are a great weapon, but an unreliable one. Too many times I have screamed at the screen: "Launch, DAMMIT!"

If I am right and Bettys are not enough, then it's a losing strategy. Keeping a fleet out there would burn a ton of fuel, and either I need to keep MOST of the fleet out there, or risk a Naval Battle at inferior numbers. Tethering the Fleet to a specific geographic point is an invitation for disaster.

I also hate to do nothing to the USN and wait, so I need a strategy in the Pacific while I am out conquering India. Dan will try something, that's for sure, so maybe I can play off that somehow. How can I LURE him to attack something?

INDIA: We're going for India. We need to get there quick, because the Brits start very weak but get stronger every month. The quicker we get there, the easier it will be.

First order of business is taking Singapore. Can't do anything until that happens, other than Prep units. I AM prepping divisions in Manchuria and Home Islands for landing spots. I have not settled on where to land, however. Any suggestions? I need to take a look at defenses, particularly where the 9.2 CD guns are.

We probably should take Ceylon first. This will take alot of troops. Once that's done, however, we have alot of options for landings. Getting ashore on Ceylon should be easy, the hard part will be dislodging what figure to be alot of dug-in defenders.

I intend a lackidasical invasion of Burma; the more UK troops that are there when I strike, the better. Anyone that can will clear out of Burma without being pushed when I start attacking India anyway.

Anyway, all good thoughts, we haven't finished this discussion.



Q-Ball -> RE: Illinois Yankee in Showa Court (Q-Ball v Canoe) (7/19/2010 3:21:53 PM)

Meanwhile, back to the war........

Combat Report, Dec 24-26, 1941:

Allied CV Intel: After spotting ENTERPRISE off Sydney on the 23rd, another sub, I-169, spotted 3 TFs, including the USN CVs, off the Southeast tip of Australia, on a Southwest heading into the Tasman Strait. The torps missed again, unfortunately.

The good news is that we know where the USN CVs are. There is a chance Dan will know he was spotted and change course, but for now, they appear to be headed to the Indian Ocean, to raid the SRA.

I immediately planned to get KB and friends off the Northwest tip of Australia to arrange a reception. It would be a major coup to sink 2 CVs, and with the CVs down there, I can move freely elsewhere without fear of intervention.

But, we had our own intel problem......

SORYU spotted: I had detached Car Div 5 to Ambon, which combined with Baby KB might be enough to take on 2 USN CVs by themselves. Alas, just outside of Ambon, a Dutch Sub put a torp into SORYU.

So, he knows now I have CVs in the DEI. SORYU requires repair, so need to head to Japan. It appears to be a 30-day repair, so I don't think it will change the strategic situation, other than I don't think it will be easy anymore to ambush those CVs. Dang!

Malaya: We are advancing at a walk. I should have landed at Mersing; a slow-take of Singapore will turn out to be a problem for my India campaign.

Java: On the bright side, we are landing on Java within a week.

FALLEN BASES: Hong Kong, Balikpapan, Kendari, Koepang, Rabaul, Shortlands, Ocean and Nauru have all fallen in the last 3-4 days. We are approaching Kuala Lumpur on Malaya, and on Luzon, we have taken everything up to the gates of Clark, where the Allies are making their stand.

Within the week, I plan landings at Makassar, Kalidjati (on Java), Samarinda, and Tulagi, with Port Moresby about 10 days out. (and Horn Is. about 5 days after that).

So far I am fortunate on the OIL; Tarakan, Balikpapan, and Miri/Brunei were all captured with very minimal damage. Of course that won't matter if "the big one" is trashed......

Luzon: The Hong Kong troops are being shipped to Luzon, to reduce/destroy Clark. In WITP I would be bypassing Luzon at this point, but in AE it seems much more doable to quickly close it out, so we are going to go for that, and free up these units for India.



Alfred -> RE: Illinois Yankee in Showa Court (Q-Ball v Canoe) (7/19/2010 8:23:55 PM)

Q-Ball,

I don't normally pay much attention to Japan. However, in view of your open invitation for suggestions I thought some preliminary observations might be useful in helping you to focus your Phase II plans. Generally speaking there is much to recommend in what Nemo advocates, although I don't view Australia as being totally a dead end provided it is invaded for the right reason. The common reason advanced of capturing northern Australia in order to protect the DEI is not, IMHO the proper reason.

I believe that you and your opponent will determine victory in this match on the basis of VPs. That being so, the key question for you to answer is not what to attack in Phase II but how the necessary VPs for victory are to be garnered. I see at least 5 different strategies to accomplish this objective:

(1) possession of bases

(2) destruction of enemy units

(3) strategic bombing of Allied industry (and why Australia is not necessarily a dead end for Japan)

(4) maintenance of a strong Japanese economy in order to generate the materiel to stymie late war Allied moves

(5) denial of the Allied ability to engage in strategic point scoring

Where you move to in Phase II depends on which one of the above strategies is adopted. Of course the planning for Phase II will still required considerable work with several competing operational alternatives within each of the above five strategies.

Alfred



Q-Ball -> RE: Illinois Yankee in Showa Court (Q-Ball v Canoe) (7/20/2010 3:18:40 PM)

Combat Report, Dec 27-28, 1941:

Allied DD Raid: An allied DD raid intercepted and basically wiped out a convoy of AKLs off Sakhalin. Although 10 ships went down, they were all 2-VP slow ships, only good for hauling coal and timber around the Home Islands.

I don't really care about the AKLs, and it's pretty risky to come that close to the Home Islands without losing some DDs. The biggest problem for me is that my air search didn't pick up on these guys, despite having a Betty unit at Bihoro patrolling the Sea of Okhotsk. Paramushiro Jima does not start with any AV support, I had a unit ticketed to go up there, so we'll do that and set up an airbase.

Snap landing at Palembang: I have been continuously Reconning Palembang; I didn't want Dan to withdraw the Malaya army there wholesale like Nemo did in that AAR. Can't have fortress Sumatra!

I had a large convoy of troops at Billiton, ready to land on Java. The unit count at Palembang, though, went to 3, so I decided on a snap landing there instead. We should take the base tommorow, and pick up most of those troops and proceed to Java.

If he wants to evacuate the Malaya army to the REST of Sumatra, that's fine by me; I just need Palembang relatively intact.

Samarinda: Samarinda fell intact, with all 100 Oil Centers unscathed! We'll know tommorow where we stand on OIL in general, once Palembang falls.....

Attacks Tommorow: We have a bunch of land attacks planned for tommorow, a big day potentially....

Palembang will be attacked, along with Kuala Lumpur and Temoulah on Malaya, Loyang in China, and Clark Field. I anticipate success everywhere but Clark, I just want to see how strong it is. The 38th Div is on it's way to Clark from Hong Kong, along with a pile of Artillery.



[image]local://upfiles/6931/C603FDD4819549BFA0BDE2CFFFBF1B48.jpg[/image]



Capt. Harlock -> RE: Illinois Yankee in Showa Court (Q-Ball v Canoe) (7/20/2010 8:24:45 PM)

quote:

We probably should take Ceylon first. This will take alot of troops. Once that's done, however, we have alot of options for landings. Getting ashore on Ceylon should be easy, the hard part will be dislodging what figure to be alot of dug-in defenders.


My two cents: take Trincomalee but not Columbo. Install a squadron or two of Kates and feast on the British shipping. Dig in your ground-pounders and let the SEAC troops waste themselves against your defenses. (Mind you, this doesn't work if you don't care about victory points.)



Q-Ball -> RE: Illinois Yankee in Showa Court (Q-Ball v Canoe) (7/20/2010 9:02:20 PM)

Combat Report, Dec 29, 1941:

This turn mostly featured good results for the Empire

Palembang: The base fell, which I expected. The OIL and REFINERY were each damaged about 150 points, which is A-OK by me, particularly since everything else was basically captured intact. Palembang is now pumping for the Empire, and the largest units are re-loading on the transports for Java.

Loyang: This attack did not go so well; it was 1-1 and dropped the forts, but we suffered over 4000 casualties. A rebuff at the hands of the Chinese! There are 22 Chinese Units in the hex and more on the way, so Loyang figures to be a long siege.

Temoulah: THIS was the best result! The attack routed 3 Indian Bdes and the Argyll Bn, who retreated toward Kuantan. That is very unhelpful for Dan and bad luck, but then again, he shouldn't have been defending Central Malaya in the first place.

The attack at Kuala Lumpur stalled, but I am brining up reinforcements. The Brits there will now likely retreat, but I hope to maul them too.

Singapore will be a much easier nut to crack now hopefully, with the ground losses the Allies are suffering. If I can save a couple weeks on Singapore, that will mean a quicker move on India.

Banjermisan: Invasion fleet sailed today.

Java: Oscars over Soerbaya have been constantly sweeping the town, shooting down Dutch fighters.

Not sure why Dan contests all my sweeps; in the Phillipines you kind of don't have a choice, but sweeping has shot down over 100 RAF Buffalos (pretty much all of them), and now at least 40 Dutch fighters and counting. It's not like they are any good, but as escorts anyway.

We'll take it though.




Alfred -> RE: Illinois Yankee in Showa Court (Q-Ball v Canoe) (7/20/2010 9:20:49 PM)

Why siege Loyang. With so many Chinese there they will quickly consume the local supplies. Also you can pin the enemy there whilst working along the flanks (along the mountains to the north and via Nanyang to the south. In both cases your units will be operating on superior and secure supply lines as you advance on Sian. That would make the Chinese position at Loyang moot.

Alfred



crsutton -> RE: Illinois Yankee in Showa Court (Q-Ball v Canoe) (7/20/2010 11:08:44 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Nemo121

Well crouton, you're perfectly welcome to your opinion but:
A. "apart from some extra production there's nothing to gain with India"

Lol!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Firstly this game is ALL about logistics so to be so blasé about the boost India gives one is worrying in and of itself but to overlook the benefits of bottling up the British in Aden and the strategic space and time this gives one is rather short-sighted.


B. As to holding Northern Oz serving the Japanese more than india I'd say that's an amazing thing to say. Logistically, strategically, on the national policy level and even on the level of just trying to pit your strengths against enemy weakness instead of the converse oz is worse than India.


C. Taking Hawaii can be done very cheaply. To blithely suggest that taking it is war-losing without a supporting argument is untenable.



As to Canoerebel.... He is an opportunist. He has vague plans and often utterly scraps them when he sees an opportunity. He then proceeds, fails and analyses that he over-reached when really he just under planned and prepared. Show him opportunities you have prepped as plans and he will blithely wander into them time after time. There is no significant depth of strategic thought there. The DEI is a route suited to such a style as there are always some poorly defended bases in every direction and an opportunist will always make some progress. A strategist, however, will only take what he needs and will progress much more efficiently. This isn't Canoerebel.

I think that QBall should focus on strategic level conundrums for Canoerebel as that appears to be a significant weakness and traps should be based on the appearance of weakness and opportunity. From what I've read QBall has the strategic chops to actually push Canoerebel more in these ways than Canoerebel's more recent opponents so I'm looking forward to an interesting matchup....

Oz however is not the choice to be making vs Canoerebel. To each their own though.


As to Hawaiian light industry. Just bomb it to dust. Shouldn't cost more than a few planes if done right.



Well, I hope you talked Q-ball into the India gambit. I would like to see how it plays out.



crsutton -> RE: Illinois Yankee in Showa Court (Q-Ball v Canoe) (7/20/2010 11:24:04 PM)

Opps! I did not read enough. Great, India it is! Good luck there and it will be a fun AAR to follow.

A big factor is how well he reads your intentions. As the Allied player, I always have an India first policy and send at least an American fighter, heavy bomber and medium group at the start to the game. Then perhaps some dive bombers and a marine fighter squadron or two. Throw in a few Canadian air units and you can have a pretty decent air force in India. Another thing is what he does with the  excellent 1st Australian corp. If they go to India then they can be a big help. In my two games I sent them to India and then moved them on to OZ when the threat subsided. It cost me time and space in Oz but I was more worried about India early in the game.

But you are right. Time is the key. A quick march to Singapore will make a big difference.  What you can accomplish in India in March becomes very difficult in May. Good hunting.



rader -> RE: Illinois Yankee in Showa Court (Q-Ball v Canoe) (7/21/2010 12:01:32 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Q-Ball

First order of business is taking Singapore. Can't do anything until that happens, other than Prep units. I AM prepping divisions in Manchuria and Home Islands for landing spots. I have not settled on where to land, however. Any suggestions?



Yes, absolutely!

I conquered India in WITP against a good human opponent, and I've studied the map intensively in AE for this also. I think the best landing site would be the twin cities of Vizagapatnam and Cocanada (see map). They are completely undefended at the start (no units at all) and far from allied air bases so the landing should be unnoposed. Vizangapatam is a clear hex, so virtually indefensible for him anyway. Bring tons of AA units and engineers to quickly build up airbases and protect the nascent airfields as you build them up ASAP (I mean absolutely mass AA with 20+ units bought from Japan - this works really well!). With tons of engineers you ought to be able to convert their dirt strips into major runways in no time (and use KB for air support until you get them into fighter strips at least). Once the beachhead is secure and with the airfields building, return the KB and fleet to defend the perimeter.

This landing position offers a good opportunity to press inland. I would ignore Ceylon as a distraction, but aim to isolate it by taking Madras and other bases in the South. Once you conquer India, you can take Ceylon at will, and you won't have to fight any troops he leaves to defend it until then. I would also ignore Burma early game to try to entice him to reinforce it. As you press inland, your first mission should be to isolate the Calcutta region, and destroy any troops in the pocket. Then press on and make it a war of maneuver inland (buy out armor units from China & Kwangtung - Japan can get around 3000 AFVs)! Frankly, I don't see any reason why the Japanese would be unable to conquer India in AE if they put their mind to it, even with the free reinforcements (which you shouldn't trigger until you clean up the rest of the subcontinent).

[image]local://upfiles/14041/795C4A296313429BB175DEF73E7406F9.jpg[/image]



Q-Ball -> RE: Illinois Yankee in Showa Court (Q-Ball v Canoe) (7/21/2010 6:56:31 PM)

Combat Report, 12/31/41:

DD Raid on Sakhalin: Another Allied DD TF attacked up here, sinking 20(!) small tranports. Ouch!

I could care less about the transports, but I can't have the Allies sinking everything up there either. I refuse to bend strategic plans for such little crap, but we do need to take countermeasures, as I need to run resource convoys from Sakhalin, and can't have them constantly threatened by DDs.

First, we are setting up an airbase on Para Jima, and probably one or two others in the Kuriles. I need to do that regardless, so no big deal.

I have excess surface units for now, because it appears the ABDA navy has fled from the DEI; I have Betty bases now covering almost all of it, so no surprise there. So, I am detailng a couple crappy units to intercept the next run, as I think Dan will keep making those runs until I sink some DDs. And I'm not sending CAs or important units, just CLs and old DDs.

Other than that, I'm not going to do anything about this.

Malaya: The news down here is all good, as the Allies are in trouble. Kuala Lumpur fell, but more importantly the defenders were mauled; over 100 combat squads killed, and an AT Regt surrendered. 4 more units, including Aussies, are SE of Kuala on a trail hex; we are moving down the road to cut them off at the next town. I don't need to cut-off these units, but if I can maul them before they get to Singers, it will make that capture go easy.

I predict I will have Singapore cleared in mid-January at the latest.

Luzon: The first attack on Clark was disappointing; we are bringing up the 38th Div. and trying again.

What I do here will depend on progress the next couple weeks; if Clark starts to crack, we continue. If not, I am going to withdraw most of the troops, leave a covering force, and starve them out over 1942.




Q-Ball -> RE: Illinois Yankee in Showa Court (Q-Ball v Canoe) (7/23/2010 1:15:39 PM)

Combat Report, Jan 1-3, 1942:

As we turn the calendar to the new year, a few happenings around the map.....

Malaya: The Allies deployed forward are retreating south now. I am bombing them to slow them down; though attacking them will take an extra day or two while I am marching down Malaya, mauling them would be very worth it.

I still predict mid-January for Sinagpore.

Luzon: We are close to trying another attack, as soon as the last of the artillery is in place.

DEI: Banjermisan falls. The Java invasion fleet was delayed at Billiton, because they started to unload there for some reason; that took 3 days to unload and re-pack. We are now headed for Kalidjati.

Burma: Lead elements of the 55th Division have entered Burma, and taken Moulmein. The Allies seem to be massing at Pegu. I'm not concerned with making progress in Burma; after all, the more Allied troops there when I invade India, the better.

Port Moresby: We should be landing on Port Moresby in a couple days.

Allied CVs: They were last sighted Dec 26th off Sydney; they are at about the point where they may appear in the Indian Ocean. Probably too late now, as I have an Air HQ unloading at Koepang, and another shortly will be at Kalidjati; together that puts up a pretty good NETTY umbrella over the DEI.



Q-Ball -> RE: Illinois Yankee in Showa Court (Q-Ball v Canoe) (7/24/2010 11:19:17 PM)

Combat Report, Jan 4-6, 1942:

Action off Northwest Oz: I sent KB Jr. on a raid to the NW tip of Oz; my calculations were this was about the last chance to do so before the USN CVs had a chance to round Perth and interfere. I was hoping to find advance forces or something.

Good news: I found an Allied cruiser TF at Carnarvon, just parked there. Bad News: I thought I had re-loaded torps, but didn't. I put 5 bombs onto JAVA, but probably didn't wound her fatally. I would have liked to pursue, but thought better of it.

On the way back to Ambon, we did spot and "anchor" at Port Hedland, where I guessed a cruiser fled. We raided the port on the way home, sinking TROMP. Better than nothing I guess.

Allied CVs: No idea where; last spotted 12/26 near Sydney. Dan knows that I know I spotted them (if you follow), so not sure they continued into the Indian Ocean, or aborted.

Malaya: Still marching.

Java: We FINALLY are loading for Java; we wasted a week on loads-unloads and follow commands.

Port Moresby: We landed 2 Regts and a Tank unit at PM; first attack was 1-1 and dropped the forts. We will rest a day or two, and attack again; that should do it.



racndoc -> RE: Illinois Yankee in Showa Court (Q-Ball v Canoe) (7/25/2010 5:01:58 AM)

Q-Ball....good luck with the India invasion. After reading all the pre-AE release threads Andy Mac scared me a bit about India/Ceylon so I sent all the "at sea" troops to Ceylon and the Ist Australian Corps and 18th UK Division to India along with all the III Indian Corps troops from Malaya. By mid 1942 I had over 4000 unrestricted AV sitting around in India and with nothing else to do I invaded Burma and ended up overrunning all of SE Asia. If you think you can beat 4000 unrestricted AV in India plus the locals then go for it.

Meanwhile, its been shown in multiple AARs that the Allies can easily advance north from Darwin into the DEI in 1943 and the only way to stop or delay this is to invade northern Australia. I could have destroyed my opponent in 1942 by advancing north from Darwin in 1942 but I chose not to as I wanted to test strategic warfare..... ie ASW/SUB and eventually strategic bombing.

Im convinced that the ONLY chance Japan has in AE is to hold northern Australia well into late 1943.



Q-Ball -> RE: Illinois Yankee in Showa Court (Q-Ball v Canoe) (7/25/2010 7:11:03 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: AdmSpruance

Q-Ball....good luck with the India invasion. After reading all the pre-AE release threads Andy Mac scared me a bit about India/Ceylon so I sent all the "at sea" troops to Ceylon and the Ist Australian Corps and 18th UK Division to India along with all the III Indian Corps troops from Malaya. By mid 1942 I had over 4000 unrestricted AV sitting around in India and with nothing else to do I invaded Burma and ended up overrunning all of SE Asia. If you think you can beat 4000 unrestricted AV in India plus the locals then go for it.

Meanwhile, its been shown in multiple AARs that the Allies can easily advance north from Darwin into the DEI in 1943 and the only way to stop or delay this is to invade northern Australia. I could have destroyed my opponent in 1942 by advancing north from Darwin in 1942 but I chose not to as I wanted to test strategic warfare..... ie ASW/SUB and eventually strategic bombing.

Im convinced that the ONLY chance Japan has in AE is to hold northern Australia well into late 1943.


These are good points, and a couple comments on them.

First, the key to India is getting there FAST, like in February 1942. Anything past then, and I am probably going to run into massive reinforcements. I am also attempting India because there are limited folks who have tried it, AND, to hopefully blunt that drive from SE Asia.

I don't think taking and holding Northern Oz will takeaway from that. Only Darwin is a tough target, and my understanding is that the supply paths have been changed to make Darwin not really sustainable for the Allies overland, as it should be.

The key to holding Northern Australia will be air control over the Torres Strait and NW corner of Australia.

Luzon: I didn't mention, but the last attack on Clark did not go well; I had over 1600 AV plus engineers in the hex, and no progress was made against the forts.

I am thinking of bypassing Luzon. What do you guys think? Here would be the plan:

1. Leave 65th Bde and probably 16th Div to keep the Allies from breaking out.
2. Leave a large airbase at Vigan, with about 100 IJA bombers to keep holing the airstrip
3. Establish bases in the lower Phillipines to keep an eye out for single AK resupply attempts
4. Wait out most of 1942 for these guys to starve; when I have some spare troops or my offensives wind down, I will liquidate the pocket.

I am not giving up until the fall of Singapore is near, at which point I need to use those troops to move on, not get hung-up on Clark.



racndoc -> RE: Illinois Yankee in Showa Court (Q-Ball v Canoe) (7/26/2010 4:03:14 AM)

An India invasion in 2/42 could work. Wow....thats moving pretty fast. Take Port Blair and dont let Canoerebel extract any of III Indian Corps from Malaya to India.

Good luck!



Q-Ball -> RE: Illinois Yankee in Showa Court (Q-Ball v Canoe) (7/26/2010 3:49:01 PM)

Combat Report, Jan 7-8, 1942:

Malaya: We are still kicking units down the peninsula; this is slowing our progress somewhat, but should make the actual capture of Sinagpore a piece of cake when we get there.

I observed a couple units withdrawing via flying boat through Medan, and dropped paras the next town up the coast to cut that off. I think he has been withdrawing fragments from India. I should have been a bit quicker on that, at least he didn't park them in Palembang; that would have been bad.

Java: I am finally landing on Kalidjati; after taking that base, we will quickly set-up an airbase, and take Bandoeng, which will split the KNIL forces in two and make them easier to finish off. I'll probably clear Batavia first.

Overall in the DEI, I have not seen any sign of Allied Naval Forces. There is a chance that Allied CVs are lurking in the Indian Ocean; with Betties at Kalidjati and Koepang, however, that would make any CV incursion into the DEI risky. There is no chance he'll send in surface forces, other than ABDA throwaway types.

IJN Planning:
Given this, I am standing down most of the IJN for the moment. Until I move into the Bay of Bengal or clear PM, I don't really have much of a role for the bulk of the fleet. I am organizing raiding forces to visit Noumea and Pago Pago in the meantime, hoping to intercept convoys.

I outran my fuel breifly preventing this move, but I am now pumping gas from the DEI, and sending it to Truk and elsewhere, as well as back home. I am in great shape overall in fuel stocks, since I captured the OIL centers so early, and so intact.

Broome: I will be landing at Broome shortly, the first spot on the Australian Coast. I would like to "sell" an invasion of Australia. I have several Manchurian units prepping for Australian targets; hopefully one is picked-up on intel.

Luzon: We will try an attack in a couple days, but I am starting to feel we will need to bypass this point; I need those troops for India once Singapore falls. Probably one more try, then we will move most of them out.

China: The Chinese evacuated Loyang; I started to surround those 22 units, but Dan must have spotted my flankers, and left. Wise move. I will continue to clear the Central Plain, and stop there for a drive on Kukong.

I don't plan big offensives in China; the garrison requirements are too strong, I can't strat-bomb the supplies, and I would like ot pull troops from there anyway.

Port Moresby: The last attack was 2-1; it should fall tommorow.

Guerrillas: One of the irritating things about the DEI, is that Dutch troops don't surrender; they flee into the bush. While that is hazardous for their long-term health, it forces me to keep units at those bases, or risk the Dutch coming back, taking the base, and getting a square meal.

I am bypassing big chunks of Allied territory in the interest of pushing out the perimeter, which is a good strategy IMO, but leaves stuff in my rear. The main consequence is that unconquered bases can support subs, via floatplane recon and fuel.



Q-Ball -> RE: Illinois Yankee in Showa Court (Q-Ball v Canoe) (7/27/2010 4:09:48 AM)

Combat Report, Jan 9-11, 1942:

Some interesting little combats the last few days.....

Malaya: Apparently Dan is evacuating fragments from Sorong. I stopped the trains at Langgsa, but there are a few fragments at Sorong. Bettys from Khota sortied and sank a large xAP and damaged another, along with a couple xAKLs. I put more on Nav attack, so if he wants to get the units out, it will start to get expensive.

Kalidjati: We got ashore cleanly on the 9th, and 2 units have already reached Bandoeng; we need to take it to cut the island in two, then liquidate the two halves. Bettys from Kalidjati sortied and sank 2 AMcs; no big deal, except now Dan knows I have torp planes on Java, so it's unlikely I'll see any warships near there anytime soon.

Air Raid on Darwin: I spotted ships in port in Darwin, with no fighters at the base. 70 Netties raided from Koepang, sinking 2 AMs, and damaging several xAPs in the harbor. With Port Moresby and Koepang each have Air HQs, those ships aren't escaping, unless they can be disassembled and moved overland.

I was hoping to find warships or subs, though.

Horn Island: Units are landing at Horn Island; it should fall tommorow. This base is key to holding the Torres Strait, which is important in AE.

On the other end of Australia, we will be landing at Broome tommorow.

Cruiser Actions: A force built around JAVA and 4 old DDs attacked 2 Mutsuki-class DDs I had covering Horn Is. The DDs escaped with minor damage.

I had a target though for KB; I sent them down the Australian coast to intercept those raiders. Instead of those ships, they found HMAS CANBERRA; in a night action, we fought her off, and annihilated her in the day phase. That's the first CA lost for the Allies. I can see throwing away JAVA and old DDs, but kind of surprised to see a CA tossed around like that.

Japan: An Allied DD force was sighted off the coast of Japan (!). They must have shot the gap north of Marcus, and used an AO to refuel.

Hopefully they raid a port. They won't find anything, other than mines or Bettys. I have a unit that is stuck in the Home Islands; I set it on Nav Attack to take a shot.




Q-Ball -> RE: Illinois Yankee in Showa Court (Q-Ball v Canoe) (7/27/2010 6:55:05 PM)

Combat Report, Jan 12, 1942:

Night Action off Horn Island: The DE RUYTER TF popped up again at Horn Island; this time instead of 2 DDs, she met 2 IJN CAs. The TFs engaged at long range and withdrew, with only a couple shell hits on each side.

The Allied TF withdrew into the Arafura Sea; it is homeported probably at Darwin. I plan to intercept it on the return trip. At this point, those ships are kind of stuck between KB, and Bettys at Koepang.

Northern Australia: I am landing at Broome tommorow. Darwin was plastered again, sinking 2 more xAPs; the rest are fleeing west, where I expect to sink them with Bettys tommorow.

Australia For Sale: I would like to "sell" an attack on Australia to Dan. After Horn Island, I will land a small force at Portland Roads. KB is moving south along the Australian coast, looking for shippping to sink (I would have done this earlier rather than hang around the Coral Sea, but I needed to have AO support first). I have troops prepping for quick moves on Luganville and Noumea, which I plan shortly. Port Hedland will be landed on shortly. All of this is to sell an Australia attack.

Critical question for the gallery: With all the patches and changes, is Darwin truly borked for supply purposes?

DD Raiders near Japan: Those DDs off Japan headed WEST, toward the PI. That's pretty aggressive! They are under observation. I switched planes to Nav Search if they go try and get fuel in the PI (which is what I think they are attempting), or if they turn back I flew some spare Vals out to Chichi Jima. We'll see where they go.

Carriers: I have KB split, with HIRYU, RYUJO, ZUIHO, TAIYO operating off the North Coast of OZ, and the rest off the east coast. Baby KB can take on 2 USN CVs today, IF I stay close to home. It is not yet possible for him to have 4 CVs in the Indian Ocean, but by Feb 1, let's say, it's possible.

So, I will probably merge KB shortly. SORYU is under repair at Hiroshima from that Dutch Torp hit, but is due to finish in 10 days. HOSHO is repairing at Saigon from another torp hit, and will be complete in 20 days. SHOHO hits the water in a few more days. This should be plenty to wipe out whatever I find in the Indian Ocean.

Clark Field: Yesterday's attack was 1-2, but dropped the forts to ZERO. I will keep bombing the airstrip to prevent those from being rebuilt, and try again in a few days when we are rested. If that attack is 1-2, I will probably give up on the PI for now; I will need those troops for India.

[image]local://upfiles/6931/C18884F22E684FB28B43222348F79B89.jpg[/image]



Nemo121 -> RE: Illinois Yankee in Showa Court (Q-Ball v Canoe) (7/27/2010 7:48:41 PM)

Darwin can subsist without seaborne supplies but it may be difficult to get above 20,000 tons without supply draw being used by the Allies. Overall though it isn't a base you actually need to take. But each plan requires different compromises. Interesting game.


What do you make of Canoerebel's use of DDs and raiding? I've found it highly effective in the past and it seems like you are losing ships to it also.


Also, those 1,000 ton xAKLs are GREAT amphibious ships once the amphib bonus is over... If you want to keep invading or counter-invading after April 1942 I'd try to guard them if I were you.



Jaroen -> RE: Illinois Yankee in Showa Court (Q-Ball v Canoe) (7/28/2010 12:09:32 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Q-Ball

Combat Report, Jan 12, 1942:


Critical question for the gallery: With all the patches and changes, is Darwin truly borked for supply purposes?




Q-Ball, I won't say I really know how supply lines are working with the latest patches but in my game against the AI as the allies I managed to supply Darwin by land lines only. This was only 1 patch before the newest. You do it by shifting the maximum supply demand one base at a time. Every time you do receive the max supply the next base is selected. Of course every other base should be set to receiving no extra supply.

In Australia it means creating a supply route from Sydney to Port Augusta to Palm Springs first. You set those bases to receive maximum supply one after the other and stop all extra supply to other bases. When Palm Springs receives the maximum you next set Katherine to receive the max or Darwin itself and stop Palm Springs. After some time (a few days) all that supply will appear in Katherine/Darwin. I'm only explaining this here to help others, assuming you know it already?![8D]

I'd say it's highly likely this method will work for CR if he wants it and/or thinks of it.

Personally I was somewhat hesitating using this method because it requires some close supply management of a lot of bases and I felt the game system should take care of it. This method works everywhere in every country including China. It is the best way of directing supply very precisely but requires some careful management which is time consuming. I think we alreay feel this should work using the supply demand toggle but don't like the care involved to actuate it. I was pushed in doing it after reading a post by Nemo in which he advocated doing it and because of the dire supply conditions at Darwin.

Regarding your overall strategy I'd say to focus on your primary goal to score as many VP's as possible and let that be your guiding principle. And have a lot of fun of course! your India strategy will offer it all I guess.

BTW: did you know that the AI really builds up a strong defense on Timor?
It made me wonder whether Andy Mac created this build-up after or before your quick strike north from Oz in your game against Cuttlefish???

Good luck Rebel hunting! [;)]

PS: Am just reading the Nemo message about the same Darwin issue. Missed it in my hasty reply to your question.



Q-Ball -> RE: Illinois Yankee in Showa Court (Q-Ball v Canoe) (7/28/2010 4:51:43 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Nemo121
What do you make of Canoerebel's use of DDs and raiding? I've found it highly effective in the past and it seems like you are losing ships to it also.

Also, those 1,000 ton xAKLs are GREAT amphibious ships once the amphib bonus is over... If you want to keep invading or counter-invading after April 1942 I'd try to guard them if I were you.


RE: DD raids, they are irritating, and you do have to account for that possibility. I refuse to revise any strategic plans, though, for a few DDs. At this moment, I do have spare surface ships and air units (probably the only point in the game), so I hope to extract some losses and make it look like an expensive strategy. Of course, as Japan I can do the same thing later, but a) the Allies can afford DD losses, I can't really, and b) my "throw away" DDs have really short legs.

I have suffered losses, which isn't good, but nothing strategic. Japan has plenty of AK capacity at start.

RE: Transports, the xAKLs can't convert to troop capacity, so they hold VERY few troops and unload them slower from cargo. They are also very slow ships. My personal preference are the 3000-ton Toho and Ansyu-C classes; they are small, can convert to carry 1100 troops, and can make 14kts. In June, alot of the large xAKs convert to AKs, so although they are big, they do a nice job unloading after the conversion. They are also fast (14-18kts, depending on class).

Combat Report, Jan 13-14, 1942:

Burma: The Allies appear to be evacuating Pegu. There are still troops in Rangoon, though, so I hope to cut them off.

My invasion of Burma is only 1 1/2 divisions at this point; I am being very lackidasical. I hope the Burma Army loiters in Burma long enough to be trapped; but regardless, I expect Burma to be evacuated once I am landing in India anyway.

Malaya: My armored spearheads have reached Johore Bharu, just accross from Singapore. Their attack on the 2 Aus Bdes there was repulsed, but it's a matter of time. I should have Singapore just as soon as I can cross the strait, given all the losses the Allies have suffered already here.

The Fall of Sinagpore will be a critical event; this will free up several divisions. I am already assembling troop lift capacity, and plan to quickly move on Ceylon as soon as I can get things organized.

Broome: This base fell; I have search planes operating from it.

Java: Bandoeng fell, cutting the island in half, and KNIL also. I don't have enough troops to clear either Batavia or Soerbaya out, but I plan to clear bases and create space, while awaiting reinforcements. I have a unit marching on Tjitilap. My total forces on Java are 21st Mixed Bde, 41st Inf Regt, and 1/3 of the 124th Regt. That's it.

I'll probably need a couple divisions from Phillipines temporarily to really tip Java over. The Dutch get stronger the longer you wait, so it's worth a 2-3 week diversion to get this cleared out.

KB: I sailed down the Australian coast a bit, and will break toward Noumea; Dan knows the KB is in the Coral Sea, however, so I mostly just expect to scout Noumea and see if it's reinforced. If not, we'll land some troops there.

Dan is too smart to take on KB, so the main purpose now is to scare away any intervention from my landings in the SW Pacific. That's all I can accomplish with it, before Phase 2, when I will need some support in the Bay of Bengal.

REVENGE!: Vals out of Chichi-Jima found that DD TF sailing around the Volcano Islands; JARVIS was pounded and sank, and another DD took 2 bomb hits and caught fire. These Vals were from SORYU, I flew them out there while she repairs as they didn't have another mission at present. (SORYU should be complete in about 10 days).

Hopefully Dan starts to think twice about the DD raiders; that TF accomplished nothing, other than getting a DD sunk.



Q-Ball -> RE: Illinois Yankee in Showa Court (Q-Ball v Canoe) (7/28/2010 7:21:15 PM)

Combat Report, Jan 15, 1942:

Finally!: Wake falls; I made a hash of the initial landing, by not checking supply levels before ordering an attack, wrecking the original landing troops. I sent 2 more Nav Gd units, supported by 2 IJN BBs (ISE and HYUGA); the BBs bombarded the base, and the troops finished them off.

I had to wait for this rescue until I didn't need the BBs anymore in the DEI. My fear was that USN CVs would pop up JUST then, so I had a couple picket ships to the east. I thought it was worth the risk, since I knew I could get in quick.

Diverting the ships was no big deal, it was the Nav Gd I need elsewhere. Anyway, we can now get on with the war.

Battle of Arafura Sea: The TF built around DE RUYTER was hanging in the Arafura Sea; I set a BB TF built around YAMASHIRO and FUSO on an intercept course. They met in a day action in the Arafura sea.

The Allied TF didn't do badly; YAMASHIRO took about 40 pts of damage, NONE of it major though, but enough that she will need a trip to the yard. DE RUYTER and 3 DDs were sunk on the Allied side, pretty much wiping that TF out, save for a damaged DD.

Dan had some shipping caught around Darwin when I closed the Torres Strait and Timor, including these guys, but all those ships are pretty much toast now.

Port Hedland: Troops will land at this base tommorow, and it should fall easily.

Even Blind Squirrels Find a nut once in a while: For the first time in the game, a Dutch bomber hit one of my ships, an xAP parked off Kalidjati. Damage was in the single-digits. But hey, one out of about 150 isn't bad! That unit should be called "The Blind Squirrels".

Seriously, I have learned to simply ignore Allied medium bombers in the DEI. There is hardly a need to CAP the ships. The Stringbags and Vildebeests are another story, but I shot most of those down the first days of the war. In my game against Cuttlefish, I think I hit RYUJO with a Dutch bomber, but I spent the first two months of the war training all Dutch on NAV ATTACK, and it still didn't do much. Allied bombers attacking BBs are especially a joke; ANY hit will bounce, and the bomber is exposed to AA fire.



Q-Ball -> RE: Illinois Yankee in Showa Court (Q-Ball v Canoe) (7/29/2010 3:34:08 AM)

Combat Report, Jan 16, 1942:

VACATION: Imperial Headquarters will cease transmission for a week, as I am packing up the family for a little Vacation time. We will set the family unit to Rest/Train, and load the car in Transport mode. Couple last turns tommorow

Torres Strait Clean-Up: One DD escaped the combat yesterday: BANCKERT. We intercepted her with 2 cruisers, setting her on fire, and a RO-Boat finished her off. It's only a Dutch DD, but need to sink all the warships I can.

Johore Bharu Falls: The last Australian Bde was attacked and sent retreating accross the causeway. Many troops will unload via train in two days, then we will walk accross the strait. I expect Singapore to fall very quickly, given all the losses further up.

Clark Field: Attack tommorow; forts are at Zero, I have been bombing the strip to keep from building trenches. Hopefully it goes well tommorow.

China: We are marching on Nanning, the last city in that Central Plain area. Hopefully we clear it.



Chickenboy -> RE: Illinois Yankee in Showa Court (Q-Ball v Canoe) (7/29/2010 6:40:52 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Q-Ball

Combat Report, Jan 16, 1942:

VACATION: Imperial Headquarters will cease transmission for a week, as I am packing up the family for a little Vacation time. We will set the family unit to Rest/Train, and load the car in Transport mode. Couple last turns tommorow

Torres Strait Clean-Up: One DD escaped the combat yesterday: BANCKERT. We intercepted her with 2 cruisers, setting her on fire, and a RO-Boat finished her off. It's only a Dutch DD, but need to sink all the warships I can.

Johore Bharu Falls: The last Australian Bde was attacked and sent retreating accross the causeway. Many troops will unload via train in two days, then we will walk accross the strait. I expect Singapore to fall very quickly, given all the losses further up.

Clark Field: Attack tommorow; forts are at Zero, I have been bombing the strip to keep from building trenches. Hopefully it goes well tommorow.

China: We are marching on Nanning, the last city in that Central Plain area. Hopefully we clear it.

Strongly recommend against loading the car in transport mode, Q-ball. Amphibious mode will be much more practical for you, as transport takes *way* too long.




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