RE: Road to Leningrad AAR (for Beginners) (Full Version)

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SGHunt -> RE: Road to Leningrad AAR (for Beginners) (8/6/2010 10:42:51 PM)

Turn 2 - a more circumspect armour advance ensures close contact with the infantry and sets up a couple of small pockets.

[image]local://upfiles/33891/4D8ADBFFCAE343C39B9301410D0F5675.jpg[/image]



SGHunt -> RE: Road to Leningrad AAR (for Beginners) (8/6/2010 10:45:39 PM)

Turn 3 with the rear and communications secure, the armour again leaps forward:


[image]local://upfiles/33891/A6AA2782A1C241D18E85999CE8EC303B.jpg[/image]



SGHunt -> RE: Road to Leningrad AAR (for Beginners) (8/6/2010 10:49:39 PM)

Pskov not a good bet for a coup de main this time around, so I go around it and also unhinge the Narva line. These lightning strikes completely undo the Russian defences.

[image]local://upfiles/33891/740A3CDFC0D34F88A6BA806C0224A481.jpg[/image]



SGHunt -> RE: Road to Leningrad AAR (for Beginners) (8/6/2010 10:54:11 PM)

Turn 5 - the defence hardens a bit SW of Ilmen but the road to Leningrad is wide open

[image]local://upfiles/33891/C608049451094C6DB9C5B62CE664C9F4.jpg[/image]



SGHunt -> RE: Road to Leningrad AAR (for Beginners) (8/6/2010 10:55:30 PM)

Meanwhile the Finns have been getting busy too

[image]local://upfiles/33891/D32D7C0B3159452CB03080EEC9156056.jpg[/image]



SGHunt -> RE: Road to Leningrad AAR (for Beginners) (8/6/2010 10:58:43 PM)

Turn 6: did I say the door was open? I discover the Russians have been hoarding their reserves and have created a defence from Novgorod to the sea. I need infantry support...


[image]local://upfiles/33891/E4B731AEAB8C45CA8CF6A72F7D25A85E.jpg[/image]



SGHunt -> RE: Road to Leningrad AAR (for Beginners) (8/6/2010 11:01:25 PM)

Turn 7 and the door is kicked down flat with a massive combined arms general assault - the routed units bear witness to their lack of training and morale.

[image]local://upfiles/33891/C0F40ECB185442F7A4A99366997B2743.jpg[/image]



Northern Star -> RE: Road to Leningrad AAR (for Beginners) (8/6/2010 11:04:07 PM)

Very interesting AAR, Stuart! [:)]
Can you post the losses, especially air losses?



SGHunt -> RE: Road to Leningrad AAR (for Beginners) (8/6/2010 11:04:44 PM)

Ooops! I'm pretty sure my turn 7 was really turn 8. So it took two turns to demolish the Luga line.

Air losses turn 8 -I'll take those ratios I think. I have used the auto recon and auto bomb airfield functions. they work for me just now.

[image]local://upfiles/33891/1D44C693BCC3419592217B86D71456FB.jpg[/image]



SGHunt -> RE: Road to Leningrad AAR (for Beginners) (8/6/2010 11:11:29 PM)

Ground losses Turn 8

[image]local://upfiles/33891/472D38A3BD194A3D8E1C8F1BE2D26075.jpg[/image]



SGHunt -> RE: Road to Leningrad AAR (for Beginners) (8/6/2010 11:15:08 PM)

Early into turn 10 and it's all over bar the clean up:


[image]local://upfiles/33891/7CAB5B2CEEDB47F39CBF3FD7BE1CA336.jpg[/image]



Northern Star -> RE: Road to Leningrad AAR (for Beginners) (8/6/2010 11:15:38 PM)

Don't use the auto bomb airfield function, it's not very efficient. You can try to make experiments with air doctrine and do this job manually, in this case you can even try to save some bombers for the only air supply mission allowed prior to any other mission.



SGHunt -> RE: Road to Leningrad AAR (for Beginners) (8/6/2010 11:18:02 PM)

Turn 11 and the Finns have surged through and I would be able to release the two PZ Corps and perhaps a whole Infantry army for the heavy work around Moscow.

[image]local://upfiles/33891/FA2CDF69FAA64122AF8671870945219C.jpg[/image]



SGHunt -> RE: Road to Leningrad AAR (for Beginners) (8/6/2010 11:19:49 PM)

Turn 12 and the the Russians discomfiture is complete.



[image]local://upfiles/33891/836611F135094186BCBC3C004A21580C.jpg[/image]



SGHunt -> RE: Road to Leningrad AAR (for Beginners) (8/6/2010 11:21:41 PM)

Losses


[image]local://upfiles/33891/A237FF8F2FC540CCAD8CD73BAFA34A40.jpg[/image]



SGHunt -> RE: Road to Leningrad AAR (for Beginners) (8/6/2010 11:22:48 PM)

Air losses


[image]local://upfiles/33891/10371B5DD6B8447EB07BCFFA8AD713BF.jpg[/image]



SGHunt -> RE: Road to Leningrad AAR (for Beginners) (8/6/2010 11:30:39 PM)

Love the game.  [:)]

This is a great learning scenario and is better balanced this time, but still quite an easy win.   Play it on Normal once is my advice, to learn.  I think the points I made in Trey AAR are extremely valid for these short scenarios:  'I note the point about playing your units to exhaustion, and, from my experience playing RtL, I would add supply, combat and mechanical losses, and even weak flanks, to the list of things you can ignore as well.   It means you can fire off everything you've got in order to 'win' and never mind the strategic position or the state of your troops at game end.'   Having to husband your forces to withstand the counter attacks will really stretch me. 


I shall try Barbarossa next on Difficult, and expect to have a much tougher time of it.   I also need to learn much more of the guts of the thing, air doctrine, commanders report etc etc.

I have weeks holiday from tonight and I am taking the laptop! [8D]



lbadal99 -> RE: Road to Leningrad AAR (for Beginners) (8/25/2010 4:22:25 AM)

Can someone comment on the losses on the air losses screen - specifically around operational losses and flak losses - I assum operational losses are air combat and flak losses are losses to flak/ground fire?

Are the other losses from airbases being overun or bombed?

Len



jaw -> RE: Road to Leningrad AAR (for Beginners) (8/25/2010 1:00:02 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: lbadal99

Can someone comment on the losses on the air losses screen - specifically around operational losses and flak losses - I assum operational losses are air combat and flak losses are losses to flak/ground fire?

Are the other losses from airbases being overun or bombed?



Here's the exact rules section from the latest version to the manual:

"-- Air Losses: The left side of the screen lists permanent losses by individual aircraft make and model, for example JU-88A, displayed in the following columns:
- Individual Aircraft type
- Permanent Losses
-- Battle just conducted (any action taken after a battle will reset this column to zero)
-- Losses during the current turn
-- Total losses during the game
The right side of the screen lists losses by aircraft type, for example Fighter, and further breaks down the reason for the aircraft loss as follows:
- Recent Battle and non-combat casualties. This includes aircraft destroyed or damaged by combat in the most recent combat or attritional losses determined during the preceding logistics phase. This column is reset to zero by any action taken after the most recent battle or at the start of the phasing player’s action phase.
- Permanent Losses
-- Losses during the current turn
-- Total losses during the game. There are two additional rows under the total column that list the overall number of aircraft lost due to anti-aircraft fire or non-combat operational losses. These totals are a subset of the total losses, not separate losses."



SGHunt -> RE: Road to Leningrad AAR (for Beginners) (8/26/2010 11:31:08 PM)

Just a quick post to report back for any of you who, having read the above AAR's, are concerned that the game may be too easy! I am currently playing Barbarossa as the Germans, and felt things were going quite well....

Week 4 (10th July): My armour is currently overextended around Smolensk, which I cannot storm and which I have failed to surround completely, my flanks are threatened by large numbers of enemy units with massive Russian armour reserves, in deep echelon, and my supply lines and aircraft re-supply seems to have broken down. This last is the biggest concern. Here's a wee screenie to give you an idea.



I am slowly learning the wonderful intricacies, and internal patterns and links of the game, it is both fascinating and it makes my head hurt. [;)]

[image]local://upfiles/33891/C95E00F020444628AB0E3A4425C314A1.jpg[/image]



Great_Ajax -> RE: Road to Leningrad AAR (for Beginners) (8/27/2010 1:07:20 PM)

After clearing out Smolensk, you could try to nab that large group of troops southwest of the city. Bust a hole straight south of Smolensk and then swing west towards Mogilev. That would net you a good 20+ divisions. If I was the Russians, I would send that armoured reserve from the bend of the Dnepr around Orsha and towards Vitebsk to try to jack up your supply situation which is already gettng critical I bet.

Trey



karonagames -> RE: Road to Leningrad AAR (for Beginners) (8/27/2010 1:45:10 PM)

It will be interesting to see the situation after the AI turn. GAIA has shown she can see the threat, and I think there is a good chance she will pull back from the river bend and Mogilev. I have also seen her take those Mech divisions and attack the flanks.

I agree with Trey, as a Human SU player the GE are open to having their supply lines severely messed with. That gap in front of the Para unit on the river bend is very tempting.



SGHunt -> RE: Road to Leningrad AAR (for Beginners) (8/27/2010 2:17:59 PM)

Yes, Trey, a good plan if it is possible, and it's one of the possibilities I am considering.   The other idea in my mind is to link up with AGN, create a large pocket North of Vitebsk, then create a massive panzer army (ie all three Pz Groups), leave Leningrad for the 18th army and drive all out for Moscow.  

As for the Russian counter, again your idea is sound, but I do have very powerful infantry reserves coming up (the whole of 4th Army, plus the smaller 2nd, and another fresh Corps of the 9th) - any serious incursion by the Russians, whilst disruptive of my supply, would likely create a huge pocket and the loss the armoured reserves. 

However, this is all so much fluff - my men can fight hungry ([;)]), but they cannot fight without bullets and the tanks cannot roll without fuel!    Where are those damned supply columns?    And this before the partisans have awakened!!!   Another quartermaster for the gallows, methinks.   Oh, err ... is that me?

Anyway, this must wait for another AAR, I fear.   I just wanted to let everyone know how tough (and stimulating) this game is....  I think about it as I go to sleep, when I'm walking the dog etc as all good wargames (and wargamers!) should.   [:)]    And I still haven't played by email yet, which will no doubt take things to another whole level again.   I definitely need to retire early, ideally to some lonely croft on the Scottish borders, get a good broadband connection, and settle down with a goodly supply of Lagavulin and porridge, to get to grips with this thing.   Should only take me a couple of years to catch up with Jon, Andy, Trey etc





ComradeP -> RE: Road to Leningrad AAR (for Beginners) (8/29/2010 5:19:48 PM)

Stuart, how did the AI eventually respond to your moves towards Smolensk/Vyazma? Did it try to cut off your supply lines or did its frontline retreat/fold?



Noakesy -> RE: Road to Leningrad AAR (for Beginners) (8/31/2010 12:11:05 PM)

Interesting, but looks similar to TOAW as far as I can see (counters style, and the obsession with knowing how many men, aircraft and vehicles were lost in the last battle, although presumably commas will be added nearer the time so 100000 becomes 100,000 or similar as that would be clearer if you are going to retain these stats). Map is nice.

I know there are gamers who have no interest what a game looks like on a pc screen as the mechanics are the most important. I believe that the mechanics are more important than the look and feel, but the look and feel are still a key part of the overall package. This 'looks' old (whilst accepting that a 'retro' feel may be something you are setting out to achieve).



ComradeP -> RE: Road to Leningrad AAR (for Beginners) (8/31/2010 1:48:50 PM)

Well Andrew, like the SSG games we love to play, it's basically a boardgame on the PC. One of the nicer features of SSG games are the divisional insignia that are part of the actual counter, which makes it very easy to identify divisions/regiments at a glance. That's one thing I might miss, but all it takes is some getting used to. As long as the interface is good, and it seems to be, I don't really mind the boardgame look.

As an aside, let me know if you want to restart our Stalingrad game or not.



SGHunt -> RE: Road to Leningrad AAR (for Beginners) (8/31/2010 3:43:22 PM)

Pieter (sorry for not getting back to you sooner - I've been on tour with my cricket team)

The AI pulled out of the emerging pocket NW of Vitebsk, held the Dnepr, but withdraw most of that armour I was worried about.   Land for time...

I think the interface is good but it does take some time to get used to it - moving between screens and 'modes'.  

But, it's good, Noaksey.   I am not a statistics nutter (no offence to any who are!) but the numbers matter in this game - no step losses, but a gradual wearing down (and building back up) of men, machines, morale, fatigue, supplies, fuel, and ammunition.    I know you like the SSG Kharkov game - I do too - but I think this is more challenging.  I got sucked into this just as I bought the Across the Dnepr expansion and haven't started that yet, as my obsession with this game has grown.  

I agree about the Divisional insignia - they are very pretty in the Kharkov game.  But, as Divisions don't break down into the same level of detail in WitE (indeed for the Russians, they don't break down at all), it's really not a great loss.  It's very easy to track units in the same Corps.

Stuart



ComradeP -> RE: Road to Leningrad AAR (for Beginners) (8/31/2010 9:04:59 PM)

quote:

Pieter (sorry for not getting back to you sooner - I've been on tour with my cricket team)


No problem Stuart, I hope you and your team had a good tour. I tried to watch a test game between England and Pakistan and understand what was happening, but the game's a bit too confusing for us continentals. I mostly saw bearded and non-bearded blokes throwing, hitting and catching balls. I was surprised (some of) the field men don't wear gloves, it can't be comfortable to have the ball hit your hand at high speed. At least with baseball, the ball's travelling time takes some of the speed away, but it seemed like the ball was still at a decent speed when some guys tried to catch it.

quote:

I agree about the Divisional insignia - they are very pretty in the Kharkov game. But, as Divisions don't break down into the same level of detail in WitE (indeed for the Russians, they don't break down at all), it's really not a great loss. It's very easy to track units in the same Corps.


I guess the commander's report already helps a lot. The divisional insignia are mostly a great tool for quick unit identification (they also look nice, of course, but that's not their primary function).



Noakesy -> RE: Road to Leningrad AAR (for Beginners) (9/1/2010 8:36:28 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: von Jaeger
But, it's good, Noaksey.   I am not a statistics nutter (no offence to any who are!) but the numbers matter in this game - no step losses, but a gradual wearing down (and building back up) of men, machines, morale, fatigue, supplies, fuel, and ammunition.    I know you like the SSG Kharkov game - I do too - but I think this is more challenging.  I got sucked into this just as I bought the Across the Dnepr expansion and haven't started that yet, as my obsession with this game has grown.  


Well it's probably just down to personal taste really. It wasn't purely the divisional insignia, but there are other things that just look good on the SSG games although it's hard to put my finger on them. I buy these types of games because they have a boardgame feel to them, but that doesn't mean the designers can't take some neat touches to make things look better. The SSG games look like they are designed by an artist, no offence but this one looks like it has been designed by a wargamer [;)][:)].

Before I bought the SSG games I used to struggle to get on with TOAW and its successors, but never liked the look of it, and got bored by the constant stats being thrown at you. I'm sure that WitE is something I would buy, as I love the operational East Front perspective (whatever happened to Road to Moscow [:D]), I just wanted to chip in to say what in my humble opinion would make it even better.



lbadal99 -> RE: Road to Leningrad AAR (for Beginners) (9/3/2010 11:11:42 PM)

I would say SSG games were designed well with the "art" look, but this game really looks well done and it seems to be very accurate in the statistics.  [&o]

Can one of you show me on what you are talking about on divisional insignia? If it is what I think, that would be awesome, especially showing the SS unit insignias. [:D] 

Also I have the same question - what happened to Road to Moscow? [&:] 

   



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