RE: Addon Discussion (Full Version)

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Baleur -> RE: Addon Discussion (8/16/2010 7:22:35 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Shark7

When it comes to Ring Worlds and Dyson Spheres, I'm not so much in support of the player or AI being able to build them...

However, if there were ruins that the player or AI could find, repair and re-inhabit, then I could support it. Ancient technology that is only now being rediscovered etc.


Indeed, that could make it easy to limit it too. Like say only having 1 ring world or dyson sphere in the entire galaxy.
There'd have to be some sort of more elaborate random generation though, like the surrounding 2 light years being somehow "hard to cross", perhaps nebulae that slow the ships or vastly increases the fuel it requires to cross. Or simply only requiring the player to have max tech in a few tech trees in order to even attempt to colonize / repair it :)



WoodMan -> RE: Addon Discussion (8/16/2010 12:10:45 PM)

Well a ringworld would be a population centre, that still grows at the normal population rate, I think as long as its at the end of the tech tree it would be fine to build.  I think it should take so long to build and research that you will probably never have more than one or two in a normal game anyway.  Certainly no need to have the area around it hard to get through, because then it would be pointless once aquired because everything going to it would be slowed down.  The Devastation Moon is a weapon capable of wiping out most enemies easily, a Ringworld would simply be like a colony with a higher potential in the long run, no need to make it harder to find/build than a Devastation Moon.



Fideach -> RE: Addon Discussion (8/16/2010 12:12:35 PM)

For any add on; I would definitely think it would add to the game to have a tagging system as someone else previously mentioned. As well as the ability to assign "missions" to fleets and such. I would love to be able to form fleets, station them around there home worlds and if anything comes up be able to just assign a mission to handle something for me with out having to micromanage it. Be it to just patrol and defend a system, or a group of systems, or keep pirates and other enemies out of a select system.
I've been creating fleets and assigning them to trade hubs. Be nice if they would auto respond to threats in there area or systems directly linked to the trade hub they are stations at. Or if I tag a system for an attack, my nearest fleet assigned for Offense would auto prepare and attack the system. Do what I assigned, go back, repair, refuel and wait for my next order.



Shark7 -> RE: Addon Discussion (8/16/2010 4:19:20 PM)

What could prove even more interesting if said ring worlds were used as a system of 'jump gates' or 'wormhole generators' that would allow almost instant travel from one point on the map to the others. Fighting over control of them would then be a very strategic necessity. A system of 5-7 would be sufficient to cover the DW map, say 1 in the dead center and 1 in each corner, etc. Of course they would need to be in different places each game, but you see where this is going...

The Boskara are on the other side of the galaxy from me. They are billigerent, disgusting bugs with poor hygiene and even poorer manners. I have discovered a pair of jump gates that will cut the travel time for my fleet from months or even years to a matter of days or weeks. I send a prelimary force through the gate to secure both jump points, gather my assault fleet and kindly inform the Boskara that they will pay for their crudeness. Shortly thereafter, my large attack force arrives at their homeworld and procedes to glass the surface of it, before slipping back through the gate to safety.

Just an example, but you can see the possibilities. [:D]



WoodMan -> RE: Addon Discussion (8/16/2010 4:48:47 PM)

An idea I had sometimes ago, to make the galaxy seem slightly bigger.  At the centre (at least on Spiral this would work anyway) a Super Massive Blackhole.  You can't fly through this and have to go around, increasing journey length, artificially making the galaxy seem bigger.



gijas17 -> RE: Addon Discussion (8/16/2010 5:45:16 PM)

I agree with this review. I've only played a few missions into the western desert campaign but the game is engaging if a bit simple. Coming from those games junk2drive mentioned like panzer command and combat missions this game seems like a lite version of those but its still fun and more personal since you have a comical plot that goes along with each mission. I would not go as far to say that this is more for kiddies since some missions can be hard even on easy difficulty that require as junk2drive suggested tactics that usually only more mature players understand but its not by no means a simulation. I still think panzer command is my favorite wwII game here on Matrix and with all that game offers including a mission generator and map editor its really ahead of this game as far as replay goes but it does not have the multiplayer aspect as Battlefield Academy has. Achtung Panzer is one that has recently come out and I enjoy along with this game but there are differences (pros and cons) with each game.



gijas17 -> RE: Addon Discussion (8/16/2010 5:48:21 PM)

ops, wrong forum. sorrry guys.



Brainsucker -> RE: Addon Discussion (8/17/2010 3:16:05 AM)

Well, I surprise to see that the ring world that we discuss is a kind of giant man made world that surround the star system. I thought it just a small ring world that surround a planet.

Rather than that gigantic ringworld, what about a floating colony? just like in the japanese animation series Gundam? It is smaller, surround a planet and has limited population. It can be used to conquer a star system that hasn't any habitable planet. A more tactical choice for this game.




Shark7 -> RE: Addon Discussion (8/17/2010 6:24:00 AM)

I don't think anyone is advocating a huge ring that can surround a planet, much less a system. I think the consensus here is for a Halo-like ring world. Something that is more moon size at most, would have a limited population, and could further act as a very large battle station or have some other function such as a jump gate.

At some point things just get to be too big to be reasonably believable.



adecoy95 -> RE: Addon Discussion (8/17/2010 7:51:16 AM)

[image]http://bargainbin4u.files.wordpress.com/2008/07/ringworld.jpg[/image]

ring-worlds are cool and all, but i would be as happy with orbital habitats



tornnight -> RE: Addon Discussion (8/18/2010 2:10:11 AM)

I stand by my opinion that ring worlds and dyson spheres are ridiculously impractical.

Even if you had an army of nanobots constructing one it would likely take many thousands of years to construct or longer. And for what benefit over just teraforming a barren world?

The argument that regular worlds will be considered preserves is silly when you think of the number of barren worlds out there.



Brainsucker -> RE: Addon Discussion (8/18/2010 2:34:58 AM)

Just look this idea from the game play perspective.

If, the Ring World is a colony that surround a planet and has a limited population, then it is a good idea to implemented in the game.

I too like the terraforming idea to make the game more exciting. Just imagine if the players keep changing the nature of a planet that they have taken from the enemy.

The problem is that these two ideas have a very little effect to the gameplay when you have another races who could stay in the different type of planets. What is the purpose of these technologies then?

I think the developer should nerved down the capability to get bonus from the minor races when the players get them in the game. It will make the colony technology and any other expansion ideas useless.

By limit the expansion to the dominant species world type planets only, you could make the colonization technology more useful. Plus, you can nerve down the economic boom in the late game era. By this nerfed down, Terraforming and Ring World planet technologies will be useful in the game.Because people will seek new methods for their next expansion plan.




Wade1000 -> RE: Addon Discussion (8/18/2010 6:10:24 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: tornnight

I stand by my opinion that ring worlds and dyson spheres are ridiculously impractical.

Even if you had an army of nanobots constructing one it would likely take many thousands of years to construct or longer. And for what benefit over just teraforming a barren world?

The argument that regular worlds will be considered preserves is silly when you think of the number of barren worlds out there.

Okay; but don't underestimate the word "exponential". Exponentially self replicating nanites in conjunction with energy to matter conversion, using the star, and teleporter technology...maybe even some method we can't yet imagine.

Ringworlds and Sphereworlds(Dyson Spheres) SURROUND a star, not a planet.
Orbital habitats (Rings or Spheres) ORBIT a star and typically(in stories) have a diameter of several Earths and "a surface area of between 20 and 120 times that of the Earth (but comprising significanly less mass)."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Orbital_(The_Culture)


[image]local://upfiles/33168/045F954413ED4A1682AEAA4C59A03218.jpg[/image]
quote:

Orbital illustration



Wade1000 -> RE: Addon Discussion (8/18/2010 6:10:48 AM)

(image)

[image]local://upfiles/33168/291A59A47ADA4E91A76AE032CE5DE91A.jpg[/image]
quote:

View of the interior of the ring, showing side walls retaining the atmosphere.

ORBITAL.

A RINGWORLD would look similiar. A Ringworlds's arc into the sky would appear as a hazy line that thinned out and vanishes around the star. At night(shade/solar collecter rectangles) would be vaguely seen strait up while a slight stem would seem to be on the horizen. It would look like an arch other the world with maybe the sun hanging from the top, as described like the barbarin believed in the 'Ringworld' novel.

A SPHEREWORLD(Dysonsphere) might look like there is a hazy dome over the world.




Wade1000 -> RE: Addon Discussion (8/18/2010 6:36:02 AM)

(image)
A RINGWORLD would look similiar. A Ringworlds's arc into the sky would appear as a hazy line that thinned out and vanishes around the star. At night(shade/solar collecter rectangles) would be vaguely seen strait up while a slight stem would seem to be on the horizen. It would look like an arch other the world with maybe the sun hanging from the top, as described like the barbarin believed in the 'Ringworld' novel.

[image]local://upfiles/33168/C803275F93984FAB9BA884A6A629DD63.jpg[/image]



Wade1000 -> RE: Addon Discussion (8/18/2010 6:37:14 AM)

(image)
Ringworld

[image]local://upfiles/33168/C89C3BC30F634CE596442C200B5C6A15.jpg[/image]



Wade1000 -> RE: Addon Discussion (8/18/2010 6:45:53 AM)

(image)
Ringworld

quote:


Ringworld engineering
The "Ringworld" is an artificial ring about one million miles wide and approximately the diameter of Earth's orbit (which makes it about 600 million miles in circumference), encircling a Sol-type star. It rotates, providing an artificial gravity that is 99.2% as strong as Earth's gravity through the action of centrifugal force. Ringworld has a habitable flat inner surface equivalent in area to approximately three million Earth-sized planets. The majority of the surface is land interspersed with shallow, freshwater seas. On opposite sides of the ring are two large deep saltwater oceans, placed in counterbalance to one another. One of the large oceans, known as the "Great Ocean", contains one-to-one maps of all of the inhabited worlds of known space. The "Other Ocean" has many maps of a single world: the Pak Homeworld. Walls 1,000 miles tall along the edges retain the atmosphere. The Ringworld could be regarded as a thin, rotating slice of a Dyson sphere, with which it shares a number of characteristics. Niven himself thinks of the Ringworld as "an intermediate step between Dyson spheres and planets."[5]


-Ringworld has a habitable flat inner surface equivalent in area to approximately three million Earth-sized planets.
-The Ringworld could be regarded as a thin, rotating slice of a Dyson sphere, with which it shares a number of characteristics. Niven himself thinks of the Ringworld as "an intermediate step between Dyson spheres and planets."

(I think of Ships and Orbital habitats as more common intermediate steps between planets and Ringworlds; like in 'The Culture' novels.)
Planets - Ships - Orbitals - Ringworlds - Sphereworlds/Dyson Spheres

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ringworld

[image]local://upfiles/33168/99240300A91C466E9C4026717423F1F8.jpg[/image]



scotten_usa -> RE: Addon Discussion (8/18/2010 2:26:02 PM)

Ringworld books=excellent reading.



Speedy2511 -> RE: Addon Discussion (8/18/2010 2:53:06 PM)

Please make carriers and fighters and bombers!!!!!

Like Wing Commander!

Greetings from Germany
Nico



Webbco -> RE: Addon Discussion (8/18/2010 3:10:43 PM)

Out of all the possibilities, my 3 ideal features in the expansion would be:

1) Planetside interaction. This could be visual representations of colony growth (observing it grow bigger, sim city style) where planet quality can also be visualised and the feeling of a universe with "life" can be seen on a planetary level. Ideally, this could be a platform for an additional expansion of planetside combat which would open up a whole new dimension to the game. This may need to be simplistic, but even still, I would love it!

2) Additional ship designs and components. As stated many times before: carriers, fighters, stealth ships (that have a stronger role in the game e.g. to create and execute ambush attacks etc) could be some examples of new ship designs. Expanding the weapon classes would also be great.

3) Plot expansion/continuation. Would be great to have a bunch of new discoveries regarding the history of the universe etc.



Brainsucker -> RE: Addon Discussion (8/19/2010 4:33:53 PM)

Ok guys, we have already know the Ring World and terraforming world concept. But how to implemented it to the game? Because as far as I know, in DW, when you get certain species who could colonize any kind of planets in the game, you don't need any kind of colonization technology anymore.



Gertjan -> RE: Addon Discussion (8/19/2010 5:28:04 PM)

I think we will get a problem with scales if 1 ringworld = 3 000 000 normal planets.



Shark7 -> RE: Addon Discussion (8/19/2010 5:52:30 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Gertjan

I think we will get a problem with scales if 1 ringworld = 3 000 000 normal planets.


Right, I was working under the assumption of Halo sized ringworlds.



Webbco -> RE: Addon Discussion (9/4/2010 10:30:57 PM)

I feel ready for a bit of an update. How's things going Erik?



profanicus -> RE: Addon Discussion (9/5/2010 12:23:12 AM)

Wow over 2 pages on ring worlds etc, what does this actually add to the game apart from flavour? Not that I am against adding flavour, but 2 pages? :)

I would like characters/heroes; people you can hire and add to your fleets and structures such as Admirals, Scientists, Diplomats, Assassins, Explorers etc.



Baleur -> RE: Addon Discussion (9/5/2010 12:32:22 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: tornnight

I stand by my opinion that ring worlds and dyson spheres are ridiculously impractical.

Even if you had an army of nanobots constructing one it would likely take many thousands of years to construct or longer. And for what benefit over just teraforming a barren world?

The argument that regular worlds will be considered preserves is silly when you think of the number of barren worlds out there.


You're thinking in human timescales. The construction of a ring world or dyson sphere (not the actual solid sphere one, but the millions-of-satellites version), at least the first one, would be an immense undertaking for any civilization no matter how advanced.
Most likely it would be built for the future, as a galactic hub for millions of years to come (who knows, perhaps as a galactic "capital" for an alliance of civilizations working together).

Point is, even if it took a hundred thousand years to construct, it could last for millions, or indefinetly if it is continously maintained and populated. If it's build around a red dwarf, it could potentially last for as long as the red dwarf, too long to even contemplate.

I'm sure every civ would still go about their way, colonizing and terraforming every viable planet they come across.
But a ringworld wouldnt be a substitute, it'd be an incredible project for the future, for the long long term, a safe place to retreat to when the previously mentioned colonies are threatened by their solar system stars reaching the end of their lives.

I doubt there'd be many ringworlds and such out there, i think its more likely that if there is one, there's literally ONE in our entire galaxy, if even that.
Think Mass Effect lore, in terms of a galactic hub (or capital, again) that is so ancient and magnificent that the creators are long since gone, or that it has been build on by several successive civilizations, not completed by just 1 single uber civ. It'd take several uber civs to make :)



Wade1000 -> RE: Addon Discussion (9/5/2010 1:30:41 AM)

For a thought comparison, theorectically speaking and opinionated, an ancient village person that somehow imagined super construction beyond huts, something like modern skyscraper buildings might imagine them taking hundreds of years to construct. He could not imagine all the various tools, robotics, computers, materials, etcetera, that allows them to be built in months or a few years.

His rational might be that his hut took several days to finish thus a skyscraper that can hold thousands of his huts must take hundreds of years to construct.

Some of us could be compared to that ancient village person imagining the construction time of a Ringworld or Sphereworld/Dyson Sphere. Some of us might rationalize, with only our current understanding or closed imagination, that those future constructions must take thousands of years to construct.
I think it could take weeks to months... using sort of future technologies like energy to matter conversion, teleportation, nanites that self replicate exponentionally using the energy to matter conversion and then link themselves and other atoms and mollecules together, etcetera.



WoodMan -> RE: Addon Discussion (9/5/2010 1:49:16 AM)

Well, since its impossible according to the laws of physics for anything with mass to travel at the speed of light (no matter how advanced the civilization that builds the transport), it would have to be one hell of a big cargo ship to get all the stuff there in one go to build it in a month [;)]



adecoy95 -> RE: Addon Discussion (9/6/2010 12:27:27 AM)

features i would like to see in the game:

carriers/fighters/drones

mines

jumpgates

ship design have less restrictions in what you can and cant put on a ship to give a bonus IE, mobile shipyards, stacking countermeasures, colossal sensor arrays.

a race that does not colonize planets (nomads, mobile populations)

an extra weapon or two area effect torpedos, rapid fire extremely short range weapon, a long range hyperspeed disruption weapon.

boarding pods

ground suppression systems on space ports for those of us with the need to quell our rebelling citizens or hostile troops

and of course, more modding support. preferribly one of those spiffy, easy to use document codes that has easy to understand code that easily identified (games like sots and medeval 2 has alot of this)

cant think of anything else right now



Wade1000 -> RE: Addon Discussion (9/6/2010 1:33:07 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: WoodMan

Well, since its impossible according to the laws of physics for anything with mass to travel at the speed of light (no matter how advanced the civilization that builds the transport), it would have to be one hell of a big cargo ship to get all the stuff there in one go to build it in a month [;)]


The star would be used for energy to matter conversion to get unlimited building material: nanites and other molecules and atoms. This is assuming the theorectical technologies. There will be advances in our near and far future that we can not even imagine.

Think more about science fiction advances and maybe possible real life future advances. You did not even seem to take note of some of the advances I mention.



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