RE: Detailed Combat Example (Full Version)

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oldspec4 -> RE: Detailed Combat Example (8/29/2010 1:04:46 PM)

excellent write-up...thanks for doing this.



Blind Sniper -> RE: Detailed Combat Example (8/29/2010 1:25:19 PM)

quote:

excellent write-up...thanks for doing this.


Indeed.
It helped me to understand how some symbols work.

Thanks



Seydlitz69 -> RE: Detailed Combat Example (8/29/2010 1:30:02 PM)

Thx. Great write-up- This explained a lot to me. [sm=00001746.gif]



Barthheart -> RE: Detailed Combat Example (8/29/2010 5:40:41 PM)

Glad you all liked it and it helped some.

Hope you all enjoy the game as much as I do.



Puhis -> RE: Detailed Combat Example (8/29/2010 6:38:49 PM)

So, combat works pretty much like in AT?



dougb -> RE: Detailed Combat Example (8/29/2010 6:40:45 PM)

Just like to chime in with my thanks as well. I'm really enjoying the game so far though I've spent the little time that I've had just tinkering and reading the manual. I think that these examples are tremendously helpful as a few things appear to get only very short explanations in the manual (and some none at all).

Best wishes,

Doug



GFelz -> RE: Detailed Combat Example (8/29/2010 6:54:40 PM)

Excellent post. My first game was Case White as the Poles. Of course I was really uncertain of what I was doing: read everything but its still new. Everything was set for historical. Every turn was tense. I must admit, it was only until the last couple of turns did I realize that I was going to win. Lodz ended up being a smoking ruin for a week or so!

Very tense and your post clearly demonstrates the ability of the game to model combined arms. Thanks



Barthheart -> RE: Detailed Combat Example (8/29/2010 7:10:49 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Puhis

So, combat works pretty much like in AT?


Similar but with reworked values and some routines. [8D]



TPM -> RE: Detailed Combat Example (8/29/2010 7:15:10 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: oldspec4

excellent write-up...thanks for doing this.


Again, thanks...this was really helpful.



sanderz -> RE: Detailed Combat Example (8/29/2010 9:53:10 PM)

thank you

that really helped - several little tips i hadn't noticed


most useful to me was the explanation of the combat stacking info on the combat screen (which i don't think was explained in the manual) - i had been trying for BIG numbers which must have made my combs very inefficient - but if i read you correct attackers should be aiming for a attack stack value of equal or just below the the def stack value

presumably the combat values on the actual units will give you a better idea of the likely combat outcome?

once again thanks

doc



Barthheart -> RE: Detailed Combat Example (8/30/2010 3:20:46 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: sanderz
....
- but if i read you correct attackers should be aiming for a attack stack value of equal or just below the the def stack value


No that's not quite it. The attack stack value is show as "xx/yy" where "xx" is the stacking points of all the attacking units and "yy" is the maximum stacking points before penalty. "xx" increases with each units added to teh attack while the only way to increase "yy" is to attack for more than 2 sides.

The defending stack points doesn't figure into that. BUT if you have more than 100 stack points in a defneding hex it is consideered overstacked and they will suffer more casualties because of it.

You can see if you are over stacking by selecting a hex and looking at the very top line of the main screen, top yellow circle in attached pic. This is the total stack points present in that hex. The lower yellow circle shows the stack points for the top unit in this stack. This is under the "Unit details" tab.

quote:

ORIGINAL: sanderz
presumably the combat values on the actual units will give you a better idea of the likely combat outcome?


This is kind of true. The numbers relate the realative strengths of each unit based on all the factors of that unit, ie supply, integrity, readiness, experience, morale entrenchment. But units with the same numbers would not necessarily fight to a stand off. If an armoured unit fights an infantry unit that has the same number shown on it's counter but that has no AT ability then the armoured unit will probably win out as tanks are devistating against infantry in the open.

quote:

ORIGINAL: sanderz
once again thanks

doc


Your welcome. Just hope that helps out some more.[8D]

[image]local://upfiles/13114/097C1605A0D24CDD9D08E8FDD615A377.jpg[/image]



Josh -> RE: Detailed Combat Example (8/30/2010 8:59:52 AM)

Very much appreciated, thanks Barthheart. [&o]



Blind Sniper -> RE: Detailed Combat Example (8/30/2010 9:29:02 AM)

Question about recon:
Does a low recon value effect on combat outcome?
I mean, less enemy intelligence less effective attack



Hexagon -> RE: Detailed Combat Example (8/30/2010 9:56:13 AM)

Thanks for the minitutorial, i think that this is important to know more about the game for example i know now that a R in unit counter, right side, is refered to recon (same for infantry units with this R in the middle of NATO symbol or means reservist??? i think that is the last option) maybe another good post could refer to units, counters and what mean symbols and unit values [;)]



Barthheart -> RE: Detailed Combat Example (8/30/2010 11:51:05 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Blind Sniper

Question about recon:
Does a low recon value effect on combat outcome?
I mean, less enemy intelligence less effective attack


No it's doesn't affect combat other than you might get a surprised by a larger unit than you thought! [8D]



Barthheart -> RE: Detailed Combat Example (8/30/2010 11:53:11 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Hexagon

Thanks for the minitutorial, i think that this is important to know more about the game for example i know now that a R in unit counter, right side, is refered to recon (same for infantry units with this R in the middle of NATO symbol or means reservist??? i think that is the last option) maybe another good post could refer to units, counters and what mean symbols and unit values [;)]


You're welcome.

Yes the small R in the nato counter means the units contains reserve troops.

I might do a unit description post if I can find the time.



olivier34 -> RE: Detailed Combat Example (8/30/2010 1:03:29 PM)

Thanks for this, I did'nt buy the game allready but I sure will. I like the idea of the zoc value, that you need 4x enemy value to get the control of a hex. Players, I would love to read an AAR and hear about the AI. Is the AI reacting correctly or doing weird things ?



Dennistoun -> RE: Detailed Combat Example (8/30/2010 2:02:17 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Hexagon
maybe another good post could refer to units, counters and what mean symbols and unit values [;)]

I think also that would be nice.



U2 -> RE: Detailed Combat Example (8/31/2010 9:49:46 AM)

Thanks so much for writing this! [:)]



gjbirch -> RE: Detailed Combat Example (8/31/2010 7:00:19 PM)

Many thanks for the write up. I have been playing as the Poles in Case White (like GFelz) and this cleared a few items up for me. Well done! 



tgb -> RE: Detailed Combat Example (9/2/2010 8:48:32 PM)

Thank you.  This does a much better job of explaining combat than the manual.



Blutch -> RE: Detailed Combat Example (9/5/2010 2:46:53 PM)

Great ! Playing in a different scale, I didn t seen some details !

Thanks



parusski -> RE: Detailed Combat Example (9/6/2010 8:13:51 AM)

I think I'll join in this love fest too. YOU should have written the manual. I learned more about the mechanics of the game by following you Detailed Combat Example than I did from the manual or any other post.

You know, you could takes a little time and show us more.....



Topo -> RE: Detailed Combat Example (9/6/2010 2:57:53 PM)

Agree, this is way more useful than the manual, thanks!



rayhughes -> RE: Detailed Combat Example (9/9/2010 10:44:24 PM)

Many many thanks for your helpful post. This is what we need indeed. Any further contributions are most welcome



bairdlander2 -> RE: Detailed Combat Example (9/10/2010 4:42:53 AM)

Right on!I was just going to post,but you have answered my question.Thanks.



Rocko911 -> RE: Detailed Combat Example (9/13/2010 12:49:47 AM)

Anyway we could get this in a pdf? It was very helpfull. Thanks



Krupinski -> RE: Detailed Combat Example (9/26/2010 1:18:45 AM)

a nice addition to the manual !! Thanx a lot! [&o]



cillmhor -> RE: Detailed Combat Example (10/1/2010 8:44:52 AM)

Thank you for the very clear explanation of what happens in combat. I have a couple of other questions relating to combat. When artillery or aircraft attack a stack with multiple units, they don't always appear to do equal damage to each unit. I haven't looked at it systematically yet, and so it may be that on some of the occasions I have seen this, the unit types may have been armoured and infantry and so more or less vulnerable to the type of attack. But I'm almost sure it has also occured for the same unit type. Is damage from artillery and air strikes variable on stacks? Would this be due to some units being dug in, or other factors, or are units targeted individually and so variable results can occur?

Also I have noticed fortifications, urban and heavy forest appear to negate the effects of artillery and air strikes somewhat, but againI may be mistaken here?

And is there an element of fog of war in air strikes and artillery strikes, leading you to believe that more or less damage was done to a unit than actually was?

Also does range come into play for artillery strikes, does an adjacent hex strike do more damage than a strike made from the 2-hex range? And with airstrikes is it modelled that airgroups closer to the target get more time over the target?





Barthheart -> RE: Detailed Combat Example (10/1/2010 4:14:15 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: cillmhor

Thank you for the very clear explanation of what happens in combat. I have a couple of other questions relating to combat. When artillery or aircraft attack a stack with multiple units, they don't always appear to do equal damage to each unit. I haven't looked at it systematically yet, and so it may be that on some of the occasions I have seen this, the unit types may have been armoured and infantry and so more or less vulnerable to the type of attack. But I'm almost sure it has also occured for the same unit type. Is damage from artillery and air strikes variable on stacks? Would this be due to some units being dug in, or other factors, or are units targeted individually and so variable results can occur?


Glad I could help out.

Yes each unit will probably be affected by bombardments differently based on their entrenchment values. Also different types of bombardments affect different type if troops more or less. Ie He-111, Do-217 and JU-88's are more effective against soft troops and structures, while JU-87's have more effect on guns and vehicles.

quote:


Also I have noticed fortifications, urban and heavy forest appear to negate the effects of artillery and air strikes somewhat, but againI may be mistaken here?


Yes these types of terrain reduce the affects of bombardment. So try to use level bombers to destroy fortifications before arty strikes to damage the unit.

quote:


And is there an element of fog of war in air strikes and artillery strikes, leading you to believe that more or less damage was done to a unit than actually was?


No you get a true value of the damage done.

quote:


Also does range come into play for artillery strikes, does an adjacent hex strike do more damage than a strike made from the 2-hex range? And with airstrikes is it modelled that airgroups closer to the target get more time over the target?


No for arty but yes as you describe for air strikes.



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