A better GUI, - please look Vic (Full Version)

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BodyBag -> A better GUI, - please look Vic (9/9/2010 10:13:26 AM)

Love the game, but there is a couple of issues that makes things harder for the player than it should be.

1. Range: Other games has units that automaticly shows their movement-range (shaded) when you click on them,- here you have to click on the unit, then on the movement-button, and then remember to click on the cancel-button, if you were just checking the range. A lot of players forget that last bit, and I think we have all tried (and still do) to move some units by mistake. Why is that made so hard and time-consuming?

With all the modifikation on movement (terrain, ZOC etc.), it is vital to see the movement-range for several units before you move, especially for the German player who has most of the initiative and wants to make combined attacks. Please fix that.

2. Cycling through units: With so many units, it's hard not to forget a couple that still have AP's and can make an attack or a movement. We need an "Next-button" so we can cycle through the units, that can still make an action. Why is that not possible now?

It's been pretty normal for turn-based games for years, and it's the only way to make sure that the player really is finished with his turn, and have used all his units to the best of his abillity.

This game is time-consuming enough but with changes like these, I'm sure that the game will be more attractive for players who donīt like to click through 200+ units to find out if they have forgotten a move or not [:)]

Cheers,



Josh -> RE: A better GUI, - please look Vic (9/9/2010 2:29:25 PM)

Yeah I understand your problem with the range thing. Except that I've played AT for so long that using the M (for movement) and Spacebar (cancelling movement) has become a second nature for me. I rarely press any of the lower row buttons, but use the shortkeys instead. Much faster and convenient. So click on unit, and your left hand for pressing M and spacebar, easy peasy. The way you do it would drive me crazy I think.

Cycle units, would be nice if implemented, but personally I tend to move the units per division, so I do not miss it really. The units grey out, but that can be hard to discern sometimes.



BodyBag -> RE: A better GUI, - please look Vic (9/9/2010 3:41:32 PM)

No matter if you use M and Spacebar, you are still using 3 processes every time to show a simple range, something other games show with one click.

Same with the cycle of units, it has been used by other games, so it should not be missing in this.

What makes it important in this game, is the high number of units you have to manage every turn. At some point, you will not move in div. but in single units, and fight in single units due to stacking, if you want to use your units right.

It all add up to a lot of unnessesary micro-managing, so I dont really buy your excuses.

Cheers,



TPM -> RE: A better GUI, - please look Vic (9/9/2010 4:13:32 PM)

1. Not a problem for me...in fact, I like that I have the choice to show the range or not. I wouldn't like it if every time I clicked on a unit, it automatically showed the range...I want to be able to click on a unit, and still have a "clean" map to look at. Pressing M is not too much of an effort for me, I don't mind it.

2. A "Next unit" button is definitely needed and would be appreciated!



borsook79 -> RE: A better GUI, - please look Vic (9/9/2010 4:28:06 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: TPM

1. Not a problem for me...in fact, I like that I have the choice to show the range or not. I wouldn't like it if every time I clicked on a unit, it automatically showed the range...I want to be able to click on a unit, and still have a "clean" map to look at. Pressing M is not too much of an effort for me, I don't mind it.

2. A "Next unit" button is definitely needed and would be appreciated!

1 this is what options are for, it doesn't have to be a default. Anyway I concur both ideas!



GlobalExplorer -> RE: A better GUI, - please look Vic (9/9/2010 5:14:49 PM)

a few points how I think the UI could be improved:

1. option to move small map to the border of the screen (like the mini map)
2. if doubleclick on a unit on the oob window, make sure the unit is really visible (right now it nigh useless).
3. allow configuring different types of NATO counters (e.g. currently my favorite is to use the graphical counters on the map, but I prefer the NATO counters in the interface (oob window, unit panel), and I must very often switch ween them.
4. when I switch between different counter types it takes several seconds until the counters in the bottom panel are updated.
5. settings like counter types / zoom should be stored in savegames , now I must set them every time I load the game

this one is driving me nuts: when I press CTRL-S, it should open the Save Game Window, not Strategic Transfer!

Another thing, seems I will never learn this: when I click a unit, select move (only to see where the unit move) and then forget that I need to hit ESC before I klick another unit, I often move units by accident. And I have to make a lot of savegames just for that reason!!



Tordan69 -> RE: A better GUI, - please look Vic (9/9/2010 7:21:24 PM)

Undo last move-button?



patchogue -> RE: A better GUI, - please look Vic (9/9/2010 7:48:11 PM)

Although I've had plenty of cases when the undo button would be handy it does help to simulate the possibility of misunderstood orders or bad staff work...as I tell myself when my best panzer unit heads away from the fight...again!



GlobalExplorer -> RE: A better GUI, - please look Vic (9/9/2010 7:56:25 PM)

I could think of better ways to simulate that [;)]



BodyBag -> RE: A better GUI, - please look Vic (9/9/2010 8:07:55 PM)

But its all because of the clumsy UI, wich is my point.

Cheers,



dougb -> RE: A better GUI, - please look Vic (9/9/2010 10:50:17 PM)

One thing I'd really like to see in the interface is quite a bit more space devoted to the map - perhaps the info bars could be downsized a bit?

Best wishes,

Doug



Hexagon -> RE: A better GUI, - please look Vic (9/10/2010 11:41:53 PM)

All are good adds to the game another "minor" add could be made at medium zoom more visible the corp/army colour, sometimes is hard know what is the superior HQ and even changing the colour dont help because many colours are to dark (red of pink need more light) i think that add more parts in the counter with the unit colour + more strong colours could help... maybe the colour in the OTAN/symbol as in HPS games or add the colour behind the unit name... but the true help is select a unit and higlight the superior subordinate units is a great help.



bairdlander2 -> RE: A better GUI, - please look Vic (9/11/2010 2:28:19 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: dougb

One thing I'd really like to see in the interface is quite a bit more space devoted to the map - perhaps the info bars could be downsized a bit?

Best wishes,

Doug

agree,perhaps an option to close the bottom unit info/bar.



hank -> RE: A better GUI, - please look Vic (9/11/2010 4:50:36 PM)

Now that I've been playing a few days I find one feature I would really like.

When you click on a HQ unit all units under its command highlight. Or the hex those units are in, highlight a fairly bright color.

This helps you keep your forces organized under its HQ. SSG games have had this for a few releases now and it really helps keep track of where forces under the selected HQ are on the map.



dougb -> RE: A better GUI, - please look Vic (9/11/2010 5:54:44 PM)

I'd like to see a button in the preferences that would display the VP's on the map so you could glance at those - it would be extremely helpful rather than having to click on the city hexes to see whether they are worth any vps.

Best wishes,

Doug



GlobalExplorer -> RE: A better GUI, - please look Vic (9/11/2010 6:33:34 PM)

^Now that you mention it, I also thought that the victory points should be shown on the map.



bairdlander2 -> RE: A better GUI, - please look Vic (9/12/2010 12:27:41 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: hank

Now that I've been playing a few days I find one feature I would really like.

When you click on a HQ unit all units under its command highlight. Or the hex those units are in, highlight a fairly bright color.

This helps you keep your forces organized under its HQ. SSG games have had this for a few releases now and it really helps keep track of where forces under the selected HQ are on the map.

I just tried this and nothing changed,no highlights of hex or units.[&:][&:]



dougb -> RE: A better GUI, - please look Vic (9/12/2010 12:57:40 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: bairdlander


quote:

ORIGINAL: hank

Now that I've been playing a few days I find one feature I would really like.

When you click on a HQ unit all units under its command highlight. Or the hex those units are in, highlight a fairly bright color.

This helps you keep your forces organized under its HQ. SSG games have had this for a few releases now and it really helps keep track of where forces under the selected HQ are on the map.

I just tried this and nothing changed,no highlights of hex or units.[&:][&:]


Select the Hq and then in the info bar click on the color stripe on the left hand side of the counter. It'll bring up a selection of colors and when you select one of then your units will all show with that color. I usually use yellow which works quite effectively. Think I'd still prefer a unit highlighting system but this does work as well.

Best wishes,

Doug



rjh1971 -> RE: A better GUI, - please look Vic (9/12/2010 1:13:13 AM)

How about a hotkey that would center the map on the currently selected unit.



Vic -> RE: A better GUI, - please look Vic (9/12/2010 11:11:23 AM)

Just letting everybody know I read this thread and will very probably implement a number of things in the upcomming patch.



GlobalExplorer -> RE: A better GUI, - please look Vic (9/12/2010 12:22:09 PM)

Great.

And perhaps a good idea, if people post UI suggestions in one single thread.

Normally the user are the greatest experts when it comes to the ergonomics of a UI. Although I generally think this is a very slick UI, I also found a lot of tiny annoyances and wishes, and I already started making a list (see above for my most important ideas).



hank -> RE: A better GUI, - please look Vic (9/12/2010 3:00:28 PM)

Thanks Doug ... that works for me. I have to admit I have not read the manual front to back yet. I probbly skimmed over that little tid bit of info.

(as an Option) A hex highlighting when you select an HQ would also help finding those units buried in the stack. But that's not a game breaker for me.


quote:

ORIGINAL: dougb


quote:

ORIGINAL: bairdlander


quote:

ORIGINAL: hank

Now that I've been playing a few days I find one feature I would really like.

When you click on a HQ unit all units under its command highlight. Or the hex those units are in, highlight a fairly bright color.

This helps you keep your forces organized under its HQ. SSG games have had this for a few releases now and it really helps keep track of where forces under the selected HQ are on the map.

I just tried this and nothing changed,no highlights of hex or units.[&:][&:]


Select the Hq and then in the info bar click on the color stripe on the left hand side of the counter. It'll bring up a selection of colors and when you select one of then your units will all show with that color. I usually use yellow which works quite effectively. Think I'd still prefer a unit highlighting system but this does work as well.

Best wishes,

Doug




vonRocko -> RE: A better GUI, - please look Vic (9/12/2010 3:22:26 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Vic

Just letting everybody know I read this thread and will very probably implement a number of things in the upcomming patch.

A "next unit" button! PLEASE![sm=innocent0001.gif]



hank -> RE: A better GUI, - please look Vic (9/12/2010 5:30:15 PM)

maybe not exactly a gui remark but its close
... and it really doesn't require work by Vic ... only someone who knows

I think it would help if we had A graphic showing what all the info means on the map unit boxes ... in the middle zoom and close in zoom (not needed for the zoomed out view obviously)
[a downloadable PDF would be great]

I know in the close in zoom view the info along the left edge is the same as in the Info Box at the bottom left of the screen. But there's other info on the right side and corner (little green box) I'm not sure what its telling me.

The one on the middle zoom level unit box that has me confused is the vertical green (or yellow/gold) bar on the left edge. I think that it might be indicating an overall unit strength ... but I'm just guessing. And does the small green box above it indicate the same thing the small green box does in the zoomed in view (lower right corner).

I know this is very wordy ... thus the old saying "a picture is worth a thousand words"

I found a little in the manual but not everything in one place ... as I said above I'm still reading it.

By the way ... I really like the GUI ... its different, logical and a refreshing change from a lot of the other game GUI's



rjh1971 -> RE: A better GUI, - please look Vic (9/16/2010 10:01:59 PM)

For patch 1.03 would it be possible to change the selected hex highlight colour from grey to red so it is more visible?
Thanks



Krupinski -> RE: A better GUI, - please look Vic (9/17/2010 9:20:49 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Vic

Just letting everybody know I read this thread and will very probably implement a number of things in the upcomming patch.


Good to hear! Could you please tell us when Patch 1.02 will be released? Cause i really must have an "undo movement"-button [:)]



NefariousKoel -> RE: A better GUI, - please look Vic (9/17/2010 4:16:53 PM)

I would like to see the estimated unit strength (shown on the counter in full zoom) listed in the unit info area at the bottom of the screen. 

Currently it only shows at mid-zoom with the non-NATO style counters enabled, however those do not differentiate HQs.  So instead of zooming in and out for the quick strength estimates I'd also like to see them listed on the info card as it would save me some zooming in and out and constantly changing counter styles at different zoom levels. [;)]


EDIT: Under the Retreat and Supply percentage level settings maybe?



hank -> RE: A better GUI, - please look Vic (9/19/2010 2:33:46 AM)

This is a tiny suggestion.

It would be easier to find a higlighted (selected) hex if it was a brighter color. Now its a very pale gray which blends in to the other map colors. A bright green or red or orange or cyan ... etc. etc.

This would especially be helpful if you're trying to locate units via the OOB box. You know its somewhere in the middle of the screen but a bright color would help. ... at full zoom out it would be very useful.

but this is not a show stopper ... just a suggestion

Edit add-on: I tried changing the selectedhex.png file (for mid range zoom) and hosed it up ... thank goodness I copied it first but i think I'll try again ... I just didn't do it right probably. I think this is where the color could be changed ... but I could be wrong. So if anyone else tries it, be sure to copy the original file.



Krupinski -> RE: A better GUI, - please look Vic (9/19/2010 3:18:53 PM)

why not using right mouse button with a popup menu for some action like
-recon
-move to
?

so i dont have to move my mouse over the screen.



bcgames -> RE: A better GUI, - please look Vic (9/20/2010 8:42:29 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: hafer

why not using right mouse button with a popup menu for some action like
-recon
-move to
?

so i dont have to move my mouse over the screen.

Good idea. Being right-handed, it seems like I'm always reaching over to the left side of the toolbar to select the move unit(s) or the back-to-... icons.



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