Space Station Question. (Full Version)

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tjhkkr -> Space Station Question. (9/15/2010 4:45:38 AM)

Is it possible to put a Space Station of any kind in a system without planets?
The pirates are able to, but I have not been able to. It would be kind of nice. In some areas, all you have is a single isolated star; it would be nice to stick a station there. Or maybe even in open space. I cannot tell you the number of times pirates have cut through such gaps and hit me. [:@] I actually enjoy pirate fighting quite a bit, but I would like to be able to better protect myself. In one game, I had to leave considerable fleet assets there to protect my holdings.
Is anyone aware of a way?



WoodMan -> RE: Space Station Question. (9/15/2010 12:04:17 PM)

Never tried it, but I think you can build something called a Starport, what are they???  Are they good enough for what you want?

I guess if not, maybe you could change their design [;)]



Shark7 -> RE: Space Station Question. (9/15/2010 2:23:25 PM)

Yes, the following can be built anywhere:

Monitoring Station
*'Star Base'
Resort Base
Research Station
Mining Station
Gas Mining Station


* Any design you make and designate as a Star Base, so long as it is not too big for the constructor ship can be built just about anywhere you desire. I actually build Star Bases that have multiple docks and gas miner as refueling stations for my fleets....building them near gas clouds.



tjhkkr -> RE: Space Station Question. (9/16/2010 10:46:41 PM)

Thanks for the answers. I think the pirates can expect a couple of surprises rather than ambushing my planets. [:D]

Shark-7: different matter entirely: you on the Development team for H3... any word on a release date?

Thanks again for the answers.



b0mber -> RE: Space Station Question. (9/17/2010 2:56:59 PM)

Didn't the stations placed at open space burn fuel because they can't gain energy from collectors? They are going to be out of fuel at some point due to the static energy consumed.

by3z!



Igard -> RE: Space Station Question. (9/17/2010 10:19:18 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: b0mber

Didn't the stations placed at open space burn fuel because they can't gain energy from collectors? They are going to be out of fuel at some point due to the static energy consumed.

by3z!


That's true if they're in a remote location (far from any fuel sources), but I've noticed that they function pretty well anyway without fuel. Monitoring stations long range sensors still function without fuel.



b0mber -> RE: Space Station Question. (9/18/2010 2:35:13 PM)

I didn't know that, and I don't think it's working as intended. The first scanner, Long Range Scanner LR-100 cause 60 energy drain per second, how can it work without energy :P

by3z!



Igard -> RE: Space Station Question. (9/18/2010 6:56:53 PM)

I think it's a bug. I actually rather like it.

It's easy to test this. Just send a construction ship some way out into deep space and build a monitoring station. It should be constructed with 0 fuel and 0 energy but it will be fully operational. The only things that seem to be affected are the weapons.



tjhkkr -> RE: Space Station Question. (9/19/2010 3:27:57 AM)

The only things that seem to be affected are the weapons.

Which explains the limited effectiveness of my armed gas and mining stations. I was thinking the pirates were about to get the surprise of their life when the gas/mining stations open fire on them. But sometimes they shoot; sometimes not so much. [;)]



Cosian -> RE: Space Station Question. (9/19/2010 12:23:01 PM)

I have not watched it carefully but it would seem plausable that the fuel is only actually used to run the reactor which creates energy and fills the energy store. If you have solar collectors .... and yes I am still trying to figure out what they actually do and how they work... the solar collectors may be able to fill the energy store if their input is greater than the static energy requirement. This would account for the weapons being able to fire albeit not that efficiently. It would also account for why a fueless monitor station seems to work....it is able to run its scanner now and then. ?? The subject again brings to light the need for more detail on how components actually work and play together.

Again, have not paid attention, but don't freighters bring fuel to stations that need fuel?



b0mber -> RE: Space Station Question. (9/19/2010 3:36:41 PM)

You are right about everything.

The collectors need to be on stations or stopped ships in order to gain energy.

Yes, afaik frighters bring fuel to stations, but if the station is a bit far away they could take a while.

A station with 360 fuel capacity
Provided with the first reactor, Fission Reactor FS100
The reactor consumes 7,62 fuel to give 1000 energy units.
Long Range Scanner LR-100 (60 static e.) plus other components let's say 70 static energy.
The station with 360 fuel can produce 47,2k of energy.
It doesn't have collectors or it's placed in deep space.
The station consumes 70 energy per second wich means it is going to run out of fuel every 11 mins and 15 seconds.



Cosian -> RE: Space Station Question. (9/19/2010 3:52:00 PM)

Hehe... ya the lights are starting to come on and that all makes sense and is consistent with what I am seeing...




Shark7 -> RE: Space Station Question. (9/19/2010 4:07:32 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: tjhkkr

Thanks for the answers. I think the pirates can expect a couple of surprises rather than ambushing my planets. [:D]

Shark-7: different matter entirely: you on the Development team for H3... any word on a release date?

Thanks again for the answers.


I'll PM you and not hijack the DW forums. [:)]



Shark7 -> RE: Space Station Question. (9/19/2010 4:13:25 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: tjhkkr

The only things that seem to be affected are the weapons.

Which explains the limited effectiveness of my armed gas and mining stations. I was thinking the pirates were about to get the surprise of their life when the gas/mining stations open fire on them. But sometimes they shoot; sometimes not so much. [;)]


I do know my refuel stations work, but they are using fuel they mine themselves. I build caslon using stations in O2N coulds, etc. So they keep themselves fueled and have enough cargo space to refuel a fleet or two.



tjhkkr -> RE: Space Station Question. (9/19/2010 7:30:41 PM)

A station with 360 fuel capacity
Provided with the first reactor, Fission Reactor FS100
The reactor consumes 7,62 fuel to give 1000 energy units.
Long Range Scanner LR-100 (60 static e.) plus other components let's say 70 static energy.
The station with 360 fuel can produce 47,2k of energy.
It doesn't have collectors or it's placed in deep space.
The station consumes 70 energy per second wich means it is going to run out of fuel every 11 mins and 15 seconds.


I do know my refuel stations work, but they are using fuel they mine themselves. I build caslon using stations in O2N coulds, etc. So they keep themselves fueled and have enough cargo space to refuel a fleet or two.

That is good information to have. Sounds like I need to work on my designs a bit.



Cosian -> RE: Space Station Question. (9/20/2010 12:16:07 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: b0mber

You are right about everything.

The collectors need to be on stations or stopped ships in order to gain energy.

Yes, afaik frighters bring fuel to stations, but if the station is a bit far away they could take a while.

A station with 360 fuel capacity
Provided with the first reactor, Fission Reactor FS100
The reactor consumes 7,62 fuel to give 1000 energy units.
Long Range Scanner LR-100 (60 static e.) plus other components let's say 70 static energy.
The station with 360 fuel can produce 47,2k of energy.
It doesn't have collectors or it's placed in deep space.
The station consumes 70 energy per second wich means it is going to run out of fuel every 11 mins and 15 seconds.


I think it would actually run longer, albeit not with all systems working .... Where energy use exceeds production the limiting factor is the reactor. The FS100 can only produce 59 energy units per second so it can only use a max of .44958 fuel per second. If fuel is managed at 5 digits of precision, it would run for 13.34579 minutes.... So you have an additional couple minutes to make a sandwich before the lights go out.

What would be really nice is if the design screen could launch a little simulator screen where you set some ticks like weapons firing, move speed, shield recharging, using thrusters, proximity to star, etc.... sure would help folks understand whats going on.

It's anyone guess how its actually coded and there many unknowns that could have a big impact on fuel use... For example, how efficient are the reactors? Clearly they do not fire and burn fuel when the energy store is full. So when do they decide they need to run a cycle? Do they consider how much energy the solar collectors will bring in that cycle? Do they only fire if the projected empty energy store amount is equal to or less than their output?

In some respects, maybe I am digging to deep, but answers to these and other questions are intregal to ship design. I am still trying to figure out how much energy recharging shields use and also if there is any energy impact to using more thrusters.








Shark7 -> RE: Space Station Question. (9/20/2010 12:45:00 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: tjhkkr

A station with 360 fuel capacity
Provided with the first reactor, Fission Reactor FS100
The reactor consumes 7,62 fuel to give 1000 energy units.
Long Range Scanner LR-100 (60 static e.) plus other components let's say 70 static energy.
The station with 360 fuel can produce 47,2k of energy.
It doesn't have collectors or it's placed in deep space.
The station consumes 70 energy per second wich means it is going to run out of fuel every 11 mins and 15 seconds.


I do know my refuel stations work, but they are using fuel they mine themselves. I build caslon using stations in O2N coulds, etc. So they keep themselves fueled and have enough cargo space to refuel a fleet or two.

That is good information to have. Sounds like I need to work on my designs a bit.


Main thing is to note what type of reactor you are using, what fuel it requires, then build the station in a gas cloud or on a gas giant with the correct fuel type. Some use caslon, some use hydrogen, etc. Make a note of it, then find the right resource area to build. And keeping the older stations up isn't a bad idea either, some of your older civilian ships will still use the old fuel types.



b0mber -> RE: Space Station Question. (9/20/2010 2:05:08 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Cosian

13.34579 minutes.... So you have an additional couple minutes to make a sandwich before the lights go out.



xD I didn't take into account at the example that the production of energy was lower than the consumption. I design my ships the opposite to be sure that they can fire all their weapons at sprint speed so enemy ships can't escape.

As you said there is some missed information.


quote:

ORIGINAL: tjhkkr

That is good information to have. Sounds like I need to work on my designs a bit.



I use to do this math when I'm designing combat ships as a measure of "efficiency". When designing big size ships I usually found myself guessing how much fuel they need, so I calculate how much time they can fire all it's weapons at sprint speed before running out of fuel.

Programers could add this efficiency to the energy tab at design screen to make life easier for me :P

by3z!



Cosian -> RE: Space Station Question. (9/20/2010 3:30:31 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: b0mber


xD I didn't take into account at the example that the production of energy was lower than the consumption. I design my ships the opposite to be sure that they can fire all their weapons at sprint speed so enemy ships can't escape.

As you said there is some missed information.

I use to do this math when I'm designing combat ships as a measure of "efficiency". When designing big size ships I usually found myself guessing how much fuel they need, so I calculate how much time they can fire all it's weapons at sprint speed before running out of fuel.

Programers could add this efficiency to the energy tab at design screen to make life easier for me :P

by3z!


I do pretty much the same thing. Perhaps someday CodeForce will either provide some modeling capability on the design screen, or at a minimum provide additional info on how energy, fuel, and components interact and play in a cycle......



tjhkkr -> RE: Space Station Question. (9/21/2010 4:38:03 AM)

[&:][&:][&:]
Did they take down the bug reporting thread?
[&:][&:][&:]



ehsumrell1 -> RE: Space Station Question. (9/21/2010 4:43:12 AM)

I've noticed it was missing also....around 11am EST today.



the1sean -> RE: Space Station Question. (9/21/2010 6:14:09 AM)

Hmm, it looks like they need a new station type: refueling station! Should I put one of each fuel reactor on board, since there are 2 fuel sources? Or should I make one Caslon station and one Hydrogen station??? All fueling stations are gonna get a LR sensor, BTW.



b0mber -> RE: Space Station Question. (9/21/2010 11:50:30 AM)

Not only that, I see everyone who had posted there as Matrix Legion of Merit regardless of the number of posts.



Cosian -> RE: Space Station Question. (9/21/2010 7:21:11 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: the1sean

Hmm, it looks like they need a new station type: refueling station! Should I put one of each fuel reactor on board, since there are 2 fuel sources? Or should I make one Caslon station and one Hydrogen station??? All fueling stations are gonna get a LR sensor, BTW.


I may not be understanding what your after, but it would not seem the type of reactor would not make a difference. A gas miner at a gas giant with both Caslon and Hydrogen would have both in cargo regardless of the type of reactor it used??



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