Gary's Never Was Workshop and Doodle Pad

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GaryChildress -> Gary's Never Was Workshop and Doodle Pad (10/8/2010 7:34:48 AM)
I've been messing around with some alternative history "never-were" designs. Here's my first batch. 1. On the left are some variations of Hawkins class cruisers. In the "never-were" universe it would be easy to postulate HMS Vindictive being upgraded to a flush deck carrier in the early 1930s instead of being converted back to a cruiser after her short career as an experimental carrier. Or a boiler refit along with improved armament for a couple Hawkins class boats. 2. Middle: Apparently there were very tentative plans to convert some Omaha class cruisers into light carriers in the 1930s I believe. Never even got off the drawing board but if they had... And of course a boiler and armament refit for Omaha. 3. Right: What if the Royal Navy had upgraded its "D" Class cruisers to destroyer leaders utilizing DP guns? I'll post some shils and sides over the weekend for these ships. In the mean time, here are some teasers. [image]local://upfiles/17421/2F67EFB42CC045ECBEAAA04F2073AA2E.jpg[/image] EDIT: These ships are basically standard WITP:AE images which have been doctored up a bit. The bottom row are the original AE ship sides. Above are my conversions.

Shark7 -> RE: Gary's Never Was Workshop and Doodle Pad (10/8/2010 5:15:40 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Gary Childress I've been messing around with some alternative history "never-were" designs. Here's my first batch. 1. On the left are some variations of Hawkins class cruisers. In the "never-were" universe it would be easy to postulate HMS Vindictive being upgraded to a flush deck carrier in the early 1930s instead of being converted back to a cruiser after her short career as an experimental carrier. Or a boiler refit along with improved armament for a couple Hawkins class boats. 2. Middle: Apparently there were very tentative plans to convert some Omaha class cruisers into light carriers in the 1930s I believe. Never even got off the drawing board but if they had... And of course a boiler and armament refit for Omaha. 3. Right: What if the Royal Navy had upgraded its "D" Class cruisers to destroyer leaders utilizing DP guns? I'll post some shils and sides over the weekend for these ships. In the mean time, here are some teasers. [image]local://upfiles/17421/2F67EFB42CC045ECBEAAA04F2073AA2E.jpg[/image] EDIT: These ships are basically standard WITP:AE images which have been doctored up a bit. The bottom row are the original AE ship sides. Above are my conversions. Nice, and I actually need those for a mod I've been working on. Also, apparantly there was some thought put into making a 4 x 8in gun version of the Omaha, as well as a Monitor with 2 x 14in gun based on the Omaha hull.

GaryChildress -> RE: Gary's Never Was Workshop and Doodle Pad (10/8/2010 11:08:09 PM)
Great! Then they won't go to waste. [8D] Does anyone happen to have some ship side blanks they could send me so I can put them on. The side blanks I have are on my other computer and my other computer is kaput for right now. Specifically I'm looking for AE compatible blanks, blue sky, whispy clouds, etc. JWE sent me the ones I currently have on my computer. If you're out there John, would you send me some more. Pretty please! [:)] Thanks.

TOMLABEL -> RE: Gary's Never Was Workshop and Doodle Pad (10/8/2010 11:27:03 PM)
I think these are the ones we used for AE. I might have reversed some to have more variety. If I'm wrong....sorry, but I think these are the ones we used. TOMLABEL

GaryChildress -> RE: Gary's Never Was Workshop and Doodle Pad (10/9/2010 12:40:13 AM)
Many thanks Tomlabel!! They do look like the ones JWE sent me a while back. [:)]

JWE -> RE: Gary's Never Was Workshop and Doodle Pad (10/9/2010 12:45:43 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Gary Childress Many thanks Tomlabel!! They do look like the ones JWE sent me a while back. [:)] Yep. They are the same. TomLabel and BigB and I all used that same collection of background panels for the AE art Sides.

GaryChildress -> RE: Gary's Never Was Workshop and Doodle Pad (10/9/2010 2:14:14 AM)
Here are the sides and shils for the Allied CLs.

Don Bowen -> RE: Gary's Never Was Workshop and Doodle Pad (10/9/2010 2:20:38 AM)
One of my favority never-were ships is the abortive CF flight deck cruiser...

GaryChildress -> RE: Gary's Never Was Workshop and Doodle Pad (10/9/2010 2:22:18 AM)
Note I made a few design changes, especially adding float planes to the Omaha and Hawkins refits. [image]local://upfiles/17421/C4287DAF7FC8486B93FD64F8687C3F04.jpg[/image]

GaryChildress -> RE: Gary's Never Was Workshop and Doodle Pad (10/9/2010 2:50:48 AM)
Tonight's project was creating an alternative set of Alt_naval BBs for the IJN. I did a full set of ship sides and shils for the alt_naval fleet which is posted on Rogue USMC's WITP fan site. However, I never did like the color scheme very well on those ships. They always seemed a little too light. I intend to redo an alt_naval fleet for the IJN, however, this time I'm going to use existing WITP:AE ship sides which I'm doctoring up to appear like the alt_naval ships. So for instance, I did a BB Harima based upon some basic IJN design habits, using existing sides from the AE art pack. For those who don't know, BB Harima is part of the alt_naval couinterfacutal IJN building program. In order to cut costs and building time, the IJN refits Ise, Hyuga, Fuso and Yamishiro by removing 2 turrets from each ship and lengthening to create fast BBs out of them so they can keep up with the carriers. Using the 2 extra turrets pulled off the ships above, the IJN builds 2 new 8 x 14" gun BBs called the Harima class. Below is my rendition of Harima, and the 8 x 14" Fuso and Ise classes. The BBs carry a bit less punch but they can still escort the carriers and provide shore bombardment. [image]local://upfiles/17421/00F9F93BFBCB448DAD28216C8BC21CBA.jpg[/image]

GaryChildress -> RE: Gary's Never Was Workshop and Doodle Pad (10/9/2010 2:54:34 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Don Bowen One of my favority never-were ships is the abortive CF flight deck cruiser... Here's a rendition of it for anyone interested... [:)] [image]local://upfiles/17421/9934177EB0464993861DD119560B0ED3.jpg[/image]

GaryChildress -> RE: Gary's Never Was Workshop and Doodle Pad (10/9/2010 3:09:55 PM)
And here are the side and shil for the CF flight deck cruiser.

Shark7 -> RE: Gary's Never Was Workshop and Doodle Pad (10/9/2010 3:47:28 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Gary Childress quote: ORIGINAL: Don Bowen One of my favority never-were ships is the abortive CF flight deck cruiser... Here's a rendition of it for anyone interested... [:)] [image]local://upfiles/17421/9934177EB0464993861DD119560B0ED3.jpg[/image] Yeah, I'm interested in any of the never were designs you are willing to make. I'm making a 'No Treaties' type mod, so the never were's are going to become the sure are's.

traskott -> RE: Gary's Never Was Workshop and Doodle Pad (10/9/2010 4:37:53 PM)
Amazing job. Thank you VERY much...

GaryChildress -> RE: Gary's Never Was Workshop and Doodle Pad (10/9/2010 5:37:49 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: traskott Amazing job. Thank you VERY much...� You are most welcome traskott! @ Shark7: Sounds like a great mod in the making! [8D] Another use for the Omaha and Hawkins buildouts which would be a little less "never-were" would be to create binds out of the refits or CVL versions so that the player could convert Omaha or Hawkins class ships during the course of the war.

traskott -> RE: Gary's Never Was Workshop and Doodle Pad (10/9/2010 6:20:23 PM)
Very useful conversion, I think... The big trouble with all these is it's almost impossible put everything in just one mod [:'(]

GaryChildress -> RE: Gary's Never Was Workshop and Doodle Pad (10/10/2010 3:36:13 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Shark7 quote: ORIGINAL: Gary Childress quote: ORIGINAL: Don Bowen One of my favority never-were ships is the abortive CF flight deck cruiser... Here's a rendition of it for anyone interested... [:)] [image]local://upfiles/17421/9934177EB0464993861DD119560B0ED3.jpg[/image] Yeah, I'm interested in any of the never were designs you are willing to make. I'm making a 'No Treaties' type mod, so the never were's are going to become the sure are's. What other ships are you going to need for your mod? If you give me a list I can probably make some of them.

oldman45 -> RE: Gary's Never Was Workshop and Doodle Pad (10/10/2010 3:48:23 PM)
Gary, what stats would you use for the "D" class conversions?

GaryChildress -> RE: Gary's Never Was Workshop and Doodle Pad (10/10/2010 3:57:48 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: oldman45 Gary, what stats would you use for the "D" class conversions? Off the top of my head, I'm not sure. Main armament could maybe be 5.25in/50 QF Mk I ala Dido class ships. From that point you could give them similar secondary armament to the Leanders or something along those lines.

Terminus -> RE: Gary's Never Was Workshop and Doodle Pad (10/10/2010 5:18:08 PM)
I'd go with the 4.5in if it were me. Better AA performance.

mike scholl 1 -> RE: Gary's Never Was Workshop and Doodle Pad (10/10/2010 5:52:12 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Gary Childress I've been messing around with some alternative history "never-were" designs. Here's my first batch. 2. Middle: Apparently there were very tentative plans to convert some Omaha class cruisers into light carriers in the 1930s I believe. Never even got off the drawing board but if they had... And of course a boiler and armament refit for Omaha. *Problem here was that the Omaha's hulls were too narrow to become a stable platform for A/C operations/storage.* 3. Right: What if the Royal Navy had upgraded its "D" Class cruisers to destroyer leaders utilizing DP guns? Problem here is that the RN just didn't have enough good DP weapons. They even tried to buy US 5/38's to fill this gap..., but even the massive production of America wasn't enough to meet more than our own needs. I'll post some shils and sides over the weekend for these ships. In the mean time, here are some teasers. [image]local://upfiles/17421/2F67EFB42CC045ECBEAAA04F2073AA2E.jpg[/image] EDIT: These ships are basically standard WITP:AE images which have been doctored up a bit. The bottom row are the original AE ship sides. Above are my conversions.

GaryChildress -> RE: Gary's Never Was Workshop and Doodle Pad (10/10/2010 6:33:34 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: mike scholl 1 quote: ORIGINAL: Gary Childress I've been messing around with some alternative history "never-were" designs. Here's my first batch. 2. Middle: Apparently there were very tentative plans to convert some Omaha class cruisers into light carriers in the 1930s I believe. Never even got off the drawing board but if they had... And of course a boiler and armament refit for Omaha. *Problem here was that the Omaha's hulls were too narrow to become a stable platform for A/C operations/storage.* 3. Right: What if the Royal Navy had upgraded its "D" Class cruisers to destroyer leaders utilizing DP guns? Problem here is that the RN just didn't have enough good DP weapons. They even tried to buy US 5/38's to fill this gap..., but even the massive production of America wasn't enough to meet more than our own needs. I'll post some shils and sides over the weekend for these ships. In the mean time, here are some teasers. [image]local://upfiles/17421/2F67EFB42CC045ECBEAAA04F2073AA2E.jpg[/image] EDIT: These ships are basically standard WITP:AE images which have been doctored up a bit. The bottom row are the original AE ship sides. Above are my conversions. The more I look at it, the more I have to agree regarding the Omahas as CVLs. As far as having enough good DP weapons, I suppose you could sacrifice some wartime BB production to free up resources for modernization, get rid of Vanguard and Howe maybe?

GaryChildress -> RE: Gary's Never Was Workshop and Doodle Pad (10/10/2010 7:07:47 PM)
Here's a preview of the alt_naval "shadow carrier" program. Again for those not familiar with the alt_naval universe, the IJN basically builds a bunch of auxiliary ships, AVs, APDs, ARs and ASs in the 1930s with the intention of converting them into CVLs at a later date. The ease of converting them to CVLs is facilitated by pre-incorporating aircraft lifts and other CVL enhancements into their original non-CVL designs. So converting these ships to CVLs won't take quite as long as was normal. I plan on re-releasing another alt_naval lineup once I have completed all the ships. And hopefully by then I will have some word back from its creator about sharing the data with other enthusaists. Still haven't gotten a reply to my last e-mail. [:(] [image]local://upfiles/17421/6E43B441CEEA4DC6B5A8521F9D8B77A7.jpg[/image]

Shark7 -> RE: Gary's Never Was Workshop and Doodle Pad (10/10/2010 7:41:15 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Gary Childress quote: ORIGINAL: mike scholl 1 quote: ORIGINAL: Gary Childress I've been messing around with some alternative history "never-were" designs. Here's my first batch. 2. Middle: Apparently there were very tentative plans to convert some Omaha class cruisers into light carriers in the 1930s I believe. Never even got off the drawing board but if they had... And of course a boiler and armament refit for Omaha. *Problem here was that the Omaha's hulls were too narrow to become a stable platform for A/C operations/storage.* 3. Right: What if the Royal Navy had upgraded its "D" Class cruisers to destroyer leaders utilizing DP guns? Problem here is that the RN just didn't have enough good DP weapons. They even tried to buy US 5/38's to fill this gap..., but even the massive production of America wasn't enough to meet more than our own needs. I'll post some shils and sides over the weekend for these ships. In the mean time, here are some teasers. [image]local://upfiles/17421/2F67EFB42CC045ECBEAAA04F2073AA2E.jpg[/image] EDIT: These ships are basically standard WITP:AE images which have been doctored up a bit. The bottom row are the original AE ship sides. Above are my conversions. The more I look at it, the more I have to agree regarding the Omahas as CVLs. As far as having enough good DP weapons, I suppose you could sacrifice some wartime BB production to free up resources for modernization, get rid of Vanguard and Howe maybe? Likely the Omaha CV would have ended up a lot like Langley did...used as a test platform and learning experience (after they figured out it wouldn't work), before being converted into a seaplane support ship. As far as ship sides I'm looking at, will have to compile a list...some already exist in the old WiTP add-on artwork...but some, like the Tillmans might be an interesting foray into over-built failures. [:D] Also looking into the feasibility of keeping some of the older ships in reserve service, seeing how there is no treaty to force their scrapping (obviously not talking turn of the century relics, but rather some of the WWI built ships that the various navies scrapped in favour of new tonnage).

Terminus -> RE: Gary's Never Was Workshop and Doodle Pad (10/10/2010 8:07:22 PM)
The biggest weakness in AltNaval's building program, of which I was also a big fan, is the one that Mike's already touched on: too many carrier decks with no industrial or training capacity to build air groups for them. The IJN can use the auxiliaries better.

GaryChildress -> RE: Gary's Never Was Workshop and Doodle Pad (10/10/2010 8:49:14 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Shark7 quote: ORIGINAL: Gary Childress quote: ORIGINAL: mike scholl 1 quote: ORIGINAL: Gary Childress I've been messing around with some alternative history "never-were" designs. Here's my first batch. 2. Middle: Apparently there were very tentative plans to convert some Omaha class cruisers into light carriers in the 1930s I believe. Never even got off the drawing board but if they had... And of course a boiler and armament refit for Omaha. *Problem here was that the Omaha's hulls were too narrow to become a stable platform for A/C operations/storage.* 3. Right: What if the Royal Navy had upgraded its "D" Class cruisers to destroyer leaders utilizing DP guns? Problem here is that the RN just didn't have enough good DP weapons. They even tried to buy US 5/38's to fill this gap..., but even the massive production of America wasn't enough to meet more than our own needs. I'll post some shils and sides over the weekend for these ships. In the mean time, here are some teasers. [image]local://upfiles/17421/2F67EFB42CC045ECBEAAA04F2073AA2E.jpg[/image] EDIT: These ships are basically standard WITP:AE images which have been doctored up a bit. The bottom row are the original AE ship sides. Above are my conversions. The more I look at it, the more I have to agree regarding the Omahas as CVLs. As far as having enough good DP weapons, I suppose you could sacrifice some wartime BB production to free up resources for modernization, get rid of Vanguard and Howe maybe? Likely the Omaha CV would have ended up a lot like Langley did...used as a test platform and learning experience (after they figured out it wouldn't work), before being converted into a seaplane support ship. As far as ship sides I'm looking at, will have to compile a list...some already exist in the old WiTP add-on artwork...but some, like the Tillmans might be an interesting foray into over-built failures. [:D] Also looking into the feasibility of keeping some of the older ships in reserve service, seeing how there is no treaty to force their scrapping (obviously not talking turn of the century relics, but rather some of the WWI built ships that the various navies scrapped in favour of new tonnage). I have a reworked version of HMS Tiger and HMS Erin stashed somewhere on one of my hard drives. I'll have to dig them up. EDIT: The things about the Tllmans is that strictly speaking, they won't fit in the standard ship side frame.

GaryChildress -> RE: Gary's Never Was Workshop and Doodle Pad (10/10/2010 8:55:43 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Terminus The biggest weakness in AltNaval's building program, of which I was also a big fan, is the one that Mike's already touched on: too many carrier decks with no industrial or training capacity to build air groups for them. The IJN can use the auxiliaries better. Alt_naval's creator acknowledged this on his website as well. Maybe downgrading pilot training for the Navy a bit to churn out pilots a little faster would help. Or downsizing airgroups a bit to spread existing pilots over more decks. Or put money saved here and there into a larger training program as well as more aircraft production would help.

GaryChildress -> RE: Gary's Never Was Workshop and Doodle Pad (10/11/2010 12:46:35 AM)
Late war IJN answer to the Alaska class CBs. [image]local://upfiles/17421/3F7D66FCEB914CD59388BC68DC2A1600.jpg[/image]

GaryChildress -> RE: Gary's Never Was Workshop and Doodle Pad (10/11/2010 12:49:14 AM)
Here are the game files for project No 65.

traskott -> RE: Gary's Never Was Workshop and Doodle Pad (10/11/2010 12:49:28 AM)
Interesting... but, realistic ? At 1945, everybody knew that a CV was the answer to every ship the enemy could deploy...� edit: Thanks for the file !!! Downloaded... [;)]

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