Fire In the East scenario (Full Version)

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Grymme -> Fire In the East scenario (10/15/2010 8:50:47 PM)

A long time ago Captain Cruft started on a Ostfront II scenario. It was supposed to be 300*300 10km.

Well i got inspired to do what he got tired of. So i myself started on a 10km map of the eastern front a while ago (end of july).

So the map is more or less finished and i have also started development of my own Fire in the East scenario. The scenario will be playable either as Axis vs SU or as three vs three players with each AG a separate player and/or with different AGs sleeping.

So far i have done the following.
- Map (100% done)
- Graphics (80 % done)
- SFTs (90% done)
- Rulewars (80%)
- Placement of units AG Nord/Nortwestern direction (100% done)
- Placement of units AG Middle/Western direction (30 % done)
- Placement of units AG South/Southwestern direction (100% done)
- Events (5 % done)
- Reinforcement lists (1 % done)

Here is an overview map.



[image]local://upfiles/27522/CA91E768856F4BCFA822B5BEF8C51ED0.jpg[/image]



Grymme -> RE: Fitr In the East scenario (10/15/2010 8:58:23 PM)


As for the map.

Now my map will only be 248*295 hexes. Some areas will be in large be abstracted.

As for landscapes etc the following are included
Plains
Sea
Light forrest
Heavy forrest
Swamp
Hilly
Mountains
Peaks
Fortifications
Fortress
Coastal Water
Sand
Cultivated
Impassable
Arid
Artic

Road
Improved Road
Railroad

River
Large River
Super River
Canal.

The graphics might be placeholders for now, i might implement some DC:Wtp graphics or not. Will see.

Screenshot of Leninggrad area in 10km scale.

[image]local://upfiles/27522/965FB9B6EF514F2C9503C09F8F378AF4.jpg[/image]



Grymme -> RE: Fitr In the East scenario (10/15/2010 9:12:19 PM)

As for the SFTs i am using the old modified Ostfront masterfile with historical equipment with added finnish SFTs and naval units.

Conversion of this is horrible as always, there are now 279 SFTs that i have had to go through each one. But i think the result will be nice.

Units are on a regimental/divisional level on the german side with some battalions. On the soviet side units are generally divisions with some brigades and regiments. German basic HQs are Corps HQs. Soviet HQs are Army or Corps HQs.

Screenshot shows AG Nord with a closecapture of AG Nord with a zoom in of an Panzergrenadier Regiment

[image]local://upfiles/27522/EE3BE03D907144A2B429DDE70FF8CFC4.jpg[/image]



Grymme -> RE: Fitr In the East scenario (10/15/2010 9:26:36 PM)


So there are still a lot of work to be done. But i while hopefully get there eventually. If it will be with AT or AT gold i do not know.

If i have the strenght the scenario will have historical reinforcement lists similar to the ones in my previous Case Blue scenario.

As for events there will hopefully be some political events. The events i have worked on so far are mainly partisan events but also a "improve baltic relations" for the german player. Making baltic people more friendly to the german side and improve production/morale for freiwillige. Similar events can be made for Ukraine, Crimea etc.

Dagö & Ösel

[image]local://upfiles/27522/F1BF894652A0404CB254B97641D904D2.jpg[/image]



Grymme -> RE: Fitr In the East scenario (10/15/2010 9:34:17 PM)



And, just for fun. A couple of more screenshots. A couple of the screenshots are older, and some graphics have changed. Also there should be coastal waters around Dagö and Ösel for example. But i dont have the strength to make new screenshots.

The finnish karelian front

[image]local://upfiles/27522/2A3C16CB027B4C0CBFDBCC2F4F6D5743.jpg[/image]



Grymme -> RE: Fitr In the East scenario (10/15/2010 9:38:32 PM)



Moscow, with the Stalin channel going up to the north.



[image]local://upfiles/27522/B37920FB9CBF4DE194FC8FA60E416ED9.jpg[/image]



SMK-at-work -> RE: Fitr In the East scenario (10/16/2010 12:00:26 AM)

Sweet - I look forward to it



Khanti -> RE: Fitr In the East scenario (10/16/2010 10:01:40 AM)

I wish you good luck :)
PS: I hope you will find enough inner strenght to put in one piece :)
PS2: Please make all black-white pictures.



jjdenver -> RE: Fitr In the East scenario (10/19/2010 4:37:32 AM)

Grymme, looks great.

Hopefully you can implement some of the great ideas Capt Cruft had with AFV's and refits, and some of his other innovations.

I personally think this should be AT gold since it might release in Q1 or Q2 2011.

I look fwd to it. :)



Grymme -> RE: Fitr In the East scenario (10/20/2010 7:35:45 PM)

Thanks

As for if i ever finish this project. My wife just gave birth to twins three weeks ago. Right now i am on paternityleave untill beginning of november. So i have a little time to work on the project. After that, who knows? But in any case i have finished the map, without any masterfile turned on and i will upload it to my website eventually. That way anyone who wants a 10km map of the eastern front can download and use it. No use inventing the wheel twice right.

For now its all black and white pictures. But if it will get released with AT-gold i dont know if it will stay that way. Copyright issues. But i can always release it on my own. So far all programming has been done in AT. I have a couple of ideas for AT-gold. But will wait to implement them so that it can be released for AT no matter what changes are made to AT-gold.

JJdenver. What were Captain Crufts idea for refits? Do you remember? I would very much like to somehow simulate the different railgauges in europe/SU. But it can be a tough nut to crack. So i am holding that of until now.

Any ideas for events are welcome.

Just a small sample of the workload i have. Since i imported normal terrain to my custom masterfile i recently found out that i have to redo all landscape modifiers for all SFTs. Thats two modifiers for 16 landscapes for 278 SFTs for a total of 8896 values to enter. And not very fun work. But so far i have done roughtly 54 % of them.

Anyway. We will see what happens. In the meantime i can reccommend the book "Germany and the second world war - Vol IV attack on the Soviet Union". Its probably the best researched and most detailed book on the beginning of the war. 1 300! pages just on the period before the attack and up to the spring of 1942.

A small screenshot of the outskirts of the Pripet Marches.

[image]local://upfiles/27522/0D91A5288BA34E2587484E6990B5621B.jpg[/image]



Widell -> RE: Fitr In the East scenario (10/20/2010 11:26:03 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Grymme
As for if i ever finish this project. My wife just gave birth to twins three weeks ago..... So i have a little time to work on the project.


Congratulations! Sounds as if you'll have your work cut out for the next couple of years! We had our second daughter on August 1st and it reduces your computer time dramatically[:)]. All the best to you and your family and of course we are all waiting eagerly for more of your superb scenarios as well!



Khanti -> RE: Fitr In the East scenario (10/22/2010 7:08:14 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Grymme
(...)
As for if i ever finish this project. My wife just gave birth to twins three weeks ago. Right now i am on paternityleave untill beginning of november. So i have a little time to work on the project. After that, who knows? But in any case i have finished the map, without any masterfile turned on and i will upload it to my website eventually. That way anyone who wants a 10km map of the eastern front can download and use it. No use inventing the wheel twice right.
(...)
A small screenshot of the outskirts of the Pripet Marches.


Nice, congratulations.

My hint: If you will be putting peoples on map, please remember that there were other types than Russians/Soviets and Germans/Finns.

Most eastern part of SU is Soviet occupied Polish territory: Brest-Litvovsk is Brzesc nad Bugiem (Polish people), the same Grodno, Wilno (Vilnius), Lwow (Lvov), Tarnopol, Stanislawow, Luck. These peoples should not produce with 100% efficiency for neither side.

Northern part is Balts territory (Lithuania, Latvia, Estonia): they were just conquered by Soviets and disliked them much. And they were rather German sympathizers than Soviets friends. Should have different efficiency for German/Soviet regimes.





Grymme -> RE: Fitr In the East scenario (10/24/2010 8:39:15 PM)

As i have night-kiddy watch, and both are sleeping i have time to answer your question/suggestion Hanti.

I am fairly well versed in history, and have bought at least three books on the eastern campaign to study up on the subject.

As of now, the following "peoples" are included in the scenario. (some are not actually peoples, but will be handled that way because its the easiest way in the editor).
Germans
SS
Finns
Hungarians
Romanians
Croatians
Slovakians
Soviet Union (russians + a lot of smaller minorities)
NKVD
Italians
Spaniards
Luftwaffe
LL (soviet airforce, might get deleted)
FARR (or RONA, pro german liberation army, might get deleted)
Guards
Siberians
Estonians
Latvians
Lithouanians
and Ukrainians

might include some mass-grouping for the caucasian peoples also.

For the Baltic peoples they have the historical SU units from the start (if my sources are correct). I attach a screenshot showing the SU 179th Rifle Division made up with Lithouanian personell. The reason its the 179th division is that historicly the 179th and 184th Rifle Divisions were made up with Lithouanian personell (184th Rifle Division can also be seen in the screenshot). In the same way 181st and 183rd Rifle Divisions had Latvian personell and 180th and 182nd Rifle Divisions historicly had estonian personell and will have so in the scenario. Baltic cities will start of will a small production for the Axis side, but that will be able to be improved using the actioncard "improve baltic relations" (using the same card for all three nations). Also in the beginning of the war there will be Latvian partisans appearing in Latvia, Estonian in Estonia and Lithouanian in Lithouania, all fighting for the axis (as they did). There will of course also be Soviet partisans appearing eventually, but to a much lesser degree than in the rest of the SU to reflect the Baltic pro-german stance.

Hopefully similar events etc will be constructed for other peoples. But this is what i generally had in mind for the Baltic peoples, as an example.

Of course no scenario can have everything right historicly. Because of the AT limit of 8 SFTtypes per unit the units will be quite simplified. But i have made some work on them also. For example. At the start of the campaign 5 german panzerdivisions were equipped mainly with chech tanks. In this scenario this will be true, and it will be the right ones. Also two of the panzerdivisions had 3 tank battalions (6th Pz and 17th Pz, the other ones had only 2). This will also be reflected in the game so that they will have an extra battalion of tanks.

As for including the polish people as a people. I will have to think about that. I know that there was a polish emigré army organized in the Soviet Union during the eastern campaign (under general Anders i think). But i also think it was sent to Iran and then to the meditteranian theater and never fought on the eastern front. Other than partisan action the main polish action would then be the uprising in 1944. But i am not sure that warrants including the poles as a people. Of course if you can show me that the Poles were involved in the fighting at at least divisonal level i might be more inclined to include them. The reason i am using Soviet/western style name on the Polish cities is that they are more familiar to me than the polish ones and that the territory at the time were SU territory. By the way. My wife is Ukrainian, and as i have understood it eastern poland/western ukraine/belorussia has always been a meltingpot of peoples. So to say that Lwow was an etnicly polish city at the start of WWII i think is to simplify things, werent there a lot of Ukrainians also?

Axis productionlocations are highly abstracted, and mainly placed outside the normal map. Warsaw is a supply location though.

EDIT.

Widell. Congratulations yourself.

Actually i see now there was also the Berling Army http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Polish_Armed_Forces_in_the_East

As i said, i will think about including the poles.

[image]local://upfiles/27522/73EC753806B948CBA68B2446F020902C.jpg[/image]



SMK-at-work -> RE: Fitr In the East scenario (10/24/2010 10:56:12 PM)

Ah...parenthood.....the toughest and most rewarding game of all :)  Good luck to you both! :)

On the subject of "National" divisions in the Soviet Army - they were not solely made up of the nationalities concerned - many Russians and other nationalities were drafted into them to make up numbers when required too - eg the 181st was formed from former Latvian units, but was understrength, and on mobilisation was supposed to be filled with troops from Moscow - needless to say that never happened!

All the senior personnel were replaced with Soviets in all these units, and they were considered unreliable until that happened...and sometimes not reliable even after :/

Plus of course many of them had non-standard equipment - the 180th had British 18lb field guns with only 500 rounds per gun available.  Presumably it had standard Soviet equipment by the time it was redesignated the 28th Guards Division in May 1942!  The 179th didn't get modern 122mm artillery until 1944 - until then it had M10/30 howitzers dating to before WW1, and it remained horse drawn for the whole war!

On the other hand, the 184th was formed from the 2nd Lithuanian division, and when disbanded some if its troops were probably used to reinforce the 179th, maintaining some national character.



Grymme -> RE: Fitr In the East scenario (10/25/2010 4:42:39 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: SMK-at-work

Ah...parenthood.....the toughest and most rewarding game of all :)  Good luck to you both! :)

On the subject of "National" divisions in the Soviet Army - they were not solely made up of the nationalities concerned - many Russians and other nationalities were drafted into them to make up numbers when required too - eg the 181st was formed from former Latvian units, but was understrength, and on mobilisation was supposed to be filled with troops from Moscow - needless to say that never happened!

All the senior personnel were replaced with Soviets in all these units, and they were considered unreliable until that happened...and sometimes not reliable even after :/

Plus of course many of them had non-standard equipment - the 180th had British 18lb field guns with only 500 rounds per gun available.  Presumably it had standard Soviet equipment by the time it was redesignated the 28th Guards Division in May 1942!  The 179th didn't get modern 122mm artillery until 1944 - until then it had M10/30 howitzers dating to before WW1, and it remained horse drawn for the whole war!

On the other hand, the 184th was formed from the 2nd Lithuanian division, and when disbanded some if its troops were probably used to reinforce the 179th, maintaining some national character.




SMK. Thanks. You seem very knowledgeable. Are you especially interested in the baltic countries or generally for the soviet army? Do you have a source for the information on artillery equipment etc. Because i might be interested in getting it myself. The main sources i have used/have available for the scenario are
- "The organization and order of battles of militaries in World War II vol I, vol V A, vol V b", by Charles Pettibone
- "Germany and the second world war, Vol IV- attack on the soviet union",
- "Barbarossa - the russian german conflict 1941-45" by Alan Clark
- "When Titans Clashed" by Glantz (i think)
- "The Encyclopedia of equipment of world war II" edited by Chris Bishop
- "Andra världskriget" vol 1, 3
- "www.niehorster.orbat.com"
- "The Nafzigher OOB collection"
- "Verbaende und Truppern der deutchen Wehrmacht und Waffen-SS im Zweiten Weltkrig 1939-45" by Tessin.
- The Fire in the East-scenario for TOAWIII


As for the details of your description of the baltic units. I will only model the units on the 22nd of june 1941. After that its up to people themselves to combine/equip units. And sadly i think i wont have enough time to construct SFTs for all odd equipments, but we will see. As i said i would be very interested in knowing where you got your info. And do you have any info on which units were raised in Ukraine? Also for example i would be interested in info (for example) of which mechanized corps were understrength etc.



Captain Cruft -> RE: Fitr In the East scenario (10/31/2010 9:57:25 PM)

Wow! Kudos. I just don't have the patience to do the map, let alone the rest of it, and the editor drives me totally mad.

Perhaps I can assist with this though?

  • Refits - This was implemented using SFType mutation. The problem with it wasn't the refitting or upgrading of the German AFVs it was the conversion of the old vehicles into their Hungarian/Romanian variants. So you can have it if you just want the first part. See the original Ostfront for the action card definitions.
  • Rail Gauge - I worked out a fully workable scheme for this using buildable/destroyable Loctypes. In fact I seem to remember posting the test scen for it on this forum. I can provide it again if necessary. The only "problem" with it is that you also really need to create a "no rail" river type to block rail movement through hexsides where it shouldn't be allowed. I never got round to doing this.

BTW I was thinking of rolling the MGs and mortars into the Rifle SFTypes. They just basically clutter things up, are a pain to think about for production and if you remove them infantry units will generally have more slots free.

It then becomes more of a tanks, men and guns type of game.



Grymme -> RE: Fitr In the East scenario (11/11/2010 9:04:10 PM)

Thanks Captain. Your first Ostfront scenario is what inspired me to start modding east front scenarios in the first place. So i have a tremendous respect for your effort.

I will be uploading the map shortly (or when i have the strenght/time so that anyone can make their own scenario if my effort should fall short.

As for the railway conversion which i think we were having a discussion about at the time i am thinking of implementing a sollution that will be possible in AT-gold but that is not possible right now. But if i do it it will be really cool. It revolves around having two different train types and two different railwaytypes (roadtypes).

Right now development is going at a snails pace. But i will get there.

And i made an event where the SU has an option of recruiting a polish rifle corps. So there will be poles :)

Feel free to suggest events. The main efforts left are the events and the reinforcement lists. The reinforcement lists are a pain.

Here is the SU reinforcements, just for round 2

NORTHWESTERN DIRECTION
Unit appears in Vologda unless otherwise specified

Round
2
14th Recon Regiment
65th Recon Regiment
59th Recon Regiment
34th Recon Regiment
52nd Recon Regiment
55th Recon Regiment
54th Recon Regiment
246th Rifle Division
21st Motorized NKVD Rifle Division

WESTERN DIRECTION
Unit appears in Penza unless otherwise specified

Round
2
31st Army HQ
38th Recon Regiment
39th Recon Regiment
64th Recon Regiment
49th Recon Regiment
57nd Recon Regiment
43th Recon Regiment
48th Recon Regiment
50th Recon Regiment
244th Rifle Division
266th Rifle Division
265th Rifle Division
247th Rifle Division
251st Rifle Division
262nd Rifle Division
248th Rifle Division
256th Rifle Division
254th Rifle Divison
245th Rifle Division
252nd Rifle Division

SOUTHWESTERN DIRECTION
Unit appears in Engels unless otherwise specified

Round
2
66th Recon regiment
61st Recon Regiment
40th Recon Regiment
51st Recon Regiment
56th Recon Regiment
44th Recon Regiment
46th Recon Regiment
47th Recon Regiment
57th Tank Division

_______________________

And the obligatory screenshot shows Odessa


[image]local://upfiles/27522/C4E518400AB94554980935B281D064FD.jpg[/image]



Grymme -> RE: Fitr In the East scenario (11/11/2010 9:11:02 PM)


And, just for Kicks, here is an Axis and SU HQ OOB

OOB Soviet Union

North Western Direction HQ (Leningrad)
Northern Front HQ (Petrozavodsk)
14th Army HQ
7th Army HQ
23rd Army HQ
Northwestern Front HQ (Leningrad)
1st Mechanized Corps HQ (1st Tank Division detached)
10th Mechanized Corps HQ
Baltic Fleet HQ
Baltic Front HQ (Riga)
8th Army HQ
11th Army HQ
27th Army HQ
12th Mechanized Corps HQ
3rd Mechanized Corps HQ
5th Airborne Corps HQ
Archangelsk Military District HQ (Vologda)
North Sea Red Fleet HQ

Western Direction HQ (Moscow)
Western Front HQ (Minsk)
13th Army HQ
3rd Army HQ
10th Army HQ
4th Army HQ
22nd Army HQ
11th Mechanized Corps HQ
13th Mechanized Corps HQ
17th Mechanized Corps HQ
20th Mechanized Corps HQ
4th Airborne Corps HQ
Orel Front HQ (Orel)
21st Army HQ
23rd Mechanized Corps HQ
5th Mechanized Corps HQ
Moscow Front HQ (Moscow)
20th Army HQ
24th Army HQ
7th Mechanized Corps HQ
21st Mechanized Corps HQ

Southwestern Direction HQ (Kharkov)
Southwestern Front HQ (Kiev)
5th Army HQ
6th Army HQ
26th Army HQ
12th Army HQ
19th Army HQ
8th Mechanized Corps HQ
15th Mechanized Corps HQ
4th Mechanized Corps HQ
16th Mechanized Corps HQ
24th Mechanized Corps HQ
9th Mechanized Corps HQ
19th Mechanized Corps HQ
Stalin Line HQ
1st Airborne Corps HQ
Southern Front HQ (Odessa)
9th Separate Army HQ
18th Army HQ
2nd Mechanized Corps HQ
18th Mechanized Corps HQ
5th Airborne Corps HQ
Black Sea Fleet HQ
Kharkov Front HQ (Kharkov)
25th Mechanized Corps HQ
North Caucasus Front HQ (Cherkessy)
37th Army HQ
44th Army HQ
26th Mechanized Corps HQ
Stalingrad Front HQ (Stalingrad)
Transcaucasus Front HQ (Tblisi)
45th Army HQ
47th Army HQ
46th Army HQ
28th Mechanized Corps HQ

OOB Axis

Armeegruppe Nord HQ
18th Army HQ
XXVI Korps HQ
I Korps HQ
XXXVIII Korps HQ
4th Panzergruppe HQ
LVI Mot Korps HQ
XXXI Mot Korps HQ
16th Army HQ
XXIII Korps HQ
X Korps HQ
XXVIII Korps HQ
II Korps HQ
RHG Area 101
Baltic Naval group Nord HQ

Army of Norway HQ
HQ Finland
XIX Gebirgsjäger Korps HQ
XXXVI Gebirgsjäger Korps HQ
Finnish Army HQ
II Corps HQ
IV Corps HQ
VI Corps HQ
VII Corps HQ

Armeegruppe Mitte HQ
LIII Korps HQ
9th Army HQ
VIII Korps HQ
XX Korps HQ
LXII Korps HQ
3rd Panzergruppe HQ
XXXIX Mot Korps HQ
V Korps HQ
VI Korps HQ
LVII Mot Korps HQ
4th Army HQ
VII Korps HQ
XIII Korps HQ
IX Korps HQ
XXXXIII Korps HQ
2nd Panzergruppe HQ
XXXXVII Mot Korps HQ
XII Korps HQ
XXIV Mot Korps HQ
XXXXVI Mot Korps HQ
RHG Area 102

Armeegruppe Sud HQ
Armygroup Antonescu HQ
3rd Army HQ
4th Army HQ
1st Reserver Army HQ
11th Army HQ
LIV Korps HQ
XXX Korps HQ
XI Korps HQ
17th Army HQ
LII Korps HQ
XXXXIX Gebirgsjäger Korps HQ
IV Korps HQ
1st Panzergruppe HQ
XIV Motorisierte Korps HQ
XXXXVII Motorisierte Korps HQ
XXIX Korps HQ
III Motorisierte Korps HQ
6th Army HQ
XXXXIV Korps HQ
XVII Korps HQ
Hungarian Royal Army HQ
Carpathian Army Group HQ
Slovak Expeditionary Group HQ
C.S.I.R HQ
RHG Area 102



Grymme -> RE: Fire In the East scenario (11/11/2010 11:31:34 PM)

Here is an example of the kind of events i am implementing

LEND LEASE THROUGH BARENTS SEA

Each round there is a small chance of a Lend Lease Convoy appearing in the north. The convoy will appear in Murmansk. Should Murmansk be occupied by the Axis then the convoy will appear in Archangelsk instead.

The convoy will contain a random amount of trucks & aircraft for the SU side. The equipment will be specificly western. LL trucks, P39Q Aircobra, Bristol Blenheims and Hawker Hurricanes.

The following factors will influence the chance that a convoy will appear.

- If Murmansk is axis occupied there is a smaller chance of a convoy appearing in Archangelsk than if the convoy could land in Murmansk.

- If the Axis in any turn have a a certain number of forces in the Barents sea (defined as the sea area east of the finnish/SU border) then the chance that an convoy will appear will be much smaller.

- From 1942 and forward the chance of a convoy appearing will in general be larger (US entry into the war).


----------------
Beginning of turn screenshot.



[image]local://upfiles/27522/F255B585215F4F21A1B193563886078A.jpg[/image]



Jeffrey H. -> RE: Fire In the East scenario (11/12/2010 7:59:28 PM)

Wow, you're really outdoing yourself Grymme. "hat's off' to you.



Grymme -> RE: Fire In the East scenario (11/12/2010 9:16:44 PM)

Thanks. I am actually quite proud of the map. It feels like a piece of art.

Speaking of the map. I have now uploaded the basic map to my website if someone wants to check it out. Its the whole map painted, but in basic terrain with no units, locations etc. Also it doesnt have the 10 or so black hexes to the west (or the 100 or so smaller changes i have made since then). Nevertheless it represents 2-3 months of hard work painting the ca 72 000 hexes. And people can feel free to just check it out or use it as a basis for their own mod.

Here is the page

http://web.comhem.se/olvmyr3/FITE.html

I will most likely upload some sort of limited scenario later on, like i did with DAK. Something like playing AG North for 1941 or similar.

I am still working on the events. Aside from the known events it will also have 50-150 secret events. Its a concept i developed in DAK that i really like. The game will be more fun if everything cannot be calculated and it will force players playing more intuitive (of course if you are a modder you can always open the scenario in the editor and check it out).



Captain Cruft -> RE: Fire In the East scenario (11/15/2010 5:59:05 PM)

Just stunning.

I haven't played AT for ages, but if you want a play-tester I'm your man. There were very few players willing to take on the original Ostfront and this is about 10 times bigger/more complex so you might struggle to find any other takers.



Captain Cruft -> RE: Fire In the East scenario (11/15/2010 6:06:33 PM)

Ah ... I just noticed Kronstadt.

Are the sea hexes on both sides "Soviet only"? You can't model CD guns but there should be no way that any German ships can get past it to Leningrad proper. At least that was what my research at the time told me.

Another thing I had decided on but not implemented was a serious re-jigging of the terrain entrenchment values. You need to crank them up as far as they can go (999?) to get anything like the sort of defense bonus that urban and other difficult terrain should provide. Again I have the stuff somewhere ...



Grymme -> RE: Fire In the East scenario (11/15/2010 7:11:59 PM)

I might take you up on the playtesting thing, when it gets there. I am hoping to attract the FITE people from TOAWIII or the WITP people. Hopefully they might find that you can do the same thing in AT (or nearly) but a turn will take you 20% of the time. (for the record, i know the historical equipment database of TOAWIII is huge, but then there is such a thing as no production and a 2000 unit limit!)

As for the Kronstadt hex. They are not Soviet hexes only as of now. I will look into it, as i can see there is atleast a good 5km on each side of the Island proper, but there seem to be some causeways there or something. To somewhat model coastal guns i have made Emplaced artillery +50% into sea water hexes, but that will probably not cut it. But on the other hand i think the fact that the germans did not go into Leningrad with their navy has as much to do with the general situation as with anything else. If you have 1-2 old cruisers and less than 10 destroyers to spare i would not attack into the entire soviet baltic navy, aircraft, mines and artillery myself. I think that will be reflected in the scenario. Also i think it will be quite possible to model mines much better in AT-gold than in AT.

But i will see. Right now anything is up for grabs.

I agree that bad terrain is a little bit lame in AT.



Captain Cruft -> RE: Fire In the East scenario (11/15/2010 8:17:19 PM)

You're obviously well on the case with Kronstadt ... :-)

How are you finding out what AT Gold will have in it? I have not found much either here or at Vic's site.

FWIW I will post here some of the changes I made for the last version of vanilla Ostfront, which I don't think I ever "published". Play-testing showed that the Germans had a far too easy time of it.



Grymme -> RE: Fire In the East scenario (11/15/2010 8:43:56 PM)

I hope i am not saying to mucn about AT-gold. But i would hazard a guess and say that if you look into what is happening in Vics other newly released game DC:WTP you will see what can be done in a similar to AT engine.

Sure, you are welcome. If you are interested you can always play around with some event code and it could be imported right into the scenario, if you have some ideas.

Right now i have my parentinlaws here, so i once again find i have some 30 minutes to spare sometimes to work on it. I am doing some less serious things. Like adding the finnish Lagus armoured battalion, Stug Abts, turkish navy etc.



Grymme -> RE: Fire In the East scenario (11/15/2010 8:56:55 PM)

One thing i would like any ideas about is how to model finnish political considerations when it comes to advance beyond the "finnish greater are". Historicly the finns stopped well before they were militarily forced to, because of political consideration.

The question would be how to model this. the simplest thing would be if it was possible to check powerpoints from a certain people in an area, but that doesnt seem to be possible. So any ideas are welcome.

Btw. Captain. You have a PM



Captain Cruft -> RE: Fire In the East scenario (11/15/2010 9:06:48 PM)

You can basically remove all units of Finnish Peopletype beyond the designated stop line. There is an Exec to do this using area codes, I think. You could probably give a message in warning a couple of turns beforehand by incrementing a variable. My memory is dim, but it's definitely possible.

This event could perhaps be over-ridden by some territorial conditions or something. I like the idea of the Finns roaming free under certain circumstances.



Grymme -> RE: Fire In the East scenario (11/15/2010 9:18:35 PM)

I agree. The idea is that the germans will be able to use political leverage (if their relationship is good enough) to push the finns forward. In the same way the SU union can influence them to stop. Removing all units sound kind of harsh, but it would most definatly work as a deterent :)



Grymme -> RE: Fire In the East scenario (11/28/2010 5:10:05 PM)

Have been working on the scenario on and off the last two weeks when i have had the chance. Not much, but i spend what little free time i have on it.

- a lot of small fixes in events, map, units etc.
- added turkish army including 14 turkish SFTs with itemtypes and location.
- also added the following SFTs

PzKfw I (also represents kleine befehlswagen)
Matilda MkI/II
BA-64 (renamed soviet recon to BA-10/20)
SdKfz234 (renamed german recon to SdKfz 231/222)
T-35
T-37/40 (amphibious light tanks)
PzKfw II (amph)
Light Cruiser (readjusted cruiser numbers a little and renamed it heavy cruiser).

- Have made soviet tank divisions roughly historical so that some contain as much as 500 tanks while others only have 20. Also the number of KV and t34 tanks in each division is now roughly historical.
- Redid the german Airleader Baltic commando.
- Have made german tank divisions roughly historical and doled out PzkpfwI and the amphibious battalion in 18th Pz Regiment. Also added PzJ1b and Sig33 to their historical unit assignements.
- Changed the ratio of 88mm Flak to 20/37mm Flak (there were far to many 88mm)
- Changed a lot of artillery regiments and all german reconnoisance battalions).
- Started to make soviet air units more historical (regiments instead of divisions, have done most of Nortwest Direction so far).
- working on historical reinforcement lists ( i am on turn 25 for axis and 14 for SU).
- Working on the political system.
- Added a couple of security units to Norway and Greece.
- Implemented Polish partisans.

My next big project will be to redo the research system.

Screenshot shows SU 34th Tank Division. The only division in the SU forces blessed (cursed actually) with the Soviet Union T-35 five turreted monstrosity of a tank :) Each AFV SFT represents 9-12 vehicles.





[image]local://upfiles/27522/58AA22058E4D4AB0BABCB4E146B46AE3.jpg[/image]



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