Help playtest my SP: Modern Mod. (Full Version)

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J.Wood -> Help playtest my SP: Modern Mod. (8/21/2002 6:50:33 PM)

Anyone remember the talk of a modern warfare mod for SPWAW a while back? Well, since it didn't come to pass...I went and made one myself. It's got choppers, ATGMs, antiaircraft missiles, jets, cluster bombs, fuel-air rockets, IFVs, arty submunitions, claymores, the works. So far I've done beta versions of the US Army and Soviet Union OOB. I've wracked my brains trying to get the details right, but with 250 units each it's hard to be perfect, so I'm looking for people to help playtest it before I give it out en masse. I've used the existing sounds and icons to replicate modern equipment as closely as possible, although things like helicopters I had to use aircraft for ...etc. But overall, it seems to work. Time period covered is Korean War-Present. I've had some problems getting certain units to show up in the purchase screens on certain years, if anyone can help with that it'd be great. Otherwise, I want suggestions/corrections/accuracy testing from willing participants. If this sounds good to you, email me at [email]consume@shaw.ca[/email] and I'll send you the OOBs. If this project of mine turns out to be something people like, I'll probably end up doing OOBs for Israel, the middle east, China, Taiwan, Vietnam, N. Korea, Germany, UK, Canada, etc. Thanks for your attention.

J



M4Jess -> (8/21/2002 8:39:25 PM)

on a word..... [FONT=century gothic][SIZE=4][COLOR=red]WOW![/COLOR] [/SIZE] [/FONT]


I may not be able to spend alot of time per week, but I would be happy to help where I can

M4 Jess



Warhorse -> (8/21/2002 10:58:56 PM)

Were you able to re-instate the helicopter level screen, or no? Also would be nice to have the reactive armor and all, but this is coding issues after all, correct? I've been playing a generated campaign with the Communist Chinese, a time-travel theme, as it were, they use modern equipment, and the AT missiles, SAM's, and minelets all seem to work well. The only problem is we have a 255 cap on armor thickness, so the armor values for afv's will be waaaaay off!!



J.Wood -> (8/21/2002 11:20:15 PM)

Helicopters stay at min altitude as far as I can tell...which isn't that bad, considering that's what almost all modern helos do if they want to avoid getting popped by AAGMs. As far as reactive armour goes, I kludged it by giving vehicles that have it very high armour skirt ratings. Not perfect, but it does tend to make vehicles more resistant to HEAT rounds. As for the armour/weapon penetration cap, I got around that by simply dividing all the real-world values by 5. Thus far, I haven't noticed any really wierd behaviour so that seemed to have worked. The hard part was guessing the relative thickness of stuff like the Bradley's composite aluminum hull, or chobham type armour, but I tried to be scientific about it by assigning a multiplier that I used across the board. [aluminum alloy is 66% of the strength of an equivalent thickness of RHA, chobham is between 150% and 200% based on quality]. One annoyance was not being able to find the armour angles on almost all the vehicles, I had to make guesses based on pictures...I'm going to try to update the angles when I get access to a protractor so I can measure them exactly.

Anyway, thanks for your interest. I'll mail you guys the OOBs right now.

J



fontenoy -> (8/22/2002 3:26:54 AM)

Hello J,
I would be very interested in trying your mod.Please.One question.Do these Oob's replace the existing ones entirely or do they increase them?eg;1930-2002.Either way I am willing to try them.Thank you.
Regards,
Fontenoy.



Bing -> (8/22/2002 3:34:45 AM)

What's the max screen resolution you are working with? The "other" modern WAW mod uses antiquated screen rez that is just plain awful to look at.

Bing



sami heimola -> (8/22/2002 3:56:38 AM)

Mr. Wood, do you mean that you have done "right" icons for tanks (as Abrams, T-90) too? Not only OOBs? Maybe this is silly question but I just wanted to know before I say "yes" or "no"...

Sounds interesting anyway:p.



Warhorse -> (8/22/2002 6:55:38 AM)

Sami, as yet he has just done the oob's, two of them, and used existing icons to test it out, if enough folks like it, then he would presumeably do icons to, right J??



troopie -> (8/22/2002 8:21:51 AM)

Could you e-mail me one too?

troopie



G_X -> (8/22/2002 8:23:11 AM)

There's another "Modern WaW"?

Erm, I was under the impression WaW doesn't have a Modern version. Methinks you're thinking of SPMBT. :p

And I ~would~ love to test it out, but I can't be shuffling OOBs back and forth all the time, sorry, I just can't make two installs of WaW.



Bing -> (8/22/2002 9:36:21 AM)

The world is waiting for the reply: What's the screen rez? As bad or worse than the other modern WAW mod?

Bing



J.Wood -> (8/22/2002 11:42:50 AM)

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Warhorse
[B]Sami, as yet he has just done the oob's, two of them, and used existing icons to test it out, if enough folks like it, then he would presumeably do icons to, right J?? [/B][/QUOTE]

Right you are. I'm not an artist, and haven't the first clue about making icons in any event, so that will have to be taken up by someone else, if at all. However, I did make a pretty thorough attempt of choosing icons that somewhat resemble the vehicles they're supposed to be. If purdy graffikz are less important than the game itself to you, it shouldn't be a problem I hope:)

J



J.Wood -> (8/22/2002 11:45:29 AM)

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Bing
[B]The world is waiting for the reply: What's the screen rez? As bad or worse than the other modern WAW mod?

Bing [/B][/QUOTE]

Up until today, I didn't even know that other SP Modern game existed. Anyway, mine is just an OOB edit of SP:WAW, nothing is changed other than the unit data of the relevant countries. Other than new units and equipment it is identical to regular SPWAW.

J



sami heimola -> (8/22/2002 10:30:37 PM)

Hey J. Wood and Warhorse!

How about making some co-operation (what comes to "right" icons)? And how about getting some iconguru(s) with you too? Is it any way possible to take them from SP2/SPMBT for example? Bit size changes into SPWAW's scale and that's it?

Or is this too big work to do? Just 2 OOBs and some new icons...

Too good idea to be reality:p?

Sami



Frank W. -> (8/23/2002 12:21:25 AM)

can you send me to OOB,too??

[email]electromusic@arcor.de[/email]

thx.



Warhorse -> (8/23/2002 2:02:19 AM)

I would help on this, with icons, but have waaaay too much on my platter as it is now!! So many ideas, so little time:(



Bing -> (8/24/2002 12:05:47 AM)

Msr. Wood - Yes, there is "another" modern WAW but never mind.

Yours - if I understnad correctly - uses the current WAW engine (the other doesn't), therefore whatever screen rez we get now we will get with your creation. All right!!

I have the time, I will devote large chunks of time to testing and playing - whatever you need in the way of feedback. (I did some of the beta testing for Watchtower, I am listed there as one of the testers.) I have also assisted several designers in scenario testing and will provide an extensive and thorough analysis.

Send right away, before tonight's Fizmo State vs. Cheeseheads college football game. Will start immediately, if not sooner.

All right!! I have BCT and just can't get going with it.Modern is very appealing. Send quickly!!! to:

[email]binglesh@chartermi.net[/email]

Cable ISP, don't matter how big the file is. If questions I'll holler, be sure to include your private e-mail address.

Bing



Bing -> (8/24/2002 12:24:53 AM)

P.S. Here is what I got from sending a message to your private e-mail address:

"Your message cannot be delivered to the following recipients:

Recipient address: @pd3ims1.prod.shaw.ca:consume@shaw.ca
Original address: [email]consume@shaw.ca[/email]
Reason: Remote SMTP server has rejected address
Diagnostic code: smtp;550 5.1.1 unknown or illegal alias: @pd3ims1.prod.shaw.ca:consume@shaw.ca
Remote system: dns;pd3ims1.prod.shaw.ca (TCP|10.0.162.216|60755|10.0.122.169|11025)"

Maybe they just don't like you today?

Bing



G_X -> (8/24/2002 9:27:51 AM)

If it doesn't use the WaW engine, then it's...gasp....not WaW.

I think, Bing, that you mean SPMBT, which has nothing to do with WaW, and is 1/10th the size of WaW, and is still a DOS game. The Screen Rez for SPMBT is 640x480, while for WaW I think it's 800x600, or 1024x728



Bing -> (8/24/2002 12:46:04 PM)

I wouldn't say SP had nothing to do with WAW; unless I have history wrong WAW is descended from SP. So there is a connection, I think most would agree.

WAW is 800 X 600 - I would love for it to be 1024 X 768 and if you can get it to run at that resolution please let us know how you did it.

Jamie's OOB's work pretty darn well. I just had M1A2 Abrams plugging away at T-90's, Apaches flying all over the place, LInebackers shooting down Su-24 Frogfoot - is more than one FrogFEET? - and hosing down infantry, Bradleys making an end run - lots of fun. I would recommend leaving the cruise missile out of the game until it is checked further. And you need to have a large map with clear sight lines and ~45 hex visibility to get the best out of modern warfare in WAW.

I like it thus far and will be playing JAM (Jamie's Modern) a lot. Nice change from smelly Shermans and indestructible Tigers. A-10 Warthogs are NASTY. Love'em. Hope to do a PBEM game pretty soon, thus far I"ve done just one generated battle of 10.,000 points solo - this is not a lot of points when buying Abrams and missile equipment.

BTW, the Patriot, Hawk and Chapparral are in JAM. Unless you are up against enemy level bombers the Pat seems a bit of overkill, but you don't have to use it either. No, I haven't checked the Ruskies for Scuds.

If you are partial to modern warfare, give JAM a try. You might really like it.

Bing



sami heimola -> (8/24/2002 5:39:43 PM)

Mr. Wood, could you send those OOBs for me too? This sounds so interesting idea:)...

My address: [email]sami.heimola@pp.inet.fi[/email]



OKW-73 -> (8/25/2002 2:33:23 AM)

wow..this sounds really great idea :) i dont like SPMBT cause bad graphics so idea to make modern warfare mod for spwaw is superb! :D



sami heimola -> (8/25/2002 3:16:41 AM)

Hmm... Could anyone "move" SPMBT/SP2's tank icons into SPWAW? Is it possible to do or not? Inf/artillery could be as they are now right?

Well, OKW, I liked SPMBT's tank/airplane graphics (especially Russian tanks) very much:D... They could be nice to see in SPWAW's environment:p.

Sami



Larry Smith -> SP MBT Icons (8/26/2002 2:08:52 AM)

The SP MBT Icon palettes are structured differently from SP WAW. I have tried to cross-breed them and the results were quite unpleasant. However, if you look in the Chandra folder in you SPWAW directory, you'll find a master list of icons. Its just that you have to reset the icons in an editor, then boot up the game to see if you did it right. I tried to make a King Tiger look like a Challanger, but used the wrong number, and got a Mig23.



Bing -> (8/26/2002 2:58:27 AM)

How about chopper graphics? JAM seriously needs these for US and Soviet - plus helo .WAV files.

BTW, if you want the Sov 2S9 and 2S23 120mm SP Mortars to appear in the purchase screen, open the Sov OOB in SPWAWEditor.exe - change the SP Mortar designation for these two units to "SP artillery" and they will show up, ready for action against the Imperialist Dogs.

My guess is that the game engine has no slot for Soviet "SP Mortar" - certainly does for other nations but not Sov - so anything that gets into an OOB classified as "SP Mortar" is a day late and a dollar short.

I am getting a JAM scenario ready - naturally a fictional engagement between US and Sov - in the Motherland, somewhere near the justifiably obscure town of Pokadanoza.

JAM is fun - ast first the helo "evasion" was irritating, then funny, then I learned how to actually use it to get to where I want the chopper to go. Zig-zagging across the landscape, dodging SA missiles all the way - to date I have lost an Apache to roughly every fifteen or twenty smokies tossed at them.

We can't do popups and nap of the earth - would be nice if one of the talented programmers could do us a mod for this - but you certainly can follow the terrain: Staying behind a hill or general rise in terrain will make you untrackable, but don't get careless. The moment the tracking unit has an LOS you will have incoming fire. From 50 and 60 hexes out, depends upon the viz you've set. Pokadanoza will feature a 100 X 240 map, summer time and sixty hex visibility.

Any takers for a test PBEM run? Both sides have a heavy tank company, an elite infantry company, gobs of helos, SP arty and mortars, too many AT and AA missiles to count, TOW units and HUMVV's running all over the place with AGL that are great to chew up infantry. so are M6 Linebackers. A-10 Warthogs - Su-24 Fencers and Su-25 Frogfeet. (More than one has to be "Frogfeet" doesn't it?)

My feeling at the moment is JAM tilts the playing field to the extent play versus AI isn't much of a challenge unless artificial constraints are placed on the human player - Jamie pretty much says the same thing. This one is for H2H. I think that's probably the only way both sides can fly choppers - BTW the US choppers have A2A capability, dont know if it works, haven't had a Hokum or Frogfoot in the crosshairs yet, though it MIGHT have happened during a Sov airstrike (the AI does that REAL well).

Finally, the Soviet choppers have lift capability - and the lightweight Sov TD AFV is in the mix. That could be some real fun.

Someone - let me kmow if you are willing to playtest a JAM scenario with me. This could be so much fun it ain't legal.

Bing



troopie -> (8/26/2002 8:54:21 PM)

Helicopter graphics still are in WAW. Try icons 155, 156, 158 and 159.

troopie



Warhorse -> (8/26/2002 10:23:51 PM)

The icons from SPMBT CAN be brought over, I've done it already w/o a hitch for my Comm Chinese!! The problem is that it's a very long, tedious process, and I don't have the time needed to do all the icons, or I would volunteer, oh, then you would need to redo the oob's, to put in changes to icon numbers. The whole thing would need to be redone unfortunately, anyone with lots of time on their hands could do this...:D



Frank W. -> (8/27/2002 2:51:18 AM)

hey ho!!

try firing with MLRS batteries!
they donīt stop to fire.... the have
ROF of 255 listed in OOB.

and havnīt the soviet tank a little bit to
weak armor?

but keep it up with this modern mode.
itīs fun.



Frank W. -> (8/27/2002 3:04:22 AM)

another thing came to mind:

you said something with armor slopes?

is that anymore important with chobham or
composite armor? when you look at leopard 2
or challenger tank they have allmost zero slope.
but it does not have much impact on the stength
of the armor of these vehicles.

and: is the number of "armored skirts" relative to
heat protection??

perhaps you should take a look at the yahoo group
for MBT. there are much things discuused which could
help developing the modern OOBīs .......



Bing -> (8/27/2002 3:27:42 AM)

I haqve found 18 files in the current (v7.1) shp mix that have tiles depicting helos. Kinda confusing, I haven't done much of this kind of work with WAW. I do have an official helo icon now for one of the choppers in my Pokadanoza scenario - there are so many I hardly know where to start.

I'm off to look at Fred's page again- I have his ShpEd of course, otherwise I wouldn't even be able to see what's in the shp files.

Anyone know of a general guide and introduction to the care and feeding of unit icon .shp files?

Bing



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