RE: Road To Minsk (Full Version)

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alfonso -> RE: Road To Minsk (12/10/2010 6:20:46 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Krec

i think a draw is about what you can get.
the other point citys are on the far right side
i killed just about everything in site although i ended T4 early could have killed a few more units , was really fun , love the movies at the end , really cool footage.
This game is very good.[:D]




I won!!! hehehe

[image]local://upfiles/4579/BE7F24B2DDA94E02ADF84FBD607F3814.jpg[/image]



Krec -> RE: Road To Minsk (12/10/2010 8:56:02 PM)

Great Job!! ill have to replay now



hgilmer3 -> RE: Road To Minsk (12/10/2010 10:24:17 PM)

Can you do an AAR for this scenario and tell us what difficulty? Because on normal I am getting blasted as Germany. Every time I have played on normal I have lost a major defeat.



alfonso -> RE: Road To Minsk (12/10/2010 11:15:39 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: hgilmer3

Can you do an AAR for this scenario and tell us what difficulty? Because on normal I am getting blasted as Germany. Every time I have played on normal I have lost a major defeat.


I played in difficulty set at normal. I think that in the Minsk scenario the most important factor is to make advance the panzer divisions as far as possible, in order to reach the right end of the map. I use the infantry divisions for the initial breakthroughs, to save Panzer MP. The Soviet side is very weak. When infantry has blasted a hole in the front lines (say 4 hexes wide and 3-4 hexes deep) I release the Panzer Divsions. Especially in the initial turn, I make only hasty attacks with one Division each time, to save the MPs of the remaining divisions in the stack. One Motorized division leads the way sweeping aside enemy obstacles. The following Panzer Divisions will therefore only spend MP advancing, not fighting.

Turn 1. The Panzer Divisions reach the hex west of Minsk, and create a huge envelopment. Brest Litovsk is surrounded

Turn 2. Minsk is encircled and captured and one PanzerDiv reaches Mogilev, while some of them advance towards Vitebsk
The infantry armies far behind in the west entertain themselves by forcing the Red Army to surrender (note that regiments alone can't do the trick, you have to use whole Inf Divs, something related to ZOCs, I guess...).

Turn 3. The Division in Mogilev is Air Supplied (just in case) and all Panzer Forces advance towards Vitebsk, clearing the way for my last Motorized Division, which happened to have just the MP necessary to occupy the city. And Brest Litovsk falls...

I try to move HQs and Air Bases forward, I think it helps (not sure about Airbases, though...)



Swayin -> RE: Road To Minsk (12/10/2010 11:26:44 PM)

To win as the Germans, a couple of things need to happen, IMO: Brest falls on turn one, clearing the path for the southern pincer's panzergruppe to make it just outside Minsk, just across that small river to the SW of the city on that turn.

As the Germans, you will not win if you capture ONLY Minsk, the Baltic towns, and B-L! you need to grab at least one more of the objective towns on the east edge of the map, and IMO, the easiest is generally the one in the NE corner, which can be had by driving your lime green panzer corps (it starts in the NW corner of the board) hard from the get-go in that direction.

Mop up the pocket using foot infantry, not your mechanized troops or armor. Punch into Minsk from the SW.



hgilmer3 -> RE: Road To Minsk (12/11/2010 1:07:54 AM)

I never can get them resupplied well enough to make the whole trip.  I do fine on the encirclements and I move the HQs up and it never works.



htuna -> RE: Road To Minsk (12/11/2010 2:11:32 AM)

I was like 3 turn scenario.. what fun could that be.. Tutorial has 10!.. just finished the first turn.. this game Rocks!



Emx77 -> RE: Road To Minsk (12/12/2010 12:18:43 AM)

Total Soviet Disaster - Axis VP Advantage 10.7 to 1

I wonder if someone can do better then this on normal diffculty? [:D]

Victory points
[image]http://img37.imagefra.me/i5cb/emx77/qn9q_bd3_ubogs.jpg[/image]

Ground Losses
[image]http://img40.imagefra.me/i5cb/emx77/qn9q_477_ubogs.jpg[/image]

Air Losses
[image]http://img40.imagefra.me/i5cb/emx77/qn9q_d6c_ubogs.jpg[/image]

Destroyed Units
[image]http://img37.imagefra.me/i5cb/emx77/qn9q_e84_ubogs.jpg[/image]

Map situation at the end of scenario
[image]http://img40.imagefra.me/i5cb/emx77/qn9q_041_ubogs.jpg[/image]

Difficulty settings
[image]http://img37.imagefra.me/i5cb/emx77/qn9q_ef7_ubogs.jpg[/image]



kfmiller41 -> RE: Road To Minsk (12/12/2010 12:26:53 AM)

took me three tries but I finally got a victory, Major one. Takes some learning to understand whats what and I am sure that I couldnt take the kind of risks against a person i can against the AI. Great fun.



hgilmer3 -> RE: Road To Minsk (12/12/2010 2:10:49 AM)

I'm getting better!  Slow and steady wins the race! (Well, not yet, but I'm getting closer.)  This is on normal and I have been getting torn to pieces on normal.  I lost the last game, but I finally took Minsk and got within 2 hexes of Mogilev.  I'm thinking if I take Mogilev, I'll win at least a Minor.

So, even thickheaded people can play this game, hehe.



hgilmer3 -> RE: Road To Minsk (12/12/2010 6:45:55 AM)

Finally beat it on Normal.  Axis minor victory.  I think the game gypped me by having one of my HQs way back on the starting line and I'm pretty sure I didn't make that mistake!!

If that mistake had not been made, probably a major victory.



jjoshua -> RE: Road To Minsk (12/12/2010 7:21:35 AM)

Cool,

I think I am the last person on this blog to not take Minsk as of yet...when hell freezes over, you will now I have gotten a small victory in this scenerio.

I am not sure if 'dense headedness' is up to the higher standard of 'thicked headedness' as of yet. I am (0 and 4) for my stats. OUCH!!!



Krupinski -> RE: Road To Minsk (12/12/2010 12:50:16 PM)

My situation after turn one..

[image]http://img337.imageshack.us/img337/5141/minskturn1.jpg[/image]



henri51 -> RE: Road To Minsk (12/12/2010 1:03:37 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: jjarredd

Cool,

I think I am the last person on this blog to not take Minsk as of yet...when hell freezes over, you will now I have gotten a small victory in this scenerio.

I am not sure if 'dense headedness' is up to the higher standard of 'thicked headedness' as of yet. I am (0 and 4) for my stats. OUCH!!!


Holy cow! I have only finished move one, and although I have a large pocket, I have no units anywhere near Minsk! It looks like I could be late for my date further East...

Henri



Erik Rutins -> RE: Road To Minsk (12/12/2010 1:41:21 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Emir Agic
Total Soviet Disaster - Axis VP Advantage 10.7 to 1
I wonder if someone can do better then this on normal diffculty? [:D]


That is an impressive result, I definitely can't beat that.



Emx77 -> RE: Road To Minsk (12/12/2010 2:17:41 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Erik Rutins


quote:

ORIGINAL: Emir Agic
Total Soviet Disaster - Axis VP Advantage 10.7 to 1
I wonder if someone can do better then this on normal diffculty? [:D]


That is an impressive result, I definitely can't beat that.



Thank you Erik.

I think key here is not to lose time by taking Minsk with spearheading panzer units on turn 2. Instead, Germans should bypass Minsk and advance as far as possible toward Vitesbk, Mogilev and Zhlobin, keeping just minimum necessary force to keep Minsk encircled. During turn 3 there should be enough infantry units to mount final assault on Minsk. Also, now panzers will have Vitesbk and Zhlobin in range for strike at begining of turn 3, which is very important as these cities worth a lot of victory points.



hgilmer3 -> RE: Road To Minsk (12/12/2010 3:09:55 PM)

1. I bet the reason my HQ was back was due to probably not having it with a combat unit.  I had a couple of floaters from the Soviets that cut off my supply.

2. The strategy Emir Agic is describing is a lot of what I used on my last try, but because I had that one army group without its HQ, it stalled in front of Mogilev.  I would not have had any chance for Vitebsk, though, so even if successful in Mogilev, I would not have come anywhere near the dominance in that screenshot of Emir's.

3. You probably need the bare minimum to take Schlobin, because it does not seem to have any combat units guarding it.

4. Still not too sure of the strategy to get Vitebsk, but once I get the total strat down to take everything BUT Vitebsk, I'll work on figuring out how to get there.  It's just a matter of using the right mix for each objective.  I see that now.  I even had a lot of my infantry within striking distance of Minsk on turn 3, the last game.



Emx77 -> RE: Road To Minsk (12/12/2010 5:17:33 PM)

Ok. Here is how I did it:

Situation at beginning of Turn 2

[image]http://img40.imagefra.me/i5cc/emx77/rex1_892_ubogs.jpg[/image]


Situation at end of Turn 2

[image]http://img37.imagefra.me/i5cc/emx77/rex1_7d7_ubogs.jpg[/image]


Turn 3 went according to plan resulting in 345K of Soviet loses in men, 1538 AFV and 1742 airplanes at the end of scenario.



hgilmer3 -> RE: Road To Minsk (12/12/2010 5:34:58 PM)

Very similar to mine, but I used the 39th corps to help level an isolated Minsk.  It was definitely overkill and the two infantry divisions I was able to get to Minsk could have easily done the job on the two isolated units in Minsk.



schmolywar -> RE: Road To Minsk (12/12/2010 10:29:22 PM)

Do you guys move the Army Group HQs with you trough the gaps? Which HQs stay behind and which do you take with you?



hgilmer3 -> RE: Road To Minsk (12/12/2010 11:09:33 PM)

quote:

Do you guys move the Army Group HQs with you through the gaps? Which HQs stay behind and which do you take with you?



I always bring them.  You cannot let the combat divisions too far ahead.  I try and move the divisions/regiments/brigade of one HQ all at one time and make sure they are close enough together that if the HQ is placed between them, they all have command and control and can trace back to their HQ.  My strategy is to make two pockets - the one obvious one, then another between the obvious one and Minsk.  That way usually none of them can cut your supply.  The one thing I'll mention about proximity to HQ -> It seems not to be possible to always have your divisions close enough because a couple of HQs have panzer and infantry.  If I have to choose, I keep the HQs closer to the panzer because panzer mobility is key to win this scenario.  You have to have a bunch with high MPs on the 2nd or 3rd, or your attacks run out of steam.

I also move up the airfields as far as possible.


I just won it with a major victory.  A first for me in about 10 tries.  I won it with my very last possible attack on Mogilev which I had to attack about 4 times with hasty attack.  The last hasty attack routed the defenders and I pulled out the major V.



schmolywar -> RE: Road To Minsk (12/12/2010 11:17:24 PM)

So bringing your HQs with you basically bring all of your supplies and fuel with you as well? Then why is it important to keep your rear/flanks open to your starting line? Or is there like a HQ even over that that goes to Warsaw?



hgilmer3 -> RE: Road To Minsk (12/12/2010 11:22:05 PM)

Someone might be better able to explain it than I can, but your HQs are like your distribution point.  I just thought of this - think of them like a UPS truck.  If the truck is 100 miles away, it can't deliver anything to you.  But, if it is close to you, it can.  It gets its supply from back at the warehouse.

So, you have hard coded supply routes that get the supply to the HQs and if the HQs are close enough to its units, it gets the supply to them, and you can start overrunning the Bolsheviks!  The supply routes come from a base and you have to make sure the supply routes to your HQs are repaired and not cut off.



schmolywar -> RE: Road To Minsk (12/12/2010 11:31:18 PM)

Ok, so theoretically say I bring all the HQs to Minsk, from the lowest to highest. The russian close a pocket around Minsk. Will all my units within that pocket still be able to resupply/refuel?



hgilmer3 -> RE: Road To Minsk (12/12/2010 11:37:06 PM)

The Russians would never be able to close you in a pocket at Minsk, but if you were ever to be closed in a pocket, then, yes, you'd be cut off from supply. I'm not exactly sure what would happen in that situation, but it wouldn't be good, hehe.



PyleDriver -> RE: Road To Minsk (12/13/2010 1:11:01 AM)

Well supply goes to corps HQ's, C&C goes up the line for die rolls. So keep army Hq's with in 15 hexs of corps, and really make sure that corps Hq's are within 5...



PyleDriver -> RE: Road To Minsk (12/13/2010 1:14:22 AM)

Also another hint. If you airdrop supplies drop them to corps Hq's. The Hq does a great job to get them to your units on the run...



hgilmer3 -> RE: Road To Minsk (12/13/2010 3:26:49 AM)

I don't know much.  I'm learning every time I click end turn.



mikeCK -> RE: Road To Minsk (12/14/2010 4:19:05 AM)

Well, I won!. I took Minsk but didnt realize you get point for all of the other cities. Because I didnt mop up and move extra units into them, Soviets received a minor victory off of city points. AS you can see though, they had no armies left and I controlled Minsk. now I know for next time. I stil consider it a victory as my objective was destruction of the armies and control of Minsk.



[image]local://upfiles/29251/B31FF67E05C04F34995C1791BA2BA8CF.jpg[/image]



ioticus -> RE: Road To Minsk (12/26/2010 5:12:27 AM)

I don't understand the VP calculations in this scenario.  I played as the Soviets and got a decisive victory but the VP screen showed that I had 5 turns worth of VP for controlling 3 cities even though the scenario is only 3 turns long.  What's going on?



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