RE: Probably gonna stir up a hornets nest... (Full Version)

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karonagames -> RE: Probably gonna stir up a hornets nest... (12/22/2010 9:50:32 AM)

quote:

The manual gives good factual info on how the system works but what it DOESN'T do too well is put it in context for the average user.


We are curently proofing dlazlov66's "operational boot camp" which is specifically written to explain the "why" in addition to the "how" things are done in the game. It is about 250pp at the moment, and the testers are sending Don crazy (well me mostly!) to get things added.

The plan is to get a pdf file in an easily accessible download location.



fsp -> RE: Probably gonna stir up a hornets nest... (12/22/2010 12:01:47 PM)

I have to say that the UI is pretty good compared to other monster games. It is easy to pick up and play. That does not mean it cannot be better.

I too have to agree with many of the things the OP said.

I know no other game that selects units the way WITE does. I would really love to have the industry standard here (left click: unit on top, double left click: full stack, several left clicks: cycle single units. Why change something that's not broken?)

Also, we definitely need more pop-ups. Where something like SUB / ADD / etc. is displayed, you should always get a pop-up explaining what happens there, especially in such a game.

I only have one thing that really annoys me though, and that is the distribution of support units. I don't understand that system at all so far and find it very counterintuitive. Please change it?



Steeltrap -> RE: Probably gonna stir up a hornets nest... (12/22/2010 2:00:14 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: BigAnorak

quote:

The manual gives good factual info on how the system works but what it DOESN'T do too well is put it in context for the average user.


We are curently proofing dlazlov66's "operational boot camp" which is specifically written to explain the "why" in addition to the "how" things are done in the game. It is about 250pp at the moment, and the testers are sending Don crazy (well me mostly!) to get things added.

The plan is to get a pdf file in an easily accessible download location.


Well that's terrific news, thanks very much. [&o]

I'm a bit surprised it needs to be as long as the manual, however. I'd have thought a 'flow chart' of sorts showing the flow of actions to take each turn, then an explanation of the why/what with links to the relevant sections of the manual (which already has the 'how') would suffice (yeah, I do this sort of stuff professionally, so I'm biased [8D]).

Not that I'm trying to discourage the more comprehensive one. Will look forward to it greatly.

Cheers



karonagames -> RE: Probably gonna stir up a hornets nest... (12/22/2010 2:04:51 PM)

quote:

I'm a bit surprised it needs to be as long as the manual,


Don is very thorough, and has done some parts in small "baby" steps which take alot of space, and I have asked him to look at some of the broader thought processes that players may need apply with some aspects of the game.



Steeltrap -> RE: Probably gonna stir up a hornets nest... (12/22/2010 2:08:47 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: BigAnorak

quote:

I'm a bit surprised it needs to be as long as the manual,


Don is very thorough, and has done some parts in small "baby" steps which take alot of space, and I have asked him to look at some of the broader thought processes that players may need apply with some aspects of the game.


Know how that goes. Once you go down to the absolute 'step by step' with screen shots it can get big, quickly.

A higher level overview would probably be great for the 'quick reference of what to do each turn', with people using the really detailed one less and less as they gain familiarity.

Being new to the game and quite a bit of experience at writing process mapping/technical guides etc, be happy to be a test dummy for you. Sometimes those really familiar with the material can overlook things simply because of that familiarity. Have time off over Christmas/New Year, too, so am looking to play anyway. I have MS Visio so could do an over-arching decision/process map for you based on it, too. Let me know if that might help.

Certainly won't be offended if not!

Very impressed with the support. Thanks to all involved.

Cheers



Mynok -> RE: Probably gonna stir up a hornets nest... (12/22/2010 5:50:37 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: fsp
I know no other game that selects units the way WITE does. I would really love to have the industry standard here (left click: unit on top, double left click: full stack, several left clicks: cycle single units. Why change something that's not broken?)


Industry standard? No such animal.



Gandalf -> RE: Probably gonna stir up a hornets nest... (12/22/2010 6:17:33 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Mynok


quote:

ORIGINAL: fsp
I know no other game that selects units the way WITE does. I would really love to have the industry standard here (left click: unit on top, double left click: full stack, several left clicks: cycle single units. Why change something that's not broken?)


Industry standard? No such animal.


It might not be a defacto industry standard, but it's fast becoming a sensible industry normal, which ought to be accepted as a default industry standard.



Mynok -> RE: Probably gonna stir up a hornets nest... (12/22/2010 7:46:08 PM)


Normal for what? Standard for what? It makes no sense to talk about standards without specifying the domain. "Industry" is so broad a term as to be utterly meaningless.



squatter -> RE: Probably gonna stir up a hornets nest... (12/22/2010 9:20:24 PM)

most of us know exactly what you mean gandalf. Well said.



raizer -> RE: Probably gonna stir up a hornets nest... (12/22/2010 9:42:52 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: jomni


quote:

ORIGINAL: raizer

any way to cycle thru units in the stacks? I would love to be able to rotate units and put whatever one on the top-Just hoping is all


Why would you want to do this when you can clearly see them in the side panel?


simple-say Im playing the campaign game with a ton of units-I see stacks with ample movement points and I end up clicking on them over and over, only to see that they are HQ units with the mps and not the combat units. I want to rotate units in the stacks so I can put the HQs on the top and stop this endless clicking of units on the map. I can also rotate my tank units that have addtl mps left, I can assign units to the top of stacks, so I can cut down on the needed clicking on units and looking in the left panel-maybe its just me, but the less looking in the side panels the better. Here is another use-say I move an armor unit a bunch and move it onto a stack of 2 other fresh units. Maybe I would like to put the exhausted, used up unit on the bottom, and have the fresh units on the tops-or the hqs. Then if I save the game, I can come back later next day or 2 and have them the way I want, instead on clicking on stacks to look at side panels. The game is fluid, I like to put fresh combat units on top, thats all, maybe Im a noob and a rookie at this but Ive been playing wargames for 30 years and got my feet wet with computer games in Atomics V4V series and this function, of having units you want on the top of stacks, has always been available...telling me I dont need it dont make me fell any better



Mynok -> RE: Probably gonna stir up a hornets nest... (12/22/2010 9:43:18 PM)


So do I. He said "I prefer it a different way".



balto -> RE: Probably gonna stir up a hornets nest... (12/22/2010 9:46:19 PM)

SteelTrap, I love how you think. A flowchart and the like. I hope the game gods use your skills, I would love to see that type of info.

But the 225 page guide, that too would be super awesome.

I have tons of Matrix games and read tons of forums.., no question the testers and support personnel in GGWITE, hands down the best.

Thank you so much for your efforts.



Templer_12 -> WitE is a bad game because of it's selection mode! (12/22/2010 10:35:15 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: fsp

I know no other game that selects units the way WITE does. I would really love to have the industry standard here (left click: unit on top, double left click: full stack, several left clicks: cycle single units. Why change something that's not broken?)



I can't read it, I won't hear it anymore. [sm=Christo_pull_hair.gif]
Surely Gary Grigsby's War in the East, can't be measured by whether some players are happy with the selection mode or not.
Here I also point out that some players have problems with the mouse performance. Run with this reduced performance a double clicking wouldn't be possible!

So you know no other game that selects units the way WITE does Honestly, me neither. But I know some games, and you certainly also now some, with a selection mode perhaps even more uncomfortable.

Stop it! [sm=00000018.gif]
After 30-40 minutes playing time I got used to the the selection mode, it works just fine with me.
And I know that there are many other members that have no difficulties with the selection mode.




Steeltrap -> RE: Probably gonna stir up a hornets nest... (12/22/2010 10:46:58 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: balto

SteelTrap, I love how you think. A flowchart and the like. I hope the game gods use your skills, I would love to see that type of info.

But the 225 page guide, that too would be super awesome.

I have tons of Matrix games and read tons of forums.., no question the testers and support personnel in GGWITE, hands down the best.

Thank you so much for your efforts.


Thanks. Even if they don't ask (and I can entirely understand they probably won't) I might do one based on it and see if they want to make it available.

Agree with the comments about the support. Manuals in most games are pathetic, yet these guys are building essentially a SECOND one. Can't speak highly enough of that.

Cheers



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