RE: Tophat1812(REDS) vs Moses(Krauts and friends) (Full Version)

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Tophat1815 -> RE: Tophat1812(REDS) vs Moses(Krauts and friends) (12/31/2010 2:25:20 PM)

not real pleased with my dispositions here,but I need another turn to straighten things out. He will of course be right on top of me in the center so more OPERATION: CAT-BOX can be expected next turn. Nothing goes as planned,but at least my armies are going to have my divisions in proper command.

[image]local://upfiles/19413/D4F389AC7E864542AC718F99EB2FA948.jpg[/image]



Tophat1815 -> RE: Tophat1812(REDS) vs Moses(Krauts and friends) (12/31/2010 2:29:01 PM)

More operation Cat-Box......here at least I have a river barrier and some depth to my front. Around Rzhev,Orel,Moscow,Tula areas I have armies with routed and new filling-out divisions. These are the reserves for next turn forming.

[image]local://upfiles/19413/F014EBCBFAA6456CA06DA06F74F81CB1.jpg[/image]



Tophat1815 -> RE: Tophat1812(REDS) vs Moses(Krauts and friends) (12/31/2010 2:30:49 PM)

Kiev area being fortified,but if he gets in position for a north to south envelopment I will abandon the city and move east first.

[image]local://upfiles/19413/B92AF656B8F944B48005E4AAE6E14963.jpg[/image]



Tophat1815 -> RE: Tophat1812(REDS) vs Moses(Krauts and friends) (12/31/2010 2:32:42 PM)

Still pulling back toward the river line. I'm curious if he'll try and slice into me or let me retreat in front of him some more.

[image]local://upfiles/19413/C2D9D2F8213B4CDFB8595FD59BD40289.jpg[/image]



Tophat1815 -> RE: Tophat1812(REDS) vs Moses(Krauts and friends) (12/31/2010 2:35:03 PM)

Not too bad on the coast. Odessa is building-up well,we shall see if he sends German infantry in to do the job or not.

Crimea area fortifying as well.

[image]local://upfiles/19413/0A2FA342486045BA8AD93515EF6EA7ED.jpg[/image]



Tophat1815 -> RE: Tophat1812(REDS) vs Moses(Krauts and friends) (12/31/2010 2:38:44 PM)

I'm thinking of leaving divisions in all port cities to make him commit troops to costly city fighting. Correction,I am not thinking about it,that is the plan. Now for my WiTp turn with BL. moses updated to the latest build of WiTE so I will as well and then start working on that first German move BL.



BLurking -> RE: Tophat1812(REDS) vs Moses(Krauts and friends) (12/31/2010 2:45:13 PM)

Get crackin' then!

Hey, are you doing any night supply drops to the partisan bands?
Seems like getting some of them active in the rear could play havoc with his forward deployment.
Gotta have reserves to chase down those annoying buggers, and I doubt he has any.



Tophat1815 -> RE: Tophat1812(REDS) vs Moses(Krauts and friends) (12/31/2010 4:15:23 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: BLurking

Get crackin' then!

Hey, are you doing any night supply drops to the partisan bands?
Seems like getting some of them active in the rear could play havoc with his forward deployment.
Gotta have reserves to chase down those annoying buggers, and I doubt he has any.


Been displacing backwards and trying to keep my pocketed troops in supply to force moses to actually fight them. I really need to read rules on partisans,I thought it was an under the hood mechanic and at a certain point they become active. Good catch! And worry-not,in our GC I'll have security divisions do just that,run security. There are also a bevy of axis minors that can help out.



Tophat1815 -> RE: Tophat1812(REDS) vs Moses(Krauts and friends) (12/31/2010 4:42:01 PM)

Time for a strategy Update:

1) Against the Finn's my Northern Front units are going to try and buy another couple turns. Why you ask? That is a very good question indeed. The more i am pondering it the more I believe I made an error. I need to use the NKVD units to fill the line at the Finn no attack point and free-up those 4 rifle divisions for Leningrad's defense! So on turn 8 operation: RUN FOR THE NO ATTACK LINE BEGINS!

2) Leningrad area.we are digging in,depending on the slogging progress the Germans make in the swamps more rifle divisions might join the delay force. Also serious look at conscripting civilian population to dig defenses.

3) East of Pskov.....good defensive terrain here I might actually build a few fortified zones to free-up static rifle divisions here.

4) Smolensk and central area.....Keep him pinned in the cat-box and weakening his panzer/mobile divisions. Keep throwing divisions into the path to Moscow. All routed/depleted divisions will pull back to Moscow area under a vacant army command to rebuild. Rebuilt units get fed back to the front.

5) Gomel area.......outpost the river line and look for that end sweep.

6) Kiev.....delay as long as possible,hope he tries to force a panzer division major river crossing.

7) Southern Front.....watch and see if there are any Germans really facing me....look for opportunity and keep on playing for time.

Air War........take a good look at what the "ai" is doing for me. See about supplying partisans and transferring more fighters from National reserve to keep attrition going on with the Luftwaffe.

Keep counting the AFV losses of the Axis....those panzers have to be feeling the strain soon.

Comments? Suggestions? Critique?



kfmiller41 -> RE: Tophat1812(REDS) vs Moses(Krauts and friends) (12/31/2010 7:35:57 PM)

Well top if I was the german player I would be going for a river crossing south of Kiev, he know this will probably force you to retreat from that bloodbath city fight for Kiev. Depends on how much force he has with that armor in the south and what shape they are in.

Also I hope you are sparing some divisions for a slid defensive line near Moscow, that checkerboard is nice but it will not stop him, only slow him down. I looked and realized he was not far from Moscow in my game and there were no troops around the city! Decided I better do that, just in case so don't forget about it.

Your defense looks really good though overall, at least to my untrained eye[;)]



Tophat1815 -> RE: Tophat1812(REDS) vs Moses(Krauts and friends) (12/31/2010 8:36:28 PM)

Thanks Miller i appreciate it,though around Smolensk I am anything but set. Need the Russians to live up to "Dogged Defenders" or I am looking at a sub-lease on Moscow property to Uncle Adolf.

The Great White North,or just Northern Front....... Nothing really to see here accept a reinforcing division makes a magical appearance close to the Finn no attack line. I can really use this division!

Oops,ahead of myself with screen-shots........here is the "Total Losses first page."

Well,well lookie here we have German AFV losses at: (Drum Roll PLEASE!) 1015! So we broke 1,000 and that is close to a third of his starting armor.

[image]local://upfiles/19413/067B67F16AA54520BAB7254857517EAD.jpg[/image]



Tophat1815 -> RE: Tophat1812(REDS) vs Moses(Krauts and friends) (12/31/2010 8:45:11 PM)

Here are the aircraft losses for both sides as of turn#8:

Interesting indeed with some 1,300 Luftwaffe planes gone that has got to start diminishing effectiveness. The RED Air-Force has lost what now close to 10,000 airframes? I certainly hope the ministry of production is rolling these things out!

[image]local://upfiles/19413/064B996C71B04EEE93657C6617D10C48.jpg[/image]



Tophat1815 -> RE: Tophat1812(REDS) vs Moses(Krauts and friends) (12/31/2010 8:48:10 PM)

Here is the screen so far that I have come to hate,that is the destroyed units screen! I always as the RED ARMY have destroyed units..........the Germans(so far)don't. Enough said.

[image]local://upfiles/19413/37A2A0B333F643A8A7237BDE072E826A.jpg[/image]



Tophat1815 -> RE: Tophat1812(REDS) vs Moses(Krauts and friends) (12/31/2010 8:53:13 PM)

Northern Front situation:

Basically things are unchanged here. The addition of the 3rd rifle division showing up is a welcome surprise. I will now hazard a look at what happened south of Leningrad and the Pskov area.

[image]local://upfiles/19413/D778EF437C4C4104B48D672D05889258.jpg[/image]



Tophat1815 -> RE: Tophat1812(REDS) vs Moses(Krauts and friends) (12/31/2010 9:00:02 PM)

I'm certainly happy that the 3rd rifle division formed near Leningrad this turn,because the Krauts have broken through and cut off part of 8th army. They have also taken Pskov and panzers are closing in on the high ground south of Leningrad.

[image]local://upfiles/19413/330AFDA5DF794090B4FA2BB357F5C6CA.jpg[/image]



Tophat1815 -> RE: Tophat1812(REDS) vs Moses(Krauts and friends) (12/31/2010 9:04:37 PM)

Well the 2 rifle divisions and the NKVD rgt that formed on no-name island in the northern gulf of Riga are pinning at least 2 German divisions in containing them. Every small bit of aid helps the cause,2 less infantry divisions to storm into Leningrad's streets!

[image]local://upfiles/19413/0A4F7AEF58D14B129C6548AA0E0E769E.jpg[/image]



Tophat1815 -> RE: Tophat1812(REDS) vs Moses(Krauts and friends) (12/31/2010 9:08:34 PM)

I thought it was going to be ugly,it is ugly but not as bad as I'd feared. Take a gander and feel free to comment.

[image]local://upfiles/19413/012EF2C7D38D46C0B9E693776472B857.jpg[/image]



Tophat1815 -> RE: Tophat1812(REDS) vs Moses(Krauts and friends) (12/31/2010 9:21:57 PM)

The Smolensk FRONT is now the Vyazma Front! To say things deteriorated would be an understatement but I can still cobble together something for next turn that resembles a line. More on this later,my first thoughts are the 5 divisions i have on trains already are coming to Moscow!

[image]local://upfiles/19413/4428DC75897F4ABDB8FDE97B2E110F68.jpg[/image]



Tophat1815 -> RE: Tophat1812(REDS) vs Moses(Krauts and friends) (12/31/2010 9:26:18 PM)


Still a line holding shape is my Bryansk Front situation. Hope things went well in the south as I'll need to shift divisions to reconstruct the center at Moscow.

[image]local://upfiles/19413/8B6EDC426CB64214A32BF26C97C1EFD5.jpg[/image]



Tophat1815 -> RE: Tophat1812(REDS) vs Moses(Krauts and friends) (12/31/2010 9:35:21 PM)


Kiev Front the bad guys,(between Hitler and Stalin bad is relative),that is the Germans for the purposes of this AAR! {no personal,racial or ethnic slight intended to anyone who thinks the Soviets were worse. Nor should this thread be construed in any way shape or form as advocating Stalinist communism) Sorry,in the face of minor in game disaster i couldn't resist a farcical disclaimer to raise my morale.

Anyway things are much less dire on this front and i have a nice Big Riverfor him to cross again. So some reserves coming here,are going elsewhere-----------MOSCOW HO!

[image]local://upfiles/19413/0A9374DBBE7041A8ACB8920DC56D1B8C.jpg[/image]



kfmiller41 -> RE: Tophat1812(REDS) vs Moses(Krauts and friends) (12/31/2010 9:36:17 PM)

Going to add some more units to the KIA list looks like[:D] Good thing is you have losses to give him. It is hard to think like Stalin and sacrifice tons of men[:-]



Tophat1815 -> RE: Tophat1812(REDS) vs Moses(Krauts and friends) (12/31/2010 9:40:59 PM)

Southern Front: Again the situation relative to my center at Moscow is not at all too bad. i should even be able to scrape some infantry together to relieve an armored division defending the river line. I always try to free up mobile units for second defense line use.

[image]local://upfiles/19413/D8E59CF6BC4E4C55825E10F82E817D12.jpg[/image]



randallw -> RE: Tophat1812(REDS) vs Moses(Krauts and friends) (12/31/2010 10:30:31 PM)

Congrats on getting another Front activated.  [:D]



ComradeP -> RE: Tophat1812(REDS) vs Moses(Krauts and friends) (1/1/2011 3:16:27 PM)

Tophat, try more of a checkerboard in the Leningrad area. If he gets to Leningrad after turn 10, he probably can't take it.



Tophat1815 -> RE: Tophat1812(REDS) vs Moses(Krauts and friends) (1/1/2011 3:25:22 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: ComradeP

Tophat, try more of a checkerboard in the Leningrad area. If he gets to Leningrad after turn 10, he probably can't take it.


Will do! Thanks for the encouraging target date to try and live through....[:D]

Aside from Leningrad,any words of wisdom or idea on what to do in the center? Or just keep throwing divisions in his way,so as not to be encircled,then attrition him to a standstill?



ComradeP -> RE: Tophat1812(REDS) vs Moses(Krauts and friends) (1/1/2011 4:57:33 PM)

Keep throwing divisions at him, but in a mostly checkerboard way, don't try to form a line too far west of Moscow. Losing Rzhev isn't a big problem. Losing Kalinin or Tula is a problem.

The problem he'll soon be facing if you keep delaying him is that his northern and southern flanks won't keep up with his central advance, so he's essentially advancing into a winter nightmare just like the Axis historically did. He must've missed the part in the manual that describes that going for Moscow is very dangerous in 1941;)



Tophat1815 -> RE: Tophat1812(REDS) vs Moses(Krauts and friends) (1/1/2011 5:19:56 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: ComradeP

Keep throwing divisions at him, but in a mostly checkerboard way, don't try to form a line too far west of Moscow. Losing Rzhev isn't a big problem. Losing Kalinin or Tula is a problem.

The problem he'll soon be facing if you keep delaying him is that his northern and southern flanks won't keep up with his central advance, so he's essentially advancing into a winter nightmare just like the Axis historically did. He must've missed the part in the manual that describes that going for Moscow is very dangerous in 1941;)



He's probably like me and doesn't read the manual right off...or also like me can get caught up in the moment. No,no,no.....played too many Witp games with him,Mr.meticulous has a plan.

I have been pulling industry out of this area kalinin and Tula,not that I want to loose either.



ComradeP -> RE: Tophat1812(REDS) vs Moses(Krauts and friends) (1/1/2011 5:57:52 PM)

Tula, and the Moscow area in general, has a lot of industry, which is difficult to evacuate in only a handful of turns unless you commit a large part of your rail capacity to do so. That's why delaying actions are important. Men can easily be replaced, factories can not in many cases.

Have you lost any industry thus far?



randallw -> RE: Tophat1812(REDS) vs Moses(Krauts and friends) (1/1/2011 9:07:29 PM)

You may want to consider ordering up some fort units; it's desperate to do but helps digging.

You may want to try a modified checkerboard, with rifle units in trees instead of being plopped every two hexes.

Try not to put the partial strength units too close to the front; they need time to fill out and be ready.



Tophat1815 -> RE: Tophat1812(REDS) vs Moses(Krauts and friends) (1/1/2011 9:15:52 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: ComradeP

Tula, and the Moscow area in general, has a lot of industry, which is difficult to evacuate in only a handful of turns unless you commit a large part of your rail capacity to do so. That's why delaying actions are important. Men can easily be replaced, factories can not in many cases.

Have you lost any industry thus far?


Haven't lost "ANY" industry yet. But that which was moved is "damaged"....so I have lost temporarily at least production. Taking a breather before sending moses this last turn. took me all afternoon to re-organize and change units army commands to keep in command radius.



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