RE: 1942 war start what if ideas

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Sardaukar -> RE: 1942 war start what if ideas (12/26/2010 9:18:06 AM)
Dec 1940 attack would have been interesting. It would give IJA/IJN 5 months to prepare... But what was the readiness of Japanese military in Dec 1940? One alternative history option is to have Japan to decide to attack after German success in West 1940 followed by US Two Ocean Navy Act. They would been close to each other and Japan viewed latter as very serious indeed. Quick wiki: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Two-Ocean_Navy_Act These two things might have been enough to convince Japan to try surprise attack IF they would have same leadership as in later 1941... Question is, were they capable for PH in Dec 1940?

Alfred -> RE: 1942 war start what if ideas (12/26/2010 4:09:38 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Sardaukar Dec 1940 attack would have been interesting. It would give IJA/IJN 5 months to prepare... But what was the readiness of Japanese military in Dec 1940? One alternative history option is to have Japan to decide to attack after German success in West 1940 followed by US Two Ocean Navy Act. They would been close to each other and Japan viewed latter as very serious indeed. Quick wiki: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Two-Ocean_Navy_Act These two things might have been enough to convince Japan to try surprise attack IF they would have same leadership as in later 1941... Question is, were they capable for PH in Dec 1940? Technical effectiveness of 7 Dec 1941 Pearl Harbor attack was only made possible following Japanese study of British November 1940 Taranto operation. So that is another real world reason (amongst many others) why all these early war Japanese proponents are merely talking pie in the sky. Given the "doctored" circumstances, of course any country can go to war earlier, but to then postulate that the later historical capabilities (both in doctrine/training and materiel) would still apply to an earlier timeframe is fantasy. Alfred Alfred

Sardaukar -> RE: 1942 war start what if ideas (12/26/2010 4:14:58 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Alfred quote: ORIGINAL: Sardaukar Dec 1940 attack would have been interesting. It would give IJA/IJN 5 months to prepare... But what was the readiness of Japanese military in Dec 1940? One alternative history option is to have Japan to decide to attack after German success in West 1940 followed by US Two Ocean Navy Act. They would been close to each other and Japan viewed latter as very serious indeed. Quick wiki: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Two-Ocean_Navy_Act These two things might have been enough to convince Japan to try surprise attack IF they would have same leadership as in later 1941... Question is, were they capable for PH in Dec 1940? Technical effectiveness of 7 Dec 1941 Pearl Harbor attack was only made possible following Japanese study of British November 1940 Taranto operation. So that is another real world reason (amongst many others) why all these early war Japanese proponents are merely talking pie in the sky. Given the "doctored" circumstances, of course any country can go to war earlier, but to then postulate that the later historical capabilities (both in doctrine/training and materiel) would still apply to an earlier timeframe is fantasy. Alfred Alfred Yea, I agree that doctrine and equipment for PH just was not there earlier. And later in 1942 USA was getting way too powerful. But it's interesting to speculate what sort of chances Japan would have had in Dec 1940. They could have forfeited PH and gone straight to Indochina/Malaya/DEI/Philippines. This would have actually been according to their pre-war (and during it) doctrine of "decisive battle", waiting for US response to invasions and try to smash USN in one decisive clash.

wworld7 -> RE: 1942 war start what if ideas (12/26/2010 4:18:36 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Sardaukar Question is, were they capable for PH in Dec 1940? Well, of you're using Wiki to support a particular case anything is possible. Reailty is not a chance, they needed Taranto (for torps) and the USSR to be *involved* with Germany. Without the later I can't see it happening.

Sardaukar -> RE: 1942 war start what if ideas (12/26/2010 4:28:47 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: flipperwasirish quote: ORIGINAL: Sardaukar Question is, were they capable for PH in Dec 1940? Well, of you're using Wiki to support a particular case anything is possible. Reailty is not a chance, they needed Taranto (for torps) and the USSR to be *involved* with Germany. Without the later I can't see it happening. True, without USSR preoccupied, they would not have dared, Stalin being so trustworthy treaty partner and all...[:D] OTOH, they would probably be able to pull out similar conquest (without PH) without even touching garrison they had in Manchuria vs USSR. In 1940 UK and US were considerably weaker in Pacific so using same amount of troops as in 1941 would probably have made it as easy as it was in 1941. But USSR might have been tempted to steamroll to Manchoria & Sakhalin when Japan becomes preoccupied...

JWE -> RE: 1942 war start what if ideas (12/26/2010 5:25:29 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Sardaukar Dec 1940 attack would have been interesting. It would give IJA/IJN 5 months to prepare... But what was the readiness of Japanese military in Dec 1940? One alternative history option is to have Japan to decide to attack after German success in West 1940 followed by US Two Ocean Navy Act. They would been close to each other and Japan viewed latter as very serious indeed. Quick wiki: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Two-Ocean_Navy_Act These two things might have been enough to convince Japan to try surprise attack IF they would have same leadership as in later 1941... Question is, were they capable for PH in Dec 1940? Well, there was no Shokaku, no Zuikaku, the additional airgroups authorized in the 1937 plan were not even completely formed, much less trained. There was no Yamato, and it took Japan 7 months to implement Fleet mobilization and auxiliary conversion. Given the daily time-line of reality, the IJN was not ready for operations until 08/41, and then, barely. And that was just the IJN. In 1940, the IJA was still trying to come to grips with Nomonhan, in its peculiar, arrogant fashion; nan-deska! Believe that Japanese preparations for war went as fast as possible, on an irl basis, given the irl facts of the time - intensified from the day of the Nazi/Soviet pact, and maximized once the shooting started in Poland. Given the lead times required, there really isn't any way that serious operations could be pursued prior to summer 1941. One would have to move the invasion and defeat of France back to 1939 in order to anticipate japanese operational readiness in late 1940, given the physical constraints on mobilization/readiness timing. As to PH, the IJN did not have the CVs, nor the planes, nor the oilers, in 1940. Neither did it have its 'qualitative' battle-line ships to oppose the US battle fleet in the event the strike failed. It would have been an opportunistic risk of an insane degree and gone against every grain of doctrine that the IJN spent decades developing. So, don't think it was possible for Japan to do a nasty in 1940. But one can never get a worm into the brain of someone like Tojo, or Ogaki, so there's always the possibility of highly irrational behavior.

guctony -> RE: 1942 war start what if ideas (12/26/2010 10:10:55 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: JWE quote: ORIGINAL: Sardaukar Dec 1940 attack would have been interesting. It would give IJA/IJN 5 months to prepare... But what was the readiness of Japanese military in Dec 1940? One alternative history option is to have Japan to decide to attack after German success in West 1940 followed by US Two Ocean Navy Act. They would been close to each other and Japan viewed latter as very serious indeed. Quick wiki: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Two-Ocean_Navy_Act These two things might have been enough to convince Japan to try surprise attack IF they would have same leadership as in later 1941... Question is, were they capable for PH in Dec 1940? Well, there was no Shokaku, no Zuikaku, the additional airgroups authorized in the 1937 plan were not even completely formed, much less trained. There was no Yamato, and it took Japan 7 months to implement Fleet mobilization and auxiliary conversion. Given the daily time-line of reality, the IJN was not ready for operations until 08/41, and then, barely. And that was just the IJN. In 1940, the IJA was still trying to come to grips with Nomonhan, in its peculiar, arrogant fashion; nan-deska! Believe that Japanese preparations for war went as fast as possible, on an irl basis, given the irl facts of the time - intensified from the day of the Nazi/Soviet pact, and maximized once the shooting started in Poland. Given the lead times required, there really isn't any way that serious operations could be pursued prior to summer 1941. One would have to move the invasion and defeat of France back to 1939 in order to anticipate japanese operational readiness in late 1940, given the physical constraints on mobilization/readiness timing. As to PH, the IJN did not have the CVs, nor the planes, nor the oilers, in 1940. Neither did it have its 'qualitative' battle-line ships to oppose the US battle fleet in the event the strike failed. It would have been an opportunistic risk of an insane degree and gone against every grain of doctrine that the IJN spent decades developing. So, don't think it was possible for Japan to do a nasty in 1940. But one can never get a worm into the brain of someone like Tojo, or Ogaki, so there's always the possibility of highly irrational behavior. still there is a huge benefit in taking action june 1940. It doesnt even call for PH attack. If everything dealth before election. It is a limited action in DEI. Securing oil in 1940 would mean alot of things. A one year action agains British in DEI would certainly mean a seperate peace with British. Even not. How could US perform any kind of embargo if DEI is in the hand of Japan. Hitler A self educated capacity did only succeed in Europe for a while because he did not hesitate.

jwilkerson -> RE: 1942 war start what if ideas (12/26/2010 10:20:28 PM)
Making an alternate history scenario in the editor does not require "justification". One persons perfectly "plausible" scenario might be another person's "fantasy" - but we should not require everyone to agree. When I made my "Cautionaries" scenario, I did what I thought made sense. I did write down my assumptions - but I did not require or expect agreement, I created the scenario for the enjoyment of those who chose to play it!

mike scholl 1 -> RE: 1942 war start what if ideas (12/27/2010 12:07:17 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: jwilkerson Making an alternate history scenario in the editor does not require "justification". One persons perfectly "plausible" scenario might be another person's "fantasy" - but we should not require everyone to agree. When I made my "Cautionaries" scenario, I did what I thought made sense. I did write down my assumptions - but I did not require or expect agreement, I created the scenario for the enjoyment of those who chose to play it! But "impossible" is still "impossible". Unless you want to assume that Japan was sitting around since 1939 with with 4,000,000 of it's 6,000,000 tons of merchant shipping swinging at anchor on the off chance that the military MIGHT decide to go to war. At which point the question is moot, because Japan's economy has already collapsed. Even "fantasy" needs to have a degree of "plausibility".

Sardaukar -> RE: 1942 war start what if ideas (12/27/2010 12:10:59 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: mike scholl 1 quote: ORIGINAL: jwilkerson Making an alternate history scenario in the editor does not require "justification". One persons perfectly "plausible" scenario might be another person's "fantasy" - but we should not require everyone to agree. When I made my "Cautionaries" scenario, I did what I thought made sense. I did write down my assumptions - but I did not require or expect agreement, I created the scenario for the enjoyment of those who chose to play it! But "impossible" is still "impossible". Unless you want to assume that Japan was sitting around since 1939 with with 4,000,000 of it's 6,000,000 tons of merchant shipping swinging at anchor on the off chance that the military MIGHT decide to go to war. At which point the question is moot, because Japan's economy has already collapsed. Even "fantasy" needs to have a degree of "plausibility". Thus, I'd propose Dec 1940 start for such alternative scenario. This would give Japan 5 months time to mobilize after German success in West and US Two Ocean Act. Of course Japan would not get Dec 1941 force levels, but 5 months is about same they used in 1941 preparations after war vs USA started to look inevitable. I think actually balance then might even favour Japan bit more than in Dec 1941, since both UK & USA were very weak in Pacific in 1940.

jwilkerson -> RE: 1942 war start what if ideas (12/27/2010 12:19:21 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: mike scholl 1 Even "fantasy" needs to have a degree of "plausibility". Like "Star Trek" is plausible??? [:D] ... warp 7 anyone ??? [:D][:D][:D] As to plausible alternative history I think Japan WAS moving as a result of what happened in June 1940 ... but their time table was what is was ... could they have moved faster? Well they did not, but they can in an alternate history scenario!!! The editor awaits your pleasure! [:)]

mike scholl 1 -> RE: 1942 war start what if ideas (12/27/2010 5:14:15 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: jwilkerson Like "Star Trek" is plausible??? [:D] ... warp 7 anyone ??? [:D][:D][:D] As to plausible alternative history I think Japan WAS moving as a result of what happened in June 1940 ... but their time table was what is was ... could they have moved faster? Well they did not, but they can in an alternate history scenario!!! The editor awaits your pleasure! [:)] As a matter of fact Joe, yes. "Star Trek" begins and ends as a fantasy of the far future..., and as no one can know what the situation will be at the start of the 23rd Century, within it's boundries, it's plausible. Japan's situation at the beginning of Summer in 1940 when the Fall of Western Europe suddenly opened up new possibilities IS known and available in history. NOBODY (not even Hitler) expected France to collapse that quickly; so it wasn't an event that could be planned for, only reacted to. To have the Japanese sitting around prepared to take advantage of it immediately isn't "alternate history", it's "alternate reality". It makes a much more plausible scenario with the Fall of France as the beginning of preparations for a war, and November/December as the kick off date. Even then the Japs are still going to be facing the great unknown of how the Soviets might react.

LoBaron -> RE: 1942 war start what if ideas (12/27/2010 6:25:01 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: mike scholl 1 As a matter of fact Joe, yes. "Star Trek" begins and ends as a fantasy of the far future..., and as no one can know what the situation will be at the start of the 23rd Century, within it's boundries, it's plausible. Japan's situation at the beginning of Summer in 1940 when the Fall of Western Europe suddenly opened up new possibilities IS known and available in history. NOBODY (not even Hitler) expected France to collapse that quickly; so it wasn't an event that could be planned for, only reacted to. To have the Japanese sitting around prepared to take advantage of it immediately isn't "alternate history", it's "alternate reality". It makes a much more plausible scenario with the Fall of France as the beginning of preparations for a war, and November/December as the kick off date. Even then the Japs are still going to be facing the great unknown of how the Soviets might react. Ok Mike your post is really tearing me apart. [;)] As a matter of fact, Star Trek is as far down on the plausability scale as at all possible. While the predictability of 23rd century technology is certainly lacking, the predictability of the physical properties of our universe is not. The Star Track technology requires very specific properties of space which we already now can dismiss as non-existent. There is a lot of plausable SF literature available, Captain Kirk is no character in one of them. I agree with the relevant part of your post though. Japans position radically changed at least 2 times before the attack on PH, first the embargo, and then the collapse of the western front in Europe. While predicting these events were not completely impossible, planning a war based on these two assumptions in advance would have been like betting on the horse least likely to win. Starting a war against the US like they did was a very risky move, but about the swiftest reaction to a changing balance of force they could have mustered.

Sardaukar -> RE: 1942 war start what if ideas (12/27/2010 7:48:53 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: jwilkerson quote: ORIGINAL: mike scholl 1 Even "fantasy" needs to have a degree of "plausibility". Like "Star Trek" is plausible??? [:D] ... warp 7 anyone ??? [:D][:D][:D] As to plausible alternative history I think Japan WAS moving as a result of what happened in June 1940 ... but their time table was what is was ... could they have moved faster? Well they did not, but they can in an alternate history scenario!!! The editor awaits your pleasure! [:)] If I ever have time, I'll try to make Dec 1940 scenario, because the idea intrigues me and I think Japanese truly got the ball moving in summer 1941 when Germany attacked USSR. I think it might have been possible for them to attack in Dec 1940, of course in different style. There would be no need for Pearl Harbor either, since I think Pacific Fleet was still in San Diego then and not in PH. Of course their carriers would fly Claudes etc...but US carriers would fly Brewsters and "Wind-indicators" etc... Research for this would be a total beast though and I am not sure how much material there would be for 1940 on Japanese side. That's the problem of making historical 1942 scenario too. At least with latter one could get the Japanese official war history and get it translated...and then research it...[X(][:D]

guctony -> RE: 1942 war start what if ideas (12/27/2010 7:58:42 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: jwilkerson Making an alternate history scenario in the editor does not require "justification". One persons perfectly "plausible" scenario might be another person's "fantasy" - but we should not require everyone to agree. When I made my "Cautionaries" scenario, I did what I thought made sense. I did write down my assumptions - but I did not require or expect agreement, I created the scenario for the enjoyment of those who chose to play it! You are right sir. But I have to confess that my knowledge to that specisific area is limited. This way I now have broad sense of what can be a more historical mod. I now consider a 1940 june attack much more likely. Probably omiting Pearl suprise attack. Probably a limited offensive aiming DEI bypassing Philipines directing singapure and hong kong, Once the areas secured japan will look for decisive battle with USA. Another feasible concept is 1942 june attack. Assuming Japans accept China retreat and free alot of land unit. Which can be used to attack Pearl direcly. 1942 mod will be a direct assult to pearl from Marshall islands.

Sardaukar -> RE: 1942 war start what if ideas (12/27/2010 8:43:47 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: guctony quote: ORIGINAL: jwilkerson Making an alternate history scenario in the editor does not require "justification". One persons perfectly "plausible" scenario might be another person's "fantasy" - but we should not require everyone to agree. When I made my "Cautionaries" scenario, I did what I thought made sense. I did write down my assumptions - but I did not require or expect agreement, I created the scenario for the enjoyment of those who chose to play it! You are right sir. But I have to confess that my knowledge to that specisific area is limited. This way I now have broad sense of what can be a more historical mod. I now consider a 1940 june attack much more likely. Probably omiting Pearl suprise attack. Probably a limited offensive aiming DEI bypassing Philipines directing singapure and hong kong, Once the areas secured japan will look for decisive battle with USA. Another feasible concept is 1942 june attack. Assuming Japans accept China retreat and free alot of land unit. Which can be used to attack Pearl direcly. 1942 mod will be a direct assult to pearl from Marshall islands. IJA vetoed any idea of Hawaiian invasion, because Japan lacked shipping to even sustain garrison and population there, much less to do amphibious invasion. So, I suggest following alternative history: In summer 1942, Germany has forced UK & USSR to capitulate, neither are fully occupied but are out of the war for now. USA is at war with Germany & Italy and is actively engaged against German, Italian and Vichy France forces in North Africa (Operation Torch enhanced) and waging naval war against Germany. Two Ocean Naval Act is in full swing, same with US Army and AF buildup. US CVs are mostly committed supporting operations in North Africa and making life difficult to Germany from bases like Iceland & Azores. With ceasefire, UK was forced to cede Hongkong, Burma, Malaya & Singapore to Japan, including all merchant vessels over 1500grt it had in it's Asian and Indian Ocean ports. This is because of secret pact between Japan & Germany for Japan to enter the war and force USA to two-front war. Australia & New Zealand are still at war with Germany, Canada too. Vichy France is de facto ally of Japan. DEI is still neutral by guarantee of USA. War in China still grinds as stalemate, but now Japan will be able to bring in majority of troops garrisoned in Manchuria. How does this sound? Would give lot of extra shipping for Japan. They also could capture lot more from DEI (historically they did sink lot of shipping they could have just captured). This would lead to scenario where India is out of if and Japanese west flank is totally secure. Japan would need to invade & secure DEI, force Australia & NZ out of war and tackle with USA. US would have ANZAC Pact in effect and has stationed sizable ground, air and naval forces in Australia, NZ and several islands, including Free French New Caledonia.

Grfin Zeppelin -> RE: 1942 war start what if ideas (12/27/2010 9:15:10 AM)
I think mike scholl 1 meant also Star Treck has to follow an internal logic and so should every "fantasy scenario" wich is very true. Also realism is gradual, one does not simply have it or not.

Sardaukar -> RE: 1942 war start what if ideas (12/27/2010 9:40:19 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Gräfin Zeppelin I think mike scholl 1 meant also Star Treck has to follow an internal logic and so should every "fantasy scenario" wich is very true. Also realism is gradual, one does not simply have it or not. I am more into "what is possible". It does not have to be "plausible". [:D] Star Trek is not my cup of tea, though. Liked Star Wars more for good villain. [8D]

guctony -> RE: 1942 war start what if ideas (12/27/2010 9:54:15 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Sardaukar quote: ORIGINAL: guctony quote: ORIGINAL: jwilkerson Making an alternate history scenario in the editor does not require "justification". One persons perfectly "plausible" scenario might be another person's "fantasy" - but we should not require everyone to agree. When I made my "Cautionaries" scenario, I did what I thought made sense. I did write down my assumptions - but I did not require or expect agreement, I created the scenario for the enjoyment of those who chose to play it! You are right sir. But I have to confess that my knowledge to that specisific area is limited. This way I now have broad sense of what can be a more historical mod. I now consider a 1940 june attack much more likely. Probably omiting Pearl suprise attack. Probably a limited offensive aiming DEI bypassing Philipines directing singapure and hong kong, Once the areas secured japan will look for decisive battle with USA. Another feasible concept is 1942 june attack. Assuming Japans accept China retreat and free alot of land unit. Which can be used to attack Pearl direcly. 1942 mod will be a direct assult to pearl from Marshall islands. IJA vetoed any idea of Hawaiian invasion, because Japan lacked shipping to even sustain garrison and population there, much less to do amphibious invasion. So, I suggest following alternative history: In summer 1942, Germany has forced UK & USSR to capitulate, neither are fully occupied but are out of the war for now. USA is at war with Germany & Italy and is actively engaged against German, Italian and Vichy France forces in North Africa (Operation Torch enhanced) and waging naval war against Germany. Two Ocean Naval Act is in full swing, same with US Army and AF buildup. US CVs are mostly committed supporting operations in North Africa and making life difficult to Germany from bases like Iceland & Azores. With ceasefire, UK was forced to cede Hongkong, Burma, Malaya & Singapore to Japan, including all merchant vessels over 1500grt it had in it's Asian and Indian Ocean ports. This is because of secret pact between Japan & Germany for Japan to enter the war and force USA to two-front war. Australia & New Zealand are still at war with Germany, Canada too. Vichy France is de facto ally of Japan. DEI is still neutral by guarantee of USA. War in China still grinds as stalemate, but now Japan will be able to bring in majority of troops garrisoned in Manchuria. How does this sound? Would give lot of extra shipping for Japan. They also could capture lot more from DEI (historically they did sink lot of shipping they could have just captured). This would lead to scenario where India is out of if and Japanese west flank is totally secure. Japan would need to invade & secure DEI, force Australia & NZ out of war and tackle with USA. US would have ANZAC Pact in effect and has stationed sizable ground, air and naval forces in Australia, NZ and several islands, including Free French New Caledonia. I have to agree with you about Pearl. In my RA PBEM game I Invade Havai Island , and many island on route to US australia island. Result is mixed. A huge buffer to protect but an extra heavy Fuel bill come with the prize tag. But still only limited assult to pearl Islands and bypassing Pearl could mean alot to japan. To shut of Pearl one not need to assult pearl directly. A long term siege of Island is very beneficient. I was able destroy all BB damaged by first day attack

fcharton -> RE: 1942 war start what if ideas (12/27/2010 10:16:45 AM)
In June 1940, war was already declared for 9 months. Japan could have used this time to make preparations for an early invasion of French, Dutch and British possessions in South East Asia, without anticipating the collapse of the western front in 1940. I don't think Japan lacked the means, nor that they feared US implication (which was still a long long shot, in 1940). The important factor, in my opinion, is the German-Soviet Pact. Until June 1941, USSR is out of the war, Japan's status in the Axis is unclear (it is close to Berlin in its anticommunist stance, but then Berlin has an alliance with Stalin, and needs him at the moment, which puts Soviet Union in a position of strength). Any strong japanese commitment in south east asia at that time would run the risk of russian reaction (in Manchuria or northern China). I believe fear of the Soviet, not of the US, is what prevented Japan from acting. Francois

Keifer -> RE: 1942 war start what if ideas (12/27/2010 8:06:25 PM)
2 Potential Alternative Scenario Ideas: 1.) Japan goes to war in Dec 41 against Britain and NEI only. Goes to war against US after conquering SRA. Is this even possible with the game engine? 2.) The US Army and Navy convince Roosevelt to delay oil embargo for 6 months allowing more US strength in the Pacific. War starts on June 7, 1942.

CaptBeefheart -> RE: 1942 war start what if ideas (12/28/2010 7:21:27 AM)
There are a lot of good ideas on this thread. One thing that interests me is the Japanese taking advantage of the fall of France. The Japanese would not have been fully prepared as people have noted, and it's certainly not in their nature to do something without a lot of advance discussion, but why not hit the DEI and UK possessions in July 1940 from a more-or-less standing start when the UK and Netherlands had very little there? It would be a race against time. Also, I'd assume the U.S. would declare war after the election, say November or December 1940. You'd also have to assume a quiet Russia. In such a scenario, U.S. Army and Marine ground and air reinforcements could be marginally moved up from stock dates, but not USN (other than what historically came from the Atlantic). Also, presumably Oz and NZ troops would remain in theater, but as an offset there's be fewer UK forces sent East. Cheers, CC

guctony -> RE: 1942 war start what if ideas (12/28/2010 9:58:58 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Commander Cody There are a lot of good ideas on this thread. One thing that interests me is the Japanese taking advantage of the fall of France. The Japanese would not have been fully prepared as people have noted, and it's certainly not in their nature to do something without a lot of advance discussion, but why not hit the DEI and UK possessions in July 1940 from a more-or-less standing start when the UK and Netherlands had very little there? It would be a race against time. Also, I'd assume the U.S. would declare war after the election, say November or December 1940. You'd also have to assume a quiet Russia. In such a scenario, U.S. Army and Marine ground and air reinforcements could be marginally moved up from stock dates, but not USN (other than what historically came from the Atlantic). Also, presumably Oz and NZ troops would remain in theater, but as an offset there's be fewer UK forces sent East. Cheers, CC I think the same. This outline makes very few historical changes. The stock scenario can be used. And Because Japan is not so ready it will be still a balanced game.

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