How to get insanely rich (exploit) (Full Version)

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Nibelung44 -> How to get insanely rich (exploit) (12/25/2010 10:05:13 AM)

Hi,

I don't like exploits, so I hope this one can be fixed.

Build a station in another's empire system, like an unarmed cheap monitoring station. Now check its worth in the diplomatic interface. It is in the 300.000 credits range!!




alexalexuk -> RE: How to get insanely rich (exploit) (12/25/2010 10:26:07 AM)

heh, interesting one

that would cause the AI to wardec you or seriously piss them off, but i guess there would be a small amount of time where you could sell this back to the AI..

hardone to fix




adecoy95 -> RE: How to get insanely rich (exploit) (12/25/2010 10:59:44 AM)

i once sold a world for 25 million, it was a 65% ice world with 60 million citizens on it 



caerr -> RE: How to get insanely rich (exploit) (12/25/2010 11:24:07 AM)

I think those numbers need to be seriously toned down, at least for the player trading them. Puny worlds and mining stations shouldn't be worth much more than the cost to build them. The exceptions would be the ones sitting on super rare resources or ruins.



alexalexuk -> RE: How to get insanely rich (exploit) (12/25/2010 11:45:22 AM)

yes, but i think its used for the AI how to measure how important something is, and thats currently done via money...there might need to be a small overhaul to fix that




forsaken1111 -> RE: How to get insanely rich (exploit) (12/25/2010 12:31:00 PM)

Even better!

Step 1: Build mining station around world in enemy system.
Step 2: Sell mining station to enemy.
Step 3: Colonize that world!
Step 4: Sell the colony to the enemy.

Repeat for each world in enemy systems.



caerr -> RE: How to get insanely rich (exploit) (12/25/2010 2:38:25 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: alexalexuk

yes, but i think its used for the AI how to measure how important something is, and thats currently done via money...there might need to be a small overhaul to fix that




That's why I think it's enough to just tone down the numbers for the human player. So if I want to trade a mining station the the AI I would get maybe 10k, where as if I want to buy one from the AI it would still cost me a million or so.



Shark7 -> RE: How to get insanely rich (exploit) (12/25/2010 4:26:58 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: alexalexuk

heh, interesting one

that would cause the AI to wardec you or seriously piss them off, but i guess there would be a small amount of time where you could sell this back to the AI..

hardone to fix




Actually, what usually happens is that they first demand you give it to them, you say no, then you sell it to them...at less than the labeled cost and you end up increasing reputation and diplomacy level from the deal. It is an exploit for sure.

A quick fix to this would be to have the AI empires simply attack your constructor if it enters there territory...no you won't be able to build a station there because your construction ship would go boom.



the1sean -> RE: How to get insanely rich (exploit) (12/26/2010 3:48:47 PM)

yeah, it would be nice if this game had a territory/bounday effect like the CIV series where players cant colonize or build new bases in systems owned/colonized by other empires without immediately causing major diplomatic damage/causus-beli.



forsaken1111 -> RE: How to get insanely rich (exploit) (12/26/2010 3:50:31 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: the1sean

yeah, it would be nice if this game had a territory/bounday effect like the CIV series where players cant colonize or build new bases in systems owned/colonized by other empires without immediately causing major diplomatic damage/causus-beli.


That would be terrible.



Shark7 -> RE: How to get insanely rich (exploit) (12/26/2010 4:33:04 PM)

Diplomacy could be expanded to make such agreements.

I want to build a Resort Base at Planet X in your territory. If you allow me to build it, you get 20% of the profits.

etc



DasTactic -> RE: How to get insanely rich (exploit) (12/26/2010 7:25:32 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: the1sean

yeah, it would be nice if this game had a territory/bounday effect like the CIV series where players cant colonize or build new bases in systems owned/colonized by other empires without immediately causing major diplomatic damage/causus-beli.


This would be good.

If you have ordered a constructor/colony ship to a system that has a mining station it could trigger a minor incident where a pop-up appears requesting confirmation. If you follow through it could impact your rep and the relationship with the other player.

If you have ordered a constructor/colony ship to a system that has been colonised by another player it could spark a major incident where a pop-up appears again but this time the results are more dire. Eg. Possible trade sanctions or war, big hit to reputation, damage relationship with all races friendly to the other player, etc.



the1sean -> RE: How to get insanely rich (exploit) (12/27/2010 12:52:44 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: the1sean

yeah, it would be nice if this game had a territory/bounday effect like the CIV series where players cant colonize or build new bases in systems owned/colonized by other empires without immediately causing major diplomatic damage/causus-beli.


quote:

ORIGINAL: forsaken1111

That would be terrible.


Why? Your comment is neither constructive nor informative...


quote:

ORIGINAL: Das123

This would be good.

If you have ordered a constructor/colony ship to a system that has a mining station it could trigger a minor incident where a pop-up appears requesting confirmation. If you follow through it could impact your rep and the relationship with the other player.

If you have ordered a constructor/colony ship to a system that has been colonised by another player it could spark a major incident where a pop-up appears again but this time the results are more dire. Eg. Possible trade sanctions or war, big hit to reputation, damage relationship with all races friendly to the other player, etc.


The civ series and EU series all contain strong border themes, and they bring a lot of the meaning into the conflict of the games. Right of passage agreements and diplomatic wrangling over resources would naturally extend the depth of this game. Almost all modern and ancient wars were rooted in resource control and exploitation.




Nibelung44 -> RE: How to get insanely rich (exploit) (12/27/2010 8:26:52 AM)

My monitoring station in the Dayhut system is now worth 3.000.000 credits. That's totally not in proportion of their empire by the way, not to speak of the absolute insane cost even for a big empire.

I guess that I could ask them all their money, all their techs, that they declare war to who I want, plus they will kiss my a*** and become my slave if I sell it to them [:-]

(I'm not selling it or if I do, it will be for at most 100k)



forsaken1111 -> RE: How to get insanely rich (exploit) (12/27/2010 1:33:17 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: the1sean

Why? Your comment is neither constructive nor informative...



I just don't think a territory/border system is the answer. One thing I like about DW is how messy it gets. Borders give you a free buffer zone around your empire that you couldn't possibly enforce normally with your fleet. I'd much prefer a way to claim planets and systems without planting colonies rather than some magical political border that springs up around you and prevents enemies from taking your stuff.



elmo3 -> RE: How to get insanely rich (exploit) (12/27/2010 1:38:08 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: the1sean

yeah, it would be nice if this game had a territory/bounday effect like the CIV series where players cant colonize or build new bases in systems owned/colonized by other empires without immediately causing major diplomatic damage/causus-beli.


Galactic Civilizations has this now. I hope DW will not go that route. The current system feels much more "realistic" to me. If you want planets then colonize them and defend them!



forsaken1111 -> RE: How to get insanely rich (exploit) (12/27/2010 1:47:33 PM)

I don't think Galactic Civilizations (1 or 2) should be used as a model for any game. I've played them both and dislike them thoroughly.



Nibelung44 -> RE: How to get insanely rich (exploit) (12/27/2010 2:12:54 PM)

+1



the1sean -> RE: How to get insanely rich (exploit) (12/27/2010 6:32:41 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: forsaken1111
I just don't think a territory/border system is the answer. One thing I like about DW is how messy it gets. Borders give you a free buffer zone around your empire that you couldn't possibly enforce normally with your fleet. I'd much prefer a way to claim planets and systems without planting colonies rather than some magical political border that springs up around you and prevents enemies from taking your stuff.


No, I agree that some magical flag-colored line is not the answer. I just think that once a player has colonized a system that there should be more ramifications if another empire infringes on that system.

If a starbase was there before the system was colonized, and gives access to resources, I can see its worth in trade. BUT, if a starbase is built after said system is colonized by another empire, then I think it should be seen as a diplomatic affront, and the base shouldnt be worth much at all in trade. Overall, I think that starbases are overvalued in trade, and techs are undervalued.





Erik Rutins -> RE: How to get insanely rich (exploit) (12/27/2010 10:31:55 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: the1sean
If a starbase was there before the system was colonized, and gives access to resources, I can see its worth in trade. BUT, if a starbase is built after said system is colonized by another empire, then I think it should be seen as a diplomatic affront, and the base shouldnt be worth much at all in trade. Overall, I think that starbases are overvalued in trade, and techs are undervalued.


This seems like a good suggestion.

Regards,

- Erik



the1sean -> RE: How to get insanely rich (exploit) (12/28/2010 4:08:46 AM)

It would be cool if AI empires sent messages of warning if players infringe on their territory with bases or colonies, and then would take diplomatic and or militant measures to rectify the situation. This is one of the few major exploits left in the game since the tech trade issue was dealt with during the Beta.



Krob -> RE: How to get insanely rich (exploit) (12/28/2010 9:36:01 AM)

The value of stations should be proportional to the value/percentages of the resources they're mining. Likewise, a newly established colony should be worth a small fraction of a fully developed world. And if you're going to effect a diplomatic system to enforce boundaries, you definitely need to provide an opt out when the constructor/colony ship arrives and finds someone else there. Ideally, it would drop your ship out of warp the moment your scouts/sensors detected another race's claim (the way it does if you send a ship against a pirate base and the base is destroyed before it gets there).

As an aside, there really needs to be some persistence with scouting. If I scout a system and see stations present, they should remain "visible" in the fog of war after my ships have left. I couldn't tell you how many times I've sent constructors to scouted systems only to find fully functional stations already present. Unless they have prefab stations that just drop, there's often no way they could have been built in the time it took my constructor to arrive.


K



the1sean -> RE: How to get insanely rich (exploit) (12/29/2010 4:40:21 PM)

good points made. As a note, new colonies are only worth a fraction of fully developed ones, but they are still rated as quite valuable compared to a mining station or a low-level tech. The main issue isnt the value of new colonies, it is that players can exploit the AI with them. A player can exploit the AI empires by settling inside one of the AI empire's colonized systems (the AI currently doesnt take any immediate hostile action), and then sells said colony to that empire for mega-cash and prizes (tech, war, better relations, etc).

Ideally, colonizing or station-building inside another empire's territory should have harsh repercussions. There would be instantaneous political saber-rattling (angry message, temporary relations hit), and the AI wouldnt pay squat for said colony or station, it would just demand it in exchange for not starting a war (violent) or embargo (peaceful). If that demand isnt met, any player or AI should be able to attack and destroy/sieze the target without a reputation hit (like a "causus-belli" in the EU series, those games have great diplomacy and war resolution models).



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