RE: German 1941 GC - normal (Full Version)

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randallw -> RE: German 1941 GC - normal (1/18/2011 4:01:39 AM)

There's different parts of winter; sometimes it's just 'ice' and other times 'blizzard'.




CharonJr -> RE: German 1941 GC - normal (1/18/2011 6:10:50 PM)

Thx :)

Concerning the weather till the beginning of February it will be blizzards anywhere. But the next turn should have some snow in the western areas and the Krim.

I agree with not having to repeat history. But pulling back the mobile units home does seem a little to heavy.

Abd my offensives are mainly done by the Finns - who dont care about the weather. On the Krim I had enough forces to push the few Soviet units back and getting a good start for the drive to Baku seems valuable enough to me to allow my forces to get roughed up a little bit;) Other than that I am only doing small scale attacks to keep the Soviets from advancing too fast, again with superior numbers. IMO it all comes down to risk vs. reward and if I do attack I try to stack the deck heavily in my favor ;)

Well, 1 more month to go, then we will see if I was able to hold, but I don't expect to lose very much ground now, the early success in lowering the number of Soviet troops surely did help. But it gets harder each turn with nearly all my reserves comitted now.

CharonJr




CharonJr -> RE: German 1941 GC - normal (1/18/2011 8:35:17 PM)

T33:

LVII Panzer reach Orel. My only remaining "reserve" is XL Panzer in Moscow now.

With the arriving infantry I am fainally able to pull some mobile units away from the frontline around Voronezh, but I doubt that they will get much rest.

With the hordes of Soviets I am facing to the west of Voronezh I decide to start moving some units into the second defensive line running a bit farther to the west. But I will try to hold the first line (at least in some areas) till the 2nd line has some forts

The Romanian cav corps around Kharkov is send NE to help digging.

I try some deliberate attacks on the Soviet line around Orel, hoping to force them to disperse their units a little bit.

In the north the Finnish attacks continue on the Soviet line.

The weather at the Krim will change to snow next turn, I will try to see if there might be any additional fairly easy gains in for me in my way towards Baku which is on my list of objectives for '42.

No fort levels this turn in order to show you the current supply levels of my units - not pretty despite airsupply.

edit: As can be seen the HQ supply levels are decent, but few supplies are getting through to the units. Nay idea what causes this? Low motor pool or general problems with the blizzards?


[image]local://upfiles/16421/EAFEBC068D4549629447B219B308BB5D.jpg[/image]




british exil -> RE: German 1941 GC - normal (1/19/2011 7:49:49 PM)

Charon you'll probably find the HQ staff hogging the supplies and having a cosy Winter while the Landsers and Pzr Grenadiere are freezing and starving.

Thus no supplies. But you seem to be pulling off quite a good show. Keep up the good work.

Mat




CharonJr -> RE: German 1941 GC - normal (1/19/2011 8:28:56 PM)

I just wish I had any idea why this is happening...

[image]local://upfiles/16421/ED21D10E9FB34D728A2D8FA50CCB0BCE.jpg[/image]




randallw -> RE: German 1941 GC - normal (1/19/2011 8:49:00 PM)

Try the supply details link for each unit, see if something there is obvious.




CharonJr -> RE: German 1941 GC - normal (1/19/2011 8:53:28 PM)

More supplies are used than received and only 30%-50% are received, but I have no idea why. Distance to HQ and rail is 2, MPs are 6 (the HQ sits right on the rail).

CharonJr




CharonJr -> RE: German 1941 GC - normal (1/19/2011 9:37:13 PM)

T34:

The overall number of Soviet attacks went down this turn, this might be a good sign that they start to run into some supply problems. I was only forced to retreat twiche to the west of Voronezh.

The 4 fresh infantry divisions and 5 Ju-52 groups I got this turn will give a nice - and much needed - boost to my frontline.

In the north the Finns continue to harass the Soviet units, forcing 6 to retreat and 2 to rout.

After 2 attacks the Soviet infantry division defending the lvl 3 fort to the east of Kerch is forced to retreat (no more blizzards here, just normal winter which allows my units to recover some of their CV). A third attack by my Panzers forces them to rout, allowing me to move 25th Mot right into Kuban.

FBD1 has reached the Krim, too, but it will take quite a number of additional turns before I will be able to rail in additional units (which is not that bad since I cant spare any units at the moment anyway), but FBD5 is starting to move towards the Krim anyway.

It will be interesting to see how the AI reacts to this new front. IMO it was a mistake to only guard the passage with 1 rifle division.

Almost all my remaining fortified zones are disbanded this turn, I hope to prevent having too many unready units next turn since I already had to remove about 6 unready infantry divisions from the frontline.

The major pullback around Voronezh is nearly completed, now I will have to see if the new line is able to hold.

For some reason (end of the blizzards at the Krim?) I have even been able to regain some forces during this turn, but not surprisingly the Soviets gained more. But I think/hope I should be able to get through the winter with more than 3 million men.

And a look at the disabled levels shows fairly nicely how hard the blizzards have hit the German army, I am nearly at the same level as the Soviets now.

A large map for a general overview this time:



[image]local://upfiles/16421/E0DFEB564F634B1C8E92FB2E6178D5DD.jpg[/image]




CharonJr -> RE: German 1941 GC - normal (1/19/2011 9:57:23 PM)

And despite the blizzards the win/loss ratios of my corps commanders aren't bad at all IMO:

This reminds me that I want to change some of those, especially since I am nearly at max APs again.

In addition this shows quite nicely that I rarely use panzers for offensive attacks - except now to throw back penetrating units or getting attacked since they have to anchor the frontline.

[image]local://upfiles/16421/561419EBF7284973BF56843E6A4DE02B.jpg[/image]




janh -> RE: German 1941 GC - normal (1/20/2011 12:48:43 PM)

Great AAR, like your style!  I see a huge threat to Rhezhev -- the forces you pointed out.  Against a human player, I would definitely also expect an effort to pocket your exposed balcony at Rostov...

Given your strenuous supply situation, have you withdrawn had any "Verlegungen" of units to Germany for a urgent rest & refit period during winter?  I recall that the Germans did so with a number of formations on regular basis, switch them out to French or Germany until they got replenished in spring. 

Also, how is your air situation holding up?  What are you doing presently with your air assets?






CharonJr -> RE: German 1941 GC - normal (1/20/2011 5:04:30 PM)

Thank you, and no, all the units are needed at the frontline here, no Vewrlegungen to a nicer climate since I have nothing to replace those units. Currently the only units not at the front (or near it) are 1 corps holding Leningrad and 1 corps in the Stalino area in addition to the mobile reserves at Moscow and Stalino.

I hope that my Rhezhev line will hold till I am able to move up some new divisions from the rear.

Concerning Rostov I would be more worried vs. a humna, too, but lvl 3 and 4 forts make me feel comfortable vs. the AI. And giving the AI something to worry about in the south should help here, too.

In the air I am basically just doing supply/fuel missions and supporting my ground attacks - except for too many damaged transports (due to fighters not willing to escort them - bad rolls) - the situation is fairly good.

The Soviet air juggernaut is starting to wake up a little bit with some airbase bombings, but nothing too heavy yet (will likely change with better weather). But I should be able to overrun some Soviet airbases during the '42 offensives.




randallw -> RE: German 1941 GC - normal (1/20/2011 8:17:17 PM)

It won't get easier for the Luftwaffe from here.  The growth for the Soviet Air Force will go through 1942.




Balou -> RE: German 1941 GC - normal (1/20/2011 9:48:04 PM)

Awsome AAR, lots of valuable information and comments, thanks. If you find time, a couple of questions regarding micromanaging:
1.support units: do you use/assign them ? If so, what priorities ?
2.leaders: did you change them, based on what ?
3.air recon: did you draw additional recon units from your nat. reserve ?
4.SU AC-losses (yes, you routed a lot of SU-airfields): but beyond that ?
5.HQ buildup?




CharonJr -> RE: German 1941 GC - normal (1/20/2011 9:56:38 PM)

T35:

Something unexpected happened to the south of Tula, 5 Soviet brigades (3 tank, 2 rifle) rushed west and cut off 3 of my infantry divisions, but in doing so they set themself up to be isolated. And the attack displaced IX Korps HQ, no more supply hogging for this quartermaster... ;)

To the south of Moscow my lvl3 fort fell to a lucky attack by the Soviets, the time of resting for XL Panzer is over now. At CV 11, 94 morale/XP and 45MPs 5th Panzer has no problems in throwing the Soviets back, but I lost my fortification.

Most of my Panzerkorps south of Tula (at least most of their units, usually there is still one right at the front somewhere, especially some units trying to isolate the breakthrough at Tula) are away from the frontline for now, but I expect they will be needed again shortly.

3 newly recruited infantry divisions arrive at Torzhok and 1 around Orel. 2 additionol divisions and 1 HQ arrive in the theater and make their way to Vilnius by rail, heading towards the front (most likely to Rzhev) on the next turn.

Around Novorossiysk I can see about 2 Soviet corps now, but I think that they will need more than this to stop my advance here. Kuban is secured by another infantry division and a heavy Soviet rifle division is forced to retreat by my armor. About 320t of fuel are dropped directly at the armor. No more blizzards here till the next winter.

In the north Finnish forces manage to force 10 Soviet units to retreat and 2 to rout.

It seems like the Soviets are starting to feel the pain, too, they only recovered 30k men while Germany managed to get +20k (and those are still blizzard turns, but I will surely not complain).

Since the turn 34 (beginning of February) Germany seems to regain more men than it loses due to attrition.



[image]local://upfiles/16421/A6DB93D06C254EE2AC0FD3232040ABE4.jpg[/image]




CharonJr -> RE: German 1941 GC - normal (1/20/2011 10:07:53 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Balou

Awsome AAR, lots of valuable information and comments, thanks. If you find time, a couple of questions regarding micromanaging:
1.support units: do you use/assign them ? If so, what priorities ?
2.leaders: did you change them, based on what ?
3.air recon: did you draw additional recon units from your nat. reserve ?
4.SU AC-losses (yes, you routed a lot of SU-airfields): but beyond that ?
5.HQ buildup?


1. No, I leave those totally to the AI (basically the only thing I did was setting my mobile corps to refit mode for priority replacements - and I emulated ComradeP's dismissal of the small flak companies). The only thing I do is trying to attack the hardest targets first for each corps/army to potentially get the largest number of support units.

2. Yes, I change them mostly based on their ratings, anything below 6-7 mech/inf has to go. In addition I try to replace leaders with poor non-combat skills if there are better leaders around and I have APs to spare. Currently I only replaced some leaders since I am afraid of too many losses during the winter for new leaders on the one hand, but didnt want to waste too many APs (by having reached 500 AP) on the other hand.

3. No, I still have 5 recon groups waiting to be assigned, I even put some into the reserves or disbanded them. I think I am actually not using enough recon.

4. Put those in the last report since the question about air came up earlier. I have no idea if those SU losses are high or low, but beside turn 1 bombings and some overruns I have not focused on SU air at all.

5. No, I was tempted to use it a few times, but the penalties looked too high for me. My armored corps were fairly mobile for most of the time anyway due to me giving them fairly excessive rests.

edit: And thank you :)




Balou -> RE: German 1941 GC - normal (1/20/2011 10:43:02 PM)

Thanks for your reply. I mentioned SU AC-losses because someone (BigAnorak ?) mentioned somewhere that SU AC - and mostly tac bombers - will start to become a huge problem later on. Of course, given your postion by now, inflicted losses and so on, 1942 could be a piece of cake and War in the East will be over for the Soviets before the skies fill with IL2 and the like. T23 says 8000+ AC (4 times your airforce), and these pilots are not sitting just around, I guess a lot of them are flying training missions. Worried ?




CharonJr -> RE: German 1941 GC - normal (1/20/2011 11:10:05 PM)

A little bit, mainly because I have no experience what those planes/pilots are capable of, but judging from what the Luftwaffe is able to do (not that much) not really worried, but this might change ;)





stewartbragg -> RE: German 1941 GC - normal (1/21/2011 2:13:14 AM)

What TOE replacement level did you set your units on? 50%, 60%, 70% or higher? I'm asking this as I usually do 70% and 100% where I plan to attack in the Spring.




CharonJr -> RE: German 1941 GC - normal (1/21/2011 7:32:40 AM)

All are still at 100% at the moment, will most likely dial down AGN when the weather improves since this front will remain fairly static.




randallw -> RE: German 1941 GC - normal (1/21/2011 7:43:44 AM)

The modern Soviet fighters decently match up with German ones, but training in the national reserve brings experience up very very slowly, so your side ( Axis ) will still have the experience advantage.




CharonJr -> RE: German 1941 GC - normal (1/21/2011 6:04:25 PM)

T36:

The mini pocket held (and was air supplied, costing the Soviets about 20 transports) and is cleared this turn.

It seems like my little threat towards the Kaukasus has worked, the Soviet lines around Rostov look much better now, but I have been essentially frozen in place at Kuban by fairly heavy Soviet forces.

With the large number of Soviet forces around Voronezh the Rzhev front will get no more reinforcements for now. The 2 infantry divisions and the HQ are send towards Kursk.

East of Stalino 1 Soviet tank brigade and a guards cav corps slipped through the line and retreat to the west after being attacked by XIV Panzer, I will try to isolate those, too.

In the north about 10 Soviet units were forced to retreat, some routed. It seems like the Soviets are massing quite a large number of forces there, I can count about 80 CV with most of them at the northern portion of the front (trying to liberate Leningrad? - but with the Finns sitting in lvl 3 forts this will not be enough).

Due to the number of unready units I start to merge some units (6 merged into 3) since even with only a few turns left before the blizzards are over I am afraid it would take too long to get them back up to strength in addition to being afraid they might be shattered by attacks.

Unless I am mistaken only 1 more turn of blizzards after this one. And while I should be able to largely hold my current positions it might still get a little ugly with the current concentrations of Soviet forces.



[image]local://upfiles/16421/787D19D5407D41C3A94BCFD84F098674.jpg[/image]




CharonJr -> RE: German 1941 GC - normal (1/21/2011 10:28:59 PM)

T37:

Not much to do this turn except assigning some OKH divisions to corps and some more attacks by the Finns.

The remaining isolated unit around Stalino (the pocket held) is forced to surrender and the armor moves into rest positions.

Around Kuban is attack at the weakest spot to keep the Soviets from building forts and making it more difficult for me to break out later. With the airdropped fuel all mobile units are at 100%+ fuel.

2 fairly banged up armor divisions are switched for 2 fairly fresh ones to the east of Tula.

With facing very high Soviet CVs (around 16)around Voronezh my 2 brave divisions manning my eastern lvl2 fort fall back 1 hex SW, no need to risk getting them isolated at this point.

I think for the Soviets it will be now or never to launch any further attacks, when this turn is over the Wehrmacht will start to get stronger again and I will start to look for weak spots in the Soviet line instead of the other way around. Especially with my armor to the NE and SE of Voronezh there might be the potential for a nice pocket and the situation around Tula might offer some possibilities, too.

And the Red Army has quite a number of spots where it can/should try to attack as long as its advantage lasts, mainly around Torzhok, Tula, Voronezh and Voroshilovgrad.

But it looks like the Soviets running into some supply problems of their own, a fair number of orange indicators now.

German force levels have stabilised while the Red Army is still growing, only in AFVs German has been able to maintain its advantage (lost factories?).



[image]local://upfiles/16421/9C9E6A492C4E41049BEF66A840EFEBB1.jpg[/image]




randallw -> RE: German 1941 GC - normal (1/21/2011 11:14:53 PM)

Figure out the supply problem for that corps yet?  Perhaps not enough support squads?




CharonJr -> RE: German 1941 GC - normal (1/21/2011 11:48:28 PM)

No, frankly no idea, I have put it on the blizzards and my low motor pool here, I suppose trucks are needed to get the supplies from the corps to the divisions, right?




randallw -> RE: German 1941 GC - normal (1/22/2011 12:30:20 AM)

Yes, there's some form of truck requirements for that.




kevini1000 -> RE: German 1941 GC - normal (1/22/2011 1:25:26 AM)


1. No, I leave those totally to the AI (basically the only thing I did was setting my mobile corps to refit mode for priority replacements - and I emulated ComradeP's dismissal of the small flak companies). The only thing I do is trying to attack the hardest targets first for each corps/army to potentially get the largest number of support units.



I'd like to learn/know more about the dismissal of the small flak companies and other units the axis would dismissed to add more supply for mud/blizzard.

Thanks

Sath




CharonJr -> RE: German 1941 GC - normal (1/22/2011 1:41:23 AM)

T38:

A good number of Soviet attacks (20) from Torzhok down to Kuban, but only 2 of them succeeded, forcing 5 of my divisions to retreat.

Instead of starting this turn some "blizzard review" (start of turn 38 vs. end of turn 18):

The frontline has stayed largely the same with the Germans mostly losing some ground except for taking the Krim.

Despite the blizzards the Soviets suffered only slightly lower losses in men (989k vs. 950k), but lost way more guns (3.8k vs. 14.1k) and AFVs (0.9k vs. 3.4k).

The Germans lost a huge number of trucks due to moving supplies (62k vs. 21k during the first 18 turns).

Soviet air losses were actually higher than for Germany (0.6k vs. 1.4k), most likely due to training missions.

But due to their very superior industry - and having not that many other fronts to worry about -the Soviets managed to come out of this winter much stronger than before while Germany suffered. Germany replaced about 470k men vs. 2730k for the Soviets, about 0.4k guns vs. 39.7k, about 0.9k tanks vs. 4.3k and about 0.9k planes vs. 4.9k).

The brave Finnish forces lost about 100k men and some guns and as an estimate they took about 3-5 times this number of Soviet troops and freed up the German units from guarding the northern front.


Lessons learned:

If Soviets got damaged fairly heavily earlier no fortified zones are needed, just starting to dig in with the units is enough. Maybe fortified zones are not needed anyway as some players have suggested.

Freeing up the Finns (capturing Leningrad) is of paramount importance for Germany in '41. Only the line the Finns have been able to hold allowed me to have enough troops to cover the more sensitive areas on other parts of the front. And they were even able to attack and force the Soviets to keep fairly large numbers of troops in the north instead of using them to overrun my positions further south.

If you cant take Leningrad at least try to open up a way through the fortifications in order to allow them Finns to move south and take up defensive positions.

A line between Moscow (if you can get it) - Tula - Stalino should be as far east as the Germans should try to push IMO, everything east of it is basically overextended even if I have been able to hold onto Rostov and Voroshilovgrad. But try to advance as far east as you can before returning to this line since it will damage the Soviet rails and should give them some supply problems.

Mountain units (including the Hungarian and Romanian ones) are really great anchors for the defensive lines during the winter, often even being able to attack.

The attrition losses are really nasty (about 70k each turn) and the only thing which might mitigate this would be placing less units directly at the frontline. I am still not sure if the added losses from lost battles are worth it, but since the supply situation is pure hell during the blizzards having more units not in contact with the enemy should help there, too.

Also the bad supply situation makes smart rail repair very important, I neglected this (partly due to earlier mistakes which keep my FBDs behind where they could have been - watch out for curves, especially if you do not switch of the weather effects for the map - do switch them off, the map is a lot easier to read this way).

I have found no real means to improve my supply situation till the end, but suspect there is nothing that can be done about it during the blizzards. But setting security divisions and other (mainly Romanian) divisions that only guard cities to static mode did free up some vehicles. In addition getting rid of excess corps/airbases (mainly Romanian again) should help, too. And do this as soon as possible to prevent the strain from keeping those units around.

Use air supply to get supplies to the frontline, but be aware that often your fighters will not scramble to protect you level bombers/transports, so you will lose quite a number of those, but IMO this is better than getting overrun due to having weak units in the line.

And move those airbases as close to the front (while still getting good supplies) as you dare, I did this too late and think I could have prevented some supply shortages if I had moved them earlier. In some places I feel I have let them stay too far behind till the end.

Check your units on the front for low levels of supply/ammo and either switch them out or at least try to air supply them.

Keep mobile reserves in the rear to strengthen any weak spots or throw back breakthroughs. With sufficient strength and rested up units you should be able to contain most of the smaller breakthroughs. But in order to do this you have to try to have your armor stay behind the frontline and in cities as much as possible.

Try to use terrain (mainly rough/woods since rivers will ice over) in your defensive line as well as cities/towns.

It will remain to be seen if the drive through the Krim and thus getting into a good position for a '42 drive to Baku will be worth the losses of attacking during the snow in the end.

I am also still undecided about merging units. It surely helps in strengthening the line, but I am not sure if those units will not be missed during the '42 attacks.

And a general observation, dont leave your HQs exposed (like I still do too often) if you go for a concentraetd line with free hexes in between, Soviet mobile units will push through here fairly often and displace those HQs.

Despite the length of text I am sure that I am still missing some important points, so feel free to add anything which might be important.



[image]local://upfiles/16421/6E0C17FAC42C42DF8B821B3884D7A4F2.jpg[/image]




CharonJr -> RE: German 1941 GC - normal (1/22/2011 1:49:07 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: sath


1. No, I leave those totally to the AI (basically the only thing I did was setting my mobile corps to refit mode for priority replacements - and I emulated ComradeP's dismissal of the small flak companies). The only thing I do is trying to attack the hardest targets first for each corps/army to potentially get the largest number of support units.



I'd like to learn/know more about the dismissal of the small flak companies and other units the axis would dismissed to add more supply for mud/blizzard.

Thanks

Sath


Should have covered most of it in the post above.

Concerning the flak companies, well, they are basically too small to offer any real benefit. So dismissing them to prevent them getting involved in a battle instead of a better support unit might be helpful.

Basically it comes down to streamlining your forces as much as possible, I think I could have dismissed a few additional HQs, but since I am not sure how many additional divisions the Romanians will be getting in the future I did not dismiss that many of them.




kfmiller41 -> RE: German 1941 GC - normal (1/22/2011 1:58:52 AM)

It is amazing that the Russian army recovered to such a degree, you beat the hell out of them. If I was going to take anything away from this excellent AAR it would be to kill as much of the enemy as you can, because it they had those extra 2-3 million men you would be crushed. You cannot be cautious early in the game as the German army from this example and I don't think most Russian players will allow those kinds of pockets it they can help it, especially after reading this AAR[X(]




kevini1000 -> RE: German 1941 GC - normal (1/22/2011 2:02:40 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: CharonJr


quote:

ORIGINAL: sath


1. No, I leave those totally to the AI (basically the only thing I did was setting my mobile corps to refit mode for priority replacements - and I emulated ComradeP's dismissal of the small flak companies). The only thing I do is trying to attack the hardest targets first for each corps/army to potentially get the largest number of support units.



I'd like to learn/know more about the dismissal of the small flak companies and other units the axis would dismissed to add more supply for mud/blizzard.

Thanks

Sath


Should have covered most of it in the post above.

Concerning the flak companies, well, they are basically too small to offer any real benefit. So dismissing them to prevent them getting involved in a battle instead of a better support unit might be helpful.

Basically it comes down to streamlining your forces as much as possible, I think I could have dismissed a few additional HQs, but since I am not sure how many additional divisions the Romanians will be getting in the future I did not dismiss that many of them.



could these AA units be put directly in cities. oh but when disbanded they would go back into the force pool right.

sath




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