RE: For the Soviet PBEMers (Full Version)

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raizer -> RE: For the Soviet PBEMers (1/3/2011 11:55:05 PM)

why are you guys all over the AI-AIs in all games can never compete with humans...you get this game to play humans-the AI just trains you about all the little things you need to beat a human. AIs will never be a match for people. no game company has the resources to craft a competent AI...wake up and play a person if you tire of an easy victory



Ketza -> RE: For the Soviet PBEMers (1/4/2011 12:18:28 AM)

I still remember the day I figured out that the AI of computer games sucked. It was my 2nd game of SSIs "Guadacanal" circa 1983ish and I noticed the computer did the exact same thing as the game before....

Before that I always figured the computer would be smarter then me :)



MengJiao -> RE: For the Soviet PBEMers (1/4/2011 2:13:48 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: raizer

figure a lot will want to pbem as sovs lol


No kidding. The only real Sov PBEM problem is finding an axis
player who will either play through to 1943 or start after 1941.



MengJiao -> RE: For the Soviet PBEMers (1/4/2011 2:16:58 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: redmarkus4

So, is everyone quite happy and chirpy about a game setup that allows a Soviet '43 capture of Berlin on 'Normal'? (On Easy, OK, but surely not on Normal???)


Sounds normal to me.



TulliusDetritus -> RE: For the Soviet PBEMers (1/4/2011 2:36:46 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: redmarkus4
So, is everyone quite happy and chirpy about a game setup that allows a Soviet '43 capture of Berlin on 'Normal'? (On Easy, OK, but surely not on Normal???)


Play historically. Don't break the AI [8D] You should use the what- ifs (letīs invade Romania on autumn 1941) with a human opponent. The problem is if he is only 1/5 competent, you are dead [:D]



MengJiao -> RE: For the Soviet PBEMers (1/4/2011 3:11:53 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: TulliusDetritus

quote:

ORIGINAL: redmarkus4
So, is everyone quite happy and chirpy about a game setup that allows a Soviet '43 capture of Berlin on 'Normal'? (On Easy, OK, but surely not on Normal???)


Play historically. Don't break the AI [8D] You should use the what- ifs (letīs invade Romania on autumn 1941) with a human opponent. The problem is if he is only 1/5 competent, you are dead [:D]


I agree that Axis players will need to be a bit imaginative and work on something other than beating up the Russians in 1941 -- which is fine in itself, but against a human Russian opponent, early 1942 is usually going to look very grim.

I suggest starting in something close to an historical 1942. I suggest an historical 1942 (before the Russians get trashed at Kharkov) has many interesting options for both sides and you can just take the historical results of 1941 and not try to fudge all the factors to get it.



mantrain -> RE: For the Soviet PBEMers (1/4/2011 3:27:32 PM)

hey, what are those brown counters doing around Berlin?



amatteucci -> RE: For the Soviet PBEMers (1/4/2011 3:38:20 PM)

In fact I think that getting to Berlin a year and half earlier than the historical benchmark does not imply that the AI did a poor job. Even if I agree that there is, undoubtedly, room for improving the AI, mainly for what concernes the 'historicity' of its behaviour.

In my current CG game I was able to stop the German advance, roughly, on the Dvina (well, not really ;)) and Dnepr line after being routed, pocketed or simply pushed along until then. I was fotunate enough to be able to build a defensive line along these rivers by the time rasputitsa set in and then the front stabilized. It wasn't too hard to do but it wasn't easy either (in my first CG I gave up after the AI actually managed to encircle both Leningrad and Moscow).
Then, as the winter arrived, I was able to organize some local couterattacks and slowly push backward the invaders.

This meant that I hadn't Leningrad besieged or Crimea overran. I had to start my "liberation" further west than the Read Army actually had to do, with fewer losses and bigger production.
Long story short, I managed to stop the Germans avoiding both Operation Typhoon and Case Blue. This means at least 2+6 months of German advances avoided. Assuming that the time to recover invaded areas ir roughly equal to the time it took for them to be overran, this means that a 16 month shorter war. If we also consider the increased Soviet production (due to scarce industry relocation) and the Germans that cannot take advantage of the 1944 production boost, we see that the performance of the AI wasn't that poor.

Opinions?




raizer -> RE: For the Soviet PBEMers (1/4/2011 3:46:59 PM)

well the game must be playable against humans during 1942 for both sides...otherwise interest will wain greatly because no one wants to invest any time in a game where the outcome will be  predetermined 25% into it



gradenko2k -> RE: For the Soviet PBEMers (1/4/2011 3:49:43 PM)

I wish I had read about the recommended AI setting earlier: I thought it was weird to be able to stop the Germans dead cold at the Dvina/Dnepr rivers with nary an attempt at a breakthrough.

Am I supposed to set the Soviet AI to challenging/hard as well, or is it better at playing the Reds?



Joel Billings -> RE: For the Soviet PBEMers (1/4/2011 6:18:53 PM)

The Soviet AI plays one notch better than the German AI. So if you want a basic game, play German AI challenging, Soviet AI normal. Once you are experienced with the system, you should play German AI Hard, and Soviet AI Challenging. That's my suggestion.

I find it funny that there are so many predictions of German agony in 1942 when very few games have gotten that far. In my games against the Soviet Challenging AI where the German army took a beating in 1941, I was able to hurt the Soviets quite a bit in 42. Granted this was many versions ago, so things have likely changed, but I would ask that people reserve judgement until we see some actual game results (both vs upgunned AI and PBEM).



usecase -> RE: For the Soviet PBEMers (1/4/2011 6:38:46 PM)

I'm sure it won't happen again ;), but I've just conceded my Soviet '41 GC against the hard Axis AI - it beat me like a red-headed stepchild.

I'm not desperately happy about the manner in which it did so - with the difficulty settings, it can apparently perform magical feats of logistics, but nonetheless, Leningrad was taken, Moscow pretty much isolated and the Axis created an enormous pocket from Kursk to Sevastapol.

We just have to accept that a challenging game will require considerable boostage of the computer opponent; if you are prepared to accept that, try playing on hard. It's fearsome :).



gradenko2k -> RE: For the Soviet PBEMers (1/5/2011 1:34:29 AM)

Thank you for the response, Joel.

As a follow up question, does the AI play with the same proficiency at all levels, and its units are just that much stronger on Hard, or does setting it to Easy make it deliberately play dumber? If yes, what happens when you set it to a Custom difficulty?



randallw -> RE: For the Soviet PBEMers (1/5/2011 7:32:59 AM)

The difficulty level just creates numerical bonuses or penalties; it doesn't make the computer opponent 'smarter' or 'dumber'. 




gradenko2k -> RE: For the Soviet PBEMers (1/5/2011 7:46:44 AM)

Thank you!



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