Manstein KIA in winter quarters.

Manstein KIA in winter quarters. (Full Version)

All Forums >> [New Releases from Matrix Games] >> Gary Grigsby's War in the East Series >> The War Room

Message

Senno -> Manstein KIA in winter quarters. (1/17/2011 10:57:35 PM)
Sigh. Roughly halfway between Smolensk and Moscow (X95, Y48), 12 hexes from the front. How many checks did he fail to die in the mud in '41 (I've got the newest update, so wasn't expecting any deaths so far back...)? That's quite the stray shell, lol.

Q-Ball -> RE: Manstein KIA in winter quarters. (1/17/2011 11:07:25 PM)
Historically possible, though. Plane Crash, Heart Attack, arrest by Gestapo....all of these actually took Generals off the board, not just enemy action.

PeeDeeAitch -> RE: Manstein KIA in winter quarters. (1/17/2011 11:11:15 PM)
Well, remember Schobert (11th Army commander) died in 1941 when his plane landed on a russian minefield...accidents can happen...

Senno -> RE: Manstein KIA in winter quarters. (1/18/2011 12:42:36 AM)
True enough I suppose. In a historical game I might expect the dead general to be the general that actually died in '41. More so at least than the a superior general that may be relied on in '42 and on to try to help offset this huge carpet of units bearing down on me. Not to speak of the encroaching winter, which apparently I really can't mitigate the damage from; despite planning ahead, yet I'm down one of my best generals. Perhaps I will be able to hold onto Kharkov and not need his services in '43. Quite frustrating really. Saps the fun out to read one of the best is dead.

goodwoodrw -> RE: Manstein KIA in winter quarters. (1/18/2011 12:47:08 AM)
How much of pain does a single loss of a general cause, in real game terms?

jomni -> RE: Manstein KIA in winter quarters. (1/18/2011 12:54:54 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: BASB How much of pain does a single loss of a general cause, in real game terms? You may be handicapped but it won't matter that much. A lot of good German generals can replace him. Take note that a 1 to 2 point difference in ratings does not drastically change the die roll results.

Senno -> RE: Manstein KIA in winter quarters. (1/18/2011 1:12:45 AM)
I'm unsure as yet. I'm at 11/6/41 and the Soviets are crawling towards me to counterattack. I hope not much. 2nd Panzer is all set back off the line in reserve stance ready to counter-attack. I'm just attached to the "name" I suppose... Anyway, love the game. It's a dream of a lifetime game to me. And the other games in the series are eagerly awaited.

Mynok -> RE: Manstein KIA in winter quarters. (1/18/2011 2:48:47 AM)
That's tough luck. The good news is, you can hit Load Scenario to get him back. [;)]

CarnageINC -> RE: Manstein KIA in winter quarters. (1/18/2011 11:24:25 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Mynok That's tough luck. The good news is, you can hit Load Scenario to get him back. [;)] [:D] That says it all right there Mynok [:D]

KenchiSulla -> RE: Manstein KIA in winter quarters. (1/18/2011 8:02:10 PM)
Did anyone ever make a serious count of leader (combat/accident)losses in world war 2 (say division commanders and higher ranked)? I know there is a lot of info but did anyone ever combine it somehow? Would be interesting...

Zebedee -> RE: Manstein KIA in winter quarters. (1/19/2011 3:46:05 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Cannonfodder Did anyone ever make a serious count of leader (combat/accident)losses in world war 2 (say division commanders and higher ranked)? I know there is a lot of info but did anyone ever combine it somehow? Would be interesting... German General Officer casualties: KIA/DoW: 223 Accidental Deaths: 30 Suicides: 64 Executed (by Germany during war): 20 Died in PoW camp: 128 Died of war related illness: 145 MIA: 32 Source: p.85, Folttmann and Moeller-Witten. Opfergang der Generale, Bernard & Graefe, 1959.

grofaz -> RE: Manstein KIA in winter quarters. (1/22/2011 3:06:20 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: BASB How much of pain does a single loss of a general cause, in real game terms? In Von Manstein's case historically? A great loss tantamount to loosing Zhukov. Is Manstein's experience modeled accurately in the game? I am not sure, if it is it may well could cost the Axis player the war. I would mark this as a bug for sure.

Senno -> RE: Manstein KIA in winter quarters. (1/23/2011 12:57:00 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Zebedee quote: ORIGINAL: Cannonfodder Did anyone ever make a serious count of leader (combat/accident)losses in world war 2 (say division commanders and higher ranked)? I know there is a lot of info but did anyone ever combine it somehow? Would be interesting... German General Officer casualties: KIA/DoW: 223 Accidental Deaths: 30 Suicides: 64 Executed (by Germany during war): 20 Died in PoW camp: 128 Died of war related illness: 145 MIA: 32 Source: p.85, Folttmann and Moeller-Witten. Opfergang der Generale, Bernard & Graefe, 1959. How many of these General Officer's were CO's of a unit represented in the game at the time of their death? I don't mind the death of German General Mr. Average Stats, or if I leave Manstein to be over-run or some other condition that general carelessness has caused. But well back off the lines, unit or hex not bombed, no enemy units remotely close, no partisans, not so much. I'd be just as concerned about the death of Zhukov 120 miles behind Western Front, as I play both sides vs AI, no PBEM. It's a minor quibble is all.

Mynok -> RE: Manstein KIA in winter quarters. (1/23/2011 2:40:46 AM)
All it takes is one guy with a well-aimed pistol. Just ask the Austrians in 1914. [;)]

bairdlander2 -> RE: Manstein KIA in winter quarters. (1/23/2011 4:53:33 AM)
32 division co's went mia?I find that hard to beleive.

randallw -> RE: Manstein KIA in winter quarters. (1/23/2011 5:07:49 AM)
They may have been killed but there were no surviving witnesses; that's one way to end up in the category.

heliodorus04 -> RE: Manstein KIA in winter quarters. (1/23/2011 6:13:47 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: randallw They may have been killed but there were no surviving witnesses; that's one way to end up in the category. Don't forget an Eastern Front staple: surrendering to the Soviets and never being heard from again. see: Stalingrad.

Pawsy -> RE: Manstein KIA in winter quarters. (1/23/2011 8:19:28 AM)
Remember Manstein lost his own son by 42, his ADC was killed in a plane crash (landed on a minefield), his driver killed on board the torpedo boat Manstein was using to recce Sevastopol (think 7 of the 14 man crew were killed in the attack on the boat). He, and I dont think he was an exception, had many narrow escapes as did others like Rommel. It could have easily been them.

Pawsy -> RE: Manstein KIA in winter quarters. (1/23/2011 8:31:59 AM)
Just to give you a grasp of the scale of non combat casualties The US airforce suffered 6,351 fatal aircraft accidents with over 15,500 fatalities and the loss of over 7,100 aircraft. "Fatal Army Air Forces Aviation Accidents in the United States, 1941-1945". Imagine the number of non combat related deaths for the scale of war in the east? staggering as were the combat losses. 15000 aircrew and 7100 aircraft just on the continental United States in training in 4 years.

KenchiSulla -> RE: Manstein KIA in winter quarters. (1/23/2011 12:26:26 PM)
Thank you for the figures! Interesting and much higher then I expected.

heliodorus04 -> RE: Manstein KIA in winter quarters. (1/23/2011 2:30:33 PM)
Yeah, impressive facts Starbuck. That's a damn division of men and a several naval fleets worth of aircraft!

Ketza -> RE: Manstein KIA in winter quarters. (1/23/2011 3:31:17 PM)
Maybe he met some cute mail order bride from Minsk who turned out to be a partisan.

heliodorus04 -> RE: Manstein KIA in winter quarters. (1/23/2011 3:54:42 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Ketza Maybe he met some cute mail order bride from Minsk who turned out to be a partisan. ROFL [:D]

Pawsy -> RE: Manstein KIA in winter quarters. (1/23/2011 10:19:14 PM)
Few more Germany's casualty statistics: * By D-Day, 35% of all German soldiers had been wounded at least once, 11% twice, 6% three times, 2% four times and 2% more than 4 times * The average officer slot had to be refilled 9.2 times * Germany lost 136 Generals, which averages out to be 1 dead General every 2 weeks * Germany lost 110 Division Commanders in combat * Air attacks caused 1/3 of German Generals' deaths * 84 German Generals were executed by Hitler * Germany lost 40-45% of their aircraft to accidents The sheer scale of casualties is difficult to comprehend.

Walloc -> RE: Manstein KIA in winter quarters. (1/24/2011 3:43:18 AM)
The far most majority of those 223 is divisional leader aka below game command level and there for not applical to this game engine deaths. The other fronts naturally toke their toll too. Since i did some research into this, using the actual generals in game. I'd point u too post 57 in this thread http://www.matrixgames.com/forums/tm.asp?m=2662717&mpage=2&key=? Kind regards, Rasmus

jomni -> RE: Manstein KIA in winter quarters. (1/24/2011 5:03:41 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: starbuck310 * Air attacks caused 1/3 of German Generals' deaths Interesting that you brought this up. I recently raided a German HQ and I got a message that a general got killed. :)

Page: [1]

Forum Software © ASPPlayground.NET Advanced Edition 2.4.5 ANSI

0.921875