RE: AGS Turn 1 Moves (Full Version)

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Mynok -> RE: AGS Turn 1 Moves (1/22/2011 4:01:00 AM)

And after the German turn 2. Didn't take Rovno, but it will fall next turn. Wasn't willing to risk a hasty attack by armor on infantry in a city. Note that the pocket is wide and dangerous units are pinned. Soviets ain't getting out of this one, but I'm about to try.

[image]http://i43.photobucket.com/albums/e355/Mynok1/ags2-g.png[/image]



Flaviusx -> RE: AGS Turn 1 Moves (1/22/2011 4:04:35 AM)

That looks pretty darn good.

Although I think the Sovs can do a few things on turn 1 to make life more complicated. But I'd have to get a copy of the saved turn to see if the MPs are there.



Mynok -> RE: AGS Turn 1 Moves (1/22/2011 4:04:45 AM)


Note that I did normal recon and some airfield attacks in all of this. Recon absolutely helps attacks in the rear. I will move armor or motorized up next to units they want to attack, then run recon to get their detection level to 10 or close. Makes a difference folks.




Flaviusx -> RE: AGS Turn 1 Moves (1/22/2011 4:09:05 AM)

Mynok, any chance you can post a copy of the save for your beginning of Soviet turn 1, I want to take a crack at this.

I really like this topic, btw, we should have more of these, with operational problems and solutions, this is great stuff.




Mynok -> RE: AGS Turn 1 Moves (1/22/2011 4:28:22 AM)


And here it is. I broke it. Major boo-boo by the Germans and much learned.

[image]http://i43.photobucket.com/albums/e355/Mynok1/ags3-s.png[/image]



Mynok -> RE: AGS Turn 1 Moves (1/22/2011 4:29:04 AM)

Here is what I did wrong. The German panzer unit should have ended one hex southwest of where it was. That would have kept the pocket from being broken. The two mountain units moved one hex and converted the two hexes northwest and northeast of them respectively. If the panzer unit had been in the right spot, those hexes would not have converted as they would have been in the panzer unit's ZOC. Lesson learned. Two hexes between pocketing units in big pockets...and wide control areas.

[image]http://i43.photobucket.com/albums/e355/Mynok1/problem.png[/image]



Mynok -> RE: AGS Turn 1 Moves (1/22/2011 4:33:57 AM)


It's also interesting that as soon as those mountain units moved and broke the pocket, all the Soviets became instantly unisolated and got much movement points back.

This is actually quite fascinating playing against oneself. Kinda like I used to do with my boardgames since there were no FTF opponents where I grew up.



2ndACR -> RE: AGS Turn 1 Moves (1/22/2011 4:58:10 AM)

Mynok, you said all you have to do is go 2 hexes SE of Tarnopol? What about the rail that runs along the Romanian border?

If you do not cut that, they are still in supply and not isolated. I know you cut it on turn 2, but turn 1 the Ruskies could rail alot of units out.



Mynok -> RE: AGS Turn 1 Moves (1/22/2011 5:00:57 AM)

They can't use that rail. I tried it. I cut the Tarnopol rail on turn 1. That does the trick.

Flavius, I'll be happy to post any save you want or email it to you. PM me your address.




2ndACR -> RE: AGS Turn 1 Moves (1/22/2011 5:01:45 AM)

Really, I wonder why? ZOC?



Mynok -> RE: AGS Turn 1 Moves (1/22/2011 5:03:24 AM)


That's what I suspect. Trust me, I tried railing on every Soviet I could. Nothing available.



2ndACR -> RE: AGS Turn 1 Moves (1/22/2011 5:05:48 AM)

Well, at least they will die on turn 2 then. Was just checking. That one looks good until you broke it. LOL.

Just zip your save file at end turn 1 and embed it, then we can all break it. LOL

One thing I learned doing mine, was that combat is very random, I had 1 unit take 3 hasty and a deliberate attack before it budged and then held when I popped him after the retreat.



Mynok -> RE: AGS Turn 1 Moves (1/22/2011 5:08:42 AM)


Here's my save at the end of German turn 1. Love to see what anyone can do against this. I'd also like to try countering it in the German turn 2.





2ndACR -> RE: AGS Turn 1 Moves (1/22/2011 5:09:20 AM)

Cool. Let me take a gander at it.



Mynok -> RE: AGS Turn 1 Moves (1/22/2011 5:09:58 AM)

I didn't break it on turn 1. Of course, there was no pocket, just a cut of the rail line. Turn 2 Soviets broke my pocket. But like I posted above, that could have been prevented by proper positioning of the panzer division.

What I didn't try, but suspect would fail anyway, was to rail out Soviets after I'd retaken the rail line (which I did). It should remain unrepaired however, and thus useless to the Soviets.



Klydon -> RE: AGS Turn 1 Moves (1/22/2011 5:32:35 AM)

What did you do with the Kovel Soviets? Looked like they could rail out all of the armor anyway, which is unfortunate. Pushing the Rumanians up like that on turn 2 is interesting. I would think there are some Russian units in the area that could lay the lumber on them and reopen the pocket again. Will have to play with the save when I get a chance.

Good stuff.


quote:

ORIGINAL: Flaviusx

I really like this topic, btw, we should have more of these, with operational problems and solutions, this is great stuff.



+1



Mynok -> RE: AGS Turn 1 Moves (1/22/2011 6:11:43 AM)


Here's another try. This is a different Soviet turn 1. Tried to prevent the big pocket here.

[image]http://i43.photobucket.com/albums/e355/Mynok1/AGS-S-1.png[/image]



Mynok -> RE: AGS Turn 1 Moves (1/22/2011 6:13:19 AM)


You'll notice the Kovel Soviets moved back, including putting the rifles in the swamps. you'll also notice I got a rifle into Tarnopol. This would prove interesting for the Germans.




Mynok -> RE: AGS Turn 1 Moves (1/22/2011 6:14:51 AM)


And now the German turn 2. The Soviet attempt to prevent the pocket fails, but there might be possibility of a break. It will depend on attack factors.

[image]http://i43.photobucket.com/albums/e355/Mynok1/AGS-G-2.png[/image]



Flaviusx -> RE: AGS Turn 1 Moves (1/22/2011 9:05:16 AM)

Ok, here's what I came up with, Mynok. Did this on the fly, it's pretty sloppy.

[image]local://upfiles/32811/3A40D677BFBB465DA4BFF85E5EFFBC56.jpg[/image]



Flaviusx -> RE: AGS Turn 1 Moves (1/22/2011 9:10:04 AM)

Here's the file:




cookie monster -> RE: AGS Turn 1 Moves (1/22/2011 1:15:24 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: 2ndACR

Mynok, you said all you have to do is go 2 hexes SE of Tarnopol? What about the rail that runs along the Romanian border?

If you do not cut that, they are still in supply and not isolated. I know you cut it on turn 2, but turn 1 the Ruskies could rail alot of units out.



REF Romanian border rail line


You'll notice in game any rail line directly next to an enemy will (when repaired) be green with a white line thru it.

You can't use that line for train travel or have it function as a railhead for supply purposes.

So in game you always have to take an extra hex so they enemy no longer has a ZOC on your rail line



2ndACR -> RE: AGS Turn 1 Moves (1/22/2011 5:06:10 PM)

Okay, I am using a version of the "Mynok Gambit in a PBEM. Let us see if this works. It is a variation due to some attack dice rolls that were not perfect.

I am crossing my fingers. I don't think he can break it and will be isolated on turn 2.

It is in my game with Oleg, AAR now started.

[image]local://upfiles/9971/C74071AF71A94F9E91025004BF01C59E.jpg[/image]



Mynok -> RE: AGS Turn 1 Moves (1/22/2011 6:53:31 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Flaviusx

Ok, here's what I came up with, Mynok. Did this on the fly, it's pretty sloppy.

[image]local://upfiles/32811/3A40D677BFBB465DA4BFF85E5EFFBC56.jpg[/image]


Interesting! Looks like you railed in some rifle divisions down south.



Q-Ball -> RE: AGS Turn 1 Moves (1/22/2011 7:23:31 PM)

Mynok's approach is interesting, I think I still prefer diverting 46th Pz Corps down south to support a deeper thrust.

I don't have enough experience to know how fatal this is to the German effort. In PBEMs taking Moscow is probably out of reach anyway, so the question is whether you need those Panzers to get CLOSER to Moscow, or maybe you are better off having more Panzers south of the Pripet in order to clear the Resource centers in the Ukriane.

You could also argue that the Ukraine offers better opportunities to encircle and destroy Soviet units, which has to be a top priority in the '41 campaign.



Mynok -> RE: AGS Turn 1 Moves (1/22/2011 7:52:48 PM)


There's no doubt the south is panzer country. In my GC against the AI, I did divert 2nd panzer south, but I did it through Gomel, not from the start. I needed every one of those 2nd panzer divs to get a bridgehead over the Dnepr before the Soviet line solidified. Against a human, I would need them even more.

I'm getting ready to try turn 2 against that move of Flaviusx's.



Flaviusx -> RE: AGS Turn 1 Moves (1/22/2011 8:20:29 PM)

If you can bag SW front with just one extra panzer corps, I'd say it's worth it. Although if Mynok's approach works, then that might not be necessary. The extra power from that corps basically guarantees the result and quickly.




Mynok -> RE: AGS Turn 1 Moves (1/22/2011 8:39:43 PM)


Grr....my German turn against your move is on hold while I try to figure out why my serial # doesn't work under 1.02. [:@]



Flaviusx -> RE: AGS Turn 1 Moves (1/22/2011 8:43:24 PM)

Dammit.

This might be my fault. Testers are several beta versions ahead of what's been released, there may be some compatibility problems. We just had a comprehensive update yesterday.




Mynok -> RE: AGS Turn 1 Moves (1/22/2011 8:45:13 PM)


No, I just updated to 1.02 because it fixes the Rumanian movement problem. I had been running 1.01.



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