RE: AGS Turn 1 Moves (Full Version)

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PeeDeeAitch -> RE: AGS Turn 1 Moves (2/12/2011 11:17:11 PM)

From my initial tests I still use 3 just to be sure. I hate coming up short on that attack with the IV corps.



SuluSea -> RE: AGS Turn 1 Moves (2/13/2011 8:40:03 PM)

Does anyone have the time to see if they can break this as it's almost as wide as I can get it. I'll put up a file if anyone can help.  I wasted a couple MPs (maybe 6-8) and has a few mobile forces not exactly where I want them. Thanks.


[image]http://i16.photobucket.com/albums/b11/Noopers/AGS1a.jpg[/image]




PeeDeeAitch -> RE: AGS Turn 1 Moves (2/13/2011 9:06:59 PM)

Good way to test these things is to play the soviet turn yourself and just be creative - sometimes you spot things you never would have imagined.



SuluSea -> RE: AGS Turn 1 Moves (2/13/2011 9:24:17 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: PeeDeeAitch

Good way to test these things is to play the soviet turn yourself and just be creative - sometimes you spot things you never would have imagined.


Thanks PeeDee, I should have mentioned already did that a number of times.[;)] Closest I came was one hex but that's putting Soviet tanks at risk next turn, be my guest. [:D] Atleast the way I see it now. [;)]



cookie monster -> RE: AGS Turn 1 Moves (2/13/2011 9:29:55 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: SuluSea

Does anyone have the time to see if they can break this as it's almost as wide as I can get it. I'll put up a file if anyone can help.  I wasted a couple MPs (maybe 6-8) and has a few mobile forces not exactly where I want them. Thanks.


[image]http://i16.photobucket.com/albums/b11/Noopers/AGS1a.jpg[/image]




I hate quoting a picture but here goes...

Directly north of the SS Motorized Division

Move the Western tank one hex east. They are GUARENTEED one hex movement.

Move the eastern tank or cav division to convert the other hex.

Then you SHOULD be de-isolated.

Quickest way of checking this is to run a head to head against yourself.



SuluSea -> RE: AGS Turn 1 Moves (2/13/2011 9:46:39 PM)

Just broke it,

[image]http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_yvh1z0POoHo/SPKi_ficg0I/AAAAAAAAAoU/-mFyexybDRY/s400/Wile_E_Coyote_1.jpg[/image]

Next turn I'll position the armor better and not waste the mps during movement




CharonJr -> RE: AGS Turn 1 Moves (2/14/2011 7:53:48 PM)

I have come to like this opening, it removes all but 1 mobile corps from 2. Panzergruppe, 1 assigned to 1. Panzergruppe and the other one just helping AGS. It is possible to reach Kiev by turn 3 and cross the Dnepr by turn 4 with this setup, just be sure to have lots of transports/level bombers close to drop fuel at the spearheads.

If the Soviets try a forward defense it is fairly likely that you can bag a large portion of the units down there due to the large number of mobile forces which will still have lots of MPs during turn 2 and the units that get activaetd on turn 2 will still have good MPs during turn 3.

The screenshot is from my AAR, so dont worry about some of the comments ;)



[image]local://upfiles/16421/FA8C3ACE76B042E89F33A177FDDEC727.jpg[/image]



CapAndGown -> RE: AGS Turn 1 Moves (2/15/2011 12:56:56 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: CharonJr

I have come to like this opening, it removes all but 1 mobile corps from 2. Panzergruppe, 1 assigned to 1. Panzergruppe and the other one just helping AGS. It is possible to reach Kiev by turn 3 and cross the Dnepr by turn 4 with this setup, just be sure to have lots of transports/level bombers close to drop fuel at the spearheads.

If the Soviets try a forward defense it is fairly likely that you can bag a large portion of the units down there due to the large number of mobile forces which will still have lots of MPs during turn 2 and the units that get activaetd on turn 2 will still have good MPs during turn 3.

The screenshot is from my AAR, so dont worry about some of the comments ;)



[image]local://upfiles/16421/FA8C3ACE76B042E89F33A177FDDEC727.jpg[/image]


One problem with this is at the very southern part. The isolation can be broken. That would mean on turn 2 you could not begin cleaning the Lvov pocket because the units would route out of the pocket rather than surrender. To ensure that isolation is maintained, you need two divisions down by the Prut. One needs to displace the NKVD regiment, the other needs to convert hexes after the NKVD regiment is displaced.



PeeDeeAitch -> RE: AGS Turn 1 Moves (2/15/2011 1:02:12 AM)

Call me a traditionalist, but I don't like denuding the center so much. I like the 2x2 opening move (2 panzer corps for 3rd Group, 2 corps for 2nd Group) to cut a wide swath in the center and ensure completely surrounding the Bialystok-Lida pocket.  The flexibility is still there, the 3rd corps from Guderian goes south to isolate Lvov, and the XIV corps (from the 1st Group) can join the 2nd on turn 2.

Now, Charon has shown what this strategy can do - he is carving up the south, but I am a curmudgeon. So there!



CharonJr -> RE: AGS Turn 1 Moves (2/15/2011 1:16:59 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: cap_and_gown

One problem with this is at the very southern part. The isolation can be broken. That would mean on turn 2 you could not begin cleaning the Lvov pocket because the units would route out of the pocket rather than surrender. To ensure that isolation is maintained, you need two divisions down by the Prut. One needs to displace the NKVD regiment, the other needs to convert hexes after the NKVD regiment is displaced.


Hmm exactly where in the very south? With the ZOCs down there I can't see the Soviets opening that pocket, unless they have a higher chance to enter a ZOC when it is not their first move than what I have experienced so far.



Mynok -> RE: AGS Turn 1 Moves (2/15/2011 1:52:20 AM)


Right on the border: the SEC moves east 1 hex. The rifle division moves west one hex. Pocket broken.



randallw -> RE: AGS Turn 1 Moves (2/15/2011 2:05:55 AM)

I would probably have to reread the manual on who gets control of a hex when it would be disputed like that.



PeeDeeAitch -> RE: AGS Turn 1 Moves (2/15/2011 2:19:48 AM)

Doesn't that middle hex (soviet controlled in the pic) become axis controlled at the start of the soviet turn since there is not soviet zoc in it - in effect like the large area of the Lvov pocket that switch to axis control at the start of the soviet turn?

This makes it harder to breach.



SuluSea -> RE: AGS Turn 1 Moves (2/15/2011 4:27:01 AM)

I'm real happy with the latest  and last south plan, I spent the whole evening trying to break it and came 2 hexes short everytime, not saying an expert couldn't do it however. [:)] FWIW those tanks on the edges that look threatening have been knocked around pretty good already.

[image]http://i16.photobucket.com/albums/b11/Noopers/ags3.jpg[/image]




CharonJr -> RE: AGS Turn 1 Moves (2/15/2011 10:11:25 AM)

Yes, the middle hex will change to my control, the armor has a ZOC there and the Soviets do not ;)



Phenix -> RE: AGS Turn 1 Moves (2/15/2011 10:43:36 PM)

Hi Charon, with what did you dislodge the row of soviet defenders infront of Rovno?, there is usally some Soviet armour and i think a mech, cant seem to do both (the pocket and clear these 5 Rovno hexes)




CharonJr -> RE: AGS Turn 1 Moves (2/15/2011 10:52:32 PM)

Should have been AGC armor IIRC.



Phenix -> RE: AGS Turn 1 Moves (2/15/2011 10:59:20 PM)

Stange, i get "defence held" when i attack them with armor.



carnifex -> RE: AGS Turn 1 Moves (3/2/2011 6:51:10 PM)

This is my AGS pocket. It activates the southern front, doesn't use any AGC assets, doesn't require splitting divisions, and as far as I can tell, is bombproof. It does result in a smaller pocket than the ones shown above, but I don't want to strip AGC at all.

Please note that I only moved the pocketing units in that screenshot - I didn't move any other units or carry out any other attacks.

[image]http://i.imgur.com/YQwrK.jpg[/image]



sitito -> RE: AGS Turn 1 Moves (3/3/2011 3:03:41 PM)

Another variant in the south:


[image]http://img511.imageshack.us/img511/2937/aperturasur.jpg[/image]


[image]http://img815.imageshack.us/img815/2223/sudmitte.jpg[/image]



LiquidSky -> RE: AGS Turn 1 Moves (3/3/2011 5:45:49 PM)



You left your RR engineer unprotected.



sitito -> RE: AGS Turn 1 Moves (3/3/2011 6:05:19 PM)

From where it can be attacked?? It has sure ZOC



821Bobo -> RE: AGS Turn 1 Moves (3/3/2011 6:26:58 PM)

If it is from the game vs. me, I didnt see them



cookie monster -> RE: AGS Turn 1 Moves (3/3/2011 7:59:53 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: sitito

From where it can be attacked?? It has sure ZOC


The Soviet unit only needs to move next to it. A one hex move is always possible for only one selected unit.

Zero CV units auto displace when an enemy moves adjacent.



Mynok -> RE: AGS Turn 1 Moves (3/3/2011 8:22:49 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: sitito

From where it can be attacked?? It has sure ZOC


I believe it will displace just like an HQ if an enemy unit moves adjacent.

EDIT: I see someone beat me to it.[8D]



alfonso -> RE: AGS Turn 1 Moves (3/3/2011 8:26:11 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: carnifex

This is my AGS pocket. It activates the southern front, doesn't use any AGC assets, doesn't require splitting divisions, and as far as I can tell, is bombproof. It does result in a smaller pocket than the ones shown above, but I don't want to strip AGC at all.

Please note that I only moved the pocketing units in that screenshot - I didn't move any other units or carry out any other attacks.




When you say bombproof, do you mean the Soviet cannot reconnect?



sitito -> RE: AGS Turn 1 Moves (3/3/2011 8:37:01 PM)

quote:

If it is from the game vs. me, I didnt see them


yes

quote:

The Soviet unit only needs to move next to it. A one hex move is always possible for only one selected unit.

Zero CV units auto displace when an enemy moves adjacent.


I Know, but I thought any isolated unit could move to the adjacent hex ... i was lucky



cookie monster -> RE: AGS Turn 1 Moves (3/3/2011 8:46:01 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: sitito

Another variant in the south:


[image]http://img511.imageshack.us/img511/2937/aperturasur.jpg[/image]



Is that a tank division split up into regiments at Tarnapol?

The Soviets have some powerful Mech/Tank Divisions in the South. They would probably smack a regiment,cos its an easy target. They could also surround your regiments to give ZOC penalties. You would have to move the regiments then rearwards to recombine, spending some of your precious movement points.

I cant tell easily if they are regiments cos of Imageshacks smaller image size.



821Bobo -> RE: AGS Turn 1 Moves (3/3/2011 8:57:11 PM)

quote:

Is that a tank division split up into regiments at Tarnapol? The Soviets have some powerful Mech/Tank Divisions in the South. They would probably smack a regiment,cos its an easy target. They could also surround your regiments to give ZOC penalties. You would have to move the regiments then rearwards to recombine, spending some of your precious movement points. I cant tell easily if they are regiments cos of Imageshacks smaller image size.


I made contact with the 2 divisions on Romanian border. And yes they are regiments but I had not enough MP to attack or they held, cannot remember(its a week ago).



carnifex -> RE: AGS Turn 1 Moves (3/4/2011 4:33:03 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: alfonso

When you say bombproof, do you mean the Soviet cannot reconnect?


Yes, I tried to get the Soviets to break the pocket maybe a dozen times to account for the variable movement allowances and they just can't get through the ZOC. The key is to have one armor unit with enough movement to reach that rail line west of Stanislav.



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