RE: Utter madness... if you didn't believe something was wrong before (Full Version)

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TulliusDetritus -> RE: Utter madness... if you didn't believe something was wrong before (1/29/2011 12:51:38 AM)

Comarade P, I think you got it wrong. Now people were giving examples that prove the unexpected may happen. A reply to someone you might know, by the way, so no need of names [;)]

One of those examples was the Samar combat (but as I have said, it was a bad example)...

And then people just continued, not necessarily respecting the thread. But the question is: how many threads do really respect the topic? It always happens. at least I have seen this thing since 2004. It's what makes these forums (Matrix forums) different and highly entertaining [8D]

Yes, Mynok, some people in the WitP forum think we are traitors or something worse... [:D]



ComradeP -> RE: Utter madness... if you didn't believe something was wrong before (1/29/2011 12:56:53 AM)

Threads going OT within reasonable limits is not much of a problem, I was just surprised at the leap that was taken from Eastern Front combat to naval combat. Especially considering that WitE doesn't have naval combat of any kind (maybe that's what attracts some WitP:AE'ers: they think they have less to worry about now that they don't have to spend hours plotting convoys and praying KB doesn't show up;)).



TulliusDetritus -> RE: Utter madness... if you didn't believe something was wrong before (1/29/2011 1:05:05 AM)

Wrong answer (I can tell because I know these people). We are here because WitE IS the other BIG boy in the neighbourhood [:)]

We have been waiting for this game since the days of WIR. I personally consider both WitP and WitE on the same league. The two games I have always wanted. And now they are finally a reality. The paradise...

The "convoys", I guess you refer to the logistics is an amazing part of that other great game (WitP) [8D] It's not boring at all, by the way, it's incredibly exciting and rewarding [8D]

EDITED: I almost forgot, when WitE was released a WitE Thread was created in the WitP forum. A thread which is still active (since 8 or 9 december). No one said "OT, this is WitP forum" [:)]



PMCN -> RE: Utter madness... if you didn't believe something was wrong before (1/29/2011 8:08:26 AM)

Mea Cupia Maxima for mentioning Leyte gulf.

The real point is that there were in WW2 results that if reproduced in a game would result in much wailing and gnashing of teeth by the players. Midway just happens to be the most extreme example of such. If I had my books I would have pulled up examples from the eastern front but my memory while good is not that good. I do recall that the German advance stalled at Tula due to the defenders stuborn unwillingness to run away. And even the encirclement at Smolensk was a nightmare, since the units on the edge were hit continously by parts of russian units attempting to break free.

I must admit I also have been waiting this game since playing...I'm not sure of the name anymore but the Atari game that was the precurser to WIR.



DivePac88 -> RE: Utter madness... if you didn't believe something was wrong before (1/29/2011 9:49:19 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: ComradeP

'maybe that's what attracts some WitP:AE'ers: they think they have less to worry about now that they don't have to spend hours plotting convoys and praying KB doesn't show up'.


Don't have to worry about the 1st Carrier Striking Force (KB) showing-up mate, as that force belongs to me!



EDIT; I think that what attracts us WitP:AE brothers is that in WitE we have another operational wargame, that is of the same high standard, and the complexity of AE.



stuman -> RE: Utter madness... if you didn't believe something was wrong before (1/29/2011 11:23:06 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Shellshock


quote:

ORIGINAL: Paul McNeely
Could not possibly happen in the real world...much like it surely can't be possible to loose 4 fleet carriers off some dinky island midway across the pacific to an utterly uncoordinated (and botched) attempt at launching an air strike from 3 dispersed CVBGs...nah if that happened clearly the game is borked and the AI is cheating.


Or cite a less famous example, that a force of 4 battleships, 8 cruisers, and 11 destroyers in a daylight surface engagement eventually retreated in the face of 6 puny escort carriers, 3 destroyers and 4 escort destroyers as happened in the battle off Samar. World War II was totally borked.Since these players can't rant on their generals for their supposed failures as Hitler did, I suppose they have to rant on the system.



I agree, things in that damn war often went awry.



ComradeP -> RE: Utter madness... if you didn't believe something was wrong before (1/29/2011 12:19:47 PM)

quote:

No one said "OT, this is WitP forum"


Well, that entire thread was dedicated to it, like you said. This thread is dedicated to...utter madness.

I'm still waiting for someone to post "Cthulhu fhtagn"



stuman -> RE: Utter madness... if you didn't believe something was wrong before (1/29/2011 12:55:01 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: ComradeP

quote:

No one said "OT, this is WitP forum"


Well, that entire thread was dedicated to it, like you said. This thread is dedicated to...utter madness.

I'm still waiting for someone to post "Cthulhu fhtagn"



You had better be careful throwing that name around !



TulliusDetritus -> RE: Utter madness... if you didn't believe something was wrong before (1/29/2011 1:10:44 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: ComradeP

I'm still waiting for someone to post "Cthulhu fhtagn"


And I'm still waiting for a Sparta Kick [8D] This is madness!!



JeffroK -> RE: Utter madness... if you didn't believe something was wrong before (1/29/2011 1:34:57 PM)

Thoroughly entertaining, we don't have blues like this in WITP-AE, very often anyway[:D]




Terminus -> RE: Utter madness... if you didn't believe something was wrong before (1/29/2011 1:46:56 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: TulliusDetritus


quote:

ORIGINAL: ComradeP

I'm still waiting for someone to post "Cthulhu fhtagn"


And I'm still waiting for a Sparta Kick [8D] This is madness!!


Iä! Iä! Shub-Niggurath!



TulliusDetritus -> RE: Utter madness... if you didn't believe something was wrong before (1/29/2011 6:00:42 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: JeffK

Thoroughly entertaining, we don't have blues like this in WITP-AE, very often anyway[:D]




To be honest, you will HARDLY see people insulting in the WitP forum. Heated debates, hell yes!! But insults (I have already been insulted twice here)... [:'(] The question is: should I care? [:D]



Mynok -> RE: Utter madness... if you didn't believe something was wrong before (1/29/2011 7:48:24 PM)


We insulted the problem children away already in the WitpAE forum. [8D]



JeffroK -> RE: Utter madness... if you didn't believe something was wrong before (1/29/2011 10:47:25 PM)

If they had a variable where japan could attack Soviet East Asia people would be more ready to be interested in WITP-AE.

I am always amused in posters who complain about a single combat result, how many 100's of thousands of combat results are there in a game.

Back in the day when board games ruled, I had so many games hinge on 1 battle, one roll of the dice

What is lacking in the WITE forum, is someone who sits down and tests the circumstances 30-50 times to see just what the expected result is. As mentioned, was this a case of rolling a pair of ones or the result that you will get every time?

Plus I'm sure the treasure at Matrix would love the interest being shown by the AE'ers, they cant rely on East Front Grognards alone and many interested in Military History look at all theatres. (Is 27th Panzer (Penal) Rgt shown in the game??)



raizer -> RE: Utter madness... if you didn't believe something was wrong before (1/30/2011 12:51:57 AM)

this thread:

[image]local://upfiles/36764/AE3F0AF7C74548C794B14A9B74320C3A.jpg[/image]



Mynok -> RE: Utter madness... if you didn't believe something was wrong before (1/30/2011 1:52:33 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: JeffK
What is lacking in the WITE forum, is someone who sits down and tests the circumstances 30-50 times to see just what the expected result is. As mentioned, was this a case of rolling a pair of ones or the result that you will get every time?

Plus I'm sure the treasure at Matrix would love the interest being shown by the AE'ers, they cant rely on East Front Grognards alone and many interested in Military History look at all theatres. (Is 27th Panzer (Penal) Rgt shown in the game??)



Very true. Very true. I hereby promise to exert maximum effort in trying to figure out the best way to make those uncontrollable Army Group const bns do what I want them to do. 50 times. Woof!
[:D]



JeffroK -> RE: Utter madness... if you didn't believe something was wrong before (1/30/2011 1:56:25 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Mynok


quote:

ORIGINAL: JeffK
What is lacking in the WITE forum, is someone who sits down and tests the circumstances 30-50 times to see just what the expected result is. As mentioned, was this a case of rolling a pair of ones or the result that you will get every time?

Plus I'm sure the treasure at Matrix would love the interest being shown by the AE'ers, they cant rely on East Front Grognards alone and many interested in Military History look at all theatres. (Is 27th Panzer (Penal) Rgt shown in the game??)



Very true. Very true. I hereby promise to exert maximum effort in trying to figure out the best way to make those uncontrollable Army Group const bns do what I want them to do. 50 times. Woof!
[:D]


It would probably be of more importance than the original complaint based on one battle only, can you build airbases and ports and forts here as well!!!



Mynok -> RE: Utter madness... if you didn't believe something was wrong before (1/30/2011 1:58:17 AM)


It's a game...importance may be overstating things a bit. [;)]

But it will be fun!



jjdenver -> RE: Utter madness... if you didn't believe something was wrong before (1/31/2011 1:46:46 AM)

The problem with this whole thread is that (while interesting) it is based on a single combat result. We have no idea if this result is average for this situation, or at one end of a bell curve. If it's average then I think the loss ratio is improper. Much ado is made on the thread about some large calibre Soviet howitzers but the Germans had more men, more tubes, more tanks, more training, more experience, more morale, more mobility. Sure they'd take some losses but the ratio of German to Soviet losses seems askew if this is an avg combat result. But we don't know if it's an avg result.



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