Fleet Limit, System Defense, and Efficiency (Full Version)

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Noble713 -> Fleet Limit, System Defense, and Efficiency (2/4/2011 5:32:54 PM)

I tend to run my navy with the vast majority of it as independent ships on AI control. I'm starting to notice that while this reduces micromanagement it is woefully inefficient. I occasionally see cruisers flying between systems on escort missions, and most of my navy burning up fuel as they are constantly in motion. Also, despite having a comparatively gigantic force of defense ships (escorts/frigates/destroyers), when attacked I find the enemy almost always has local superiority in any system, even with a Strike Force. Why? Because my ships are all busy flying around to who-knows-where. And when my systems DO get attacked, I have no clear idea of what military assets I have there because I can only assign so many fleets, and the priority goes to big offensive ones.

Here's how I propose to solve these issues:

1. The AI should assign an escort mission only for construction ships (big, expensive, and defenseless), or limit the mission to "Escort"-classed vessels. No more destroyers following around comparatively-worthless mining ships while my systems get laid to waste by pirates.

2. Eliminate the 10-fleet limit. I want to be able to task-organize System Defense Fleets for each system, so I can clearly see in the Fleet Management window how strongly each of my systems is defended, and I can easily assign new construction to these Defenses as I see fit. (Build Order screen for new ships, then view Military Ships and change their fleet assignment while they are still under construction.)

3. If you put these defense fleets in the gravity well of a planet with an "Engage System Targets" stance, they will essentially serve as a Quick Reaction Force. By sitting around on standby, they significantly reduce fuel consumption while always being available to provide local space superiority during an incursion.

4. Cutting the number of ships flying around should also help game performance.



Data -> RE: Fleet Limit, System Defense, and Efficiency (2/4/2011 6:52:27 PM)

1. maybe an option for us to designate what is Escort"-classed vessels

2. actually you can workaround this by creating fleets manually, outside the fleet screen

3 have not tested this but aside from the gravity well part can't you do this already? ship on manual stopped and with "Engage System Targets" stance will not attack targets that get in it's sensor range? I think they will



Shark7 -> RE: Fleet Limit, System Defense, and Efficiency (2/4/2011 7:36:25 PM)

I have found that the best thing to do is to form a decent size fleet and leave it on manual control at any system that is important (IE a Home Fleet), so that it only responds to stuff that threatens the planet it is assigned to.



Data -> RE: Fleet Limit, System Defense, and Efficiency (2/4/2011 8:09:11 PM)

how big that fleet usually gets in your case, Shark? and with how many of them you end up in late game?



Shark7 -> RE: Fleet Limit, System Defense, and Efficiency (2/4/2011 8:13:28 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Data

how big that fleet usually gets in your case, Shark? and with how many of them you end up in late game?


8-12 ships if its just for defense, usually consists of a Capital ship, 2-4 cruisers and the rest in destroyers



Data -> RE: Fleet Limit, System Defense, and Efficiency (2/4/2011 9:10:37 PM)

thanks shark, pretty souped up fleet....i usually used smaller numbers. In case of a serios undetected attack I could thin down the enemy ships until a regional fleet could intercept them.
Do you ever use static defenses as well? for a strategic location do you use multiple starbases besides this defense fleet?



Noble713 -> RE: Fleet Limit, System Defense, and Efficiency (2/4/2011 11:42:37 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Data

1. maybe an option for us to designate what is Escort"-classed vessels


Do mean users defining exactly what missions Escort/Frigate/Cruiser/Capital Ship undertake? I agree, that would be a very powerful addition.

quote:


2. actually you can workaround this by creating fleets manually, outside the fleet screen


Had no idea about that! Thanks. That'll help a bunch.

quote:


3 have not tested this but aside from the gravity well part can't you do this already? ship on manual stopped and with "Engage System Targets" stance will not attack targets that get in it's sensor range? I think they will


The grav well part wasn't mandatory, just where I typically leave them: floating next to my colonies so they don't have to jump there, which would be a delayed response, and I certainly don't want that when a major fleet hits a colony.



Kull -> RE: Fleet Limit, System Defense, and Efficiency (2/6/2011 3:41:11 PM)

I'm playing with the story-line on, in a max sized universe with 12 other races, and it's now well into the mid-game phase. I have a very rich empire and can pay the maintenance costs on all the capital ships and cruisers I want, so that factors in as well. For efficiencies sake, I've got all 20 fleets in use, and they fall into these categories:

1) Two Strike Fleets of 8-10 Capital ships and Cruisers (roughly 50-50 mix) - These go anyplace there's a large concentration of enemy ships and wipe them out.
2) Two Major Invasion Fleets with 3-5 Destroyers, 2-3 Cruisers, and 4-6 Troop Carrriers (fully loaded with relatively cheap clones) - For Invasion of Homeworld or multi-planet systems
3) Two Escort Fleets with 4-5 Capital Ships - To escort the above Invasion fleets and knock out planetary defenses
4) Five Small Invasion Fleets with 1-2 Cruisers, 2 Destroyers, and 1-2 Troop Carriers - These are used to quickly pick off the smaller, less well defended systems
5) Five Roving Defender Fleets with 2-3 Capital ships and/or Cruisers - I have a large, sprawling empire, so these are positioned in locations where at least one fleet can quickly respond to an enemy (or pirate) attack on a nearby system.
6) Two Distant Defender Fleets of 4-6 Capital ships and Cruisers - Positioned at important planets located FAR from the center of my empire.
7) Two "Mob Fleets" of varied composition, but usualy 20-40 ships in size, which sit near the World Destroyer and other abandoned ship piles while my Repair ships are working - Ensures all repaired ships become mine, no matter who's working there.

And even with that, I still leave at least one Cruiser parked next to important planets or in areas subject to frequent pirate attack. All frigates and escorts (and some destroyers) are on AI control and frankly I pay no attention to them.



map -> RE: Fleet Limit, System Defense, and Efficiency (2/6/2011 3:50:27 PM)

I find Pirates to be a real annoying management PITA after a while, but I don't want to play without them. I wish there was a way to put exploration ships on a search for pirate base missions after a sector has been explored initially. Right now I'm sending exploration ships to individual planets.



Data -> RE: Fleet Limit, System Defense, and Efficiency (2/6/2011 3:56:19 PM)

the idea is sound and very good, I wonder how you'd program the AI to do this...perhaps map the pirate routes, time between attacks and determine a general radius from this in which to search.
Btw, pirate bases can be anywhere not just near planets...they can be near gas giants, in asteroid belts etc.



Kull -> RE: Fleet Limit, System Defense, and Efficiency (2/6/2011 4:12:15 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: map

I find Pirates to be a real annoying management PITA after a while, but I don't want to play without them. I wish there was a way to put exploration ships on a search for pirate base missions after a sector has been explored initially. Right now I'm sending exploration ships to individual planets.


Monitoring stations solve most of this. Set them up on your "edge worlds" and when you have enough of them, eventually you can see Pirate Bases pop-up in a gas cloud someplace and take them out before they can even launch an attack. This completely eliminates the problem of pirate bases popping up in the middle of your empire. And even in cases where pirates appear beyond the spotting ability of your monitoring stations, you can still individual ships approaching your systems, mark the axis of advance, and draw a straight line back to some gas cloud or uninhabited planetary system (and thus determine the base location).



Data -> RE: Fleet Limit, System Defense, and Efficiency (2/6/2011 4:16:15 PM)

yeah, late game I don't even use monitoring stations but scouts with LRS...kinda awacs in space. But late game pirates are not an issue anymore so I suspect his concearn was for the begining of the game when a monitoring station can take it's tow on the economy - having this ability for explorers will help then.



map -> RE: Fleet Limit, System Defense, and Efficiency (2/6/2011 7:00:02 PM)

monitoring stations? I'm embarrassed to say that i had forgotten about them. I think I'm at early midgame. All the sectors are explored so there is no longer the have ship explore sector such and such. I've been improving my scanners but maybe not enough.



Shark7 -> RE: Fleet Limit, System Defense, and Efficiency (2/6/2011 7:14:44 PM)

Monitoring stations:

I have found a good use for them that isn't gamey.

Design the station with a 2 gas extractors, 20 cargo bays, 8 docking bays and 1 each of the research labs. Build at planets with research bonuses and fuel gases to get those benefits, build at gas clouds for sensor coverage and refueling bases in 'open' areas.

Since the empire level pays the maintenance on them, you aren't gaming the system to get all the benefit you can out of a gas giant.

Also, you can build monitoring stations anywhere, even if there are other bases already at the planet (IE a resort base).



Data -> RE: Fleet Limit, System Defense, and Efficiency (2/6/2011 8:26:38 PM)

lol
Shark, I think we should rename you Exploit7....you stick anything on everything and don't even pay the bill [:D]



J HG T -> RE: Fleet Limit, System Defense, and Efficiency (2/6/2011 8:47:09 PM)

Nice one Shark7! I'll definetly be trying that out in my current game.



Shark7 -> RE: Fleet Limit, System Defense, and Efficiency (2/7/2011 2:37:58 AM)

I'm just acting like a real government...take all the benefits, and stick the public sector with the bill. [;)]



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