RE: Accelerating plane research (Full Version)

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Hanzberger -> RE: Accelerating plane research (2/25/2011 9:07:13 PM)

Where are you at in your game Numdydar?




Hanzberger -> RE: Accelerating plane research (2/25/2011 9:10:21 PM)

Where are you at in your game, is this a double post? sry if it is Numdydar

Chickenboy didn't answer, he is quite smart.




Numdydar -> RE: Accelerating plane research (2/25/2011 9:59:28 PM)

9/42 right now.

Also, one interesting thing has occured which mades the question of R&D acceleration less understood (at least by me, lol).

At some point I switched over an engine R&D factory to reserch the Toko Rocket which has an original availability date of 12/45. I think the switch was sometime in 1/42 or so. The factory is 'producing' 5/month.

Lo and behold on 9/12/42 I am told the availibility has been sped up to now 11/45 (whoopee lol). So in 8 months (1/42 - 9/42) I should have 'made around 40 of the suckers (8 months x 5/month). This of course is well below the supposed magical 100 you need before this can happen.

Is this where engine factories have different coding than airframe ones? Or is the whole system so screwed up that no one really knows what the hell is going on? No wonder it is sooo much harder to play as the Japanese.

As a counter point to this I am building 50/month of an airframe (with 0 reparing) and have not gotten a single months advance yet (it's under 8 months away from being historically available so this is NOT a 44 or later plane). So a factory building 5 engines can advance a month with 40 or less built, but an airframe that has built 150 can't? Does this make any sense?

If anyone can help me out here it sure would be appricated [:)]




Hanzberger -> RE: Accelerating plane research (2/26/2011 2:45:23 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Numdydar


Lo and behold on 9/12/42 I am told the availibility has been sped up to now 11/45 (whoopee lol). So in 8 months (1/42 - 9/42) I should have 'made around 40 of the suckers (8 months x 5/month). This of course is well below the supposed magical 100 you need before this can happen.



I'm curious as how you were 'told'. In game msg or tracker or just following it yourself?




PaxMondo -> RE: Accelerating plane research (2/26/2011 3:06:46 AM)

engines research much easier and faster in my experience compared to air frames.




Chickenboy -> RE: Accelerating plane research (2/26/2011 4:25:41 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Hanzberger


quote:

ORIGINAL: Numdydar


Lo and behold on 9/12/42 I am told the availibility has been sped up to now 11/45 (whoopee lol). So in 8 months (1/42 - 9/42) I should have 'made around 40 of the suckers (8 months x 5/month). This of course is well below the supposed magical 100 you need before this can happen.



I'm curious as how you were 'told'. In game msg or tracker or just following it yourself?

I use OPS report to keep tabs on the progress. You'll see periodic notices for when the research has accelerated by a month.




Numdydar -> RE: Accelerating plane research (2/26/2011 6:34:29 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Hanzberger
I'm curious as how you were 'told'. In game msg or tracker or just following it yourself?



It will be listed in the ops report in game and the current version of Tracket (1.7.1) also has it listed in the Alert section




BigBadWolf -> RE: Accelerating plane research (2/26/2011 12:45:18 PM)

AFAIK, it works different with engines. I got "accelerating Aichi engine" just 9 days into my campaign, in December 1941. Plus, they repair like normal factories, one point per day.

But this
quote:

As a counter point to this I am building 50/month of an airframe (with 0 reparing) and have not gotten a single months advance yet (it's under 8 months away from being historically available so this is NOT a 44 or later plane). So a factory building 5 engines can advance a month with 40 or less built, but an airframe that has built 150 can't? Does this make any sense?
is disturbing.




Hanzberger -> RE: Accelerating plane research (2/26/2011 2:53:35 PM)

So if you get a msg saying that your engine upgraded will it start bldg a pool? And if so then do you shut if off until the airframe comes available?




Numdydar -> RE: Accelerating plane research (2/26/2011 5:09:44 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Hanzberger

So if you get a msg saying that your engine upgraded will it start bldg a pool? And if so then do you shut if off until the airframe comes available?


Factories that are R&D do not 'build' anything, they just put points towards acceleration of their availability. Every 100 points (supposedly) will allow an engine or airframe availability to 'speed up' by a month. In my example earlier, Toko Rocket's original availability was 12/45 and due to acceleration is now 11/45. Howerver, because it is still a looong way off from 11/45 in my game [:D], no actual production will occur. Just points added to the whatever number is needed to be reached in order to accelerate the engine again. Again, obviouly NOT 100.

As the game goes on the availability of engines and airframes will eventually match up with the actual game date. Once that occurs THEN the airframes and engines factories will automaticly switch from R&D to production (with no damage or repair needed). Obviously over the course of the game, the number of R&D factories will become smaller while the number of production factories will increase. If you want keep to this automatic switch from happening, then you need to toggle the 'upgrade/keep' selection in the industary screen for those factories that you do NOT want switched.

The 'upgrade' (the default) will automaticly switch a R&D factory to production for R&D factories. The 'upgrade' on production factories will automaticly switch production from whatever it is currently producing to the airframe that just became available IF the old factory is prodcing the outmodeled airframe matches the new airframe. If a R&D factory has a new airframe that does not match anything currently being built, such as the Helen Ia, then the R&D factories researching that airframe, will just switch to production and no existing production will be affected.

As an example, a Helen Ia factory with the 'upgrade' on will automaticly be switched to producing Helen IIa's once the Helen IIa's become available. Also all the R&D factories that were researching Helen IIa's now become production factories if the 'upgrade' for them is on. IMPOTRANT: Once a factory has switched from R&D to production it can NEVER be switched back to R&D.

By selecting the 'keep' function this automatic process does NOT take effect. Using the example above, if 'keep' was selected for both the Helen production and R&D, the Helen IIa R&D factories could be switched to a different airframe to research (with the normal damage and repair process). The old Helen Ia production factories would continue to produce Helen Ia's until the player manually converted them. Again if the factory that is producing the outdated airframe is manually converted to the you STILL get the 'free' conversion with no damage or repair needed.

By using the 'upgrade/keep' toggle you can fine tune how you want to use your production and R&D factories. Want more production and less R&D leave the 'upgrade' on. Want to keep producing the old airframe for a while to build up the replacement pool, turn on 'keep' so they will not automaticly convert. Given the absolutely amazing number of craptastic planes the Japanese can research and produce, this is important so that you can concentrate your research and production the way you want it to be.

So once the availability and the R&D date match (it's always the 1st of the month btw) the switch will take place. So if it is 9/31 and I get a new plane type on 10/1, the new plane production and the factory switches will automaticly take place on the 10/1 turn. The same is true for engines. So make sure you have the 'upgrade/keep' toggle where you want them for the new plane type BEFORE you run the turn. Once the dates match, actual production can begin of that plane or engine. Only at this time does the available pool start to build up.

In my game I got the ACH Ha-60 in 3/42. The original availablity was 9/42 (this of course further illistrates the issues between airframe and engine R&D. To keep beating a dead hourse, In 4 months I accelerated an engine by 6 months yet not a single airframe by 9/42 has been accelerated a single month [sm=00000003.gif]). To date (9/42) I have ZERO use for this engine. So I let the production run until I had a good number in the pool and then turned off the factories. Once nice thing about the game is we do not have to worry about inventory spoilage lol. So it is a good idea for the Japanese to build up large numbers of engines in the early years so that once their factories start getting bombed and aquiring resources/fuel/oil is more difficult they can turn off the enginge factories and concentrat on building airframes with are vastly more important by then.

See how much fun Japanese production can be [sm=00000023.gif]

While a long winded answer to a short question [:)], I wanted to give the complete picture. If anyone spots anything I have incorrect or misstated, please let me know because I am still learning myself.




pacificbetta -> RE: Accelerating plane research (2/27/2011 12:26:23 AM)

quote:

In my game I got the ACH Ha-60 in 3/42. The original availablity was 9/42 (this of course further illistrates the issues between airframe and engine R&D. To keep beating a dead hourse, In 4 months I accelerated an engine by 6 months yet not a single airframe by 9/42 has been accelerated a single month ).


The key diffference is that the engine R&D factories started off repaired and hence fully functional as compared to the aircraft factories. In fact, in scenario 1, I think only a few aircraft R&D factories start off repaired, the most notable one being Helen Ia, however it is only size 14 (iirc) as compared to a huge number of ready A Ha-60.

Btw, there is nothing wrong with having the engines being available before the plane, just schedule the production of the engines earlier, you need lesser factories to "support" the planned aircraft production, having built a stockpile before the aircraft production draws down on them.




Numdydar -> RE: Accelerating plane research (2/27/2011 1:18:14 AM)

Actually you have to have the engines before plane production can begin. Otherwise you will have all these airframes sitting around with these giant holes in them [:D] jk.

Actually no airfrmes can be built at all without the engines they need being available. Maybe that is why engine R&D is so much faster.

This brings up another question. Do you have to have the engine being produced before any research on the airframe can be done? So you have to have ACH Ha-60s being produced before any research for Judy's take place? Anyone know for sure?





Nomad -> RE: Accelerating plane research (2/27/2011 2:26:32 AM)

Keep one thing in mind.

13.5 AIRCRAFT RESEARCH
Aircraft or Engines with a production capacity that are not yet available will be researched. This
may move up the availability of the new aircraft or engine. Whenever a plane/engine would
have been produced, the new aircraft or engine will gain 1 development point. For every 100
development points the availability of the aircraft or engine may be moved up one month.

Note the term may. No guarantee about advancements.




Numdydar -> RE: Accelerating plane research (2/27/2011 4:14:21 AM)

Thnaks for the clarification.

Love your sig block btw [:)]




Hanzberger -> RE: Accelerating plane research (2/27/2011 4:14:53 PM)

I understand Nomad, but any idea why they (devs) made it this way. (MAY I know your quite active in the forums so you may have heard something.
I just think for (gameplay) reasons, the IJF's need all the help we can get and it still leaves it up to the individual to decide.
I am currently still in 12/41 and learning a whole lot.




Nomad -> RE: Accelerating plane research (2/27/2011 5:03:15 PM)

I really don't know why, but it has been like that since the original WitP. It is not new for AE. If you look at most things in this game, there are few that are not modified by some random die roll that is usually based on one or more factors. I am sure one of the factors for aircraft R&D advancements is the difference in the current game date and the current scheduled availability date. There could be more, and maybe if you have 100 but less than 200 this month, next month you might get an extra multiplier, I don't know. I do know that GG was very fond of random numbers.




Hanzberger -> RE: Accelerating plane research (2/28/2011 1:02:26 PM)

Ok, yea first time playing the IJ side. I can understand having some random(ness), but you should be able to plan also. Def no two games alike here. [:D]




offenseman -> RE: Accelerating plane research (2/28/2011 8:23:31 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Numdydar

Factories that are R&D do not 'build' anything, they just put points towards acceleration of their availability. Every 100 points (supposedly) will allow an engine or airframe availability to 'speed up' by a month. In my example earlier, Toko Rocket's original availability was 12/45 and due to acceleration is now 11/45. Howerver, because it is still a looong way off from 11/45 in my game [:D], no actual production will occur. Just points added to the whatever number is needed to be reached in order to accelerate the engine again. Again, obviouly NOT 100.

I believe that producing 100 r&d aircraft that advancing the date by a month is not automatic. In one of my PBEMs I had 110 of a type producing for over a month and the type did not advance.

So once the availability and the R&D date match (it's always the 1st of the month btw) the switch will take place. So if it is 9/31 and I get a new plane type on 10/1, the new plane production and the factory switches will automaticly take place on the 10/1 turn. The same is true for engines. So make sure you have the 'upgrade/keep' toggle where you want them for the new plane type BEFORE you run the turn. Once the dates match, actual production can begin of that plane or engine. Only at this time does the available pool start to build up.

Automatic conversion is not automatically on the first of the month. In one of my PBEMs, I had two bases building G3M2s and when 5/42 came and they would convert to G3M3, they did not. One converted on the 4th and the other converted on the 10th of May. I always had them set to upgrade so I assume that there is a die roll that needs to be checked to see if the factory upgrades.





Numdydar -> RE: Accelerating plane research (3/1/2011 1:51:21 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: offenseman


quote:

ORIGINAL: Numdydar

Factories that are R&D do not 'build' anything, they just put points towards acceleration of their availability. Every 100 points (supposedly) will allow an engine or airframe availability to 'speed up' by a month. In my example earlier, Toko Rocket's original availability was 12/45 and due to acceleration is now 11/45. Howerver, because it is still a looong way off from 11/45 in my game [:D], no actual production will occur. Just points added to the whatever number is needed to be reached in order to accelerate the engine again. Again, obviouly NOT 100.

I believe that producing 100 r&d aircraft that advancing the date by a month is not automatic. In one of my PBEMs I had 110 of a type producing for over a month and the type did not advance.

So once the availability and the R&D date match (it's always the 1st of the month btw) the switch will take place. So if it is 9/31 and I get a new plane type on 10/1, the new plane production and the factory switches will automaticly take place on the 10/1 turn. The same is true for engines. So make sure you have the 'upgrade/keep' toggle where you want them for the new plane type BEFORE you run the turn. Once the dates match, actual production can begin of that plane or engine. Only at this time does the available pool start to build up.

Automatic conversion is not automatically on the first of the month. In one of my PBEMs, I had two bases building G3M2s and when 5/42 came and they would convert to G3M3, they did not. One converted on the 4th and the other converted on the 10th of May. I always had them set to upgrade so I assume that there is a die roll that needs to be checked to see if the factory upgrades.




That's interesting. I noticed that my Helen Ia's had not converted over to IIa's on the 1st. So I manually switched them on the 1st and they switched fine, no damage or repair. So if they do not switch automaticly, it looks like you can do it manually and get the same result. Don't want to lose a single day of production if you can help it right [:D] ?

So I assumed that it was just a glitch versus the automatic transfer being randomized as well. Seems kind of stupid when the player can do it with the same results.




offenseman -> RE: Accelerating plane research (3/1/2011 2:07:29 AM)

I just realized why it might have done that for me.  Both my PBEMs are using reinforcements at +/-60 days.  I never stopped to consider that it might simply be randomness from that setting.  oops





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