AGN Turn 1 moves (Full Version)

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CharonJr -> AGN Turn 1 moves (2/12/2011 12:09:55 PM)

From what I have seen about 50% of the AGC thread is actually about AGN, but with the new patch out I thought about what AGN could achieve now and decided to open a seperate thread for it.

Personally I prefer to get some armor across the Daugava as soon as possible and occupy Riga (it will only serve as a supply source once access to the Gulf of Riga is secured, right?) since it gives a bit more flexibility for he next turn and might threaten to create a small pocket.

I think displacing the infantry at the river Dubysa might be a good idea in order to make rail repair there faster for the next turn.

What do you think?

[image]local://upfiles/16421/B3108D2027EA484897C71014024D2C93.jpg[/image]



PeeDeeAitch -> RE: AGN Turn 1 moves (2/12/2011 1:48:19 PM)

Lots of tanks across the Dvina, always good!

For me, unless you are sending that whole 3rd Panzer mobile corp to the north, I am not sure you should send that much punch to Daugavpils - while you have a good punch to the north, your threat to the upper Dneper and the 'bridge' there might suffer. I personally like to get control as far along the rail line to Riga as I can turn 1 so that it goes smoother turn 2.  I "double up" the rail repair there too, and split the AGC rail unit to the east at that swamp - it is more Baltic Zone rail to convert on the road to Vitebsk and seems faster to me.

Pushing your armor over the Dvina at the expense of pockets is also what I think should be done - for the simple fact that a good Soviet player will begin to lock ZOCs as soon as they can, the further one can get in the first two turns the better the playing field for the next turns.

My two cents.



PeeDeeAitch -> RE: AGN Turn 1 moves (2/12/2011 1:56:42 PM)

Also, moving a division of L corps by sea to Ventspils ensures that no turn 2 resupply can happen.



PeeDeeAitch -> RE: AGN Turn 1 moves (2/12/2011 2:24:46 PM)

I try to end up with something like this - all the armor across the Dvina (note, other than the one tank div from AGC, no borrowings were made), the Baltic ports supposedly secured (I did one misclick, but I think the southern of the two is safe). Not a perfect move, but I don't try for perfection here, rather fast movement and what I pocket depend on the luck of the routing units.



[image]local://upfiles/23503/4ED7912A605E4F90941C230E6E39ABF3.jpg[/image]



PsB -> RE: AGN Turn 1 moves (2/15/2011 9:12:06 PM)

nice moves



PzB74 -> RE: AGN Turn 1 moves (2/15/2011 10:21:55 PM)

Please note; this "PsB" is not PzB and has been reported for impersonating.

quote:

ORIGINAL: PsB

nice moves




jcrohio -> RE: AGN Turn 1 moves (2/18/2011 1:16:56 PM)

Been working on my opening turn and following all three of the postings on AGN, AGC, and AGS. One question on AGN - what are you guys doing to take Riga on turn 1? I can get armor next to it but all I can get is a hasty attack that gets replulsed. Is there something I am missing.

Thanks in advance

Jack



PeeDeeAitch -> RE: AGN Turn 1 moves (2/18/2011 1:30:36 PM)

Jack,

It takes sacrificing the pocket, and moving aside the armor and mechanized in 50,43 and 51,43 by infantry. Once this is done, the 36th motorized clears up the center and takes out the armor at 54,40.  The two tanks divisions of the XXXI panzer then drive to 54,40, and then have enough movement to loop around to the east side of Riga.  The stronger of the two should try one hasty attack, if the gods of war are not with you add the second one for a second attack - if you are not a gambler, do one hasty attack with both.  This should clear Riga. How you move after that is up to you.



Blind Sniper -> RE: AGN Turn 1 moves (2/18/2011 2:16:06 PM)

quote:

What do you think?


I don't like your HQ alone near Riga.

quote:

The two tanks divisions of the XXXI panzer then drive to 54,40, and then have enough movement to loop around to the east side of Riga.  The stronger of the two should try one hasty attack, if the gods of war are not with you add the second one for a second attack - if you are not a gambler, do one hasty attack with both.  This should clear Riga. How you move after that is up to you.


Is it worth the losses or is better take other ground?
The infantry can clean up the turn after.





PeeDeeAitch -> RE: AGN Turn 1 moves (2/18/2011 2:48:59 PM)

It is worth it to take Riga turn 1, for the port and to avoid a redoubt the soviets can use. It is better to advance in the north turn 1 than encircle - Pskov needs to fall ASAP.



CharonJr -> RE: AGN Turn 1 moves (2/18/2011 4:42:07 PM)

He should have nothing in range to get to this HQ unless he is willng to sacrifice a mech div and it is able to recover with enough MPs ;)

edit: In addition he has to see it first, too, but you are right, it might be better to put it somehwere safer.



Blind Sniper -> RE: AGN Turn 1 moves (2/18/2011 5:50:05 PM)

quote:

He should have nothing in range to get to this HQ unless he is willng to sacrifice a mech div and it is able to recover with enough MPs ;)

edit: In addition he has to see it first, too, but you are right, it might be better to put it somehwere safer.


I think is unlikely that your opponent can reach it too but is a useless risk.
I will sacrifice a unit to displace your Panzer Corp HQ (this unit would be lost anyway).



carnifex -> RE: AGN Turn 1 moves (2/18/2011 6:00:41 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: PzB

Please note; this "PsB" is not PzB and has been reported for impersonating.

quote:

ORIGINAL: PsB

nice moves




WHAT THE **** ???!?!



Blind Sniper -> RE: AGN Turn 1 moves (2/18/2011 7:14:55 PM)

quote:

It is worth it to take Riga turn 1, for the port and to avoid a redoubt the soviets can use. It is better to advance in the north turn 1 than encircle - Pskov needs to fall ASAP.


Yes but there are two setbacks:
- the soviet units can rout away
- you are loosing tanks, if you are unlucky the Riga garrison can repulse your attacks (it does not happen so often but still)

In the big campaign I prefer to avoid not necessary battles to my Panzer division, of course I can be wrong and is better take Riga.



Mynok -> RE: AGN Turn 1 moves (2/18/2011 9:59:43 PM)


Just be sure to move a unit to block any eastward retreat out of Riga into the swamps.



Blind Sniper -> RE: AGN Turn 1 moves (2/18/2011 10:25:32 PM)

quote:

Just be sure to move a unit to block any eastward retreat out of Riga into the swamps.


They can rout anyway if you attach them in the first turn.



Mynok -> RE: AGN Turn 1 moves (2/18/2011 11:00:28 PM)


I don't intend on attacking them on turn 1. I intend on keeping them where my infantry can do it on turn 2. You won't see me sending precious panzers into urban hexes.



Blind Sniper -> RE: AGN Turn 1 moves (2/19/2011 9:26:27 AM)

It was unclear to me when you would do it, sorry.
We want to do the same tactic to take Riga.



Powloon -> RE: AGN Turn 1 moves (2/19/2011 10:16:40 AM)

I think Riga is worth taking. Just figured how to land infantry here on turn 1. Apologies if this is obvious to everyone still a noob. Basically bombed kurrasare port until 12% damaged and this allowed sea transport into Riga. Not sure if there is a minimum percentage required to achieve this.

[image]local://upfiles/22544/E4D944FD27EA45B7AB59AD4122DC8705.jpg[/image]



Timmeh -> RE: AGN Turn 1 moves (2/20/2011 1:56:05 PM)


I would advocate Riga turn 1 too. leads to this at the end of turn 5. Not too sure but I think the Leningrad is in the trouble?

[image]local://upfiles/19119/C3863C34DD674CBDB8CB4AD5C2A257C8.jpg[/image]



CharonJr -> RE: AGN Turn 1 moves (2/20/2011 2:04:49 PM)

Just any damage at all is needed at the port to open up the sealane to Riga.



PeeDeeAitch -> RE: AGN Turn 1 moves (2/20/2011 3:14:34 PM)

While I don't normally advocate tanks attacking cities towns, I think the payoffs on turn 1 of taking Riga far outweigh the negatives. Just the ability to jumpstart the AGN assault, clearing the Dvina with all the mobil units on a broad front, gives far more options to the German player.

Yes, there will be fewer destroyed units in order to take Riga, but in the North I believe that trade off for a rapid advance is important.  Upsetting a timetable for defense can mean more units bagged later in more hasty defenses.



Powloon -> RE: AGN Turn 1 moves (2/21/2011 9:42:20 PM)

Here is my AGN move. My first campaign game (challenging level) so go easy .

Manged to sea transport 2/3 of XXVI Corps to Riga from memel on turn 1. With Kerresare port damged to 11% it looks like the Gulf of Riga is open. Intending to use XXXI Panzer Corps up the coast and sieze the ports (Parnu and Tallinn) hopefully keeping in supply from these ports. I have stacked L Corps in Memel and hopefully can sea transport them to Parnu next turn in support. Does anyone know how much sea lift capacity you get per turn? Moving the 2 divisions and head quarters of XXVI Corps pretty much used my transport allowance. Could the Soviet air force close Riga port?

Captured the ports of Ventspils and Liepaja to prevent the Sovs slipping away and got my armour across the Dugava and pocketed most of the units I faced. Anything I missed?

[image]local://upfiles/22544/359494CB79054F80959203C81F35BE58.jpg[/image]



Ridgeway -> RE: AGN Turn 1 moves (3/18/2011 7:08:53 PM)

This is my latest thinking on AGN. I send LVII from PG3 to Dvinsk, and it will drive from there to Velikie Luki.

All of the armor from XXXIX and LVI PZ Corps are across the river (although I messed up and left XXXIX HQ exposed).

I prefer to sealift in XXXVIII Corps, L Corps and a couple of security divisions, and have I Corps and XXVI Corps walk and fight.

I had an interesting thought on FBD4 -- would it make sense to have him walk (or get sealifted) to Riga, and start converting the rails from there toward Pskov? I am not sure if I see the point in linking Germany with Riga, since Riga is its own supply source (as long as you keep bombing Kuressare or capture it). If I did that, I would probably sent FBD3 to Kaunus (like normal) and then send him North and then East to Dvinsk (rather than though Vilnius, so as to take advantage of as much Baltic rail as possible).

[image]local://upfiles/37652/BDA5EE40307E4F77A6BCC04A96E00199.gif[/image]



PeeDeeAitch -> RE: AGN Turn 1 moves (3/18/2011 7:10:54 PM)

I have had a few "Oops" HQ placements in my time...



Ridgeway -> RE: AGN Turn 1 moves (3/18/2011 7:19:42 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Ridgeway

This is my latest thinking on AGN. I send LVII from PG3 to Dvinsk, and it will drive from there to Velikie Luki.

All of the armor from XXXIX and LVI PZ Corps are across the river (although I messed up and left XXXIX HQ exposed).

I prefer to sealift in XXXVIII Corps, L Corps and a couple of security divisions, and have I Corps and XXVI Corps walk and fight.

I had an interesting thought on FBD4 -- would it make sense to have him walk (or get sealifted) to Riga, and start converting the rails from there toward Pskov? I am not sure if I see the point in linking Germany with Riga, since Riga is its own supply source (as long as you keep bombing Kuressare or capture it). If I did that, I would probably sent FBD3 to Kaunus (like normal) and then send him North and then East to Dvinsk (rather than though Vilnius, so as to take advantage of as much Baltic rail as possible).

[image]local://upfiles/37652/BDA5EE40307E4F77A6BCC04A96E00199.gif[/image]


There a bunch of typos in my map -- that should be XXXXI Pz Corps by Riga, and XXXVIII Corps being sealifted on T2.



Ketza -> RE: AGN Turn 1 moves (3/18/2011 9:20:40 PM)

Is that pocket weak near Utena?



Ridgeway -> RE: AGN Turn 1 moves (3/18/2011 9:33:45 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Ketza

Is that pocket weak near Utena?


I haven't tested it, but it should hold. It is not clear in the picture but woods E and SE are all Axis control, so it is a long walk for that Inf Div (I think) in Svencioneliai.

If it does not hold, it is not a big deal -- that pocket is a bonus, and I think it is more important to get all the mech divs over the Dvina. Even if it is breached, I don't think it is escapable, because II Corps from 16A is heading up that path toward Dvinsk in T2.

I am running this one hotseat against myself, so I will see what can be done.



Ketza -> RE: AGN Turn 1 moves (3/18/2011 9:54:25 PM)

I like your post. Several good ideas concerning the naval movement. Nicely done.



Mynok -> RE: AGN Turn 1 moves (3/18/2011 9:56:19 PM)

I suspect that Talinn is in the ZOC of Leningrad and is unavailable for supply or sea lift.

Just checked my game which is well along (Turn 14) and Talinn can be sealifted to. The caveat is that there are no remaining Soviet ports on the north coast of the Baltics or approaching Leningrad.



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