RE: Misplaced Victories - They were here a second ago... (Full Version)

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PeeDeeAitch -> RE: Misplaced Victories - They were here a second ago... (4/14/2011 10:35:09 PM)

41 TOE for the motorized - no AFVs.



Mynok -> RE: Misplaced Victories - They were here a second ago... (4/14/2011 11:08:55 PM)


Would kinda help if I'd noticed that huh.... [:'(]



cpt flam -> RE: Misplaced Victories - They were here a second ago... (4/15/2011 9:33:47 AM)

will need time to reform an army
I have men & armement
could prove if I knew how to insert an image



cpt flam -> RE: Misplaced Victories - They were here a second ago... (4/15/2011 11:21:12 AM)

found how it work

[image]local://upfiles/37270/8B83616085DD4AEBBA0C181C61029786.jpg[/image]



76mm -> RE: Misplaced Victories - They were here a second ago... (4/15/2011 11:30:58 AM)

Well you 've certainly got more than a few tanks and men in your pools--why exactly aren't they in units?



sillyflower -> RE: Misplaced Victories - They were here a second ago... (4/15/2011 12:55:13 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: 76mm

Well you 've certainly got more than a few tanks and men in your pools--why exactly aren't they in units?



I have same problem with my russians May 42. Plenty of units on/next to my rail lines not at full strength, many on refit and all set at 100% TOE.



cpt flam -> RE: Misplaced Victories - They were here a second ago... (4/15/2011 1:30:42 PM)

for the moment
problem is having unit[sm=00000018.gif]



PeeDeeAitch -> RE: Misplaced Victories - They were here a second ago... (4/15/2011 1:59:52 PM)

Ok, I blame me for that.



TulliusDetritus -> RE: Misplaced Victories - They were here a second ago... (4/15/2011 2:26:45 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: cpt flam
for the moment
problem is having unit[sm=00000018.gif]

quote:

ORIGINAL: PeeDeeAitch
Ok, I blame me for that.


LOLOLOL!

cpt flam, I haven't touched the '42 campaign, but this is what I would do. Ok, you obviously need to create tons of divisions now. APs are obviously the problem. Well, look for units that are in minimum fort level 2 hexes. Set them to static. This should give you EXTRA APs, badly needed if you want to rebuild the Red Army [:)] Put only few of these units on static each turn. This way you should be harvesting adminstrative points.



76mm -> RE: Misplaced Victories - They were here a second ago... (4/15/2011 2:38:34 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: TulliusDetritus

Set them to static. This should give you EXTRA APs, badly needed if you want to rebuild the Red Army [:)] Put only few of these units on static each turn. This way you should be harvesting adminstrative points.


I don't know, I looked at doing this in my campaign, and IIRC I would have earned a whole 1 AP per division, so it didn't seem like a worthwhile exercise.



TulliusDetritus -> RE: Misplaced Victories - They were here a second ago... (4/15/2011 2:44:56 PM)

Ah, only 1? On my game I set to static three units in the three Moscow hexes. On next turn I had over 300 APs. And no front was arriving. I guess my conclusion was wrong then [:)]



76mm -> RE: Misplaced Victories - They were here a second ago... (4/15/2011 2:59:23 PM)

IIRC the number of points is get is based on the number of trucks in the unit, so rifle divs give you very very few AP; note that I didn't actually put an units in static, because after doing a back of the envelope calculation I determined I would earn 1 AP, but maybe actual practice provides more. Maybe if you did it with motorized or tank units you'd get more, but I doubt he has many of those to spare.



DTurtle -> RE: Misplaced Victories - They were here a second ago... (4/15/2011 3:32:48 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: TulliusDetritus

Ah, only 1? On my game I set to static three units in the three Moscow hexes. On next turn I had over 300 APs. And no front was arriving. I guess my conclusion was wrong then [:)]

When you hit the "Set static" button it immediately tells you how many AP you get and if you accept them, you get them immediately.

The amount of AP you get is dependent on the number of vehicles that unit has (Section 7.5.4.1 in the manual), specifically 1AP plus the number of vehicles/100 per unit.

So, if you want lots of AP you should set motorized divisions (if they exist in the 42 campaign) and tank brigades to static. If they are attacked and retreat, they are reactivated at no AP cost, enabling you to retreat them somewhere, rebuild their vehicle pool, and set them to static again [:)]

Looking at your pools it almost seems like you could be able to build motorized brigades for "free" if you set them to static, as a 100% motorized brigade has about 500 vehicles, and therefore gives 6 AP. Looking at your tank pools, you can alos build lots of tank brigades. At 100% they should each give 3 AP.

Infantry, Cavalry, Airborne, etc. all just give 1 AP, as they barely use any vehicles at all.



TulliusDetritus -> RE: Misplaced Victories - They were here a second ago... (4/15/2011 3:59:23 PM)

I see, DTurtle [:)] I think the 3 units I set on static were two strong divisions of the Moscow District and yes, perhaps one tank brigade. So, over 300 APs on that next turn (and as I have said no front was arriving), that was certainly a coincidence. I really have to reread the manual! [sm=00000028.gif]

I really hadn't paid attention to the message which appears when you want to put a unit to static mode. I thought it was written something like 1 AP = the cost of the static thing.



Klydon -> RE: Misplaced Victories - They were here a second ago... (4/15/2011 6:13:03 PM)

As a Russian I don't really ever want to put infantry in static mode. You don't get much out of them doing it. Doing it with tank and mech units with the idea that you can "game" extra AP's out of the system long term really doesn't work that hot either I don't think. Putting those units in static mode and then reactivating them is a net loser in AP's. It will give you a more immediate pool of points, but in the long run, you will likely come up short. Tank brigades don't give you a lot anyway and generally cost 6 a shot to activate. Tank corps and mech corps (or divisions early in the game for that matter) will give you a lot when you put them in static. When the divisions either turn into brigades (armor) or infantry divisions (mech) then you can reactivate them. My experience is for whatever reason, it remains extremely expensive to reactivate the armor, but the mech to infantry seems to work ok and it usually doesn't cost more than 2 points or so to reactivate them.

For building new units, I think you just bite the bullet and do 5 divisions a turn. You could do two brigades for the price of 1 division, but the brigades together don't equal the power of a division IMO. You also don't want to do divisions en mass because your armaments won't be able to keep up with equipping new units along with providing replacements to units in action. Bringing new units on line takes time. You have the turn you build them (shells) and then they are frozen for a turn and after that, you should likely give them 2 more turns for them to get into any sort of fighting shape, so you are looking at probably 4 turns. If you do 5 divisions every turn, that means you are essentially fitting out 20 divisions at a time. I would lean away from doing armor/mech as they are expensive and brittle at this point. A better strategy may perhaps to be go with 4 divisions a turn along with forming 1 infantry corps a turn. You start getting infantry corps together (especially guards corps), your combat power of concentration will go up a lot and those will be tough for the Axis to deal with. Just be careful with them and don't get a pile of them surrounded. [;)]

Also, take a look at the re-enforcement schedule. I believe the Russians will get some fronts activated during the year and they will give you a big shot of points when they activate to help you out.

Edit: TD, it sounds like that while you did not get a front arriving, you had one activate someplace. I don't see how you would have gotten 300 points out of 3 divisions. (About the max I have seen out of a tank/mech division was upper 20's I think).



randallw -> RE: Misplaced Victories - They were here a second ago... (4/15/2011 7:10:32 PM)

Looks to me that a good deal of flam's industry was overrun.



Mynok -> RE: Misplaced Victories - They were here a second ago... (4/15/2011 7:30:48 PM)


PeeDee's Stalino grab got a good chunk.



PeeDeeAitch -> RE: Misplaced Victories - They were here a second ago... (4/16/2011 2:35:00 AM)

Losses, through my half of turn 55 - June 2nd, 1942. Comparison here is with the last turn of clear, 1941:



[image]local://upfiles/23503/C3C2E91606174149BA8B7D7D8262A720.gif[/image]



PeeDeeAitch -> RE: Misplaced Victories - They were here a second ago... (4/16/2011 2:36:26 AM)

OOB, turn 55

I think I am doing alright. I hope all that manpower stays out of units - I have destroyed plenty so far.


[image]local://upfiles/23503/70F217B648AB472596E7D68DFBACDE7F.gif[/image]



PeeDeeAitch -> RE: Misplaced Victories - They were here a second ago... (4/16/2011 2:39:45 AM)

Finally, destroyed units - turn 55

Here is where I think I have done quite well. You can see the pocket from the snow at the bottom, and then the big pocket more recently. This is what will impact the Soviets most.

He has manpower, he doesn't have the units to get the men to.


[image]local://upfiles/23503/48D43DBCB8CE4BE3A3430F36254F3136.gif[/image]



PeeDeeAitch -> RE: Misplaced Victories - They were here a second ago... (4/16/2011 3:50:05 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Ketza

I have a severe case of pocket envy.

Well played!

For those of you with pocket envy (terminal), you should look away (shot after recon and I didn't flip back from f5 - why the reversed control). This is when the pocket finally closed, after 3 turns of back and forth - it was the 2 back to back mud turns (oddly enough) that made this possible. I actually did HQ buildup on the 4th Panzer Army so it could help close it even in the mud - there was just no way to break it.

Once it was sealed, I used the 3rd Panzer and 1st Panzer to smash into the pocket so that no relief could happen the next turn - it would be too wide a corridor to cross. As I have said, I use my Panzers more than others, and you saw the results of the worn units after this - still, it was worth it, I think.



[image]local://upfiles/23503/4B3456BA6F624E749F1D225F669B3B8F.gif[/image]



Mynok -> RE: Misplaced Victories - They were here a second ago... (4/16/2011 4:25:43 AM)

You will definitely be forced to use your panzers to reduce that  one. I see 3 Cav corps and a tank corps in there. Your grunts will not dent that stuff even when isolated. Plus the sheer mass of them...mensch!

Would love to see a shot with CVs for that.



76mm -> RE: Misplaced Victories - They were here a second ago... (4/16/2011 4:43:59 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Klydon
You could do two brigades for the price of 1 division, but the brigades together don't equal the power of a division IMO.


Eh? In my game it is 5 AP for a brigade vs 20 for a division, or 4 to 1...



Klydon -> RE: Misplaced Victories - They were here a second ago... (4/16/2011 4:54:19 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: 76mm


quote:

ORIGINAL: Klydon
You could do two brigades for the price of 1 division, but the brigades together don't equal the power of a division IMO.


Eh? In my game it is 5 AP for a brigade vs 20 for a division, or 4 to 1...



Just double checked. Brigades are 5, rifle divisions 10 (both cav and infantry). Costs 20 to combine into a infantry corps.



76mm -> RE: Misplaced Victories - They were here a second ago... (4/16/2011 8:00:11 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Klydon
Just double checked. Brigades are 5, rifle divisions 10 (both cav and infantry). Costs 20 to combine into a infantry corps.


Maybe it depends on the date (manual already seems out of date on this) but as of March 1942 a rifle or cav division costs 20.



cpt flam -> RE: Misplaced Victories - They were here a second ago... (4/16/2011 8:42:47 AM)

that's right
cost change in May or June
putting Tank X static give 3 AP
long time before next front arriving



PeeDeeAitch -> RE: Misplaced Victories - They were here a second ago... (4/16/2011 3:54:53 PM)

Time to plan.

The panzers have had 2 turns to rest, it will likely take several more turns to get back up to fighting snugg (5 CV tanks might be ok in the actual 1942 scenario, but those for my game indicate rest and refit is needed).

But once August comes, it will be time for my plan, which I have tentatively entitles "The August Plan." As all 4 Panzer Armies have been gathered, resting on railheads, and really don't want to move long distances, where they start is where things will start.

The opening move is obvious - rapid deep strikes by tanks supported by infantry in large encircling movements designed to break the enemy's ability to resist. (Wait, I think I copied that from somewhere) Anyway, good things start with driving the Panzer Armies into oblivion.

This opening is also made better by having three relatively fresh infantry armies concentrated for the assaults, mop ups, and flank protection.

Really, I have no plan beyond the breakout - but that is sort of my style.




[image]local://upfiles/23503/3B40C11AFD924549A97DD0799779B65E.gif[/image]



PeeDeeAitch -> RE: Misplaced Victories - They were here a second ago... (4/16/2011 3:58:51 PM)

As always, don't read too much into my plans. Some are plans, some are jokes, some are whims, some are just playing with arrows.



Klydon -> RE: Misplaced Victories - They were here a second ago... (4/16/2011 4:03:57 PM)

Interesting on the cost changes. I loaded up a game to check that. Checked another game I had going and it is 20 for a division. Wow!

Well, given that I would do brigades then, except I think they can't be combined quite yet, but at least they would be ready when they can be combined. I think 20 is too much for 1 division and you are better off with 4 brigades at this point.





PeeDeeAitch -> RE: Misplaced Victories - They were here a second ago... (4/16/2011 4:07:48 PM)

I will trade Cpt Flam one Romanian infantry division (CV 6) for 500 T-34s, straight up!



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