RE: And so July ends with total defeat looming...

RE: And so July ends with total defeat looming... (Full Version)

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Senno -> RE: And so July ends with total defeat looming... (3/5/2011 9:49:11 PM)
I will trade you my turn 5 plus 1 hamburger next, next Thursday for your current turn. I am open to counter-offers, of course. But please remember the economy is bad, and barter is better.[:D]

Klydon -> RE: And so July ends with total defeat looming... (3/6/2011 3:55:28 AM)
I think PDH is secretly Bob Uecker.. [;)]

Senno -> RE: And so July ends with total defeat looming... (3/6/2011 4:32:02 AM)
Haha. If Bob Eucker and Yogi Berra called a game together would anyone but them know what was going on?

PeeDeeAitch -> RE: And so July ends with total defeat looming... (3/6/2011 1:59:46 PM)
I don't know what is going on, that is for damn sure. I am just running around with panzers going all willy-nilly and hoping that in a decade some little digital historian in this make believe world will write about my coherant strategy.

Encircled -> RE: And so July ends with total defeat looming... (3/6/2011 2:57:38 PM)
You could call it something like "vaguely remembered victories"

PeeDeeAitch -> Panzer Liter - Or, Guderian Has Gas? (3/6/2011 6:18:40 PM)
Turn 7 was a turn of promise. I promised not to cry about how poorly I played, for the most part. In the North the pocket to the West of Leningrad was cleaned up - the tanks of Panzer Group 4 mostly rested and moved into position, Manstein's corp did whatever fighting was needed. In a complete change of plan, my goal was to send the Group screaming to the Volkhov. I firmly instructed the Luftwaffe to no longer drop novelty items or "gentlemen's magazines" to the tanks, but fuel. After one rough go I added that the fuel should be in containers of some sort rather than airdropped out of a hose. I might pay later for having most of 16th Army here along with the 18th, but the chance to isolate a fair number of troops in Novgorod is too tempting. [image]local://upfiles/23503/C0FD37DAC8C1404BAEF24C633F6ACF98.jpg[/image]

PeeDeeAitch -> RE: Panzer Liter - Or, Guderian Has Gas? (3/6/2011 6:26:43 PM)
The center was still quiet, I am resting the tanks to try and liberate the Ukraine. I read somewhere that this might work, we shall see... In the South the very tenuous pocket of turn 6 was controlled on turn 7, as seen below. The Dnepr has still not been crossed, but a feint was made outside of Kiev (a retreat and ZOC can be see in the top of the picture). The actual plan is to have Panzer Group 1 cross far further downriver, to the south of Poltava. With this in mind a mobile corps was rested and refueled south of Cherkassy. Thus I am falling into the trap of an overly complex plan. I need the panzer corps in the south that trapped the pocket to run north, while the other two corps get to, and hopefully one corp over the river. It is in moments like this that I am most dangerous, as my carefully laid plans fall apart. At least in the olden days I could "trip" over the table and upset the map, now I am forced to face my folly - thanks a lot, 2by3! [image]local://upfiles/23503/F7E460CEC58941CD888513CC27257C6A.jpg[/image]

PeeDeeAitch -> RE: Panzer Liter - Or, Guderian Has Gas? (3/6/2011 6:30:35 PM)
Why that southern pocked could be formed. The 11th Army was not dispersed, and instead stayed a mass of maneuver to breach the river lines in front of Odessa. By turn 6 the forward elements were ready to not dive to Odessa, but rather cut across and try (and fail) to close the souther pocket. Still, by turn 7 the pocket was tight. You will note my canny use of the Romanians on the flank of this major advance. I recall reading somewhere that the Germans did this, and it would be dumb to not emulate this technique. I plan to try this on the Don in 1942... [image]local://upfiles/23503/2DDD50EABD2543698720FB4BA273873A.jpg[/image]

2ndACR -> RE: Panzer Liter - Or, Guderian Has Gas? (3/6/2011 6:34:21 PM)
You will probably need infantry to force that crossing. Armor suffers serious CV slash attacking across a major river. Unless you get lucky and find that 1/1 infantry unit that can be punted back from the river giving you your toehold. Basically, any place you punt a unit back from the river is your toehold. That panzer Corps can shoot north and if lucky, get across the river next turn if you can repeat the punt. Do not get tied to 1 crossing area. Any crossing point you get will work. I would really plan a crossing action for turn 9. That allows your infantry to close more, rested panzer troops with 1 corps south of Kiev, 1 corps near Cherkassy and the other standing by for where ever you get across. That is for a deliberate advance. But if you get lucky and get across next turn, then that is where every single armor unit would be heading if it was me.

PeeDeeAitch -> RE: Panzer Liter - Or, Guderian Has Gas? (3/6/2011 6:39:12 PM)
Let's just say this AAR is one turn behind, and as of turn 7 my recon showed no defenders down by the bend of the river, and my overly complex plan included a panzer division out all alone between Kirovograd and Krivoi Rog that was begging to have units from the north come down and and surround. It was a ploy, I hoped it was a good one. If it goes as all my other plans go it is folly.

PeeDeeAitch -> RE: Panzer Liter - Or, Guderian Has Gas? (3/6/2011 6:43:26 PM)
Losses as of turn 7 were 1.5 million Soviet casualties. Of those 995,000 captured. Who cares about how many T-26s or BTs I destroyed? German losses were 170,000 with 88,000 of those being KIA.

karonagames -> RE: Panzer Liter - Or, Guderian Has Gas? (3/6/2011 7:45:22 PM)
quote: Let's just say this AAR is one turn behind, and as of turn 7 my recon showed no defenders down by the bend of the river, and my overly complex plan included a panzer division out all alone between Kirovograd and Krivoi Rog that was begging to have units from the north come down and and surround.��It was a�ploy, I hoped it was a good one. �If it goes as all my other plans go it is folly. Make sure you have plenty of transports to get gas to the Panzers- supply gets tight east of Krivoi Rog, and even worse when you actually cross the river.

PeeDeeAitch -> RE: Panzer Liter - Or, Guderian Has Gas? (3/6/2011 7:50:41 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: BigAnorak Make sure you have plenty of transports to get gas to the Panzers- supply gets tight east of Krivoi Rog, and even worse when you actually cross the river. Goering assures me there is adequate transport to supply any advance by air.

Senno -> RE: Panzer Liter - Or, Guderian Has Gas? (3/6/2011 7:57:39 PM)
Airdropping fuel in containers is a wonderful idea. I saw one of your Panzer crew with a hose trying to suction fuel out of a RV parked near Cherkassy. Unfortunately, they had the hose in the sewage waste container. Heinz is now at the hospital....having his own stomach pumped... Thanks for the advice in my AAR, btw. Helped a good bit. That is advice = good, my implementation = not so much. --------------------------------------------- Are your Romanians showing any gains in morale/exp? quote: ORIGINAL: PeeDeeAitch Goering assures me there is adequate transport to supply any advance by air. I about fell out of my chair, haha.[:D]

Klydon -> RE: Panzer Liter - Or, Guderian Has Gas? (3/6/2011 7:59:37 PM)
Enjoying reading this AAR, but I do have one request and that is when you take your screen shots, can you have fort level on please? Helps give everyone an idea of how well dug in the defenders are.

PeeDeeAitch -> RE: Panzer Liter - Or, Guderian Has Gas? (3/6/2011 8:21:04 PM)
Can do! I take screenshots at the end of my turn so I usually have them off because the spoil the aesthetics of my perfect plans before they are spoiled by the Soviets reacting. I shall turn them on so we can see what type of defenses I face.

randallw -> RE: Panzer Liter - Or, Guderian Has Gas? (3/6/2011 8:29:08 PM)
You should trust Hermann, the man would never lie.

PeeDeeAitch -> RE: Panzer Liter - Or, Guderian Has Gas? (3/6/2011 9:05:53 PM)
I have no reason to doubt him. If he says he can airlift enough support for a full army, he must mean it!

Senno -> RE: Panzer Liter - Or, Guderian Has Gas? (3/6/2011 9:49:25 PM)
Herr PDH, reports are in. The Luftwaffe seems to have dropped full dress uniforms for the upcoming Luftwaffe Winter Wonderland formal, instead of fuel.... I hope this does not impact Panzer operations to greatly..[;)]

PeeDeeAitch -> RE: Panzer Liter - Or, Guderian Has Gas? (3/7/2011 2:51:18 AM)
A quicky note about Turn 8. I got across the Dnepr where I planned, only two units though. He will be able to hem 1st Panzer in. Big pocket reduced. Volkhov crossed by wild panzers, but I expect them to be cut off - airdrops to LVI panzer corps should allow the rescue along with all of 18th Army. In the center, I have no plans...no hope...no goals...nohow.

PeeDeeAitch -> RE: Panzer Liter - Or, Guderian Has Gas? (3/8/2011 1:27:47 AM)
Looks like there will be a slowdown for a bit while Capt Flam takes care of some stuff.� Guess I will wait patiently, maybe start another game while I play this one more slowly - I like how it goes. -edit - I do have turn 8 from the Germans in, wish some screenshots, but I will wait to get them posted.

Senno -> RE: Panzer Liter - Or, Guderian Has Gas? (3/8/2011 1:56:13 AM)
To bad. The comedy made the AAR quite entertaining. Look forward to the next.

randallw -> RE: Panzer Liter - Or, Guderian Has Gas? (3/8/2011 5:39:46 AM)
Comedy? Comedy and Germans do not go together! [:D]

PeeDeeAitch -> If at First You Don't Overextend (3/8/2011 10:10:28 PM)
Turn 8 saw The Axis in full overconfidence mode. I plan to ride the victories of early August all the way to the Pacific. The defense be nothing, no rivers will help the defense, and all losses will be replaced. I put in my order with the winter outfitter for coats, mittens, and mukluks for the infantry. They are being sent on the first free supply train. In the North the optimism is in full swing. The Volkhov has been crossed and the wide open panzer country of dense forests and swamps awaits the 4th Panzer Group. A loose encirclement of Novgorod should force the denfenders back - they might be caught next turn or I might move north to take the lake ports for Leningrad. Whatever I choose, I will succeed since I command near supermen. The eastern approaches to Leningrad seem weak as well, perhaps I can sneak across there. [image]local://upfiles/23503/A21B1047F4F04F09A7FD03BE2243ADFF.jpg[/image]

PeeDeeAitch -> RE: If at First You Don't Overextend (3/8/2011 10:12:21 PM)
The center was quiet, are the Germans just waiting and resting, or are they out of ideas? Whatever is happening, the 2nd Panzer Group makes a dash south while the rest of the Center holds and slowly advances. [image]local://upfiles/23503/8389DEC1E7094C798FDFE83298F5D736.jpg[/image]

PeeDeeAitch -> RE: If at First You Don't Overextend (3/8/2011 10:15:26 PM)
The South, oh the South! The Dnepr was crossed as I hoped, but farther to the east than I wanted and not in the force I expected. The First Panzer Group should be able to exploit this, but I expect hubris to bring me down as in all good tragedies. The pocket has been cleaned up, and the 17th Army pushes toward the Dnepr Bend. Soon all the Ukraine will be mine, and I can start contemplating getting to Grozny by winter! [image]local://upfiles/23503/98F4F914CB254C2FAF89ACFE9B181085.jpg[/image]

PeeDeeAitch -> RE: If at First You Don't Overextend (3/9/2011 3:02:48 AM)
Turns will be coming in slower it seems, but they still will be coming in. I plan to encircle Moscow on turn 9 and then drive to Gorky on turn 10, capturing it on turn 11.

Senno -> RE: If at First You Don't Overextend (3/9/2011 4:56:24 AM)
Sounds reasonable. I can now add a cheeseburger to my previous offer to trade saves. But it still has to be next Thursday, that I actually deliver the hammy and cheeseburger. I await your reasonable counteroffer.[:)]

PeeDeeAitch -> RE: If at First You Don't Overextend (3/9/2011 1:51:26 PM)
End of Turn 8 Losses Soviets - 1.86 million men, 1.25 of those captured. Here is a picture of 2nd Panzer's dash to the south - the armor is blown due to long distance traveled. Guderian was clear in his appeals that he could take Moscow, but the state of the panzers shows he will be lucky to advance over open terrain. I suspect Typhoon will be hurt, I might not take Gorky... The chance of making a firm Kiev Pocket is about nil, but I have to try. [image]local://upfiles/23503/E669DA2B023448279D8E7BF6CF28A984.jpg[/image]

PeeDeeAitch -> RE: If at First You Don't Overextend (3/10/2011 12:31:41 AM)
No turn tonight. I am left to wallow in my own misery and problems. I expect to find that the Soviets have 100 new rifle divisions next turn, a carpet 3 thick between me and everything, and no hope. I have sold all the winter gear for extra cash, I plan to use this to make my getaway fortune by betting it all on "BLACK" at the roulette wheel.

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