RE: Stalin's in the gulag - Tullius (Soviet) vs 2ndACR (Axis) (Full Version)

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Aurelian -> RE: Stalin's in the gulag - Tullius (Soviet) vs 2ndACR (Axis) (3/13/2011 12:32:50 AM)

Yup. I played very badly. Ye old run, run, and run some more defense.



TulliusDetritus -> RE: Stalin's in the gulag - Tullius (Soviet) vs 2ndACR (Axis) (3/13/2011 12:43:09 AM)

You don't have to run. If you do that defeat is awaiting [:)] You have to be more confident and try to stop your opponent [8D] If he makes mistakes (he certainly will, we all make mistakes) be prepared and go for his jugular, show no mercy: at least you will buy one or maybe more turns. Whatever some may say (Axis Supermen), I think it can be done. I mean I still haven't been convinced yet.



TulliusDetritus -> RE: Stalin's in the gulag - Tullius (Soviet) vs 2ndACR (Axis) (3/13/2011 3:52:03 PM)

Ok, to meet the AGN Panzers in that bottleneck I have oficially formed the 28th Army, attached to the Northern Front (aka Leningrad). Rokossovsky is the boss because some MONSTER tank divisions have been attached to this army. I'll be attaching like 4 Rifle Divisions [:)] Oh, and I just assigned to this army 3 RR Bdes + 2 sappers + 3 artillery which will be available on next turn... in theory when these units will see action. I hope this will be a nasty surprise for my estimated e-enemy! These forces have enough punch to counter-attack and force some of his AGN Panzers to retreat... See the CVs [sm=00000055.gif]

P.S.: King Leonidas will be somewhere in that bottleneck. I haven't decided yet where exactly. Sandals are forbidden, Dr Martens boots have been supplied. I want to make sure the Sparta Kick thing is more effective [sm=00000622.gif]

[image]local://upfiles/11562/FE3AA5A4C6044F6B847FBE6B5F7344E4.jpg[/image]



TulliusDetritus -> RE: Stalin's in the gulag - Tullius (Soviet) vs 2ndACR (Axis) (3/13/2011 3:59:13 PM)

The Finns... they are totally irrelevant on this story as long as Leningrad is not captured or the Germans link with them that is. So I am retreating. Like I said somewhere I will be keeping minimum 3 divisions here, as per history. Simply fair play [8D]

[image]local://upfiles/11562/B4B95757F2B04BD8AF4ECDF05A6AF0C1.jpg[/image]



TulliusDetritus -> RE: Stalin's in the gulag - Tullius (Soviet) vs 2ndACR (Axis) (3/13/2011 4:07:09 PM)

East of Lake Ladoga I will keep 4 Rifle Divisions + Sec Regiments. Again, as per history, fair play, etc. etc. All these units will be attached to 7th Army which will be attached to STAVKA itself when I'll have enough APs [8D]

[image]local://upfiles/11562/C860FAE7A6F143E9AD7F86240DFD1693.jpg[/image]



timmyab -> RE: Stalin's in the gulag - Tullius (Soviet) vs 2ndACR (Axis) (3/13/2011 4:15:01 PM)

Is this the start or end of turn?
If it's the end of turn, then I think you're overestimating your strength around Narva.In fact I'd fancy my chances of pushing you out of Narva this turn.I wouldn't even think of counter attacking with that armour, they'll be lambs to the slaughter.



TulliusDetritus -> RE: Stalin's in the gulag - Tullius (Soviet) vs 2ndACR (Axis) (3/13/2011 4:25:58 PM)

It's MERELY the start [sm=00000622.gif] I am going to bring more hordes, don't worry. I wanted to show the unfrozen MONSTER tank divisions attached to a Top Ace guy (Rokossovsky's recently formed 28th army) [8D]



timmyab -> RE: Stalin's in the gulag - Tullius (Soviet) vs 2ndACR (Axis) (3/13/2011 4:38:17 PM)

Phew, that's a relief.You need to at least double the CV's up there and preferably triple especially in the coastal hexes.Don't forget to put the infantry on refit.



TulliusDetritus -> RE: Stalin's in the gulag - Tullius (Soviet) vs 2ndACR (Axis) (3/13/2011 4:55:25 PM)

What about this? I'll be possibly bringing more units. I am a little bit of a paranoid [:D] Maybe I'll be temporarily throwing overboard Sabre's advice about a defensive line along that river south of Leningrad (Luga River). But my guts are telling me: "do stop him, do slow him down NOW and HERE, not along that river". I might be wrong but those Panzers in the bottleneck should be a mistake [:)]

[image]local://upfiles/11562/E053DA3D5D4A4E0B847DA357252A7601.jpg[/image]



timmyab -> RE: Stalin's in the gulag - Tullius (Soviet) vs 2ndACR (Axis) (3/13/2011 5:28:03 PM)

Should be O.K as long as the units plump up during the logistics phase, and as long as they can build another fort level.I'd have one of those strong tank units just west of Narva I think.If you make it impregnable enough then the other two tank divisions wont be needed and can go south.



TulliusDetritus -> RE: Stalin's in the gulag - Tullius (Soviet) vs 2ndACR (Axis) (3/13/2011 5:33:44 PM)

The tanks can't get there. Already used all of their MPs. But on next turn let's say 3 of them might manage to make retreat some of his Panzers. NOT a crazy idea at all. The combined offensive value might me around 15 or 17... + the CV of neighbouring units. And Rokossovsky is possibly the best leader for Armored forces [sm=00000622.gif] I dream I dream I dream, but in theory it's true [:)]



TulliusDetritus -> RE: Stalin's in the gulag - Tullius (Soviet) vs 2ndACR (Axis) (3/13/2011 5:40:36 PM)

Oops, sort of funny. Luga River. You have the Lunga River in Guadalcanal, next to the American positions in the island. The river is not present in WitP though. The island = 2 hexes (Lunga and Tassafaronga if I remember correctly).

P.S.: I haven't touched WitP since I bought WitE on december [:(] I miss it!



timmyab -> RE: Stalin's in the gulag - Tullius (Soviet) vs 2ndACR (Axis) (3/13/2011 5:47:47 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: TulliusDetritus

But on next turn let's say 3 of them might manage to make retreat some of his Panzers. NOT a crazy idea at all. The combined offensive value might me around 15 or 17... + the CV of neighbouring units. And Rokossovsky is possibly the best leader for Armored forces [sm=00000622.gif] I dream I dream I dream, but in theory it's true [:)]

Well it's your funeral, or should I say it's there's.[:D]
Be interesting to see what happens.The main problem I see is that the tanks will be decimated with nothing to show for it even if the Germans are pushed back a hex, which I doubt.Another thing, those tank divisions are terrible offensive weapons, they are extremely loathed to deliberate attack sometimes even when starting their turn adjacent to the enemy.




TulliusDetritus -> RE: Stalin's in the gulag - Tullius (Soviet) vs 2ndACR (Axis) (3/13/2011 6:11:01 PM)

Don't forget the Soviets only need 1:1 [:)] Clumsy elephants or not, these tank divisions deliver offensive value, they are not the classic 1=1 ants.



bevans -> RE: Stalin's in the gulag - Tullius (Soviet) vs 2ndACR (Axis) (3/13/2011 6:18:37 PM)

I see no problems with an aggressive defense; most of the AARs and certainly the AI is far less aggresive than the SU was historically. Those motorized divisions are NOT in tank country and the longer they are there, the longer before they are roaming in the SU rear is some other breakthrough. The SU has more and generally better tanks than the Germans, why not use them as they were supposed to be used?




TulliusDetritus -> RE: Stalin's in the gulag - Tullius (Soviet) vs 2ndACR (Axis) (3/13/2011 6:36:31 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: bevans

I see no problems with an aggressive defense; most of the AARs and certainly the AI is far less aggresive than the SU was historically. Those motorized divisions are NOT in tank country and the longer they are there, the longer before they are roaming in the SU rear is some other breakthrough. The SU has more and generally better tanks than the Germans, why not use them as they were supposed to be used?




Exactly [:)] Not tank country, not space to maneuver... IF I manage to more or less stop him here I am pretty certain Leningrad will be saved. I'm sorry but his infantry near Pskov without panzers, that, I don't fear at all. Yes, push me here and there [8D] There's no way back. Putting these armored hordes again near Pskov would take 2 turns minimum. Maybe I can win the Battle of Leningrad here. Let's pray! [sm=innocent0001.gif]



PeeDeeAitch -> RE: Stalin's in the gulag - Tullius (Soviet) vs 2ndACR (Axis) (3/13/2011 6:40:08 PM)

I like aggressive Soviet defense. It matches up well with my bulldog style. Of course, by winter I have no Germans left, but that is the price to pay for fun.



TulliusDetritus -> RE: Stalin's in the gulag - Tullius (Soviet) vs 2ndACR (Axis) (3/13/2011 6:52:39 PM)

PeeDeeAitch, your "bulldog style" is now paying extraordinary dividends. Agressive Soviet player + agressive German player = 2 galaxies colliding [8D]



Encircled -> RE: Stalin's in the gulag - Tullius (Soviet) vs 2ndACR (Axis) (3/13/2011 7:08:08 PM)

I'm playing two Soviet campaigns and I'm keeping my armor alive if at all possible.

The big problem is that one counter attack pretty much uses all your movement points, so if you attack, then you are stuck.

If you are stuck in '41, then you are dead.

But they do look good!

And it is very satisfying to see a German unit retreat in the summer of '41



Tarhunnas -> RE: Stalin's in the gulag - Tullius (Soviet) vs 2ndACR (Axis) (3/13/2011 7:12:58 PM)

My favorite is when jerry parks a panzer division in a swamp. Then I hit him with everything I've got, it usually succeeds even at poor odds, and if that panzer division retreats it will take fearsome retreat losses! [:D]



TulliusDetritus -> RE: Stalin's in the gulag - Tullius (Soviet) vs 2ndACR (Axis) (3/13/2011 7:34:04 PM)

Ok. Turn done in the Leningrad and Northwest Fronts. Alea Iacta Est! As you can see, I have brought many hordes to stop or slow down my enenmy. Let's not forget King Leonidas, I am pretty certain he's going to Spartakick someone [&o]

EDIT: and yes, I am throwing overboard Sabre's advice about the two defensive lines. My guts thing. This might be the opportunity I was looking for [:)]

[image]local://upfiles/11562/8AE8981E9933466AA2EBE9FC46C83052.jpg[/image]



TulliusDetritus -> RE: Stalin's in the gulag - Tullius (Soviet) vs 2ndACR (Axis) (3/13/2011 7:49:29 PM)

His AGC northern Panzer Army is visiting the Kalinin Front. Ergo, the threat in the Western Front is almost non existent, if I am not mistaken (I mean for the next 2 or maybe 3 turns). The cavalry divisions should be attacking his flanks and cutting off some of his units if he makes (I hope [sm=innocent0001.gif]!) some mistakes [8D]



[image]local://upfiles/11562/1BBD38F8BBE64A2DBBFF3E80ADA2B46E.jpg[/image]



TulliusDetritus -> RE: Stalin's in the gulag - Tullius (Soviet) vs 2ndACR (Axis) (3/13/2011 9:04:21 PM)

And the Western and Bryansk Fronts. It seems he is ignoring both Vitebsk and Smolensk. I think that might be a mistake. Of course he might want to form a mega pocket, the northern pincer now next to Velikie Luki and the southern pincer near Gomel. Way too separated methinks [&:] I very much doubt that would work (where's the needed infantry?). So overall I think Vitebsk can still resist maybe 2 or 3 turns (and Smolensk 4 or 5), and that should be very BAD news for the Germans! And of course excellent news for me. I know I should be getting some but I will do my best to avoid that [:D]

[image]local://upfiles/11562/FA0B2621E9F24ABFA602C9313F1819D3.jpg[/image]



PeeDeeAitch -> RE: Stalin's in the gulag - Tullius (Soviet) vs 2ndACR (Axis) (3/13/2011 9:16:43 PM)

Not sure why he splits up the tanks.  But then, I am the sledghammer type of guy.



TulliusDetritus -> RE: Stalin's in the gulag - Tullius (Soviet) vs 2ndACR (Axis) (3/13/2011 9:32:12 PM)

I'm no German player but I guess that has to be a bad choice. I mean, they are more scary when they are concentrated. The Panzers in the north of the screenshot have a low offensive value: 14. The ones in the south are more dangerous though.



PeeDeeAitch -> RE: Stalin's in the gulag - Tullius (Soviet) vs 2ndACR (Axis) (3/13/2011 9:36:32 PM)

There is a psychological value to three stacks of three fully mechanized/motorized divisions - both for the attacker and defender.  They are meant to be used as a mass, not thrown about all nibly bimbly.  There is a threat value to them, and an actual value - one of those times that the fears of the defender are actually justified.



TulliusDetritus -> RE: Stalin's in the gulag - Tullius (Soviet) vs 2ndACR (Axis) (3/13/2011 10:00:16 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: PeeDeeAitch
There is a threat value to them, and an actual value - one of those times that the fears of the defender are actually justified.


Yes, and my fears are not justified in the landbridge, I suspect: CV of only 14. In the south that's another story [:)] It's curious that he is avoiding the place that to ME is more important, VITAL: Vitebsk and Smolensk that is. I don't think he can eternally avoid them. If he does, I bet my Buzz Lightyear toy Moscow is 100% safe [8D] As Flavio says: resisting here smells like... V I C T O R Y



TulliusDetritus -> RE: Stalin's in the gulag - Tullius (Soviet) vs 2ndACR (Axis) (3/13/2011 10:07:48 PM)

Ok, and now ladies and gentlemen, my massacred Front aka the Southwestern thing. Well, I have more or less managed to form a front line here. I am pulling back (waiting now that he has crossed the river is a suicide methinks) but with a checkerboard. I can't allow him to advance that fast.

I have even partially organized the forces there. The armies got sappers + RR Bdes + artillery. Oh, in case I didn't say, I keep all the HQs locked (STAVKA: Level 9 though).

Here he must have the upper hand, this I know very well. But maybe I have good news. IF I manage to more or less contain him in the north (Western, Kalinin, Leningrad, etc.) then I will be doing what Alfonso suggested: more STAVKA strategic reserves would be sent to the South. So let's see what happens on the next 2 or 3 turns [:)]

Oh, the cavalry here is going to be VITAL. I have to threaten him at all cost... He must know I will be trying to cut his panzers off if he advances like a kamikaze. So I have spreaded the cavalry generously and will keep bringing more cavalry divisions for that matter.

[image]local://upfiles/11562/DBA21839511C47E8970CE34571881493.jpg[/image]



TulliusDetritus -> RE: Stalin's in the gulag - Tullius (Soviet) vs 2ndACR (Axis) (3/13/2011 10:21:00 PM)

And finally the Southern Front, Crimea approaches. I don't have enough hordes to defend the whole place, that's the truth. The 9th and 18th armies are here: they got sappers + RR Bdes + artillery as well [8D]

[image]local://upfiles/11562/619D0497ADCD4D5FA9EB424A0271E8CA.jpg[/image]



alfonso -> RE: Stalin's in the gulag - Tullius (Soviet) vs 2ndACR (Axis) (3/14/2011 12:53:34 AM)

I think that if in turn 6 you are holding Vitebsk and Mogilev it is beginning to be "mathematically" impossible for the Russians to lose Moscow. He is well behind schedule in the center, and holding Pskov in the North is also promising.

As you probably know, there has been some comments in the forum about how easy is for the Soviets to build "impenetrable 4-hex deep level 4 forts"...what I see in your game is what I see in my games. In turn 4 a lot of forts 1 and some forts 2, and in turn 6 a lot of forts 2 and some forts 3. And that is simply because there are not so many hordes to make 3-unit stacks and dig each hex at maximum speed. At least in my games.




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