RE: German Folly 2ndAcr (GE) vs Tullius (Reds) (Full Version)

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Encircled -> RE: German Folly 2ndAcr (GE) vs Tullius (Reds) (3/17/2011 4:09:45 PM)

Agreed, but you will be taking over vast amounts of territory with a lot of rail to convert, and I found three to be very useful.

Each to their own though!



CharonJr -> RE: German Folly 2ndAcr (GE) vs Tullius (Reds) (3/17/2011 5:44:33 PM)

Yes, I like using 3 RR units in the south, too, 1 towards/from Odessa and 2 at a line further north.



2ndACR -> RE: German Folly 2ndAcr (GE) vs Tullius (Reds) (3/17/2011 5:49:02 PM)

Well, the rail unit from AGC will start moving from Gomel angling to the south. If you want to call that south. LOL

It is my main southern units that are way behind. 1 is just approaching Kiev, 11th Army is about 5 hexes from the Dnepr around the city south of Kiev.

Rail is the only thing slowing me down in the south besides just plain tired troops.



Mynok -> RE: German Folly 2ndAcr (GE) vs Tullius (Reds) (3/17/2011 8:11:47 PM)


I usually send 11th army FBD to Dnepropetrovsk.



2ndACR -> RE: German Folly 2ndAcr (GE) vs Tullius (Reds) (3/17/2011 8:42:17 PM)

It will angle that way, I am doing all I can to get rail to the Dnepr and then it will angle down that way.

The 1.04 changes are going to take some serious strategy thinking when it comes out with the fort building being tied to supply lines etc. Russian will never have a serious issue, but the Germans may have to pull way back so they can fort build. Or the Russian will not have issues until they go on the offensive all the time.

Only issue I always see is there is no straight road line down south unlike in the AGN and AGC areas. I can have rail near Pskov around turn 6 or so and the same in AGC area. But Kiev takes forever.



2ndACR -> RE: German Folly 2ndAcr (GE) vs Tullius (Reds) (3/18/2011 2:56:37 AM)

Turn 9

In the far north, 1st Panzer has swung back to Pskov. I think I drew enough of a response up there that his Pskov front weakened just enough. Pskov falls and is occupied.

1st Panzer is tired and needs a rest, but no rest for the wicked. I have run them hard.

[image]local://upfiles/9971/51F32383750F448CAAAE8B21F7968970.jpg[/image]



2ndACR -> RE: German Folly 2ndAcr (GE) vs Tullius (Reds) (3/18/2011 3:00:20 AM)

Turn 9 Central 1

Here we have 3rd Panzer blasting a hole and shooting thru it. Since it appears he left this area lightly guarded, I am seriously thinking about heading for the Finnish border. All of 3rd Panzer is now in the Vela Liuka area.

Only problem is I am weak on infantry support here fo a sustained advance. Leningrad may not have been a target, but this lightly defended sector makes it tempting to go for. If he starts pulling back from Pskov and building a line north of 3rd Panzer, they will wheel to the south and head that way.

[image]local://upfiles/9971/3A36F3AC3FB54E42871BBA1D04433021.jpg[/image]



2ndACR -> RE: German Folly 2ndAcr (GE) vs Tullius (Reds) (3/18/2011 3:04:30 AM)

Turn 9 Central Zone 2

Here 2nd Panzer has pulled off the line and shot towards the south. They can safely do that now that 4th Army is fully across the river and can slog forward. Gomel falls and the 6th Army link up should occur in the next turn or 2.

Plans for 2nd Panzer are fluid. Head east and then north to Smolensk or head straight east or do I swing them farther south where there is basically nothing but a weak hedgehog?

That is the million dollar question.

[image]local://upfiles/9971/3AFD2D2716974E0BB57B1E8A4F36117E.jpg[/image]



2ndACR -> RE: German Folly 2ndAcr (GE) vs Tullius (Reds) (3/18/2011 3:09:04 AM)

Turn 9 South

Okay, 1st Panzer advances towards the east and performed HQ build up on all southern Panzer Corps. They are tired and need a rest, but it will have to wait. Goal is Kharkov. I want it and am going to take it.

6th Army is fully engaged and 17th is also fully across the river and moving SE in support of 1st Panzer.

Question, is Kursk or Kharkov more important? I have never looked at the Russian side in any depth so don't really know. He has probably already yanked the industry out anyway.

[image]local://upfiles/9971/4745A5D18F964C8EA854E866C3033832.jpg[/image]



2ndACR -> RE: German Folly 2ndAcr (GE) vs Tullius (Reds) (3/18/2011 3:14:10 AM)

Turn 9 11th Army Zone

Odessa falls. I used 2 German and all the Romanian Corps. I am across the lower Dnepr and in the Crimea, barely. The line is stretched to the max down here until the Romanians can get on the line to secure it for me.

Now the 50 million dollar question is.......WHERE THE HECK IS THE RUSSIAN ARMY????????

Have I hurt him that bad in the south? Are they all up north between me and Moscow, hiding along the Finnish border?

And they really have to tone down the interdiction routine, I suffered huge losses to my mobile forces this turn by hardly any Russian a/c. One Motorized Div suffered 1600 casualties to 12 a/c and then 2 hexes later another 1100 from 5 a/c. Total BS IMO.

[image]local://upfiles/9971/63803D26F1F74CB680A5A42867E67215.jpg[/image]



Sabre21 -> RE: German Folly 2ndAcr (GE) vs Tullius (Reds) (3/18/2011 3:21:25 AM)

Select the city and L-click on the name on the upper right display, it will open the city screen.

Don't forget you can bomb factorys too.



[image]local://upfiles/3042/9DE8C476A940432E960DCE2F22429B68.jpg[/image]



2ndACR -> RE: German Folly 2ndAcr (GE) vs Tullius (Reds) (3/18/2011 3:26:33 AM)

Well, Kharkov is is then. 1st Panzer heads there next turn. 



2ndACR -> RE: German Folly 2ndAcr (GE) vs Tullius (Reds) (3/18/2011 10:42:18 PM)

Well, I see TD updating his AAR, so hopefully the boy will be spared the sacrifice to the Turn gods. But he is not safe until the turn hits the inbox. I have my sharpening kit out and ready for the knives.

But on a more serious note, some strategy issues.

1. Since he now sees only a Infantry Corp along the coast, I expect all those troops to head back to Pskov area. 1st Panzer really needs to come off line for a turn or 2. But hate to do it. I might just leave them on the line but rest in place and let the infantry pound on him some. Idea's?

2. The grand VL area. Even though all of 3rd Panzer is here now, I do not think a shot for the Finnish border is in the cards. Next turn will tell a lot. If he shifts troops from the AGC area to head north then I have to decide what to do. A mass pocket of AGC is tempting. 2nd Panzer is well rested. I could curve 3rd Panzer south and 2nd Panzer north followed by 1st Panzer. All AGS panzer had HQ buildup done last turn. It would be a really long move though. No way to make it happen in 1 turn. But it could force him to pull way back.

3. HQ buildup on 1st Panzer last turn. Was going to push due east and basically just open the entire South up more. No way the infantry are going to get far. I don't even know how far the Panzer's will get. Rail is way behind due to the opening 4 turns and the double pockets.

I was wrong above on rail. AGS rail is still 6 hexes from Kiev. 11th Army is still a long ways from Dnepr. I was thinking about another PBEM game going. AGC south rail is above about 6 hexes from Gomel.

So what does everyone think? Trying to formulate an A or B plan. It is getting to the point where my gut reactions are going to get me into trouble, plus IIRC from previous games, the Russian is about to get a bunch of units soon.



Klydon -> RE: German Folly 2ndAcr (GE) vs Tullius (Reds) (3/18/2011 11:17:11 PM)

I have been reading both sides, so I want to be careful here (as I have been in TD's) about inadvertently letting something slip. I do think it is fair (and very obvious) of a big cat and mouse game going between you and TD, which makes it interesting for those of us watching both sides. [:D]

For you, I think you are starting to run out of time and must come to a decision if you are going to stick with your "south first" strat or not. If you change it up, then you need to decide in what form it is going to change. The other thing to consider is what are your priorities? If it is destruction of the Red Army, then you got plenty in the center and north and not so much in the south from what the maps have been showing. If you are after a geographical objective, that is a different matter as killing Russian units and a geographical objective may or may not be compatible with each other.

Whatever decision you come to will be fun viewing for all of us watching this AAR. [:)]



Mynok -> RE: German Folly 2ndAcr (GE) vs Tullius (Reds) (3/19/2011 12:57:48 AM)


Same here, but I will say one thing in response to this quote:

quote:

WHERE THE HECK IS THE RUSSIAN ARMY????????


You don't do enough recon.



2ndACR -> RE: German Folly 2ndAcr (GE) vs Tullius (Reds) (3/19/2011 1:29:40 AM)

I do a bunch of Recon. There is a large carpet in front of Moscow along the Denpr river. He has a decent amount in the north near Leningrad.

He has a gap right there where 3rd Panzer broke thru, thin line with nothing behind it.

There is very little down south. Every other game I have played even against the AI, there are Russian units dang near everywhere, no matter where I look.

I have been expecting to find a decent line forming somewhere in the south, but nothing really to note. The Crimea is hardly nothing.

But yes, I have to decide my next major move. I am seriously thinking about heading north and and south and going for a pocket in his center. I can shift 6th Army towards the north to help close things up some. Even if I cannot close the pocket in 2 turns, he will have to come out of his forts to get away. I can keep 17th Army advancing to the east.



Mynok -> RE: German Folly 2ndAcr (GE) vs Tullius (Reds) (3/19/2011 2:32:06 AM)


Are your maps before or after recon?



2ndACR -> RE: German Folly 2ndAcr (GE) vs Tullius (Reds) (3/19/2011 2:38:01 AM)

Most are before I fly recon and airlift fuel. Bad habit that is hard to quit. Sort of like smoking. LOL

I got in the habit of doing some recon, making moves, taking screen shots, flying in fuel, and then final recon.



Mynok -> RE: German Folly 2ndAcr (GE) vs Tullius (Reds) (3/19/2011 2:45:23 AM)


Well....I can say no more than that you are missing stuff with your recon.



2ndACR -> RE: German Folly 2ndAcr (GE) vs Tullius (Reds) (3/20/2011 12:30:58 AM)

Turn 10

Well, fuel is my major hold up. Rail repair is crawling along. Fuel is low across the board. To critical actually. Airlift cannot keep up with demand.

TD is launching some counter attacks now. I think I saw 5. Just about all were successful. My guys are tired. But we shall keep up the advance.

In the north, 18th, 2nd Army beats back the Russians, 1st Panzer closes up and crawls forward. Pink Army continues clearing the swamps towards the lake. Now, 3rd Panzer had 2 units isolated last turn, but the reserve Panzer Corp beat back his lead elements and restored order. Recon shows he is forming a line to the east and to the north. So now I must decide where to go, North or sweep down towards the Center.

[image]local://upfiles/9971/2E252C95E91A46EAAFC978C4286E32F3.jpg[/image]



2ndACR -> RE: German Folly 2ndAcr (GE) vs Tullius (Reds) (3/20/2011 12:32:22 AM)

And the Shot of 3rd Panzer area. North or South East? Fuel is my main concern. Plus the lack of Infantry to secure my flanks.

[image]local://upfiles/9971/97665787F9A6424D891DB7BD66BB084C.jpg[/image]



2ndACR -> RE: German Folly 2ndAcr (GE) vs Tullius (Reds) (3/20/2011 12:47:42 AM)

Center is almost static right now so no screen shots. Small advances with Infantry, but a hex here and a hex there.

South is another matter. TD moved his factories out of Kharkov. 17th Army will continue the advance east. 1st Panzer starts heading NE to link with 2nd Panzer Army. I have to open the center and there are a bunch of Russians along the river area. So all armor will head NE and force him to come out of his forts.

Rail is nearing Gomel and Kiev. Cannot move fast enough for me. I need it closer.

11th Army crosses into the Crimea area and slowly advances. Recon shows weak forces except in the bottle neck, he has triple stacks there.

[image]local://upfiles/9971/6F434935777C47B9942FC16CCAB5E6CE.jpg[/image]



2ndACR -> RE: German Folly 2ndAcr (GE) vs Tullius (Reds) (3/20/2011 12:49:25 AM)

I could not resist running the southern panzer farther north and displacing a bunch of airfields, it gained me about 120 tons of fuel. Will have to save him next turn though.



2ndACR -> RE: German Folly 2ndAcr (GE) vs Tullius (Reds) (3/20/2011 8:53:48 PM)

Turn 11

TD pulled back big time near Leningrad. I mad a large surge forward. Recon is showing fairly weak forts. Weird. The 2 infantry Corps along the coast begin advancing. 1st Panzer shoots north. He abandoned the swamp south of the lake.

Guess he fears the right hook or did not want to see them pocketed.

[image]local://upfiles/9971/0420DFC4F362460794018EE8DCB9798A.jpg[/image]



2ndACR -> RE: German Folly 2ndAcr (GE) vs Tullius (Reds) (3/20/2011 8:56:16 PM)

Turn 11

Here we have 3rd Panzer continuing towards the north. Object here is to lure as many of his troops north as I can. Supply lines are an issue up here though.

Infantry continue to secure my flank. But at least now I only really have 1 true flank to worry about instead of both sides. If he would have stayed in the swamps, I would have had to halt my advance due to lack of infantry support.

[image]local://upfiles/9971/909F9C9ACBAE43EFA41CF4B52A6FB83C.jpg[/image]



2ndACR -> RE: German Folly 2ndAcr (GE) vs Tullius (Reds) (3/20/2011 8:57:44 PM)

Turn 11

The almost static Central front. Small advances are made but nothing major.

[image]local://upfiles/9971/4A8BE1E35C0C49568EA2807F70104DAB.jpg[/image]



2ndACR -> RE: German Folly 2ndAcr (GE) vs Tullius (Reds) (3/20/2011 8:59:39 PM)

Turn 11

Here we have the south side of the Central Zone. AGC and AGS have completed the link up.
2nd Panzer starts to swing towards the north. 1 Panzer Corps is outside Kursk. Infantry will take up that cause next turn.

[image]local://upfiles/9971/3733334D52AB4413888D4FA5308E299C.jpg[/image]



2ndACR -> RE: German Folly 2ndAcr (GE) vs Tullius (Reds) (3/20/2011 9:01:38 PM)

Turn 11

Here we have 6th Army advancing eastward. 17th Army continues moving east. 1st Panzer shifts direction again and moves towards Kharkov. Recon last turn showed no factories left, this time I saw some. Damn FOW.



[image]local://upfiles/9971/487933F77C81464393BED8E3EB586FF7.jpg[/image]



2ndACR -> RE: German Folly 2ndAcr (GE) vs Tullius (Reds) (3/20/2011 9:02:33 PM)

Turn 11

And another shot of the Southern front, no major advances made, but starting to find some enemy forces.

[image]local://upfiles/9971/F36AD3077186405FBA4E246C50EB1EF1.jpg[/image]



2ndACR -> RE: German Folly 2ndAcr (GE) vs Tullius (Reds) (3/20/2011 9:04:08 PM)

Turn 11

And finally the Crimea area of operations. 11th Army reaches the first road block. They will get hit next turn and we will see if I can kick them out. Not sure though.

Romanian Army will move due east and secure that flank.

[image]local://upfiles/9971/D849A9C559AE4C65B770BAB1FA058D28.jpg[/image]



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