1.04.10 Fulkerson vs Zort ( Buzz ) (Full Version)

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larryfulkerson -> 1.04.10 Fulkerson vs Zort ( Buzz ) (4/21/2011 3:34:45 AM)

Buzz and I started a campaign game using 1.04.10 and here's the turn 1 front lines before the Soviet moved anything.


[image]local://upfiles/16287/9ABA67F671584739B06F05BDC67093B1.gif[/image]



larryfulkerson -> RE: Fulkerson Soviet vs Zort Axis ( Buzz ) (4/21/2011 3:35:33 AM)

Here's the Soviet air losses for turn 1:

[image]local://upfiles/16287/E2ADAB18D99843ABB00AA8BEC2B5F881.gif[/image]



larryfulkerson -> RE: Fulkerson Soviet vs Zort Axis ( Buzz ) (4/21/2011 3:36:04 AM)

Here's the Soviet units that were destroyed:

[image]local://upfiles/16287/2CBAE70EFD8E40B38EB9EB023F81CC96.gif[/image]



larryfulkerson -> RE: Fulkerson Soviet vs Zort Axis ( Buzz ) (4/21/2011 3:37:01 AM)

Here's the front lines after the Soviet moves:

[image]local://upfiles/16287/4D52DC0554774C12991B90C9A383B8D4.gif[/image]



hfarrish -> RE: Fulkerson Soviet vs Zort Axis ( Buzz ) (4/21/2011 2:31:18 PM)

I will be very interested to see how this one plays out, having played Zort twice with me as the Soviets, once with the original game and once with the 1.03 series of patches. We jointly called off the first game in mid 42 and the second at blizzard of 41, the first because the Germans clearly had no chance post blizzard and the second due to the pending major 1.04 changes and general burnout (as well as my irritation with armaments issues for the Soviets).

If you keep posting I'll try to offer guidance as I can. We are currently in a very fun 42 game where the momentum has shifted to him as the Soviets and I am trying desperately to stave off disaster...



larryfulkerson -> 1.04.10 Fulkerson Soviet vs Zort Axis ( Buzz ) (4/21/2011 7:21:13 PM)

This is my third game against Buzz. He won the first two with me as Soviets and we started a '42 -> '45 game but aborted it due to the patch coming out. This game I'm the Soviets again and Buzz is off to a really good start again. Maybe I'm learning something about how to play the Soviet side........but maybe Buzz is just a really good Axis player.



hfarrish -> RE: 1.04.10 Fulkerson Soviet vs Zort Axis ( Buzz ) (4/21/2011 8:05:34 PM)

Oh yeah...a couple of pointers. The troops you have lined up from Rovno to Tarnopol are asking to be encircled...easily. If you can't form a layered defense its probably not worth doing, aside from a token couple of weak units to sit on his mobile forces and eat MPs (which it looks like you are doing. In the North and Center its harder for me to say what you have at your disposal and what is frozen. I would also start getting the line facing Romania pulled back. It's a huge line you won't really be able to defend - some guys like to build a defense around Odessa to tie things up since Odessa's a port and guys will rout out of it instead of surrendering. You're probably better off on the Dnestr, although even here you will need to be ready to pull out asap if you can't put a layered front together. Focus should be on (a) delaying him long enough to build a Dnepr line without (b) sacrificing all your guys to pointless encirclements. Generally I would leave up weaker units while pulling stronger units back, although others might have a different view.

In terms of reserves, your near-term problem is getting the Gomel - Mogilev - Smolensk landbridge defenses built up, since the AGC encirclements generally annihilate everything you had to stop him from getting there. a 3-layer defense on the landbridge leading to a 2-layer down the Dnepr should hold him up for a while.



hfarrish -> RE: 1.04.10 Fulkerson Soviet vs Zort Axis ( Buzz ) (4/21/2011 8:42:51 PM)


Also, I will say that Buzz is a great opponent to have but I wouldn't necessarily live in terror. If you do some of the basics (layered defenses, keeping units on his mobile forces, building RR construction units like crazy where you are building your rear defenses) you stand a pretty good chance of stopping him. No knock on his play, its just really hard to do really well as the German, even against the AI - so if you can limit the mistakes you stand a pretty good chance of at least not losing (even if you don't win outright).



Ridgeway -> RE: 1.04.10 Fulkerson Soviet vs Zort Axis ( Buzz ) (4/21/2011 9:32:24 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: hfarrish

Oh yeah...a couple of pointers. The troops you have lined up from Rovno to Tarnopol are asking to be encircled...easily. If you can't form a layered defense its probably not worth doing, aside from a token couple of weak units to sit on his mobile forces and eat MPs (which it looks like you are doing. In the North and Center its harder for me to say what you have at your disposal and what is frozen. I would also start getting the line facing Romania pulled back. It's a huge line you won't really be able to defend - some guys like to build a defense around Odessa to tie things up since Odessa's a port and guys will rout out of it instead of surrendering. You're probably better off on the Dnestr, although even here you will need to be ready to pull out asap if you can't put a layered front together. Focus should be on (a) delaying him long enough to build a Dnepr line without (b) sacrificing all your guys to pointless encirclements. Generally I would leave up weaker units while pulling stronger units back, although others might have a different view.

In terms of reserves, your near-term problem is getting the Gomel - Mogilev - Smolensk landbridge defenses built up, since the AGC encirclements generally annihilate everything you had to stop him from getting there. a 3-layer defense on the landbridge leading to a 2-layer down the Dnepr should hold him up for a while.


From my limited experience, I would agree with this.

One other thing is that he did not isolate the Lvov pocket. You may have been able to extricate some of the units in the north of the pocket by railing them down towards Stanislav or driving them toward Tarnopol (where the screen is thin). They probably won't get all the way out on T1, but they have a chance to do so on T2. In particular, I think there are some nice armored units up there that are worth saving. And any units you can extricate will hold him up while you try to form a line behind the Dnieper.



larryfulkerson -> 1.04.10 Fulkerson Soviet vs Zort Axis T2 (4/21/2011 10:34:01 PM)

Here's the turn 2 front lines before any Soviet stuff has moved. Quite a few Soviets are isolated as you can see.

[image]local://upfiles/16287/EA854A4CD4A84BB79408A3BB72226417.gif[/image]



larryfulkerson -> RE: 1.04.10 Fulkerson Soviet vs Zort Axis T2 (4/21/2011 10:40:06 PM)

Here's a display of the turn 2 Soviet units destroyed and some manpower and armament production figures

[image]local://upfiles/16287/E864A96DBBD34DDDB1C87F3CEC089BFD.gif[/image]



larryfulkerson -> RE: 1.04.10 Fulkerson vs Zort T2 (4/21/2011 11:45:13 PM)

Here's a view of the front lines after the Soviet stuff is moved: I evacuated some stuff ( industry ) from Leningrad and Mogilev this turn
'cause it looks like Mogilev is about to be overrun and I know Leningrad is a defijnate target and there's a lot of industry there that needs
to be moved to be saved..... I've been railing units as a priority first and THEN evacuating industry with what's left over after the rail is
used to move units. In the game FITE ( using TOAW ) there is no evacuation of industry so if my industry is not saved well, that's the
breaks. I must move the units first because the needs of the front line take priority in my mind.

[image]local://upfiles/16287/DAB056C8347B4F0A97AC0B405DD3B3A6.gif[/image]



hfarrish -> RE: 1.04.10 Fulkerson Soviet vs Zort Axis T2 (4/22/2011 12:03:30 AM)

Curiosity question - why disband a tank and a motorized division?



Jajusha -> RE: 1.04.10 Fulkerson Soviet vs Zort Axis T2 (4/22/2011 12:08:55 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: hfarrish

Curiosity question - why disband a tank and a motorized division?


Trucks i guess? Or maybe they where in a position that was going to be encircled with no hope to be released.



Klydon -> RE: 1.04.10 Fulkerson Soviet vs Zort Axis T2 (4/22/2011 12:23:50 AM)

Some of those disbanded tanks and motorized divisions are done by the AI as a result of combat (chance they will disband if routed). You will also see the same thing on occasion for the border guard units as well. What Jajusha also mentioned is true. Disbanding tank/mech divisions for trucks is something you can also do, especially if it appears they may not get away in the long term. Some tank divisions will also have T34/KV1 models that you want back in your pool as well. Be aware that for tank and mech units that while there are some benefits of disbanding them, if you do so, then they don't "convert" to tank brigades and regular rifle divisions. (This starts happening at some point in the summer where tank divisions and mech divisions will simply get turned into brigades and infantry units respectively).

For this AAR, I would be getting those Russian units in the Courland area out via the port there. (area west of Riga). You can sea lift those guys out and they can live to fight another day.

I also recommend getting someone in Tallinn. While it does not appear this particular opponent is well versed in using the Kriegsmarine to his advantage, some others will have no trouble at all running some unit up there to capture it and the next thing you know, you have an infantry corps in a place you never suspected one would show up at that fast.



Slayer_of_kings -> RE: 1.04.10 Fulkerson Soviet vs Zort Axis T2 (4/22/2011 12:37:26 AM)

Larry,

I know you've been playing FIRE IN THE EAST for years, I've followed your great AARs, just wondering what your assessment of WitE is in comparison with the aforementioned. Is it like
zooming in a Ferrari when you've been clunking along in a VW Bug for years?


Michael C



hfarrish -> RE: 1.04.10 Fulkerson Soviet vs Zort Axis T2 (4/22/2011 1:22:20 AM)

On this one, can't reiterate enough how critical it is to start getting units into the Smolensk landbridge and on the Dnepr in front of Mogilev and Gomel...also it's imperative to get a unit garrisoning Pskov. Are all those rear area units still frozen?



larryfulkerson -> 1.04.10 Fulkerson vs Zort T2 (4/22/2011 2:33:28 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: hfarrish
Curiosity question - why disband a tank and a motorized division?

The AI did that for me. I had no hand in that decision.


quote:

ORIGINAL: Slayer_of_kings
I know you've been playing FIRE IN THE EAST for years, I've followed your great AARs, just wondering what your assessment of WitE
is in comparison with the aforementioned. Is it like zooming in a Ferrari when you've been clunking along in a VW Bug for years?
Michael C

So um...........the turns are weekly instead of 1/2 weekly and so the game moves a lot faster. And I've noticed a decided urge to entrench all my units when they arrive at their destination hexes. LOL. I think the graphics are a lot better in WITE than TOAW and I miss all those fixed airfields all over the place instead of airfields we can now move to where they need to go. I guess I need to re-think what an airfield is in reality.......just a dirt strip in the middle of a field somewhere.....maybe with smudge pots to light at night for lights along the edge of the runway. And as long as you can chock the wheels you can park a plane just about anywhere I guess. Under trees would be good. The paint job will last longer than it would left out in the sun. Also, I like the AI supply mechanism in WITE instead of TOAW. I now have a reason to try to keep my units together rather than sending any unit to do what's needed reguardless of where that may be. Free support ( in TOAW ) has spoiled me I guess. And the supply radius is actually inforced by the game now. Um....I used to think of playing TOAW as to be getting a BS degree in warfare, but now I think maybe WITE is graduate school for the Eastern Front. Like a masters degree or maybe a Ph D. The learning curve is steep like TOAW but I've read the manual about 5 times now and still refer to it from time to time. For instance, I still am hazy on what kinds of industry you have to evacuate "whole" and which you can evacuate in pieces. I'm thinking you have to evacuate those industries that produce a specific item all at the same time. Like those factories that produce KV-1's (Moscow) or T-50's (Leningrad ). But those industries like Armaments or HI can be evacuated in pieces. I could be wrong. Anyway, I can recognize my position on the map at a glance almost all the time but I haven't tried to memorize it or anything. Long play-time with the same map will do that I guess. I've owned WITE about 5 or 6 weeks now and I'm still amazed to be able to play this thing. It's big-time wargaming dudes. I remember cardboard. This is the game I was born to play I guess.

EDIT: Oh, and I miss being able to blow bridges and having your opponent have to re-build them. But I realize that weekly turns allows the abstraction of that process so....




larryfulkerson -> RE: 1.04.10 Fulkerson Soviet vs Zort Axis T2 (4/22/2011 2:35:59 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: hfarrish
On this one, can't reiterate enough how critical it is to start getting units into the Smolensk landbridge and on the Dnepr in front of Mogilev and Gomel...also it's imperative to get a unit garrisoning Pskov. Are all those rear area units still frozen?

I'm pretty sure I've moved everybody that could still move. There's lots of units that are yes, still frozen in place. Too bad too 'cause I could use another unit or two in some places.

I figured it out just a minute ago.......I'm playing five opponents at the same time ( KLilly, Zort, Aoline, Gerald Pelton, and Dave something, although I still have not gotten a turn from Dave. ).



larryfulkerson -> 1.04.11 Fulkerson vs Zort T3 (4/22/2011 8:23:20 PM)

Here's the early turn 3 front lines before I've moved any Soviet stuff:

[image]local://upfiles/16287/9344629954D64EBAAF8F9ECE757078D5.gif[/image]



larryfulkerson -> RE: 1.04.11 Fulkerson vs Zort T3 (4/22/2011 8:24:07 PM)

Here's the OOB for the start of turn 3:

[image]local://upfiles/16287/0804125BB34144B3BA79DDC72C95B933.gif[/image]



larryfulkerson -> RE: 1.04.11 Fulkerson vs Zort T3 (4/22/2011 8:24:36 PM)

Here's the production figures for the start of turn 3:

[image]local://upfiles/16287/A1632A5794B34C0C998D1663C1525CD1.gif[/image]



larryfulkerson -> RE: 1.04.11 Fulkerson vs Zort T3 (4/22/2011 8:25:15 PM)

Here's a list of the destroyed Soviet units as of turn 3:

[image]local://upfiles/16287/D8AD834A2EE84AF197B69F6B811C7191.gif[/image]



hfarrish -> RE: 1.04.11 Fulkerson vs Zort T3 (4/22/2011 8:58:29 PM)

I would get those units in the Baltics South of Talinn out of there and up to the swamps in the 3 hex bridge. 3 units will do it for the most part and it frees up the rest of those guys, along with your Leningrad units, to start building some defenses from Novgorod north along that river that runs to the Baltic. You will probably want to start moving your units facing the Finns out now to the no-attack lines as well, this will free up substantial units. Some would call it gamey (and maybe it is) but you can leave the weakest units along the no-attack line; as long as a warm body is there you can hold it.

In the center you are still hurting along the Dnepr, so if any units are free to go there, I'd send them.

In the South, I would make sure to get some units to that area in front of Vinnitsa, since if he gets through there he could really put the hurt on your Dnestr line (in our first game, which was my first game period, he really caught me hard there and did a good encirclement). If those guys look threatened at all I would pull them back to the Vishny Bug. Nothing there seriously worth holding.

Finally, that concentration you have East of Rovno is going to be a fat target for him - he may even send some AGC panzers south behind them to link up and bag a huge number of units. I would definitely consider pulling this group back to Sluch to start forming some defenses there. He will always be able to move faster, farther than you think he can, although it also looks like you are doing a good job keeping guys on the mobile units, which will help.

Good luck...hope the advice is helpful and not just stating the obvious that you already know.



larryfulkerson -> RE: 1.04.11 Fulkerson vs Zort T3 (4/22/2011 10:12:50 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: hfarrish
I would get those units in the Baltics South of Talinn out of there and up to the swamps in the 3 hex bridge.

Good idea.

quote:

ORIGINAL: hfarrish
...start building some defenses from Novgorod north along that river that runs to the Baltic.

Okie dokie.

quote:

ORIGINAL: hfarrish
You will probably want to start moving your units facing the Finns out now to the no-attack lines as well, this will free up substantial units. Some would call it gamey (and maybe it is) but you can leave the weakest units along the no-attack line; as long as a warm body is there you can hold it.

I was thinking of maybe parking the paratroops there. They aren't worth much in terms of construction and besides being used as a roadblock they seem much more valuable as s place holder there on the Finn/Leningrad line.

quote:

ORIGINAL: hfarrish
In the South, I would make sure to get some units to that area in front of Vinnitsa, since if he gets through there he could really put the hurt on your Dnestr line (in our first game, which was my first game period, he really caught me hard there and did a good encirclement). If those guys look threatened at all I would pull them back to the Vishny Bug. Nothing there seriously worth holding.

Good idea.

quote:

ORIGINAL: hfarrish
Finally, that concentration you have East of Rovno is going to be a fat target for him - he may even send some AGC panzers south behind them to link up and bag a huge number of units. I would definitely consider pulling this group back to Sluch to start forming some defenses there. He will always be able to move faster, farther than you think he can, although it also looks like you are doing a good job keeping guys on the mobile units, which will help.

Yeah, thanks.



larryfulkerson -> 1.04.11 Fulkerson vs Zort T4 (4/25/2011 11:03:17 PM)

Here's the front lines for turn 4 before any Soviet stuff is moved:

[image]local://upfiles/16287/35FD528EB6E5445AA107C82361390FB8.gif[/image]



larryfulkerson -> RE: 1.04.11 Fulkerson vs Zort T4 (4/25/2011 11:04:24 PM)

Here's the air losses for both sides:

[image]local://upfiles/16287/F97B719BBCF14F54BD736322F97C0B76.gif[/image]



larryfulkerson -> RE: 1.04.11 Fulkerson vs Zort T4 (4/25/2011 11:04:52 PM)

Here's the destroyed Soviet units as of turn 4:

[image]local://upfiles/16287/52B26BAA77D94F25916187B2DCF98A75.gif[/image]



larryfulkerson -> RE: 1.04.11 Fulkerson vs Zort T4 (4/25/2011 11:05:24 PM)

Here's a summary of the ground losses


[image]local://upfiles/16287/274C09BFD5A74FD9976BFBB7BABA2C19.gif[/image]



larryfulkerson -> RE: 1.04.11 Fulkerson vs Zort T4 (4/25/2011 11:05:50 PM)

Here's the OOB figures


[image]local://upfiles/16287/A4F260D1CF5946F58EEA39B7BF51A496.gif[/image]



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