Controversial! What do you dislike the most about DW/DW ROTS? Troll free Zone Please. (Full Version)

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cookie monster -> Controversial! What do you dislike the most about DW/DW ROTS? Troll free Zone Please. (4/21/2011 4:00:02 AM)

I've played this game (DW ROTS) solidly for over 6 weeks now and have a few things which annoy me.

1. I'm always refuelling.

2. I'm always moving troops.

3. The freighters are always slowly moving with no fuel.

4. Everything's reserved for trade and some other mystical reason.

5. The AI can't fight.

6. The save games take about 7 minutes for a late 1400 star galaxy at 90 MB in size.

7. The game crashes quite frequently.

8. There is no difficulty level setting. I know how to boost the AI but I'm looking for a sterotypical EASY/NORMAL/CHALLENGING/HARD/IMPOSSIBLE SETTING

9. Ships don't escape danger very well.

10. Expansion Planner is well slow and clunky. Even with 16GB of RAM.

I know how to play the game now so I'm not really looking for advice just posting my observations.

I wonder what you guys and gals find annoying about the game?

Don't get me wrong I love the game, but sometimes it's a micromangement hell on manual, just to get the best outta the game.



martok -> RE: Controversial! What do you dislike the most about DW/DW ROTS? (4/21/2011 5:12:58 AM)

I really like this game too -- it's easily on my "Top Five 4x Titles of All Time" list -- but yes, there are definitely things that could/should be improved.




quote:

ORIGINAL: cookie monster

6. The save games take about 7 minutes for a late 1400 star galaxy at 90 MB in size.

8. There is no difficulty level setting. I know how to boost the AI but I'm looking for a sterotypical EASY/NORMAL/CHALLENGING/HARD/IMPOSSIBLE SETTING


Of the stuff you mentioned, these two are among the ones that bother me most. The save/load times are ridiculous, and newbies & veterans alike are often (understandably) thrown by the lack of traditional difficulty settings.


Another thing is the whole "other empires are sniping at me even though we're friendly" issue. If I'm on good terms with someone and/or have a peace treaty, it shouldn't even be possible for them to fire on my ships/bases at all. What's especially aggravating is that this problem seems to have been going on for a long time now, but still hasn't been fixed.





cookie monster -> RE: Controversial! What do you dislike the most about DW/DW ROTS? (4/21/2011 5:37:24 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: martok

Another thing is the whole "other empires are sniping at me even though we're friendly" issue. If I'm on good terms with someone and/or have a peace treaty, it shouldn't even be possible for them to fire on my ships/bases at all. What's especially aggravating is that this problem seems to have been going on for a long time now, but still hasn't been fixed.


It's shouldn't be allowed by the game code to fire on ships when your not at war. Unless a number of items meet the programmed criteria.

I just blew up an Ancient Guardians ship by mistake as they are a similiar colour as the Haakonish who I was at war with. You should have to confirm a checkbox to carryout a surprise attack.

There's no mechanism in the editor to regain my reputation with the ancients and I'm not gonna give them money.

I have since changed them to a different colour and will change empires colours when at war to avoid confusion.



Foraven -> RE: Controversial! What do you dislike the most about DW/DW ROTS? (4/21/2011 6:29:53 AM)

Well, the things i dislike about DW :

-The AIs have no goals; they just react to our actions.
-The AIs are easy to rip off all their tech and money once you get it to trade.
-The Pirates are only a nuisance, they don't grow much stronger over time and are too easy to find late game.
-Making war is a pain due to how logistics is handled (ie poorly).
-Designing ships is fun, updating them is a pain (due to unwanted weapons and devices swap).
-The AI's designs don't adapt to what we are using.
-The game don't support specialized designs (you have to manually build them and make sure they are not retrofitted with different designs).
-Fighting is mostly optional (we can make peace with everybody, anytime).
-The advisers are annoying, following their advices usually cause more troubles than it is worth.
-There is no way to set notes for planets or area of interests (that i know of that is).
-Making war becomes even more troublesome when we have aliens on our planets; they likes to revolt if we attack their species.
-Knowing where our ships and stuff are is often a pain.
-When the advisers suggest a mission, it doesn't give enough infos to make a proper decision (like the state of the fleet or the spy skill vs mission difficulty).
-No way to flag an area to be patrolled or protected by our fleets/patrols (like derelicts, world destroyer under repair).
-Getting techs from trade mess up our ship designs, we can't tell what techs we want to be used or not in auto designed ships/stations.
-Explorers explore in an annoyingly random fashion, often overlooking systems close by for far away ones.

Well, that's all i can think of right now, probably could add a few more...




Data -> RE: Controversial! What do you dislike the most about DW/DW ROTS? (4/21/2011 6:59:48 AM)

For me as well, saving / loading times take all the places atm. Some of the other stuff I can bypass or workaround but with this one there's nothing we can do.



J HG T -> RE: Controversial! What do you dislike the most about DW/DW ROTS? (4/21/2011 7:37:45 AM)

Interesting topic.

My main gripes are the basic ones:

AI is still too easy to overpower and it's also exploitable in many ways; Ship designs are medicore at best, AI don't have clear objectives, you can bribe even your nemesis to peace etc. etc.
As one reviewer from local magazine said, the AI just fiddles when it should be doing.

The AI needs to say "NO" in certain situations, no matter the money you are offering. For example, you are playing as humans and try to buy Dhayuuts into imposing trade sanctions against Sluken. They will not do it because they don't like flesh-sacks and like Sluken, no matter what you are paying them.

Even though I'm peaceful player in DW I still agree that it's too easy to make alliances with everybody. Some races should not be able to make more than free trade agreements or non-aggression pacts.
As a small defence, Alexs Super AI mod gave the AI a nice boost. It just didn't fix the bad ship desings.

Diplomacy needs work, related to AIs behaviour. More options.
Explorers and exploration AI needs to be fixed so the AI empires don't fall behind the player so easily.
Pirates indeed need a boost so they adapt to players and AI empires level of development.

So, in short, my only real problems currently are the AI, diplomacy, explorers and pirates. Other things I've learned to live with.

And, as others have said, I love the game despite its problems. It's a rough diamond in my eyes. The only thing it needs is some careful cutting.



Data -> RE: Controversial! What do you dislike the most about DW/DW ROTS? (4/21/2011 7:42:34 AM)

Aye, we agree as well [:)]



sbach2o -> RE: Controversial! What do you dislike the most about DW/DW ROTS? (4/21/2011 7:48:43 AM)

hmm..

1. Population growth model where growth depends on tax, mainly (kills the game).

2. Slow Ships & Bases and Expansion Planner dialogs.


That's more or less it. The rest is peanuts.



adecoy95 -> RE: Controversial! What do you dislike the most about DW/DW ROTS? (4/21/2011 7:52:12 AM)

time does not seem to be consistent.

planets grow extremely slowly

ships build very quickly

income arrives super fast

extractors gather slowly

fuel gets eaten quickly

invasions are done in a flash

advances in tech is also fast even at lowest settings


so, time is my biggest issue with the game

other i have.

colonizing takes no commitment, all you have to do i build a colony ship, no long term costs or dependence on the funding/supplies from the homeworld. spam away!

resort bases dont work as intended, i cant point to any one thing, but something about them just cant be right.

the bonus income screen is too erratic, its like it wants to average out a month of income every 5 days based on the last 5 days, instead of a more stable average to base it on.

races don't feel very special or unique.

the bonuses on the shakturi and mechanoids homeworlds are way too extreme, as is the bonus from the hidden governments. i can understand why the shakturi might need the 200% bonus to income to make them dangerous, as with the mechanoids bonus too. but why in the world is it in the game in a way the player can get its hands on it.

that's all i can think of right now.

i love the game, but it could use some more work.



Shark7 -> RE: Controversial! What do you dislike the most about DW/DW ROTS? (4/21/2011 2:28:43 PM)

The main problem I have with it is that I can design my ships to be far more powerful than the AI ships, causing an imbalance in my favor and making the AI seem weaker than it really is.

A second problem is that Diplomacy needs a revamp. For example, if I have a MDP with a race and nearly 100 relations, they should not DoW on me because someone else paid/bribed/threatened them into it. Same goes for the AI empires.



Webbco -> RE: Controversial! What do you dislike the most about DW/DW ROTS? (4/21/2011 3:15:35 PM)

A biggie for me: Exploration is boring. A game like this in my opinion should have a ton of stuff not in galactopedia that are one-off finds.

Linked to this, I think resources need to be A LOT rarer...so certain colonies are specifically important and have an individual purpose to the empire (early in game of course).



MartialDoctor -> RE: Controversial! What do you dislike the most about DW/DW ROTS? (4/21/2011 3:51:20 PM)

My big ones currently are AI adjustments.  Just want the AI to start making sense in terms of how it deals with players and others, to have more personality, and to deal with wars more effectively.  Pretty much what you all are saying.

That and the game really, really needs a difficulty level. [8D]

Change those, and fix those strange AI bugs that a few, including myself, have found, and it would be a big step in the right direction.



cmdrnarrain -> RE: Controversial! What do you dislike the most about DW/DW ROTS? (4/21/2011 3:51:45 PM)

Hehe,  I hate to burst your bubble but all of these complaints have been around from the release of the game.  Nor have they been addressed in any meaningful way or likely will be because as the apologist say "extremely limited development staff".

Again this is what going to happen over the next year.  A couple of upgrades claiming to fix bugs which aren't fixed.  You will paid $30 for an expansion which will add a whole host of new bugs and not fix a single major game issue. However, it will come with a new hat so to speak.

None of this can be fixed without the resources to do so.  The developer or Matrix will have to make a real investment in the game before I'm will ever consider doing so again. 

Good luck



Data -> RE: Controversial! What do you dislike the most about DW/DW ROTS? (4/21/2011 4:32:59 PM)

You really have a template for this, I think it's the third time I read the same post from you spread among different threads.



cookie monster -> RE: Controversial! What do you dislike the most about DW/DW ROTS? (4/21/2011 4:56:36 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: cmdrnarrain

Hehe,  I hate to burst your bubble but all of these complaints have been around from the release of the game.  Nor have they been addressed in any meaningful way or likely will be because as the apologist say "extremely limited development staff".

Again this is what going to happen over the next year.  A couple of upgrades claiming to fix bugs which aren't fixed.  You will paid $30 for an expansion which will add a whole host of new bugs and not fix a single major game issue. However, it will come with a new hat so to speak.

None of this can be fixed without the resources to do so.  The developer or Matrix will have to make a real investment in the game before I'm will ever consider doing so again. 

Good luck


I read the patch change list and saw first hand how many bug fixes and adjustments had been carried out.

He personally fixed two bugs of mine, one which was causing CTD's in 5 days and released a minor beta patch.

I don't expect one man to be perfect and the base game is playable in it's current state. Without dare I say constructive criticism how can he know which part of the game needs adjusting.



cmdrnarrain -> RE: Controversial! What do you dislike the most about DW/DW ROTS? (4/21/2011 4:56:52 PM)

I only have to repeat it until you guys figure it out for yourselfs.  Personally, I hope they do make the investment in the game, but the way they are doing it now is unrealistic and disrepectful to the people who have supported the game.




cookie monster -> RE: Controversial! What do you dislike the most about DW/DW ROTS? (4/21/2011 4:58:21 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: cmdrnarrain

I only have to repeat it until you guys figure it out for yourselfs.  Personally, I hope they do make the investment in the game, but the way they are doing it now is unrealistic and disrepectful to the people who have supported the game.




I'm too old for this... Green button for you my friend.



cmdrnarrain -> RE: Controversial! What do you dislike the most about DW/DW ROTS? (4/21/2011 4:59:35 PM)

Hehe the board is full of constructive criticism, but good luck with the majority of your complaints being addressed or the game becoming any more "playable".



cmdrnarrain -> RE: Controversial! What do you dislike the most about DW/DW ROTS? (4/21/2011 5:01:26 PM)

Ouch am hurt, but apparently not old enough to be willing to listen someone else's opinion.



Shark7 -> RE: Controversial! What do you dislike the most about DW/DW ROTS? (4/21/2011 5:21:26 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: cookie monster


quote:

ORIGINAL: cmdrnarrain

I only have to repeat it until you guys figure it out for yourselfs.  Personally, I hope they do make the investment in the game, but the way they are doing it now is unrealistic and disrepectful to the people who have supported the game.




I'm too old for this... Green button for you my friend.


I did that a long time ago. He's a troll...does nothing but complain about what is essentially a great game.

And honestly, people who demand its my way or else are being very disrespectful to the other players who enjoy the game. I don't have the time for such ignorance.

Besides this is Elliotg's game, the fact that he takes any of our suggestions says a lot about his character...most developers don't take the advice of their fan-base at all. Elliot deserves a big "thank you" from us, and deserves to be treated in a respectful manner, which so many of the complainers do not. Constructive criticism (which was the point of this thread) is not disparaging or whiny, and we have to realize we may not get exactly what we want.

Yeah I ranted a little, but it sometimes things need to be said.

Elliot, if you read this, great game and keep up the good work. Most of us truly appreciate DW and the work you've put into it. [&o]



cmdrnarrain -> RE: Controversial! What do you dislike the most about DW/DW ROTS? (4/21/2011 5:52:12 PM)

So when you rant it needs to be said, but when someone else does it, its trolling.  Man you crack me up.   I can't believe you still have a grudge from the last time you started name calling when someone disagrees with you.

So where is your constructive criticism in the post? 



Data -> RE: Controversial! What do you dislike the most about DW/DW ROTS? (4/21/2011 6:17:56 PM)

What I don't understand is your willingness to spend so much time and energy in convincing us that...your ranting here.... If you don't like it don't use it, why is it so important to you if we enjoy it? I'm sure you can find something to enjoy for yourself without wasting your time here.



DMan777 -> RE: Controversial! What do you dislike the most about DW/DW ROTS? (4/21/2011 6:19:37 PM)

I have to say that DW is one of my favorite games of all time.  It, to me, is the epitome of the 4X space game.  But I have to say that the overall performance of the game is fairly disappointing.  Some of the concerns already addressed are the save/load times.  I don't typically play large games (mainly because it's so laggy), so I can't address high-end performance, but just zooming and panning is disturbingly choppy--even from game start.

I've played much more graphically advanced games on my computer, but DW is pretty sorry.  I look at games like Star Ruler or Civ V in full 3D with all the goodies turned up and they play like glass.  After talking it up to a friend, I bought DW for a buddy for his birthday.  After a day or so, I asked him how he liked it and the first thing he said was, "Wow, it's sure choppy."  And his PC is new, high-end kit.

I don't know if the programming language is the problem, because that might limit the ability to fix these issues.  But if the performance could be improved, it would make waiting for the gameplay fixes much more tolerable.

Sorry for the rant, Code Force Crew.  I really do love the game!



kentcol -> RE: Controversial! What do you dislike the most about DW/DW ROTS? (4/21/2011 7:05:05 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Webbco

A biggie for me: Exploration is boring. A game like this in my opinion should have a ton of stuff not in galactopedia that are one-off finds.

Linked to this, I think resources need to be A LOT rarer...so certain colonies are specifically important and have an individual purpose to the empire (early in game of course).



+1



gijas17 -> RE: Controversial! What do you dislike the most about DW/DW ROTS? (4/21/2011 7:36:47 PM)

These type of games are in a nich market. So if we see one come out and that in its self is rare these days, we naturally want it to be perfect. What I see here with this series is a great concept, immersive gameplay and relaxed civ building. Now take Star Ruler which is now at patch 7 something. When released it was more like alpha test than beta. Now its becoming more and more like a truely innovative 4x'r that was advertised. PC gaming is naturally buggy. Look back guys. I've been around awhile and I know games have bugs, etc, etc and even the great one's like Gal Civ 2, Moo, etc have and still have bugs. I will admit the AI could be better but like we discussed in another thread has anyone prefected this yet????? Not to my knowledge and if they have they better share it with the rest of us!

Quote -"There is no way to set notes for planets or area of interests (that i know of that is)"

Comment: Your right. Im asusming you know of this feature from Sword of the Stars series. This is a great concept and that needs to be in more games of this type. DW could really use a "note feature" so Im hoping that "guy" reads this.



Shark7 -> RE: Controversial! What do you dislike the most about DW/DW ROTS? (4/21/2011 7:55:33 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Data

What I don't understand is your willingness to spend so much time and energy in convincing us that...your ranting here.... If you don't like it don't use it, why is it so important to you if we enjoy it? I'm sure you can find something to enjoy for yourself without wasting your time here.


Seems to me that most people on this forum do enjoy it. I honestly have no idea why people who don't feel compelled to come here and endlessly complain. It's something I will never understand to be honest...when I don't like something I don't spend all my time complaining about it, I've got better things to do...like actually playing DW. [;)]



Data -> RE: Controversial! What do you dislike the most about DW/DW ROTS? (4/21/2011 8:14:47 PM)

quote:

like actually playing DW.


Don't say that, you'll activate him again....enjoying DW, how can that be? [:D]



cmdrnarrain -> RE: Controversial! What do you dislike the most about DW/DW ROTS? (4/21/2011 8:58:55 PM)

Sheez, these posts are the most exciting thing to happen on this board in months, you should be thankful.  Which is a sad statement by itself.

If you don't squeek you won't get any grease.  If the developer isn't willing to invest more into the game then it will continue to quietly die as it is now.  Don't believe me, check the board again in a couple of months and see if the same people are posting anything.  Yes Data, I realize you still will probably being posting so no need to response. 

One thing will shut me up, however... a $90 refund.



adecoy95 -> RE: Controversial! What do you dislike the most about DW/DW ROTS? (4/21/2011 9:43:15 PM)

dunno why you think that the developers need motivation, to make a game these days takes years, they are not going to pour that much time into a game and then go all dun!

and they haven't, the patches have been extensive, and if the development team is as small as you say it is, it makes it even more surprising.



Data -> RE: Controversial! What do you dislike the most about DW/DW ROTS? (4/21/2011 10:23:07 PM)

I think 90$ is a small price to pay to end your suffering....but you should really move on even if you don't get a refund

quote:

these posts are the most exciting thing to happen on this board in months


that's plain ignorance



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