RE: 1.04 The Wolf and the Bear (no Gids) (Full Version)

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Tarhunnas -> RE: 1.04 The Wolf and the Bear (no Gids) (7/17/2011 7:30:28 AM)

The rest of the southern part of the front. Slowly pulling back to the Don.

[image]local://upfiles/37384/09D7D37448EA4C16A92A33189FB71946.jpg[/image]



Tarhunnas -> RE: 1.04 The Wolf and the Bear (no Gids) (7/17/2011 1:35:05 PM)

Turn 78. December 10 1942. Snow/Blizzard.

The Soviets are pushing hard at Tambov. The have opened a supply route to their encircled tank corps. I weary of trying to encircle them, so I rout them out instead! They will not be themselves for a while at least!

[image]local://upfiles/37384/BBF7E4C02359417A9BE6A10B6D359A12.jpg[/image]



Tarhunnas -> RE: 1.04 The Wolf and the Bear (no Gids) (7/17/2011 1:42:27 PM)

As the Soviets seem intent on encircling Tambov, I lay a trap. I feign relative weakness in opposite Tambov, while the bulk of 3d and 4th Panzer Armies are moved into place on the flanks, hopefully hidden behind hungarians and infantry. It might be possible to pull a real surprise on the Reds here...

The Soviets are goaded with some proaganda about the German soldier never giving up what he has taken, especially at Tambov, and now we'll see what happens...[sm=00000622.gif]

[image]local://upfiles/37384/52ED8E388126477EA118ED73349C135B.jpg[/image]



Klydon -> RE: 1.04 The Wolf and the Bear (no Gids) (7/17/2011 2:47:05 PM)

Nice. This should be interesting there. [:)]



bigbaba -> RE: 1.04 The Wolf and the Bear (no Gids) (7/17/2011 3:02:36 PM)

nasty.:)

but like we say in germany:

everything is allowed in love&war.

if you get his bes troops in the bag then the war seems to be over once and forever.



Tarhunnas -> RE: 1.04 The Wolf and the Bear (no Gids) (7/17/2011 6:55:03 PM)

Turn 79. December 17 1942. Blizzard.

Evil plan #1 worked as well as could be expected! The main difficulty was the weather. With blizzard, move distances are severely limited. Still, most of the Soviet elite units are cut off. Some of them will be easy to free, but the blizzard will hinder Soviet relief attempts too, and next turn, I will be able to close the bag more effectively... Map after Axis moves.

[image]local://upfiles/37384/74B15271D9C4428A9D675F61CB05A0F4.jpg[/image]



Klydon -> RE: 1.04 The Wolf and the Bear (no Gids) (7/17/2011 6:58:39 PM)

Backhand blow in another spot. [:D]

Nice job!



Tarhunnas -> RE: 1.04 The Wolf and the Bear (no Gids) (7/17/2011 9:48:07 PM)

Turn 80. December 24 1942. Snow.

The Soviets have somehow brought up the reinforcements to break my encirclements and cut off my spearheads! This is a great fight! I believe we will pravail in the end, but it will take more heavy fighting! Map before Axis moves.

[image]local://upfiles/37384/3E0287B747744E90BFF9D19C375606F2.jpg[/image]



Tarhunnas -> RE: 1.04 The Wolf and the Bear (no Gids) (7/17/2011 10:46:08 PM)

Turn 80. December 24 1942. Snow.

The swirling fight around Tambov continues! With a final stroke, code named operation Weihnachtsgeschenk, the OKH believe they have put the death knell to the Soviet offensive. Let's see them wriggle out of this!

[image]local://upfiles/37384/8CF457953BAE4F139879657E59B468B3.jpg[/image]



Tarhunnas -> RE: 1.04 The Wolf and the Bear (no Gids) (7/18/2011 6:29:34 AM)

Losses from turn 80. Not so large, but the balance is solidly in my favor. The Soviet tank corps are clearly getting the worst of the situation.

[image]local://upfiles/37384/79AD634DE9604CC59E135ADC8C135750.jpg[/image]



Q-Ball -> RE: 1.04 The Wolf and the Bear (no Gids) (7/18/2011 2:46:47 PM)

Wow, that Wiennacht-whatever move was AWESOME! I see no escape; you just nailed some of his best units. I think I see 7 Guards Corps in there. That hurts!

I guess he wasn't watching his flanks



Klydon -> RE: 1.04 The Wolf and the Bear (no Gids) (7/18/2011 9:59:43 PM)

That and I would say he doesn't have any reserves in the area left.

That will be ugly to replace for him given his points status trying to replace units.



Lieste -> RE: 1.04 The Wolf and the Bear (no Gids) (7/18/2011 10:31:27 PM)

Nice Christmas present :)



Tarhunnas -> RE: 1.04 The Wolf and the Bear (no Gids) (7/19/2011 9:08:38 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Q-Ball

Wow, that Wiennacht-whatever move was AWESOME! I see no escape; you just nailed some of his best units. I think I see 7 Guards Corps in there. That hurts!

I guess he wasn't watching his flanks


Thanks! It helps that the Soviets are very worn down from previous misfortunes, so the unit density is low. I basically did a Stalingrad in reverse, encouraged a fight for Tambov and reinforced the place just enough to keep it holding out, while building up mobile forces for a counterattack on both flanks. It also helped that I had a spell of snow instead of blizzard, as the movement penalties are lower.

The encirclement isn't exactly watertight though. I haven't had time to open up the next turn yet, so I have yet to see what the Reds have done about it.

BTW, as Lieste points out, Weihnachtsgeschenk means christmas present in German, the name of course comes from the offensive being made on December 24.



bigbaba -> RE: 1.04 The Wolf and the Bear (no Gids) (7/19/2011 2:26:59 PM)

great operation. although the name "weihnachtsgeschenk" is a bit traitorous.:)

if you can destroy this corpse then its maybe game over. he will need months to recover and you can just sit there and dig and dig and dig...



Tarhunnas -> RE: 1.04 The Wolf and the Bear (no Gids) (7/19/2011 4:04:50 PM)

Turn 81. December 31 1942. Blizzard.

The Soviets have managed to open up supply routes to some of their surrounded units. That will not help them in the long run, there will probably be no problem reestablishing the pocket. Map before German moves.


[image]local://upfiles/37384/5169D73FFA0F4C04A2AE9953068A7666.jpg[/image]



Tarhunnas -> RE: 1.04 The Wolf and the Bear (no Gids) (7/19/2011 4:08:34 PM)

Down at the Crimea, the Soviets are staging a little breakout! This is partly made possible by me slowly pulling away troops from what has until now been a quiet area. This threat is not too serious however, and I will concentrate on the Tambov situation.

[image]local://upfiles/37384/AAE70041B4BB4108883328610E24428E.jpg[/image]



Tarhunnas -> RE: 1.04 The Wolf and the Bear (no Gids) (7/19/2011 4:18:35 PM)

It's not that often you nail 35000 reds in one battle! [8D] The self sacrificing efforts of the Soviet air force are also appreciated.

[image]local://upfiles/37384/B0ECB98747514AAEAC34C73B4BFD1F30.jpg[/image]



nedcorleone1 -> RE: 1.04 The Wolf and the Bear (no Gids) (7/19/2011 5:51:45 PM)

This AAR has unfolded like a wet dream for anybody who loves to play the Germans. That being said, I've never played against a human player (yet) and would probably play the SOV at my first attempt when I feel like I've learned enough fundamentals about the game. I only imagine that my first few human encounters would be me playing just like Gid. I have huge respect for him holding out like this even with '42 ending like it did. It will be nice to hear him summarize his thoughts about the game when this is over as I'm very interested in hearing about it.



Klydon -> RE: 1.04 The Wolf and the Bear (no Gids) (7/19/2011 8:34:26 PM)

Nice big bag of artillery with that too. [:)]



Tarhunnas -> RE: 1.04 The Wolf and the Bear (no Gids) (7/19/2011 10:08:47 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: mr_flappypants

This AAR has unfolded like a wet dream for anybody who loves to play the Germans. That being said, I've never played against a human player (yet) and would probably play the SOV at my first attempt when I feel like I've learned enough fundamentals about the game. I only imagine that my first few human encounters would be me playing just like Gid. I have huge respect for him holding out like this even with '42 ending like it did. It will be nice to hear him summarize his thoughts about the game when this is over as I'm very interested in hearing about it.


Yes, Gids is an admirable opponent! Always sending turns promptly, giving notice when he is going to be away, and above all keeping the game up even in adversity!



Tarhunnas -> RE: 1.04 The Wolf and the Bear (no Gids) (7/19/2011 10:23:51 PM)

Turn 81. December 31 1942. Blizzard.

In the dying days of 1942, the follow up offensive, code named Neujahrskonzert, firmly seals the encirclement of several elite Soviet corps. A hole is ripped in the Soviet front, and further advances towards Penza might be possible.

Comment: Personally, I think it is a little to easy to conduct offensives in Blizzard. I could well live with a slight reduction in attack ability for the Germans in the winter of 1942 - 43.



[image]local://upfiles/37384/E9F1CC309E86461FB2FB624495A0166C.jpg[/image]



Q-Ball -> RE: 1.04 The Wolf and the Bear (no Gids) (7/19/2011 10:41:59 PM)

FYI, offensives out of the Crimea won't last long. Without rail connection, units REFIT very very slowly.

I mention this now that I have rail connection to the Crimea in our game...what you didn't know perhaps was that before I had that, my units down there were completely out of gas......

The other thing is that as Soviets, you have to be very careful advancing out of that bottleneck, because you are very vulnerable to a backhand blow that cuts everyone off



Tarhunnas -> RE: 1.04 The Wolf and the Bear (no Gids) (7/19/2011 11:10:20 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Q-Ball

The other thing is that as Soviets, you have to be very careful advancing out of that bottleneck, because you are very vulnerable to a backhand blow that cuts everyone off


Yes, I was thinking something like that. My panzers are busy right now, but come spring and there is a juicy target north of the isthmus...



kevini1000 -> RE: 1.04 The Wolf and the Bear (no Gids) (7/20/2011 2:10:59 AM)

Honestly the Germans are fine for 42-43 blizzard



Flaviusx -> RE: 1.04 The Wolf and the Bear (no Gids) (7/20/2011 2:39:43 AM)

The Germans in the blizzard are indeed fine. The fundamental problem here is the Red Army is beaten. Tarhunnas had more trumps to play. Gids doesn't have the reserves to really press an offensive. He is almost 2 million men short of where he ought to be.

If the Red Army was in good shape, Tarhunnas would have run into a wall of stuff backing up the Red Army spearheads and made no headway -- and gotten crunched by the follow on forces. He actually has more reserves than Gid does. It's a pretty sad situation and quite painful to watch.

So long as Tarhunnas is willing to give ground temporarily and play a mobile defense, he can always defeat the Red Army given the correlation of forces. Indeed, Soviet offensives at this stage just make his job easier, the stuff goes into the Wehrmacht meatgrinder and is chewed up.

Gids should resign here. The game is over, has been over for quite some time.




Fishbed -> RE: 1.04 The Wolf and the Bear (no Gids) (7/20/2011 9:50:43 AM)

I'd love to see the game continue if the conditions for the auto-victory are not met... Tarhunnas has to keep the pressure up for a long time if he wants to survive whatever reinforcements the Soviets will get in the end, anyway, despite their horrible losses, as long as they are not beaten on the victory conditions.

Moreover, Flavius, as a spectator reading a veteran's comments, I do respect your sound advices, but you're resorting to the "game over, you should resign" thing a little bit too often to actually have me enjoying your reading to its full extent. Let them play man, what is beautiful with this game is that you never know what will hit you - and Tarhunnas actually knows that very well. [:D]



Tarhunnas -> RE: 1.04 The Wolf and the Bear (no Gids) (7/20/2011 10:21:48 AM)

Thanks Fishbed!

I did offer Gids to resign just now, and with his permission I will quote his answer here just to show what a fine fellow he is!

quote:

ORIGINAL:  Mail from me to to Gids
If you feel this game is not fun for you anymore, it is ok if you want to resign. I really appreciate that you have been keeping the game up for a long time in a desperate situation, but I don't want you to feel that you are tormented. So if you want to resign its ok with me, or if you want to continue that is fine with me too.


quote:

ORIGINAL:  Answer from Gids
its tormenting and painfull :p but on the other side ,soviets in 1940 -45 couldnt say "i give up",i make the best with what i have,i won 3 games as soviets thanx to XP with your games ,and always germans give up after T20 sometimes 50 and i HATE that,i think theres rarely a GC in the AAR section that is finnished,simply because people say"i give up",my case looks prob the worst simply because the only reason is i dont give up.....,if you play as russians theres a chance you get whacked from left to right ,you cant expect to play a game have 18 bad turns and then 1 victorious rush to berlin ,whats the fun in that,although i keep that offer for resigning in my back head heheheeh





Baelfiin -> RE: 1.04 The Wolf and the Bear (no Gids) (7/20/2011 1:57:30 PM)

Hats off to both of you guys

Enjoy reading the aar and it seems like you guys are having fun blasting away, keep up the good work [:)]



kvolk -> RE: 1.04 The Wolf and the Bear (no Gids) (7/20/2011 5:26:19 PM)

+1



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