RE: Maybe a New AAR (Full Version)

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JAMiAM -> RE: Maybe a New AAR (5/10/2011 1:42:28 AM)

After opening the turn, checking casualties, the logistics report, and running my usual high number of air recon, I switched over the soft factors display from my normal of morale, to fuel. No, I'm not concerned with the level of my fuel, since the Soviets always seem to have plenty after the first couple of turns. I was anxious to find out where PDH had spent for his HQ Buildups. I felt the 4th Panzer Group, near Pskov was a given, and was not disappointed. Scared, perhaps, but knowing what PDH was going to do before he did it, gave me some perverse satisfaction. Now, if I could just muster enough Russian bodies to throw in the way, in order keep him out of Leningrad by turn 5, I would be ecstatic.

This screenshot was taken at the end of the turn, and if you look carefully, you can see the bright green indicators of his Pz Group units fuel. Marx may have insisted that religion is the opiate for the masses, but Stalin orders up some prayers.

[image]local://upfiles/10882/A9B615CC65AE4152A704221F9BB539A8.jpg[/image]



JAMiAM -> RE: Maybe a New AAR (5/10/2011 1:42:43 AM)

Here, in the approaches to Smolensk, the Gateway to Moscow, we see a lot of German mobile units "green-lighted". There looks to be one corps in the red, but otherwise, all mobile units with a high enough detection level to see their soft factors appear to be gassed up and ready to rumble on turn 4. Likewise, this shot was taken at the end of the turn.

[image]local://upfiles/10882/F91D3EC4BDBC40609A3C46300BF7F029.jpg[/image]



JAMiAM -> RE: Maybe a New AAR (5/10/2011 1:42:55 AM)

Here in the South, we see that the 1st Panzer Group isn't getting any love this turn, from the German Quartermaster General. Though PDH ran some air resupply missions, presumably for fuel, the mobile units are sitting in the red, or yellow, at best. This tells me the main thrust for turn 4 will be in the north, so I can continue playing close to the Axis here, as last turn's escapades allowed a little breathing space between my armies and the German infantry divisions coming up from the west. He still has some pocket reduction to accomplish, as well, and that should tie down some Germans for another turn. The pocket is too big to leave strictly for the Axis minors, and besides, PDH likes to move fast, and hit hard. He needs to clear the pocket as soon as possible, and that means sending in the guys who can do it reliably - German infantry.



[image]local://upfiles/10882/F10CB6E66E5F4F95955C7DAA71310E4D.jpg[/image]



PeeDeeAitch -> RE: Maybe a New AAR (5/10/2011 2:48:37 AM)

Turn 4

Reports that nothing could stop me were a bit premature. Here is what I was greeted with upon opening up the game. Mud, all along the front. It hit on the worst turn - right after HQ buildup, with my units just getting back into supply after the turns 1 and 2 dash, the infantry not yet up.

Had JAM had a few extra units, he actually had a chance to kill a couple of mobile units who were no longer in supply due to the extra movement costs of mud. Here is the large view. Circled are the railheads, the FBDs would be slowed this turn as well - mud killed another thing as the plan to use the Baltic Rail Conversion for the northern center supply hit a wall of muck.


[image]local://upfiles/23503/492D71561EBF45F6B71FE25BB393BC4B.gif[/image]



Sabre21 -> RE: Maybe a New AAR (5/10/2011 2:54:59 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: PeeDeeAitch

Turn 4

Reports that nothing could stop me were a bit premature. Here is what I was greeted with upon opening up the game. Mud, all along the front. It hit on the worst turn - right after HQ buildup, with my units just getting back into supply after the turns 1 and 2 dash, the infantry not yet up.

Had JAM had a few extra units, he actually had a chance to kill a couple of mobile units who were no longer in supply due to the extra movement costs of mud. Here is the large view. Circled are the railheads, the FBDs would be slowed this turn as well - mud killed another thing as the plan to use the Baltic Rail Conversion for the northern center supply hit a wall of muck.



Looks like time for Plan B.



PeeDeeAitch -> RE: Maybe a New AAR (5/10/2011 2:57:13 AM)

Turn 4 plans gone awry.

Here is an idealized shot (no mud viewed) taken at the end of the turn that shows what I had before me. I know JAM understands the importance of the Land Bridge, and so I suspected that there were units (probably those slow and offensively poor tank divisions) hiding in the woods. The Dvina was well guarded, but what caught my eye the turn before was the Dnepr bend.

My plan was actually to smash the corner of the Dnepr, and widen that with at least 2 Armor Corps, then use the other two to exploit. All those juicy planes and such in the rear would likely be displaced, and more importantly a whole new axis of advance could be opened and threatened. Sadly, this was not to be. Instead I ended up with what you see here, a couple of clean-ups in the mud and wait.

[image]local://upfiles/23503/42D2AD29DA6A4EB591534568F2A1058F.gif[/image]



PeeDeeAitch -> RE: Maybe a New AAR (5/10/2011 2:58:39 AM)

The north, Muddy turn 4

The north saw some of my biggest frustrations with the mud. Not that units were in danger, but that so many possibilities could not happen. JAM had reinforced the region, likely again with units in the woods again, but I had 4 panzer divisions, 3 motorized division, and the Lehr. I figured I could encircle Pskov, and have units beyond. The infantry by my reckoning, would have been able to reach the nearest units and do stacked hasty attacks that would help free up the panzer corps.

It was not to be. The mud might well have saved Leningrad - each turn is a clock and the terrain there favors the defender who places units well and knows how to build entrenchments.


[image]local://upfiles/23503/2BB10C2F502942C48EB3F9F1D4B048A8.gif[/image]



PeeDeeAitch -> RE: Maybe a New AAR (5/10/2011 3:09:23 AM)

The South

The south was going to be more slogging, but the ace in my sleeve was that the railhead was quite a bit closer to the panzer corps HQs. Given how I ended turn 3, with perhaps 15-20 movement per unit, I expected to see mid-30s MPs for turn 4. The infantry would not be able to help much, except in the back of the panzer protuberance. Still, I figured another 10-12 hexes of bulge would make things uncomfortable...especially if the spectre of two panzer groups descending from the north became a possibility.

I do understand that I did not see all the defenders - mud hides a lot. However, it was only my turn 4, and so I had a feeling that the Soviets were not all that strong.

Again, the overall goal was to keep fluidity, movement, and chaos among the defenders - that should be one overall aim for all German players.


[image]local://upfiles/23503/D7618E5D31294ABFBA86AC57665ACA74.gif[/image]



Klydon -> RE: Maybe a New AAR (5/10/2011 4:18:28 AM)

Suckage on the mud. This is why I think its tough to play with random weather and I say that willing to play either side with fixed weather with no issue at all.

I think its clear the weather model and zones will have to go on the "to do" list at some point as I know it isn't a high priority, but there needs to be something done with it. There are several different options, but some include smaller and more weather zones (getting screwed from Leningrad all the way down into the AGS area in one shot is too much) and also I think something beyond simple mud like having light mud (reduced movement, but not as bad of a combat modifier; this would simulate the actual weather issues the Germans did in fact run into, especially in the south early in the campaign) and then the nasty regular mud we are used to having.

Also curious on what has been moved industry wise so far? Getting an extra turn on that is huge as well.



PeeDeeAitch -> RE: Maybe a New AAR (5/10/2011 4:22:03 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Sabre21
Looks like time for Plan B.


I ditched plan B, and also Plan C - I went straight to Plan Q. Of course, Plan Q is so secret even I do not know the details, but I think prayer is a big part of it.

(for the record, I sound like I whine and bitch and moan, but really I play on because this is a game - life throws enough curveballs, I don't need to make this into something more than it is)



Fishbed -> RE: Maybe a New AAR (5/10/2011 4:36:35 AM)

Well, dunno if that was on purpose, but just for you to know, "plan Q" in French means something like "a good opportunity to have sex". Enjoy the interesting interpretation considering your game... Well if it involves watching girls fighting in the mud, why not [:D]

[image]local://upfiles/18829/E9FC071692294ABFB7B18D18672FBE61.jpg[/image]



JAMiAM -> RE: Maybe a New AAR (5/12/2011 2:45:24 AM)

I'm not going to lie. I sacrificed two chickens and a goat, while dancing nude in my backyard, to entice the rain gods to lend Mother Russia a helping deluge. Okay...maybe just a small lie, but truthfully, it came at a most fortuitous time. PDH's planned offensive would have caught me a turn weaker in terms of replacement absorption, entrenchment, and additional reserve units. Things could have been very ugly. Here is the situation around Pskov at the end of my turn 4.


[image]local://upfiles/10882/76384428992F4E618783996F9F15053B.jpg[/image]



JAMiAM -> RE: Maybe a New AAR (5/12/2011 2:45:38 AM)

Here in the Center, you can see that the Soviets in the landbridge have lived to fight another day, as the Panzers, though fueled up, are mired in the mud. My C&C is improved now, given the big dump of APs coinciding with the arrival of the Reserve Front. However, as I've been spending a lot of APs on getting my crappy Generals replaced with top-notch commanders in the areas most threatened by PDH, as well as disbanding Forts and Corps HQs, I still have some work to do. So...Reserve Front will remain, for now, in reserve.

[image]local://upfiles/10882/2446C4FF7BC54DB1B88AF5E07C6F3D85.jpg[/image]



JAMiAM -> RE: Maybe a New AAR (5/12/2011 2:45:53 AM)

In the South, the 1st Pz Group is likewise mired in the muck. Unlike in the other areas, though, they weren't resupplied by HQ Buildup. Further south, not shown in this picture, the German 11th Army has forced a large bridgehead over the Dnestr River, just east of Kishinev. Along with the 1st Panzer Group, it could potentially begin a double envelopment of my forces along the upper Dnestr, so I have begun withdrawing back to the Yuzhny Bug River.

[image]local://upfiles/10882/4B0F284DDEB1446C864F82DA7BEC64BC.jpg[/image]



Scook_99 -> RE: Maybe a New AAR (5/12/2011 3:40:44 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: 76mm


quote:

ORIGINAL: Sabre21

As James points out though, the tarbaby tactic causing additional mp's is the best reason to do it IMO too.


I've never understood this argument. If you start next to a German unit, doesn't it cost fewer MP for the German to simply hasty attack your adjacent unit than to enter the unit's ZoC (if it were one hex away), and then attack?



It may be better for movement purposes. but your fatigue will rise rapidly, and it consumes supplies, ammunition, and fuel that you won't use if you take the movement penalty.






Scook_99 -> RE: Maybe a New AAR (5/12/2011 3:47:50 AM)

Wow, this game is a deja vu for me. My friend only plays me, and Jam plays exactly like what I am used to. The mud also, is a normal thing. Random weather doesn't feel so random to me, as either 7/2/41, or 7/10/41 the rain shows up. I would ask for both of you to comment as much as possible, maybe I can pick up something I can use. I have yet had an encirclement go unpunished outside of turn 1. Good luck, Aitch, so me what you got.


ps: it would actually make me feel better if things don't go so well for you. At least I know I am not going out of my way to screw up my German Army.



Sabre21 -> RE: Maybe a New AAR (5/12/2011 4:05:56 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Scook_99

Wow, this game is a deja vu for me. My friend only plays me, and Jam plays exactly like what I am used to. The mud also, is a normal thing. Random weather doesn't feel so random to me, as either 7/2/41, or 7/10/41 the rain shows up. I would ask for both of you to comment as much as possible, maybe I can pick up something I can use. I have yet had an encirclement go unpunished outside of turn 1. Good luck, Aitch, so me what you got.


ps: it would actually make me feel better if things don't go so well for you. At least I know I am not going out of my way to screw up my German Army.


In the game I was recently running, random weather didn't show up until turn 8 in one sector and in turn 9 in another. I've also played games as the Soviets where no mud arrived at all until 18 and then on turn 19 one zone was clear...go figure.

There are a few fixes coming though with our new patch that we will begin testing soon that hopefully will make things a bit more unpredictible.



Tarhunnas -> RE: Maybe a New AAR (5/12/2011 6:27:14 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Sabre21

There are a few fixes coming though with our new patch that we will begin testing soon that hopefully will make things a bit more unpredictible.


That sound like great news! It would really be nice to have random weather a little less "wild and crazy".



76mm -> RE: Maybe a New AAR (5/13/2011 3:00:39 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Scook_99

It may be better for movement purposes. but your fatigue will rise rapidly, and it consumes supplies, ammunition, and fuel that you won't use if you take the movement penalty.

My understanding is that the fatigue and other effects are rather slight, and I would rather force the Germans to use as many MP as possible. If I have enough Sov units (and I usually do) I try to put one on each of the pz divisions, etc., especially after a few turns when they might be getting worn out, but I'm not completely convinced that this is the most effective approach. What do other people do?



PeeDeeAitch -> RE: Maybe a New AAR (5/13/2011 1:26:25 PM)

Turn 5, with mud gone at least something could be done. The units were more tired than normal - and the turn of mud made some of the readied movement go away in several of the units, down perhaps 3-6 MP for random armored units.

Given an extra turn, the defenses were even better, and so as I predicted the slogging would start on turn 5 instead of about turn 7 or 8. No matter, it was time.

Here is a shot of two of the "spearhead" divisions, behind the lines, not tarbabied, but because of the mud supply, the next turn of regular supply, and the general mysterious rolls of the dice they are a bit more worn than normal. Ok, a lot more.


[image]local://upfiles/23503/30ED378B53F7469389A671735C05C968.gif[/image]



PeeDeeAitch -> RE: Maybe a New AAR (5/13/2011 1:35:41 PM)

The North.

The Plan for turn 4 was to do a wide swinging encirclement of Pskove with a small direct drive in the hex to the northwest. At 46-49 MP the 7 mobile divisions of the 4th Panzer would have been able to handle this quite well. As it stood, the defenders had bright new level 2 forts, and far more defenders in the swamps than a turn before. What was going to be a sickle cut became a backyard brawl with bricks and bats.

I did manage to isolate a couple of units, and Pskov fell, but nothing was secure. Units in the rough and swamps made 4th Panzer's work tedious. The infantry was up, in parts, and did end the turn at the front - but now the leading edge of the tanks could see the garrisons in the woods north of Pskov. It looks the brawl will last all the way to the gates of Leningrad.

One note, the whole design of the turn 4 sweep was to potentially cut off Leningrad early, unhinging the defenses. The good German player should strive to do this. I have read a lot about how the Germans always face too many dug in defenders. Up until this game I have not, and it is the mud doing that to me. Just shows how vital it is to not lose time.


[image]local://upfiles/23503/8212D926F68344559025A4BFA1599B23.gif[/image]



PeeDeeAitch -> RE: Maybe a New AAR (5/13/2011 1:41:07 PM)

The Center 5

I don't want to moan too much, though that has its part in any wargame. Whining has helped me countless times in face to face to take the focus off of my main threat when I complain that the dice are too shart or that the Diet Dr Pepper is warm.

My attack did go off as I wanted, the Dnepr loop was still the best spot I could see. Recon showed drive slowing units happily dug in the trees north of Smolensk, and a push along the land bridge would leave my tanks funneled between two rivers and likely capped off at the end - a nice, less useful drive.

So I went south east. The river was crossed, though it was tougher. The forts were now level 1 there. One panzer corps to smash the point, another to drop in and get rid of ZOCs, and the eploit. Infantry did help some, though it was not much - this was always going to be a panzer operation with the infantry freeing up the northern tanks if they could.


[image]local://upfiles/23503/AD4079CA70B347B9ACADF48462077F49.gif[/image]



PeeDeeAitch -> RE: Maybe a New AAR (5/13/2011 1:44:32 PM)

South 5

Here, once the mud was gone, the drive was about what I expexted. Still funneled a bit my more entrenchments, the 3 panzers corps drove toward the Lower Dnepr. The goal was the same, turn 4 or 5, unhinge the north-south rivers as much as possible and force the defenders to either fall back or risk encirclement the following turns.

Here, the fatigue was the worst as fewer units could be pulled back. Still, this was always to be the slogging front until help came from the north.


[image]local://upfiles/23503/064F665EBB144408B2B4C35A56DD6865.gif[/image]



PeeDeeAitch -> RE: Maybe a New AAR (5/13/2011 1:48:44 PM)

11th Army turn 5

The 11th Army remains a concentrated force. I use it as a foot-spearhead toward Odessa and points beyond I do not like to worry about the big area between the main force of AGS and 11th Army, that is for the Romanians.

Here, the gates of Odessa have been reached, and the Soviets seem to have left but a token force. The concentrated 11th Army will be needed to smash over the Yuzhny Bug in coming weeks.


[image]local://upfiles/23503/E29D2912E4C0483E8D257E294B4C45BA.gif[/image]



PeeDeeAitch -> RE: Maybe a New AAR (5/13/2011 1:49:52 PM)

Losses thru my half of turn 5

I would guess fairly normal.


[image]local://upfiles/23503/F39E18B6233640C99D4FB898372E8AA0.gif[/image]



timmyab -> RE: Maybe a New AAR (5/13/2011 2:23:52 PM)

Interesting to see what happens when two strong players meet.
After your turn one I think I might have just panicked and bolted for the Urals.[:D]



JAMiAM -> RE: Maybe a New AAR (5/14/2011 3:43:31 AM)

Just to remind our gentle readers that PDH and I are running on a one turn delay in posting screenshots to avoid giving away too much intel. That, more than anything else, probably explains our instances of inspired prescience. So, in response to those teasers where we seem to predict what the other will do, it might be best to NOT think of us as operational geniuses. Rather, it would be better to see us as TV hucksters, keeping your interest on next week's exciting episode...[:D]

Anyhow, since PDH was kind enough this turn to show some zoomed in screenshots, which divulge a bit more intel than usual, I thought it fitting that I return the favor. Besides, this turn was a very interesting turn, with a lot of attacking and counterattacking, so a closer look at the action might help with explaining some of my decisions. This screenshot shows a "clean" look at the situation at the end of my turn 5, in the area around Pskov where some heavy fighting took place. That is, it is not marred by any of the F11 "Show battles sites" details. It should be compared with PDH's screenshot in his post #51.

[image]local://upfiles/10882/764A307AFDC246DD8E2640CC9B45A991.jpg[/image]



JAMiAM -> RE: Maybe a New AAR (5/14/2011 3:43:48 AM)

The following screenshot shows the dirty details of the turn, with the F11 filter on. As you can see, I launched three attacks in this area. Two successful, and one unsuccessful. I also reconverted as many enemy hexes as possible, so that I can do as much as I can to slow the advance of his units next turn on the expected continuation of his push toward Leningrad.

I make no mistake in thinking that my attacks will stop PDH's advance, but they should help slow it. By opening a line of supply to the 5 divisions that were trapped just east of Pskov, I have both cut off three German mobile units, as well as guaranteed that they will either survive another turn to slow down his movement in the area, or get retreated/routed out of pocket on followup attacks.

The losses to the German mobile units will help blunt the tip of PDH's schwerpunkt over time. Every lost battle for these invaluable units is a chance at reducing their morale which, since 1.03 Beta 3, has been much harder to gain than it has been to lose. Especially when they are substantially over the National Morale level, as most of his mobile forces are. Also, since the new refit rules prevent the enhancement of replacement absorption to units adjacent to enemy hexes, his always busy mobile units, being in constant contact with my forces, will rarely be treated to extra replacements. This is another reason that I am so aggressive in maintaining contact with his mobile units over the length of the front.

[image]local://upfiles/10882/E74123E89CFF45F49ED95E2392210162.jpg[/image]



JAMiAM -> RE: Maybe a New AAR (5/14/2011 3:44:06 AM)

The astute reader will probably notice that none of my screenshots are showing the fortification levels of the hexes. Though I'm feeling generous I don't want to give away too much info...[;)]

The following two screenshots, should be viewed in reference to PDH's post #52, as that showed his lines at the end of his turn. Mine, of course, are at the end of my turn. Here in the Center, things got wild and wooly. PDH cracked the Upper Dnepr at its weakest spot, the bend south of Vitebsk. It was not the weakest spot in terms of defenders, but given the number of hexes to attack from, the number of hexes on the opposing bank to clear of ezoc, and the potential for expanding and holding a bridgehead against counterattacks it is, geographically, the weakest part of the major river portion of the line. I should have had stronger units in this area.

With the diversion of the bulk of his two Panzer Groups to the bridgehead area, rather than trying to penetrate the landbridge area, it left me with some interesting choices to make. So, I opted to follow a roughly historical response to the developing problem. No, I didn't get a bottle of vodka down and proceed to get drunk. I launched a series of counterattacks against the German mobile units. In the heavy fighting, I drove back several German Panzer and Motorized Infantry divisions, with relatively favorable loss ratios. Though this will leave me weakened somewhat against his inevitable followup attacks, they again, will continue to whittle away at the strength he can continue to project throughout the campaign. I am taking a long-term look at the results of these battles, even when the losses don't favor me as much as they did this turn.

This is the clean shot.

[image]local://upfiles/10882/EB3479DC1324447BA5EE41B376F7A960.jpg[/image]



JAMiAM -> RE: Maybe a New AAR (5/14/2011 3:44:24 AM)

And the "dirty" shot.

For those interested, of the 8 attacks I launched, 6 succeeded in driving back the defending mobile units. None of the successful attacks here were due to the 1.x:1 > 2.x:1 Soviet attack odds modifier. They all succeeded on their own merits.

[image]local://upfiles/10882/B7274795BBCC40568A6AA154B664069A.jpg[/image]



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