RE: Simple Balancer Fantasy (SBF) Mod (Full Version)

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oldman45 -> RE: Simple Balancer Fantasy (SBF) Mod (6/7/2011 4:18:51 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Gary Childress

Got some new ship art for my mod:

Italian CV Aquila
German CV Graf Zeppelin
German CVL Seydlitz
French CV Joffre
British CV "Adjective" Class (basically an hypothetical earlier version of Ark Royal. I used Big B's Ark Royal as the base model)

[image]local://upfiles/17421/C3C4E51F5E46439C85D154B50D623CFF.jpg[/image]



Are you going to be adding this art work to this thread?

http://www.matrixgames.com/forums/tm.asp?m=2785895



CaptBeefheart -> RE: Simple Balancer Fantasy (SBF) Mod (6/9/2011 9:00:44 AM)

Color me interested in this mod. You guys probably are on this, but JuanG did some great stuff here:

http://www.matrixgames.com/forums/tm.asp?m=2179124&mpage=1&key=AWNT%2CMod�

Some of the ideas for the Enhanced CV Variant are pretty good. BTW--Anybody know what happened to JuanG? He was doing great work then disappeared about a year ago.

Cheers,
CC



traskott -> RE: Simple Balancer Fantasy (SBF) Mod (6/12/2011 5:50:59 PM)

How this project goes ??  [:)]



Halsey -> RE: Simple Balancer Fantasy (SBF) Mod (7/11/2011 12:29:56 AM)

bump...



GaryChildress -> RE: Simple Fantasy (SF) Mod: "Hell in Paradise" (2/18/2012 7:56:15 PM)

OK. I'm back playing around with ideas for this mod again. So far the mod is going to be a "No treaties" mod, meaning the Washington and London naval treaties, nor any treaties of any kind, will be in effect to hinder building. Again, the mod will put emphasis on minimizing mouse clicks = simplicity, and will obviously be based upon an alternative universe and not RL = fantasy. However, I'm going to get rid of the "Balance" part. Basically the Japanese are still going to be the underdogs due to their more limited building potential, however, they do get a jump start in the 1920s with a serious building program for their 8-8 navy. As a result they end up with an 8-8-8 navy (including the Kongos, Fusos and Ises). The war in Europe will still severely limit British involvement in the Pacific and there will be no German, Italian or French navies as originally planned.

God knows if I will ever finish this mod but it is always fun to plan and work on. [:D]

EDIT: New name for the mod will be "Hell in Paradise" or HiP



GaryChildress -> RE: Simple Fantasy (SF) Mod: "Hell in Paradise" (2/18/2012 8:24:38 PM)

Here is the Japanese lineup starting with BBs: Building on the 8-8-8 plan starts in 1922 and goes on until 1930, producing the following capital ships pictured at bottom.

Japanese battleship building then takes a hiatus in the 1930s as all the battleships are brought up to more modern standards, postponing any further new construction, including no Yamatos. The Yamato design hits the drawing board late in the 1930s but by the time they are ready to begin building WW2 has started and it is clear that BBs are not going to be needed as much as other ship types. Most of the 1930s will be spent building carriers and more modern cruisers, destroyers and support ships.

[image]local://upfiles/17421/BAC98762F14B45129EA130EE86D4D3E7.jpg[/image]



GaryChildress -> RE: Simple Fantasy (SF) Mod: "Hell in Paradise" (2/18/2012 8:51:21 PM)

Japanese carrier production starts in earnest around 1930, once they realize they have built a huge battlefleet with almost no airpower to support it. First there are the two Shokaku class aircraft cruisers with 2 x 2 8" guns on the bow and the rest of the ship dedicated to aircraft operation. Later, along come the fleet carriers of the Kairyu class with relatively heavily armored flight decs at the cost of more limited aircraft operation. These are completed up through 1940. In 1940 plans are laid down for an improved fleet carrier of the Unryu class with a bit more armor but the same number of planes. These will be constructed and completed during the war (which starts with the bombing of Pearl Harbor Dec 7 1941 as historical). Coming alongside the Unryus is the Junho class CVL designed to augment the big carrier fleet which can't be everywhere at once. The Junhos are based upon a standard hull design which is also used in the constructions of support ships such as AVs, ARs, ASs, making the four ship types easily convertable into each other as needed. In game I will make conversion binds for AVs, ARs, ASs and CVLs so that they can readily convert into each other, although at a considerable time penalty for each conversion.

[image]local://upfiles/17421/552C4E77C72542F9A6CABB44AEA5CD11.jpg[/image]



traskott -> RE: Simple Fantasy (SF) Mod: "Hell in Paradise" (2/18/2012 9:07:05 PM)

Fantastic idea !!! [:)]



GaryChildress -> RE: Simple Fantasy (SF) Mod: "Hell in Paradise" (2/18/2012 10:53:52 PM)

Thanks! I hope I get it completed someday. [:)]

Here's the overall list of Capital ships for "Hell in Paradise" (HiP). The main thing to note is that the 1920s is a period of enormous capital ship growth by the US, Japan and Britain. The 1930s sees a scale back in capital ship production as carriers enter the picture more prominently and later existing captial ships undergo their modernization programs. The hiatus on capital ship production ceases at the outbreak of WW2 and the US and Britain vamp up new capital ship construction again. The Japanese put plans on the table for the construction of the Yamatos in response, however, due to war time shortages, changes in fleet tactics, etc, the Yamatos are never laid down.

Also to note, Tiger and Canada are retained by Britain. Tiger is given to Australia and Canada is given to its namesake.

Class names include main armament and speed in parethesis and next to each ship is the commission date of the vessel.

Artwork is courtesy of myself, Big B and the contributors to AE. Most of my contribution was to cut and paste from standard AE artwork to create any new ships needed.



[image]local://upfiles/17421/27BD6461A4A1460CB8E6C20ED2911F63.jpg[/image]



GaryChildress -> RE: Simple Fantasy (SF) Mod: "Hell in Paradise" (2/19/2012 2:10:51 AM)

Here are the carriers. Carrier production doesn't really start in earnest until the mid to late 1930s and then continues throughout the war. Instead of open bows and unarmored hangars Japan, the US and UK opt for smaller aircraft contingents but more heavily armored flight decks and closed bows for better seakeeping. Japan creates a small fleet of light carriers to help fill any voids not covered by the big carriers. The US basically puts all it's eggs in the basket of large fleet carriers and doesn't invest in light carriers. The British invest in light carriers as trade protection carriers to help protect their far flung empire. All three navies start their initial carrier projects on converted large cruiser designs. The US and Japan retain the 8" guns of their flight deck cruisers but the British Furious class dispense with large guns in favor of greater AA protection to start.



[image]local://upfiles/17421/DE9004D158D247E38A7C5810083B9DF9.jpg[/image]



Terminus -> RE: Simple Fantasy (SF) Mod: "Hell in Paradise" (2/19/2012 6:31:01 PM)

The years you list, are those commissioning dates or launching dates?



GaryChildress -> RE: Simple Fantasy (SF) Mod: "Hell in Paradise" (2/19/2012 6:57:17 PM)

Commission dates



Terminus -> RE: Simple Fantasy (SF) Mod: "Hell in Paradise" (2/19/2012 7:19:31 PM)

You ARE of course aware that those 8in guns on the flight-deck cruisers will never, ever fire a shot in anger?



GaryChildress -> RE: Simple Fantasy (SF) Mod: "Hell in Paradise" (2/19/2012 7:21:23 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Terminus

You ARE of course aware that those 8in guns on the flight-deck cruisers will never, ever fire a shot in anger?


They are built with the 8" guns. Do you think I should have the 8" removed due to modernization prior to the war? Maybe leave them looking a bit like HMS Furious?



Terminus -> RE: Simple Fantasy (SF) Mod: "Hell in Paradise" (2/19/2012 7:23:23 PM)

Absolutely. All the world's navies with carriers carrying cruiser-calibre weapons were moving away from them at this point. The only reason the Akagi and Kaga still had theirs at Midway was because of bureaucratic inertia.



Terminus -> RE: Simple Fantasy (SF) Mod: "Hell in Paradise" (2/19/2012 7:25:31 PM)

If you must start with them, I think you make their removal part of an upgrade. The Lexington and Saratoga started out with 8-inchers too, and they were removed fairly quickly (the Lex didn't have hers at Coral Sea).



traskott -> RE: Simple Fantasy (SF) Mod: "Hell in Paradise" (2/19/2012 7:42:52 PM)

I have seen several PBEM on which both players would have sold their mums in order to have CVs gunned with 8'' ( last week sank the CVL Shoho via night engagement )



GaryChildress -> RE: Simple Fantasy (SF) Mod: "Hell in Paradise" (2/19/2012 8:49:17 PM)

Question for anyone out there who can answer this.

I need a naming scheme for some ficticious British auxiliaries. Basically I'm creating a class of auxiliaries which can be converted into each other or CVLs. I have a similar series of US ships I'm calling the "Bay" class, named after bays in the US. I need a naming convention for the British auxiliaries which isn't used by any other ships and which I could derive a good 50-100 names from. Basically the series would consist of AO, AS, AD, AV, AR and CVL versions. Here's a pic of what I'm talking about:



[image]local://upfiles/17421/271D83622E834BECAFEBD1EB5F03094E.jpg[/image]



kjnoel -> RE: Simple Fantasy (SF) Mod: "Hell in Paradise" (2/20/2012 12:48:16 PM)

You could take the 1950s+ ton class minesweepers, plenty of those:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ton_class_minesweeper



Terminus -> RE: Simple Fantasy (SF) Mod: "Hell in Paradise" (2/20/2012 3:25:14 PM)

That's sound. But where in the ************* is the RN getting the resources to build that many auxiliaries?



Shark7 -> RE: Simple Fantasy (SF) Mod: "Hell in Paradise" (2/20/2012 4:30:06 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Gary Childress

Question for anyone out there who can answer this.

I need a naming scheme for some ficticious British auxiliaries. Basically I'm creating a class of auxiliaries which can be converted into each other or CVLs. I have a similar series of US ships I'm calling the "Bay" class, named after bays in the US. I need a naming convention for the British auxiliaries which isn't used by any other ships and which I could derive a good 50-100 names from. Basically the series would consist of AO, AS, AD, AV, AR and CVL versions. Here's a pic of what I'm talking about:



[image]local://upfiles/17421/271D83622E834BECAFEBD1EB5F03094E.jpg[/image]


Currently UK auxiliaries carry a 'Fort' name, a "***leaf", or "Wave' name

Here's the list from Haze Grey and Underway: http://hazegray.org/

Fort Victoria, Fort George, Fort Rosalie, Fort Austin, Oakleaf, Brambleleaf, Bayleaf, Orangeleaf, Wave Knight, Wave Ruler, Grey Rover, Gold Rover, and Black Rover

The naming convention is probably the same as it was during WWII (I know I've seen a 'Fort' named UK ship in the game).



Terminus -> RE: Simple Fantasy (SF) Mod: "Hell in Paradise" (2/20/2012 5:05:05 PM)

Most of those were used IRL, but if Gary is standardizing anyway, they would work.



JWE -> RE: Simple Fantasy (SF) Mod: "Hell in Paradise" (2/20/2012 7:13:34 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Terminus
That's sound. But where in the ************* is the RN getting the resources to build that many auxiliaries?

A good point T. There was nobody, nowhere, building a high seas fleet train except the USN. And even the USN didn't push it to the hard. There was onesey-twoseys in the RN but gimme a break; fully fleshed out auxiliaries is somebody's fever dream. They never would have happened. So forget them.

Ciao. J



Terminus -> RE: Simple Balancer Fantasy (SBF) Mod (2/20/2012 8:08:05 PM)

Well, Gary DOES call this a "fantasy" mod, so...[:D]



GaryChildress -> RE: Simple Balancer Fantasy (SBF) Mod (2/21/2012 3:04:05 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Terminus

Well, Gary DOES call this a "fantasy" mod, so...[:D]


I have no pretenses about the fantasy part. About the only thing true to RL here will be that it's played on Earth and not Planet Neptune. Although, now that I think of it, what if Humanity had arisen on Neptune and there were no naval treaties? [:D]

Seriously, though, I know my mod is fantasy but at least it doesn't feature space lizards or the carrier Nimitz teleporting back into time. Basically it's going to take into account that there is virtually no depression and no isolationism and navies can get a bit more of what they would like to have. If Britain could field some 35 1st rate dreadnaughts back in the 10 year period 1906 - 1916 then I would think the latent ability must exist somewhere to have built more in the 20 year period between the wars. This mod is a no holds barred world in the period between WW1 and WW2. Nobody is holding back anything.



GaryChildress -> RE: Simple Fantasy (SF) Mod: "Hell in Paradise" (2/21/2012 3:08:27 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Terminus

That's sound. But where in the ************* is the RN getting the resources to build that many auxiliaries?



OK. maybe not 50 to 100 ships, more like maybe 20-30. My Royal Navy might be short a few cruisers as a result.



Terminus -> RE: Simple Fantasy (SF) Mod: "Hell in Paradise" (2/21/2012 12:54:39 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Gary Childress


quote:

ORIGINAL: Terminus

That's sound. But where in the ************* is the RN getting the resources to build that many auxiliaries?



OK. maybe not 50 to 100 ships, more like maybe 20-30. My Royal Navy might be short a few cruisers as a result.


And cruisers are what the navy of a world-spanning colonial power needs more than anything.



Terminus -> RE: Simple Fantasy (SF) Mod: "Hell in Paradise" (2/21/2012 12:58:37 PM)

Remember than pre-WWI navies consisted of fewer different types of ships than WWII navies. You can't equate operating that many ships in 1914 with doing the same in 1941.

Also, crew requirements for capital ships went up as capabilities were added. The Iron Duke had a crew of less than 1,000 whilst the WWII King George V needed 1,500-1,600. It all has to fit together.



GaryChildress -> RE: Simple Fantasy (SF) Mod: "Hell in Paradise" (2/21/2012 2:40:38 PM)

OK. Maybe the RN can do without a large fleet train. I'll leave their auxiliary force to its historical size. Between you and JWE I'll heed to your advice.


quote:

ORIGINAL: Terminus

quote:

ORIGINAL: Gary Childress


quote:

ORIGINAL: Terminus

That's sound. But where in the ************* is the RN getting the resources to build that many auxiliaries?



OK. maybe not 50 to 100 ships, more like maybe 20-30. My Royal Navy might be short a few cruisers as a result.


And cruisers are what the navy of a world-spanning colonial power needs more than anything.




Terminus -> RE: Simple Fantasy (SF) Mod: "Hell in Paradise" (2/21/2012 2:56:22 PM)

At least a large pre-war one... Once the British colonies start getting under new management, however...



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