Has anybody tweaked the US torpedo dud rate? (Full Version)

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Keifer -> Has anybody tweaked the US torpedo dud rate? (5/23/2011 7:49:51 PM)

I'm getting ready to start a new game as the Allies against the AI.

Based on previous games and AAR's it appears to me that the US torpedo dud rate is a-historically high.

I am planning to edit the scenario to lower the dud rate to see if I get a more historical result.

Does anyone have suggestions of how much to lower it? I was thinking dropping it to 40% or 50% from 80% to get a more historical result.



Terminus -> RE: Has anybody tweaked the US torpedo dud rate? (5/23/2011 8:01:29 PM)

Oh, Good Grief... It's not "ahistorically" high...



Terminus -> RE: Has anybody tweaked the US torpedo dud rate? (5/23/2011 8:02:10 PM)

If you don't like it, set "Historical US torpedoes" to OFF.



Keifer -> RE: Has anybody tweaked the US torpedo dud rate? (5/23/2011 8:48:32 PM)

My apologies, I do not want to start a debate on the Dud Rate. This is why I qualified my statement with "it appears to me that the US torpedo dud rate is a-historically high."

I am looking for a suggestions for the Mark XIV dud rate from others who believe that 80% is too high, but don't want to turn it off. 



witpqs -> RE: Has anybody tweaked the US torpedo dud rate? (5/23/2011 9:14:34 PM)

My honest opinion is that it's fine (meaning historical) the way it is. If you want to lower it, pick what you believe to be more accurate.



Bullwinkle58 -> RE: Has anybody tweaked the US torpedo dud rate? (5/23/2011 10:03:26 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Keifer

I'm getting ready to start a new game as the Allies against the AI.

Based on previous games and AAR's it appears to me that the US torpedo dud rate is a-historically high.

I am planning to edit the scenario to lower the dud rate to see if I get a more historical result.

Does anyone have suggestions of how much to lower it? I was thinking dropping it to 40% or 50% from 80% to get a more historical result.


I don't recall seeing you here before, so from my POV, welcome.

Noting your "appears to me", nonetheless no one knows what the historical rate was. Mk14s did not have real time telemetry. I think what you're speaking to is a difference with historical combat results. Combat results have numerous factors involved, and many of them differ in the game than were the case in RL. Cycle times are far faster in the game, for example.

You can set the dud rate to anything you like. I've played two AI games as Allies now, one to the end, and one to June 1944. I left the rate alone in both cases and have been happy with the sub war results. Against the AI, IMO lowering the dud rate might "break" 1942 and you may cripple the last years of the war if too successful early. If the AI can't form adequate TFs, especially in respect to escorts, it sits in port.

Lots of players wail about submarine results, but in most of those cases they are not playing their subs effectively. Attention and time invested will get you excellent results with default dud rates. Try it. You might like it.



oldman45 -> RE: Has anybody tweaked the US torpedo dud rate? (5/23/2011 11:11:18 PM)

I have to agree with Bullwinkle, if you tweak that number, you will not like the results in late 43/44 when you find that your subs have wiped the IJN out. Talk about a boring AI game. In my AI games I pull the boats in 44 so my ships and planes will have something to do.



LeeChard -> RE: Has anybody tweaked the US torpedo dud rate? (5/23/2011 11:13:59 PM)

I remember reading a story about a sub captain taking an ordnance officer out to sea and firing 4 torps at an underwater cliff somewhere in Hawaii and all four failed to explode.
The torps were recovered(those guys must have had sizable clockwieghts) and it was found that piston had expanded and jammed under the pressure of the strike. A simple problem but the ordnance guys were sure the sub captains were making excuses for incompetence.
That was just one of the many design flaws that had to be rectified.



witpqs -> RE: Has anybody tweaked the US torpedo dud rate? (5/23/2011 11:21:37 PM)

From the manual:
quote:


6.4.2.1 NOTE ON TORPEDO DUDS
In January 1943, all torpedoes with a dud rate of greater than 49 have their dud rates reduced
by 20. In September 1943, all torpedoes with an adjusted dud rate greater than 20 have their
dud rates lowered to 10. Allied torpedoes were notoriously inefficient in the early stages of the
Pacific War, and this rule reflects their slow but steady improvement over the years.

Note: if the Realism option “Reliable USN Torpedoes” (see
section 2.4.7) is selected, this rule does not apply – no
torpedoes will have dud rates higher than 10%.





topeverest -> RE: Has anybody tweaked the US torpedo dud rate? (5/23/2011 11:50:55 PM)

I agree the dud rate is both accurate and that modification is unecessary. There is vocal minority dissidence on this subject. Even if you dont find the 42 magic the first time through (most dont), you will if you focus some effort and you play the game a number of times as allies. IME, many aspects of the game require multiple play throughs and especially mulitple thrashings to really 'sink' in. HaHa



Bradley7735 -> RE: Has anybody tweaked the US torpedo dud rate? (5/24/2011 2:10:40 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Ranger5355

I remember reading a story about a sub captain taking an ordnance officer out to sea and firing 4 torps at an underwater cliff somewhere in Hawaii and all four failed to explode.
The torps were recovered(those guys must have had sizable clockwieghts) and it was found that piston had expanded and jammed under the pressure of the strike. A simple problem but the ordnance guys were sure the sub captains were making excuses for incompetence.
That was just one of the many design flaws that had to be rectified.


The first one exploded. the second did not. They recovered the second and didn't fire any more tests. Yes, the guy attaching the cable to the recovered torp had some serious clock weights.

To the op....

I would not lower the percentages by more than 10% (70% and 50% instead of 80% and 60%). Lowering by 10% increases your hits by 50% (ie, 20% work to 30% work.) By the way, I'm not suggesting you lower the dud rate. I'm just suggesting that, if you do, don't do it by much.

To be fair, you should either greatly reduce the amount of time your S boats are on station, or increase the dud rate on the S boat torpedos (20" torpedoes?) You get way more sucess from the s boats in game than they could do in real life. I suggest returning them to port when they have 5 sys damage, and keeping them in port for 40 days or more to reflect that they should not be on station for a significant time.

I wouldn't worry too much about sinking all the AI's ships in 42. Every time I load up the AI side, it has half it's AK's in port (meaning it has so many around it doesn't use most of them). But, play it by ear. If you sink 300 or less merchants in 42, the AI should handle it. If you sink 1,000 ships in 42, you're in for a long boring ride the rest of the war.



LeeChard -> RE: Has anybody tweaked the US torpedo dud rate? (5/24/2011 5:47:42 AM)

Ageing brain cells got the details wrong. [:'(]



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