Hi! A few 'on the fence' questions. (Full Version)

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kev_uk -> Hi! A few 'on the fence' questions. (7/3/2011 4:44:25 PM)

Greets,
I keep re-reading James Allens Out of Eight review over on his review site. He has given this game a 'must buy' rating, i.e full 8/8. I am on the fence whether I would purchase this however. So, how true is his review? Is this another MoO clone, or worse still, is it in any way a bad as MoO3? How does is compare to say, GalCiv? I liked those games, although something about GalCiv 2 I never really got into, unsure why, found it too easy (!), and only kept my attention for a limited period.

Wish there was a demo.

The movies look like its really interesting. I like the spiral galaxy, that looks fun, aint too bothered that it is not fully 3D, but gameplay and longevity are the main factors in 4x games, no? Also, how is the AI? Is it challenging to play? Will it keep me on my toes? James Allens' review states that its not that bad?

Thanks. A (potential) possible buyer.

Kev



kev_uk -> RE: Hi! A few 'on the fence' questions. (7/3/2011 10:01:02 PM)

Well, it is now sitting on my HDD. Brought the expansion too. Looks good.



JonBrave -> RE: Hi! A few 'on the fence' questions. (7/3/2011 10:16:15 PM)

Hi, Kev, can you let me know if you have too much money [;)]



ASHBERY76 -> RE: Hi! A few 'on the fence' questions. (7/3/2011 10:56:12 PM)

The biggest selling point is that the game is nothing like MOO or the like.It is more like Paradox games with the real time nature and little micromanagment.



kev_uk -> RE: Hi! A few 'on the fence' questions. (7/3/2011 11:43:06 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: JonBrave

Hi, Kev, can you let me know if you have too much money [;)]


Yeah, certainly seems on the up and up, despite investments into new ships and treaty gifts. Playing as a Human at the moment, quite an interesting game.



kev_uk -> RE: Hi! A few 'on the fence' questions. (7/3/2011 11:45:24 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: ASHBERY76

The biggest selling point is that the game is nothing like MOO or the like.It is more like Paradox games with the real time nature and little micromanagment.


I can see that, with a load of things going on in the background. I was recently playing X3: Reunion, liked that too, but it took ages to actually make any money. I liked the dynamic universe, and so far what I have played (in last several hours) of DW, it is similar to an extent, although this is strategy whilst X3 was mainly space combat with a cool economic system. Initial impressions favourable.



Kayoz -> RE: Hi! A few 'on the fence' questions. (7/4/2011 6:59:17 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: kev_uk

I can see that, with a load of things going on in the background. I was recently playing X3: Reunion, liked that too, but it took ages to actually make any money. I liked the dynamic universe, and so far what I have played (in last several hours) of DW, it is similar to an extent, although this is strategy whilst X3 was mainly space combat with a cool economic system. Initial impressions favourable.


As much as I want to support Matrix and CodeForce, as a purchaser of DW and addon, I am not honestly too impressed with CodeForce, nor with Matrix.

1. Support - months go by without any news from them - then they come out with a patch that seems to address a random grab-bag of bugs. There seems to be little priority of bug-fixing and absolutely no feedback from the developers where common problems are concerned. Look in the tech support forum for .net installation problems - this is a common issue, yet it's the users who are answering queries on it, and nothing but deafening silence from the devs and Matrix. If you want a quantitative look at the support - look at the timeline of patches for DW sans-expansion. You'll see an enormous gap when Erik fixed bugs in the expansion, but did nothing to roll those fixes back into the base game. What message does give to consumers who didn't buy the expansion?
2. Expansions - expansions seem to add cosmetic changes to the game, without addressing the most important features, which imo are balance and AI. AI, for example, makes random, spotty attacks without any real rhyme nor reason, and sticks to its pestering attacks with a lemming-like suicidal single-mindedness. The problems with the AI should have been addressed in patches or at the very least the expansions - yet there has been no improvement. Sure, new weapons is cool and a more expansive story line is amusing - but ****e AI means replayability is sacrificed for shiny baubles.
3. News - none. None at all. No fortnightly blog from the devs, no updates from Matrix nor from Erik. There's no way of telling if they're doing anything or if the whole DW title has been sh*t-canned.

There are some good things about DW - Erik from CodeForce had some interesting ideas. But it seems he's lost the plot. That's not a good sign from an indy developer - innovation has to draw consumers, where big budget production cannot. Innovation with DW seems to have fizzled out.



MartialDoctor -> RE: Hi! A few 'on the fence' questions. (7/4/2011 8:31:05 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Kayoz
3. News - none. None at all. No fortnightly blog from the devs, no updates from Matrix nor from Erik. There's no way of telling if they're doing anything or if the whole DW title has been sh*t-canned.


Although your previous points are well-founded, I haven't lost hope yet. And this last statement of yours isn't entirely accurate:

http://www.matrixgames.com/forums/tm.asp?m=2840317



kev_uk -> RE: Hi! A few 'on the fence' questions. (7/4/2011 11:51:35 AM)

It initially appears to be a good game, although I think the financial stuff seems a bit buggy, i.e it does not always take the amount of money from me that, say, ship production costs.
I like the graphics, the elliptical spiral galaxy is quite cool and adds a sense of dimension.
The game can play itself, limited micromanagement, a good thing instead of being bogged down in a click fest and keep tabs on every single thing. So thats good.
I have no music in my game? I see tracks in the music folder, but nothing plays?
Spent all night playing, seen some AI issues and I am not that fussed with the diplomacy, not much character with it, or like the Civ AIs, any idea if they will accept things (like GalCiv does well).

Its an interesting concept for sure, quite an original title, and hopefully it will be patched and fixed? Otherwise ok.

Kev



Data -> RE: Hi! A few 'on the fence' questions. (7/4/2011 2:20:59 PM)

It was and it continues to be patched, a new expansion was announced. Elliot, the one man dev team, is also responsive to our requests as our wishlists and polls are taken into consideration. He also visits the bug reports on the tech support section to deal with them. But again, it's a one man team so things don't move as fast as some of us would like.
And yes, there's definitly music in the game and even more of it in the mods.
Have fun.



Igard -> RE: Hi! A few 'on the fence' questions. (7/4/2011 2:42:52 PM)

Hi Kev, have you got the latest version of Windows Media Player installed? Even if you don't use WMP (like me) it's still a requirement for the game's music.



kev_uk -> RE: Hi! A few 'on the fence' questions. (7/4/2011 2:57:23 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Igard

Hi Kev, have you got the latest version of Windows Media Player installed? Even if you don't use WMP (like me) it's still a requirement for the game's music.


No, I use winamp and do not update windows media player...maybe why there is no music! What codecs do I need?

I am currently playing Brian Enos Apollo soundtrack, which is ok, but short.



kev_uk -> RE: Hi! A few 'on the fence' questions. (7/4/2011 3:01:48 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Data

It was and it continues to be patched, a new expansion was announced. Elliot, the one man dev team, is also responsive to our requests as our wishlists and polls are taken into consideration. He also visits the bug reports on the tech support section to deal with them. But again, it's a one man team so things don't move as fast as some of us would like.
And yes, there's definitly music in the game and even more of it in the mods.
Have fun.


Well this is true indie developer status then? It must have taken a lot of hard work to code. Hope its patched and improved upon. I really like the idea, reminds me to an extent of Birth of the Federation (although that is now too dated to like & play), which also was quite buggy but had a certain gameplay element to it that kept you playing. And atmosphere.

Still playing. At the end of the day, it was the Out of Eight review that sold me.




Shark7 -> RE: Hi! A few 'on the fence' questions. (7/4/2011 3:14:28 PM)

IMO, the game is not like MoO, Paradox or any other 4X game you have played before. DW is like DW, it is the new generation of 4X games...I have a feeling future 4X games will be modeled on the DW framework.

The 8/8 rating is deserved. The bugs seem to have all been squished in the patches, I have no bug problems in my games. The only thing I wish the game had was a bit more modability, and that is slowly being opened up in the patches.



Igard -> RE: Hi! A few 'on the fence' questions. (7/4/2011 3:17:55 PM)

It's just the WMP itself that's required. I don't know if you can just dl the codecs.

Birth of the Federation is my all time favourite Trek game. I made a thread a couple of days ago on the TrekBBS forums Trek gaming section entitled, 'Fans of Birth of the Federation and the 4x genre'. I was just notifying them all of this game and the ST mods I've made for it.

Almost 100 views at this time and only 1 comment, asking what a 4x genre is! I really despair at times. I really do.[:(]



Data -> RE: Hi! A few 'on the fence' questions. (7/4/2011 3:25:41 PM)

quote:

and only 1 comment, asking what a 4x genre is! I really despair at times. I really do


roflmao, we're such a forgotten minority. But aside from this, thumbs up for the effort Igard [sm=00000436.gif]



J HG T -> RE: Hi! A few 'on the fence' questions. (7/4/2011 3:40:37 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Igard

Almost 100 views at this time and only 1 comment, asking what a 4x genre is! I really despair at times. I really do.[:(]



Just... Wow! That's just...

[image]http://cache.blippitt.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/03/darth-vader-epic-fail.jpg[/image]



kev_uk -> RE: Hi! A few 'on the fence' questions. (7/4/2011 3:42:37 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Igard

It's just the WMP itself that's required. I don't know if you can just dl the codecs.

Birth of the Federation is my all time favourite Trek game. I made a thread a couple of days ago on the TrekBBS forums Trek gaming section entitled, 'Fans of Birth of the Federation and the 4x genre'. I was just notifying them all of this game and the ST mods I've made for it.

Almost 100 views at this time and only 1 comment, asking what a 4x genre is! I really despair at times. I really do.[:(]



Well, the alternative is to just dump the tracks on random selection into winamp. Not an issue. I still hear the in game sounds, so know what is going on.

BotF, now wasn't that just a classic game? So unsupported though, criminal. DW so far is interesting, although some issues. One guys work? Jebus, must have taken him ages to code and design this.





Data -> RE: Hi! A few 'on the fence' questions. (7/4/2011 4:07:38 PM)

I remember an earlier comment of his saying that he's also a 4x gamer and just wanted to get the 4x game he dreams about. I know, we all do but he actually did it.
So the passion is there, that's some fuel; and I think the game shows it.



kev_uk -> RE: Hi! A few 'on the fence' questions. (7/4/2011 4:42:20 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Data

I remember an earlier comment of his saying that he's also a 4x gamer and just wanted to get the 4x game he dreams about. I know, we all do but he actually did it.
So the passion is there, that's some fuel; and I think the game shows it.


That is a vision. Look forward to the next expansion. Still learning this though. Steep-ish learning curve, but its good that most (if not all) can be automated. Some more character with diplomacy would be nice, as well as a few refinements in certain areas, and possibly a few more stats. Interesting game.



Data -> RE: Hi! A few 'on the fence' questions. (7/4/2011 5:05:15 PM)

We all agree on this and it's been heavily requested, more modding and dimplomacy made the podium in a recent poll and Erik (from Matrix) told us that this was considered for the upcoming expansion so we may get them soon.



Kayoz -> RE: Hi! A few 'on the fence' questions. (7/4/2011 5:11:14 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: MartialDoctor

Although your previous points are well-founded, I haven't lost hope yet. And this last statement of yours isn't entirely accurate:

http://www.matrixgames.com/forums/tm.asp?m=2840317


A few smatterings of posts from Erik doesn't count as "keeping the consumers informed". What percentage of consumers will check the forums for up-to-date information? What percentage of those will be bothered to sift through the morass of faceroll comments for the few that contain real information?

A dedicated DW (or insert game of choice) blog would make FAR more sense - both for the Matrix bods and for the consumers... yet where is it? Is this system of sporadic forum posts from Erik et al, the BEST that they can do?



Data -> RE: Hi! A few 'on the fence' questions. (7/4/2011 5:24:23 PM)

afaik Matrix also has a small team and they cover a legion of games. Obviously there is always room for improvment but a purely consumer mentality will never be satisfied. I personally am glad that there are people like Elliot and Erik who still do something for 4x gaming and any step forward by them is greatly appreciated.



Kayoz -> RE: Hi! A few 'on the fence' questions. (7/4/2011 5:54:26 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Data

afaik Matrix also has a small team and they cover a legion of games.


All the more reason for them to be more organized about it. They could reach more people, with less effort - with a bit of creative thought towards their web site.

As it stands, I can find information updates more easily for Total War series, than I can for DW.... which is frankly pathetic. Isn't it rather degrading to be behind the likes of Sonic the Hedgehog?



J HG T -> RE: Hi! A few 'on the fence' questions. (7/4/2011 7:03:18 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Data
I personally am glad that there are people like Elliot and Erik who still do something for 4x gaming and any step forward by them is greatly appreciated.


We concur.



JonBrave -> RE: Hi! A few 'on the fence' questions. (7/4/2011 8:18:29 PM)

@kev_uk

Do have a look at:
http://www.matrixgames.com/forums/tm.asp?m=2853875&mpage=1&key=�
(last post) and let me know when you know what they are going on about! [:)] Thanks.



kev_uk -> RE: Hi! A few 'on the fence' questions. (7/4/2011 9:46:21 PM)

I did your poll - better diplomacy main one. Kudos for that. Still playing and getting more confused...so maybe thats good. ;-)



Igard -> RE: Hi! A few 'on the fence' questions. (7/4/2011 10:13:43 PM)

Thanks, Kev. Diplomacy was one of my first choices as well.

Keep it up. I was still learning new things about this game after several months.



kev_uk -> RE: Hi! A few 'on the fence' questions. (7/5/2011 12:16:11 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Igard

Thanks, Kev. Diplomacy was one of my first choices as well.

Keep it up. I was still learning new things about this game after several months.


Yeah, its a cool game. Can see why it was rated 8/8 on James Allens site, so much stuff in there and basically you can just let it play itself and I think that is important because if you had to micromanage everything then that would lead to total confusion.

Looking at the mods now. I see several ST mods, looks good, and also a super AI mod. Which, in your opinion are the best ones to download?

Its a confusing game no doubt. So much happening that without the automation would become just too much to handle. It does remind me of Birth of the Federation, (that was such a good Trek game) but instead of turn based this is real time, so this is an interesting development for the 4X genre.

So, what mods are the most downloaded and considered the best?

Kev



Igard -> RE: Hi! A few 'on the fence' questions. (7/5/2011 12:44:10 PM)

As you get better, you'll find that it's far less confusing. Make good use of the pause button 'space bar'. I always pause when I'm being attacked, or preparing to attack someone. When nothing's happening, you can then speed the game up.

The Star Trek mods are by far the best mods ever made for any computer game in the history of computer gaming. Ok, I'm joking [:D], but I put a lot of work into them. Even though they don't replicate Star Trek perfectly, they're still varied enough to get lots of enjoyment from.

Woodman's Diverse Worlds is essential IMO, for more variety of ship images.

Lordxorn's Star Wars mod is really cool.

There's my WIP planet images. This will slow down the game on some slower computers.

They're all on Lordxorn's mod compedium, as well as lots more :- http://www.matrixgames.com/forums/tm.asp?m=2440865



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