RE: Patch 06 - Public Beta - Build 1108p3 updated 10 July (2nd part) (Full Version)

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Theages -> RE: Patch 06 - Public Beta - Build 1108p3 updated 10 July (2nd part) (8/23/2011 6:15:59 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Keldun

I' m having a weird bug, sometimes when I select an air group, the game sends me to a completely different group.
This can be a bit messy when forget to double check the name of the unit with all its available command and I try to send some medium bomber to do some low ground attack but end up sending some ki-27b fighters to do it instead [:D]
Here is a small video that I recorded of the bug, I' m using patch 1108p9 and the scenario is the number 1 without any mods other than the map showing garrison requirement.
In that video, I first select the 47th I.F.Chutai without problem but after that when I try to select the 51st I.F.Chutai Det, the game sends me to the 12th Tpt.Chutai instead.


That's a known issue (at least I know it). Normally clicking the left arrow for previous air group calls up the selected one.
Simply take your time after selecting the airgroup und check, if it is the correct one.




Keldun -> RE: Patch 06 - Public Beta - Build 1108p3 updated 10 July (2nd part) (8/23/2011 6:22:28 PM)

quote:


That's a known issue (at least I know it). Normally clicking the left arrow for previous air group calls up the selected one.
Simply take your time after selecting the airgroup und check, if it is the correct one.

That is quite an annoying bug, it happened to me quite a few times to end a turn and only noticing that I sent the order to the wrong group after that group got destroyed for doing something it wasn't supposed to do.
Could you give me a link to the post showing other know issue please so I dont report other known issue [;)]
Thank you




Theages -> RE: Patch 06 - Public Beta - Build 1108p9 updated 22 August (2nd part) (8/23/2011 6:31:07 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: michaelm

[1108p9]
Added Restriction filter to army lists - filter by [S], [R], (R) or None [MEM]



Would it be possible to add a filter that filters out the various restricted LCUs? Only non-restricted LCUs should be displayed.

By the way, I think your dedication would qualify for the Companion of the Order of Australia award.




m10bob -> RE: Patch 06 - Public Beta - Build 1108p9 updated 22 August (2nd part) (8/23/2011 6:38:41 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Theages



"By the way, I think your dedication would qualify for the Companion of the Order of Australia award."



Or at least a copy of "The Best of Rolf Harris"..




Theages -> RE: Patch 06 - Public Beta - Build 1108p3 updated 10 July (2nd part) (8/23/2011 6:50:59 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Keldun
Could you give me a link to the post showing other know issue please so I dont report other known issue [;)]
Thank you


To my knowledge there is no (un)official known issues list.
As you can see in the changes list (1st post), there were many issues resolved and features added. It is still a work in progress. Every now and then additional issues or requests arise.
Only michaelm would / could know "all" the unresolved known issues (assuming they are on his to-do-list)




michaelm75au -> RE: Patch 06 - Public Beta - Build 1108p9b updated 23 August (2nd part) (8/24/2011 12:49:32 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: BigDuke66

Here we go.

TF 517 is a Tanker TF unloading fuel at Suva, I looked thru some other TFs and it doesn't seem to be tied to specific TF type or what the TF is unloading, simply if the TF is unloading something the popup will show "docked at base" instead of "unloading".
This is under p9, I haven't tried the latest beta yet.

I was looking at the individual icon type popups. Didn't think you were referring to the lists.
I have had several attempts at getting that popup right.

[edit]
okay. I have tweaked this messages further for next time.




michaelm75au -> RE: Patch 06 - Public Beta - Build 1108p9b updated 23 August (2nd part) (8/24/2011 2:32:41 AM)

Note I have slightly changed the Restriction filter.
The [S] and [R] stay as they are, but (R) will now include the unit (a) if it is (R) OR (b) if the HQ it is attached to is restricted - an implied (R) to the unit.
This then allows for an Unrestricted option in the filter to cover any units that are not inflicted with any restrictions to their HQ or unsage.

[p9c]
Tweaked TF list popup shows more detailed info for 'load' controls when in a base [MEM]
Tweaked The Restriction filter for (R) will include units attached to Restricted HQs [MEM]




michaelm75au -> RE: Patch 06 - Public Beta - Build 1108p3 updated 10 July (2nd part) (8/24/2011 2:36:46 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Theages


quote:

ORIGINAL: Keldun
Could you give me a link to the post showing other know issue please so I dont report other known issue [;)]
Thank you


To my knowledge there is no (un)official known issues list.
As you can see in the changes list (1st post), there were many issues resolved and features added. It is still a work in progress. Every now and then additional issues or requests arise.
Only michaelm would / could know "all" the unresolved known issues (assuming they are on his to-do-list)

Correct. If it is something that can be fixed I fix it.
There are too few to remember what can't be fixed.[:D] But that one which randomly jumps a group is one of them. There is a set sequence of events that does this but I have not been able to track it down.
And it does happen to me occassionally too when playing. So if I ever find a repeatable pattern, believe me, I'll stomp it hard.[;)]




PaxMondo -> RE: Patch 06 - Public Beta - Build 1108p9b updated 23 August (2nd part) (8/24/2011 4:56:24 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: michaelm

Note I have slightly changed the Restriction filter.
The [S] and [R] stay as they are, but (R) will now include the unit (a) if it is (R) OR (b) if the HQ it is attached to is restricted - an implied (R) to the unit.
This then allows for an Unrestricted option in the filter to cover any units that are not inflicted with any restrictions to their HQ or unsage.

[p9c]
Tweaked TF list popup shows more detailed info for 'load' controls when in a base [MEM]
Tweaked The Restriction filter for (R) will include units attached to Restricted HQs [MEM]

GREAT support. THANKS!!!!

[&o][&o][&o]




Chris21wen -> RE: Patch 06 - Public Beta - Build 1108p3 updated 10 July (2nd part) (8/24/2011 10:46:26 AM)

There's an odd problem with some TF where no track is being shown on the map. The TFs do move and if you select the TF the track appears.but disappears if you scroll the screen. Odd because it only appears to happen to TFs from Aden, I think to Aden as well. Changing the waypionts further from a Japanese air threat does appear to work but changing the routing doesn't. This appeared some time ago in the Beta history but it does not occur in the last stock.

The Cargo TF 120 (hex 35,17) to Diamond Harbour and SS TF 580 (hex26,11) to Colombo are both suffering from it.





michaelm75au -> RE: Patch 06 - Public Beta - Build 1108p3 updated 10 July (2nd part) (8/24/2011 11:10:19 AM)

I have noticed that a few times myself but can't see why.




m10bob -> RE: Patch 06 - Public Beta - Build 1108p3 updated 10 July (2nd part) (8/24/2011 12:02:13 PM)

Just wanted to draw everybodies attention to the number of "tweaks" and changes michaelm has already listed on the original post..What a talent..Hell, my generation never even had computers in college!

I am just awestruck and left slack-jawed![&o]




viberpol -> RE: Patch 06 - Public Beta - Build 1108p3 updated 10 July (2nd part) (8/24/2011 3:00:05 PM)

Michael, in some old patch the following rule has been introduced:

The new rule says: "50. Gameplay Change: Change to river assault – reversion to original rule - when crossing a river into a hex all units entering should shock attack in the turn they cross, unless 1/3 of the unmodified AV of the defenders has already crossed from that hex side in a previous turn."

I have posted to an old thread but kindly ask for your comments here too.
This turn (p8) I've got an assault triggered by a division sent to aid the defense E of Sibolga.
Japanese Shock attack

Attacking force Assault Value = 652
Defending force Assault Value = 1752
Japanese adjusted assault: 0
Allied adjusted defense: 3490
Japanese assault odds: 1 to 99


True, there may be not enough troops to met the 1/3 AV rule (although the 652 vs 1752 AV seems ok).
I'm perfectly ok with shock attacks when crossing the river without enough AV.
But maybe, just maybe, a shock attack should not be triggered regardless of who own the hex?

I owned the hex. I own it for months! Not from the previous turn.
Why the crossing trigger shock attack if the hex is mine?

Based on (my) ;) simple logic, IMHO its seems a bit weird that the forces crossing into friendly hex well secured for months suffer such terrible losses. I think that if I own the hex, I've got total control of the place and the crossing is secured.

Creating bridgeheads and getting into an enemy occupied hex is one thing, normal troops movement in secured hex is something different. Should it trigger the shock attack if my troops are simply moving on a bridge to fill the long owned trench line somewhere 40 miles away?
Some losses from long range enemy bombardment attack ok, but a shock attack and annihilation of a whole division? [&:]

If in your view hex control doesn't matter during river crossing, maybe there should be some check of who owns more hexsides of the contested hex? (in metaphore -- who has more land secured, check if the forces there are not encircled etc.; like 0 - 2 shock attack, 3 bombardment attack, 4 - 6 no punishing attack at all)?



[image]local://upfiles/18529/23409561E22E4C65BFCE4D2CC853A8CB.jpg[/image]




BigDuke66 -> RE: Patch 06 - Public Beta - Build 1108p9b updated 23 August (2nd part) (8/24/2011 3:46:35 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: michaelm
I was looking at the individual icon type popups. Didn't think you were referring to the lists.
I have had several attempts at getting that popup right.

[edit]
okay. I have tweaked this messages further for next time.

Hey thanks!


One question I have is, are the messages of the different phases during turn processing in anyway needed?
If not I would recommend to remove them as it would considerably speed up the processing of the turn if those messages don't even appear, some phases are so fast done that the message of the phase is longer on screen than the phases itself took to be calculated, sure you can turn off message delay but then all messages are skipped what is not helpful at all.




CV 2 -> RE: Patch 06 - Public Beta - Build 1108p9b updated 23 August (2nd part) (8/24/2011 6:22:44 PM)

I suspect theyre there so you know that its actually chewing on something rather than being locked up.




Ol_Dog -> RE: Patch 06 - Public Beta - Build 1108p3 updated 10 July (2nd part) (8/24/2011 6:40:25 PM)

Can the ship arrival list be changed?

All the arrivals scheduled when the Russians are activated are shown with a deferral date from current date. Change the display of those units to starting with the scheduled 1945 activation date rather than a 1 day etc deferral from current date, at least until the Russians are activated?

If there is just a flag that gets changed upon activation, perhaps the 1945 date can be used as default.

The unit arrival list would be much easier to peruse.

Just a thought.





michaelm75au -> RE: Patch 06 - Public Beta - Build 1108p3 updated 10 July (2nd part) (8/24/2011 11:16:53 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Ol_Dog

Can the ship arrival list be changed?

All the arrivals scheduled when the Russians are activated are shown with a deferral date from current date. Change the display of those units to starting with the scheduled 1945 activation date rather than a 1 day etc deferral from current date, at least until the Russians are activated?

If there is just a flag that gets changed upon activation, perhaps the 1945 date can be used as default.

The unit arrival list would be much easier to peruse.

Just a thought.



If you don't want the Soviets, you can filter their ships out of the list.




michaelm75au -> RE: Patch 06 - Public Beta - Build 1108p9b updated 23 August (2nd part) (8/24/2011 11:18:46 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: BigDuke66

quote:

ORIGINAL: michaelm
I was looking at the individual icon type popups. Didn't think you were referring to the lists.
I have had several attempts at getting that popup right.

[edit]
okay. I have tweaked this messages further for next time.

Hey thanks!


One question I have is, are the messages of the different phases during turn processing in anyway needed?
If not I would recommend to remove them as it would considerably speed up the processing of the turn if those messages don't even appear, some phases are so fast done that the message of the phase is longer on screen than the phases itself took to be calculated, sure you can turn off message delay but then all messages are skipped what is not helpful at all.

You can suppress almost all messages by hitting the space bar during the turn. It minimizes the message delay and flies thru any that are displayed.




michaelm75au -> RE: Patch 06 - Public Beta - Build 1108p3 updated 10 July (2nd part) (8/24/2011 11:29:01 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: viberpol

Michael, in some old patch the following rule has been introduced:

The new rule says: "50. Gameplay Change: Change to river assault – reversion to original rule - when crossing a river into a hex all units entering should shock attack in the turn they cross, unless 1/3 of the unmodified AV of the defenders has already crossed from that hex side in a previous turn."

I have posted to an old thread but kindly ask for your comments here too.
This turn (p8) I've got an assault triggered by a division sent to aid the defense E of Sibolga.
Japanese Shock attack

Attacking force Assault Value = 652
Defending force Assault Value = 1752
Japanese adjusted assault: 0
Allied adjusted defense: 3490
Japanese assault odds: 1 to 99


True, there may be not enough troops to met the 1/3 AV rule (although the 652 vs 1752 AV seems ok).
I'm perfectly ok with shock attacks when crossing the river without enough AV.
But maybe, just maybe, a shock attack should not be triggered regardless of who own the hex?

I owned the hex. I own it for months! Not from the previous turn.
Why the crossing trigger shock attack if the hex is mine?

Based on (my) ;) simple logic, IMHO its seems a bit weird that the forces crossing into friendly hex well secured for months suffer such terrible losses. I think that if I own the hex, I've got total control of the place and the crossing is secured.

Creating bridgeheads and getting into an enemy occupied hex is one thing, normal troops movement in secured hex is something different. Should it trigger the shock attack if my troops are simply moving on a bridge to fill the long owned trench line somewhere 40 miles away?
Some losses from long range enemy bombardment attack ok, but a shock attack and annihilation of a whole division? [&:]

If in your view hex control doesn't matter during river crossing, maybe there should be some check of who owns more hexsides of the contested hex? (in metaphore -- who has more land secured, check if the forces there are not encircled etc.; like 0 - 2 shock attack, 3 bombardment attack, 4 - 6 no punishing attack at all)?


First thing of top of my head is that there is no concept of 'how long have I owned the hex'.
River crossings have been a bone of contention since the early days of WITP from memory.
And as far as this is concerned, I can look at a save of this combat to see if there is a bug, but I can't rearrange the core ground combat system.
Sorry




Alfred -> RE: Patch 06 - Public Beta - Build 1108p3 updated 10 July (2nd part) (8/24/2011 11:53:20 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: michaelm


quote:

ORIGINAL: viberpol

Michael, in some old patch the following rule has been introduced:

The new rule says: "50. Gameplay Change: Change to river assault – reversion to original rule - when crossing a river into a hex all units entering should shock attack in the turn they cross, unless 1/3 of the unmodified AV of the defenders has already crossed from that hex side in a previous turn."

I have posted to an old thread but kindly ask for your comments here too.
This turn (p8) I've got an assault triggered by a division sent to aid the defense E of Sibolga.
Japanese Shock attack

Attacking force Assault Value = 652
Defending force Assault Value = 1752
Japanese adjusted assault: 0
Allied adjusted defense: 3490
Japanese assault odds: 1 to 99


True, there may be not enough troops to met the 1/3 AV rule (although the 652 vs 1752 AV seems ok).
I'm perfectly ok with shock attacks when crossing the river without enough AV.
But maybe, just maybe, a shock attack should not be triggered regardless of who own the hex?

I owned the hex. I own it for months! Not from the previous turn.
Why the crossing trigger shock attack if the hex is mine?

Based on (my) ;) simple logic, IMHO its seems a bit weird that the forces crossing into friendly hex well secured for months suffer such terrible losses. I think that if I own the hex, I've got total control of the place and the crossing is secured.

Creating bridgeheads and getting into an enemy occupied hex is one thing, normal troops movement in secured hex is something different. Should it trigger the shock attack if my troops are simply moving on a bridge to fill the long owned trench line somewhere 40 miles away?
Some losses from long range enemy bombardment attack ok, but a shock attack and annihilation of a whole division? [&:]

If in your view hex control doesn't matter during river crossing, maybe there should be some check of who owns more hexsides of the contested hex? (in metaphore -- who has more land secured, check if the forces there are not encircled etc.; like 0 - 2 shock attack, 3 bombardment attack, 4 - 6 no punishing attack at all)?


First thing of top of my head is that there is no concept of 'how long have I owned the hex'.
River crossings have been a bone of contention since the early days of WITP from memory.
And as far as this is concerned, I can look at a save of this combat to see if there is a bug, but I can't rearrange the core ground combat system.
Sorry


michaelm,

I've given two lengthy replies on the main forum regarding this matter and I have seen no evidence of a bug.

However, there might now be a graphical glitch. In days of old, when both sides had LCUs in the same hex, the hex was contested and both the white "A" and white "B" would be displayed when the show hex control was switched on. It appears that since you introduced the supply chain notification (ie it shows the numbers in an AI game but in PBEM only a dot to show which hexes a supply flows through) that both letters no longer are displayed for a contested hex. Now only one letter appears to be displayed.

Alfred




michaelm75au -> RE: Patch 06 - Public Beta - Build 1108p3 updated 10 July (2nd part) (8/25/2011 12:30:52 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Alfred

michaelm,

I've given two lengthy replies on the main forum regarding this matter and I have seen no evidence of a bug.

However, there might now be a graphical glitch. In days of old, when both sides had LCUs in the same hex, the hex was contested and both the white "A" and white "B" would be displayed when the show hex control was switched on. It appears that since you introduced the supply chain notification (ie it shows the numbers in an AI game but in PBEM only a dot to show which hexes a supply flows through) that both letters no longer are displayed for a contested hex. Now only one letter appears to be displayed.

Alfred


Funny, I can't see where it would have but "AJ" in the hex. The test for control is "A" OR "J" not both.
The supply chain is totally separate to this hex control.

I'll see if the other is possible or not.
When you refer to 'In days of old' was that for old WITP or new AE?
[Looked up old WITP code and it use to show "A" and "J" separately as hexcontrol was held for both sides.]




Alfred -> RE: Patch 06 - Public Beta - Build 1108p3 updated 10 July (2nd part) (8/25/2011 12:36:00 AM)

Definitely AE, before the Betas.

I don't use the Betas so I still see the combined "A" and "J" for a contested hex. However, if you look at the thread in the main forum where this discussion is taking place, you will see viberpol has screen shots for contested hexes but only the white "J" seems to appear. I believe he uses the Betas which is why I'm suspicious that somehow a graphical glitch has been introduced with the Betas.

Alfred




Rainer -> RE: Patch 06 - Public Beta - Build 1108p3 updated 10 July (2nd part) (8/25/2011 1:00:25 AM)

I agree with Alfred.
Playing 1108p9c I checked all hexes with Allied and Japanese forces, and I never saw more than one indicator of control.
It's either J or A, never both.
At the same time I vividly remember seeing both indicators with AE (before I decided to go with the patches).
Alfred, you should provide a screenshot plus version you're playing, if at all possible.
I deem it important to clear this up because I believe Viperpool and others may be mislead if the (false) concept of "Hex Ownership" is maintained.
Showing again both indicators of the contending forces could be a step to prevent this.




michaelm75au -> RE: Patch 06 - Public Beta - Build 1108p3 updated 10 July (2nd part) (8/25/2011 1:12:47 AM)

I checked the code again.

A hex can only be controled by one player, so only a A or J will show. Never both. There is no value for a contested hex. Been that way from start as far as I can see.

Went back to original released code (1079) and this is the same as it is now.

Here is a screen dump of running with last official patch (1106i)
It only shows J even though both in hex

[image]local://upfiles/3086/F2A03E06AB164DEB860E54E38ED6D27A.jpg[/image]




Rainer -> RE: Patch 06 - Public Beta - Build 1108p3 updated 10 July (2nd part) (8/25/2011 1:41:04 AM)

Now Alfred has to come up with the screenshot I had asked for [;)]
I could as well dig into the old versions (which I all archived).
Is it possible to load a 1108p9c save with an outdated version?
EDIT: No, it shows "Saved game fails to load" (1106i).

PS: Michael, please do not perceive this as questioning your competence.




Alfred -> RE: Patch 06 - Public Beta - Build 1108p3 updated 10 July (2nd part) (8/25/2011 1:44:32 AM)

Very sorry michaelm for setting you off an a wild goose hunt.

I went back and turned on the display hex control and I saw nothing to back up my claim of displaying both letters for contested hexes. I rarely use that filter but I could have sworn I had seen both letter displayed previously for contested hexes. Yep fell into the common trap of not verifying first, always a dangerous thing to do with software. Will go back into main forum and grovel although it doesn't invalidate anything i said there.

However, on the positive side (and to recover some lost reputation[:)]) any chance of having both letters displayed when it is a contested hex ... pretty please[&o]

Alfred





Alfred -> RE: Patch 06 - Public Beta - Build 1108p3 updated 10 July (2nd part) (8/25/2011 1:46:06 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Rainer

Now Alfred has to come up with the screenshot I had asked for [;)]
I could as well dig into the old versions (which I all archived).
Is it possible to load a 1108p9c save with an outdated version?
EDIT: No, it shows "Saved game fails to load" (1106i).

PS: Michael, please do not perceive this as questioning your competence.


Apology extended to you too Rainer, see post #446.

Alfred




Rainer -> RE: Patch 06 - Public Beta - Build 1108p3 updated 10 July (2nd part) (8/25/2011 1:52:55 AM)

Never trust a Matrix Elite Guard [:D]

Seriously, I could swear I had seen A and J in a contested hex. If only I could remember what version, and if only I had an appropriate save.
Then again, your suggestion to show in future version both indicators if and when both parties are present in a hex would certainly clean up things.
If Michael can do it without too much trouble, that is.

quote:

Apology extended to you too Rainer, see post #446.

Yeah, saw it. We were both typing simultaneously (spelling?).
Definitely no need to apologize.




michaelm75au -> RE: Patch 06 - Public Beta - Build 1108p3 updated 10 July (2nd part) (8/25/2011 2:21:16 AM)

To be honest, I am having trouble trying to make sense of the river crossing rule:  "50. Gameplay Change: Change to river assault – reversion to original rule - when crossing a river into a hex all units entering should shock attack in the turn they cross, unless 1/3 of the unmodified AV of the defenders has already crossed from that hex side in a previous turn."

It is written from the perspective of an attacker crossing a river to assault a defender. And I assume that the last part means that 1/3rd of the defender AV is already in the hex.

I need to go back and see how this was  in old WITP. [Well that was no use. Old code just assaults if a river hexside]




michaelm75au -> RE: Patch 06 - Public Beta - Build 1108p3 updated 10 July (2nd part) (8/25/2011 2:43:32 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: viberpol

Michael, in some old patch the following rule has been introduced:

The new rule says: "50. Gameplay Change: Change to river assault – reversion to original rule - when crossing a river into a hex all units entering should shock attack in the turn they cross, unless 1/3 of the unmodified AV of the defenders has already crossed from that hex side in a previous turn."

I have posted to an old thread but kindly ask for your comments here too.
This turn (p8) I've got an assault triggered by a division sent to aid the defense E of Sibolga.
Japanese Shock attack

Attacking force Assault Value = 652
Defending force Assault Value = 1752
Japanese adjusted assault: 0
Allied adjusted defense: 3490
Japanese assault odds: 1 to 99


True, there may be not enough troops to met the 1/3 AV rule (although the 652 vs 1752 AV seems ok).
I'm perfectly ok with shock attacks when crossing the river without enough AV.
But maybe, just maybe, a shock attack should not be triggered regardless of who own the hex?

I owned the hex. I own it for months! Not from the previous turn.
Why the crossing trigger shock attack if the hex is mine?

Based on (my) ;) simple logic, IMHO its seems a bit weird that the forces crossing into friendly hex well secured for months suffer such terrible losses. I think that if I own the hex, I've got total control of the place and the crossing is secured.

Creating bridgeheads and getting into an enemy occupied hex is one thing, normal troops movement in secured hex is something different. Should it trigger the shock attack if my troops are simply moving on a bridge to fill the long owned trench line somewhere 40 miles away?
Some losses from long range enemy bombardment attack ok, but a shock attack and annihilation of a whole division? [&:]

If in your view hex control doesn't matter during river crossing, maybe there should be some check of who owns more hexsides of the contested hex? (in metaphore -- who has more land secured, check if the forces there are not encircled etc.; like 0 - 2 shock attack, 3 bombardment attack, 4 - 6 no punishing attack at all)?


Do you still have the save when this assault happened???




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