RE: 1.05.18 beta KLilly vs Fulkerson T54 (Full Version)

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larryfulkerson -> RE: 1.05.18 beta KLilly vs Fulkerson T54 (9/18/2011 2:40:13 AM)

T54 June 25, 1942:
This is the front lines in T54 before any Soviet movement. Note the tremendous breakout in the South. KLilly has found my weak spot
again and is taking advantage of it before I can do much about it. There's some industry in Stalino to rail out still but nothing else is
immediately threatened because I've already railed-out the industry he can reach in a turn or two. But still, I've got to do something
about the front lines being ripped open like that. No forts to fall-back into and not much of a reserve Army or two. There's some guys in
the far north that I could ship down there if only I can spare the rail cap after Stalino gets evacuated.

[image]local://upfiles/16287/D436894514AE4608A790321FC1A1852D.gif[/image]



larryfulkerson -> RE: 1.05.18 beta KLilly vs Fulkerson T54 (9/18/2011 2:57:45 AM)

This is a close-up of the breakthrough area. There were 96 battles in the Axis half of the turn with 28 "retreated", 8 "held",
and 5 "routed" results. The length of the front lines that have to be re-constructed approaches 1,000 miles.....Maybe I should
pull-back into the Crimea and forget about having a continuous front line for a while and just make some hedge-hogs or something.

[image]local://upfiles/16287/68B5E70277AC4D1E9E8B37DC0774309C.gif[/image]



larryfulkerson -> RE: 1.05.18 beta KLilly vs Fulkerson T54 (9/18/2011 4:18:37 AM)

Here's that 11 points of Arm. Industry that gets railed out of Stalino

[image]local://upfiles/16287/5212EAC76D3A4D98BDDF7896567D2B6E.gif[/image]



larryfulkerson -> RE: 1.05.18 beta KLilly vs Fulkerson T54 (9/18/2011 4:58:35 AM)

This is an animation of the Soviet moves and the indicators where the battles took place ( in the Axis turn ).

[image]local://upfiles/16287/650B5B42937F47C0882A1FD1C1CC85DE.gif[/image]



larryfulkerson -> RE: 1.05.18 beta KLilly vs Fulkerson T54 (9/18/2011 5:07:18 AM)

Here's the OOB, losses, destroyed units and production:

[image]local://upfiles/16287/FBF09250FBA142099E694CA68945CDF8.gif[/image]



larryfulkerson -> RE: 1.05.18 beta KLilly vs Fulkerson T54 (9/18/2011 3:57:34 PM)

Here's the T55 front lines before any Soviet movement has taken place:

[image]local://upfiles/16287/CB107296D3E64B189A8B0992B6B208AE.gif[/image]



larryfulkerson -> RE: 1.05.18 beta KLilly vs Fulkerson T55 (9/18/2011 3:59:41 PM)

Here's my T55 moves. I did a lot of pulling-back in a lot of places. KLilly is finding my weak spots very handy.

[image]local://upfiles/16287/CB6C23E879DF47C090698D2A5111865C.gif[/image]



larryfulkerson -> RE: 1.05.18 beta KLilly vs Fulkerson T55 (9/18/2011 10:47:13 PM)

Here's the T56 front lines before any Soviet movement. KLilly is just making the breakthrough worse and worse. I'm not sure I can contain this breech.

[image]local://upfiles/16287/3B73816D180A477A88DD0A0A08067DD5.gif[/image]



larryfulkerson -> RE: 1.05.18 beta KLilly vs Fulkerson T56 (9/18/2011 10:54:07 PM)

Here's a close-up of the area in question:

[image]local://upfiles/16287/CBFF90C4B6E045ECA186CE5AE3CC3259.gif[/image]



larryfulkerson -> RE: 1.05.18 beta KLilly vs Fulkerson T56 (9/19/2011 1:49:39 AM)

Here's my moves for T56. I did a bunch more pulling back in various places and bombed his spearhead with my bombers. Maybe it'll
help.

[image]local://upfiles/16287/D6FEB27455C548C0ACFE7884560B9153.gif[/image]



larryfulkerson -> RE: 1.05.18 beta KLilly vs Fulkerson T56 (9/19/2011 1:56:06 AM)

I got one good look at the South end of the front lines in the animation above and realized I left a hole and moved the rest of the Soviet
guys to make the hole go away. Thusly:

[image]local://upfiles/16287/6828CF6E3A80480FB011F4C785FBCA70.gif[/image]



larryfulkerson -> RE: 1.05.18 beta KLilly vs Fulkerson T56 (9/19/2011 2:00:28 AM)

This is the OOB, losses, destroyed units, and production:

[image]local://upfiles/16287/FC0BB59499AB40CA83119E4EA431C68C.gif[/image]



larryfulkerson -> RE: 1.05.18 beta KLilly vs Fulkerson T56 (9/19/2011 2:06:16 AM)

Oh, and I forgot to mention that I railed a bunch of stuff out of V-town just in case KLilly gets lucky again.

[image]local://upfiles/16287/478D97A3F6D948BFA1D8189D9ABE491A.gif[/image]



larryfulkerson -> RE: 1.05.23 beta KLilly vs Fulkerson T57 (9/19/2011 2:19:19 PM)

Here's the T57 (16July1942 ) front lines before any Soviet stuff has moved. KLilly broke out of confinement again. This is getting to be
a habit. I'm running out of hole pluggers.

[image]local://upfiles/16287/AC5429FEB0F04476BF56503894620F5C.gif[/image]



larryfulkerson -> RE: 1.05.23 beta KLilly vs Fulkerson T57 (9/19/2011 3:12:20 PM)

I finished moving all my land combat units and thought it might be prudent to rail out 15 Armament Points of industry out of Rostov

[image]local://upfiles/16287/47E2BBB41CE0446BA853D63578C1ABEE.gif[/image]



larryfulkerson -> RE: 1.05.23 beta KLilly vs Fulkerson T57 (9/19/2011 3:20:37 PM)

This is my moves with an overlay showing the recon flights and battle sites

[image]local://upfiles/16287/B7934AF5CD9F4DFA9B38D8DB8EDB0A7F.gif[/image]



larryfulkerson -> RE: 1.05.23 beta KLilly vs Fulkerson T57 (9/19/2011 3:25:27 PM)

This is the OOB, losses, destroyed units, and production:

[image]local://upfiles/16287/1F2FAB6991A24053AB6E1CA039041C6D.gif[/image]



larryfulkerson -> RE: 1.05.23 beta KLilly vs Fulkerson T58 (9/20/2011 6:01:14 PM)

Here's the T58 front lines before any Soviet movement is done.

[image]local://upfiles/16287/11765E4603C64BE7ABFFE3569BCE01AF.gif[/image]



larryfulkerson -> RE: 1.05.23 beta KLilly vs Fulkerson T58 (9/20/2011 6:28:16 PM)

This is the best I could do for moves in the Crimea area:

[image]local://upfiles/16287/5A4FE2245D9B4321A1603967BCDCF186.gif[/image]



M60A3TTS -> RE: 1.05.23 beta KLilly vs Fulkerson T58 (9/20/2011 7:05:28 PM)

If I were in your position, I'd pull back the southern group straight south towards the Crimea and establish a line along the Dnepr to Melitopol.

At the same time strip the north and center using all available rail- forget evacuating factories, and launch a full-scale counteroffensive southwest of Kursk while he is in the open and before he can dig in.  Push towards the Dnepr between Sumy and Kiev.  Use your APs on Guards Rifle Corps, that will give you the biggest bang for the buck.  Push hard and your numbers should be able to prevail.



larryfulkerson -> RE: 1.05.23 beta KLilly vs Fulkerson T58 (9/20/2011 7:10:21 PM)

Here's what it looks like on the east side of the breakout. This is about the best I could do under the circumstances.

[image]local://upfiles/16287/A9327AD3557940B085FAAC7E3007DD29.gif[/image]



larryfulkerson -> RE: 1.05.23 beta KLilly vs Fulkerson T58 (9/20/2011 7:16:39 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: M60A3TTS
If I were in your position, I'd pull back the southern group straight south towards the Crimea and establish a line along the Dnepr to Melitopol.

At the same time strip the north and center using all available rail- forget evacuating factories, and launch a full-scale counteroffensive southwest of Kursk while he is in the open and before he can dig in.  Push towards the Dnepr between Sumy and Kiev.  Use your APs on Guards Rifle Corps, that will give you the biggest bang for the buck.  Push hard and your numbers should be able to prevail.

Unfortunately, I've already moved the effected units but next turn I will endevor to do that. It's a good idea thanks for the tip. I can use
all the help I can get and you've been very helpful in the past for which I'm greatful.



larryfulkerson -> RE: 1.05.23 beta KLilly vs Fulkerson T58 (9/20/2011 7:32:34 PM)

This is just about the best I can do for moves. I've started counter-attacking SW of Kursk, thanks to some good advice from M60A3TTS

[image]local://upfiles/16287/9269CD0C20214D0285531D9674A4B8B2.gif[/image]



Erik Rutins -> RE: 1.05.23 beta KLilly vs Fulkerson T58 (9/20/2011 7:58:14 PM)

Remember, he can't be strong everywhere. Don't let him get away with determining the strategic initiative across the entire map. Where you don't have contact with his lines, make contact and find his weak spot, then push hard. While you need to withdraw when he breaks through, you can also make efforts to put pressure on the flanks of his drive to keep him from feeling secure. More Rifle Corps would be a very good thing for you. If you don't have a reserve army or two, start making them, you should always try to have some reserves.

The best time to counter-attack is definitely while he's still on the move, before he can fortify. Don't let him cut off and destroy the forces you've withdrawn towards the Crimea. Those can serve a very good purpose in extending his front lines if you manage to fortify them there. You should already have the main entrances to the Crimea fortified, I don't see anyone there right now.

Regards,

- Erik



Flapdrol -> RE: 1.05.23 beta KLilly vs Fulkerson T58 (9/20/2011 8:38:09 PM)

I see corps in Lapland, stacked frontlines in the North and Center, an entire pink Front NW of Velikiye Luki which is having a holiday as 90% is in reserve: all in at least 2 million troops that can be used to stop this. It is clear that all of his offensive power is in the south, yet you are maintaining enormous reserves up north. 



larryfulkerson -> RE: 1.05.23 beta KLilly vs Fulkerson T58 (9/20/2011 9:19:13 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Flapdrol
I see corps in Lapland, stacked frontlines in the North and Center, an entire pink Front NW of Velikiye Luki which is having a holiday as 90% is in reserve: all in at least 2 million troops that can be used to stop this. It is clear that all of his offensive power is in the south, yet you are maintaining enormous reserves up north. 

Yes, you are quite correct. I've already started railing troops south. It's clear that more troop power needs to be sent south. Good catch and thank you.



larryfulkerson -> RE: 1.05.23 beta KLilly vs Fulkerson T58 (9/20/2011 9:23:19 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Erik Rutins
Remember, he can't be strong everywhere. Don't let him get away with determining the strategic initiative across the entire map. Where you don't have contact with his lines, make contact and find his weak spot, then push hard. While you need to withdraw when he breaks through, you can also make efforts to put pressure on the flanks of his drive to keep him from feeling secure. More Rifle Corps would be a very good thing for you. If you don't have a reserve army or two, start making them, you should always try to have some reserves.

The best time to counter-attack is definitely while he's still on the move, before he can fortify. Don't let him cut off and destroy the forces you've withdrawn towards the Crimea. Those can serve a very good purpose in extending his front lines if you manage to fortify them there. You should already have the main entrances to the Crimea fortified, I don't see anyone there right now.

Yep, I need some strategic reserves....that much is clear. I'm short on AP's at the moment but as soon as I can I'm going to start building
Rifle Corps and put them to use pushing against Axis weak spots. The pounding that took place during the '41-'42 winter has to
continue so as to put pressure on the Axis manpower, which I'm pretty sure is a good place to hit the Axis since he's not very well
suited to any manpower surge anytime soon. I need to pull all those guys in the Crimea south and fortify the entrance to the peninsula for sure. Thanks for your interest etc.



fiva55 -> RE: 1.05.23 beta KLilly vs Fulkerson T58 (9/20/2011 9:25:14 PM)

With the amount of troops you have available, you could double the de depth of your defence. Clearly just a carpet is insufficient at this stage.




M60A3TTS -> RE: 1.05.23 beta KLilly vs Fulkerson T58 (9/20/2011 9:51:48 PM)

Now's the time to be bold.  Pull every single guards rifle division and rifle corps out of the line which is north of Kursk, rail them south and throw them into the attack. Seriously, gathering over 50 rifle divisions and hammering a frontal area of 80-100 miles is not out of your capability.  Pour in the cavalry and tank units to exploit.  Keep attacking and bleed those German divisions white.

And don't forget to have support units attached to all your corps.



larryfulkerson -> RE: 1.05.23 beta KLilly vs Fulkerson T58 (9/20/2011 11:55:13 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: M60A3TTS
Now's the time to be bold.  Pull every single guards rifle division and rifle corps out of the line which is north of Kursk, rail them south and throw them into the attack. Seriously, gathering over 50 rifle divisions and hammering a frontal area of 80-100 miles is not out of your capability.  Pour in the cavalry and tank units to exploit.  Keep attacking and bleed those German divisions white.

And don't forget to have support units attached to all your corps.

You guys talked me into it. Okay, twist my arm, I'll do it. I've already started attacking SW of Kursk and got some good results too.



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