Sub vectoring question (Full Version)

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seii taishôgun -> Sub vectoring question (8/6/2011 6:43:10 PM)

I'm playing as Japan.

Is there a way to get ASW TFs to attack nearby subs that might be slightly outside of their patrol path?

Let me set a scenario up:
1. I have an ASW TF equiped with 2 DD that is currently following a patrol route in a northernly direction.
2. I have multiple air groups of aircraft flying naval search missions.

If naval search aircraft locate/detect an enemy sub 1-2 hexes to the east of my ASW TF is there a way to set my ASW TF to break its assigned patrol route and head east to search for the enemy sub? This is what the Max Reaction level governs - yes?

I want to use my ASW TFs efficiently. It looks like a high detection level improves the ability of an ASW TF to attack a sub but I don't know if I can improve my ASW TFs chance to attack the sub.

The factors for successfully locating and perorming an ASW attack are Naval and Aggression for the leader, a decent experience level of the crew, detection level of the enemy sub, the Max Reaction level of the TF, and the weather - yes?

And sonar would improve that detection level when it becomes available - yes?

ST



Mynok -> RE: Sub vectoring question (8/6/2011 8:43:23 PM)


React range? I think that will do that for you, though I can't say I've seen it happen myself.



Crackaces -> RE: Sub vectoring question (8/6/2011 9:23:32 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Mynok


React range? I think that will do that for you, though I can't say I've seen it happen myself.



I think Leadership has a lot to do with this .. in Jan 1942 I set react to '2' and my guys reacted AWAY from the threat, actually away from his patrol zone! At first opportunity I fired the commander :)

I believe you and others have given me the best hints at the best ASW .. which is "Don't go looking for trouble, locate and avoid, and in high traffic areas escort escort escort .." The thought of contact, identify, locate, and target for a ASW strategy, in at least the stock version of the game, has not been a friutful use of assests. Just to say although, I have parked a ASW force at locations I am pretty sure the Sub TF is going to patrol to blockade my port .. that has been very sucessful using the Brit DD forces in the land of OZ. Killing a sub off King Is., one off Newcastle, another right off Sydney. I assume after the USN ASW upgrades will carry over to ports like LA, Seattle, and SF ...



Itdepends -> RE: Sub vectoring question (8/7/2011 2:56:16 AM)

Setting react range will do it.



Mundy -> RE: Sub vectoring question (8/7/2011 3:43:51 AM)

That and always re-tweaking the patrol zones



seii taishôgun -> RE: Sub vectoring question (8/7/2011 4:19:14 AM)

Thanx all - for the thoughts and confirmation.

ST

[image]local://upfiles/38705/2062B8B6CE1C4E0A8CEAA4846DE37E7A.jpg[/image]



crsutton -> RE: Sub vectoring question (8/7/2011 5:01:49 AM)

ASW TFs will react, the real factor is detection. So the higher the detection rating on the sub the more likely the ASW force will react. Mid to late war, Allied ASW forces are incredibly deadly. However, one caution. The ASW force if defending an area where enemy air power a threat should not be set to react more than a hex or two. I have had mine react multiple times in one night phase and end up very far away from the friendly base and air support.



seii taishôgun -> RE: Sub vectoring question (8/7/2011 5:05:31 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: crsutton

ASW TFs will react, the real factor is detection. So the higher the detection rating on the sub the more likely the ASW force will react. Mid to late war, Allied ASW forces are incredibly deadly. However, one caution. The ASW force if defending an area where enemy air power a threat should not be set to react more than a hex or two. I have had mine react multiple times in one night phase and end up very far away from the friendly base and air support.



Now that's something I didn't consider... Thanks much for that advice. [:)]




derhexer -> RE: Sub vectoring question (8/7/2011 7:52:05 PM)

quote:

I'm playing as Japan.

Is there a way to get ASW TFs to attack nearby subs that might be slightly outside of their patrol path?

Let me set a scenario up:
1. I have an ASW TF equiped with 2 DD that is currently following a patrol route in a northernly direction.
2. I have multiple air groups of aircraft flying naval search missions.

If naval search aircraft locate/detect an enemy sub 1-2 hexes to the east of my ASW TF is there a way to set my ASW TF to break its assigned patrol route and head east to search for the enemy sub? This is what the Max Reaction level governs - yes?

I want to use my ASW TFs efficiently. It looks like a high detection level improves the ability of an ASW TF to attack a sub but I don't know if I can improve my ASW TFs chance to attack the sub.

The factors for successfully locating and perorming an ASW attack are Naval and Aggression for the leader, a decent experience level of the crew, detection level of the enemy sub, the Max Reaction level of the TF, and the weather - yes?

And sonar would improve that detection level when it becomes available - yes?

ST


Set the react range to 2 or 3 and, if possible, assign commanders who have high initiative and leadership. Also, change Retirement Allowed to Remain on Station.



Alpha77 -> RE: Sub vectoring question (8/9/2011 6:40:19 PM)


quote:

Also, change Retirement Allowed to Remain on Station.


Why ?



LoBaron -> RE: Sub vectoring question (8/10/2011 5:41:25 AM)

quote:

Set the react range to 2 or 3 and, if possible, assign commanders who have high initiative and leadership. Also, change Retirement Allowed to Remain on Station.


No. On normal movement you need "retirement allowed" setting and TF at homeport to trigger reaction,
when using patrol zoness the selection is of no impact anyway.

The key leader attribute is aggression, the higher the better. I think you meant "inspiration", this has no impact on TF reaction.



PaxMondo -> RE: Sub vectoring question (8/10/2011 5:48:50 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: LoBaron

No. On normal movement you need "retirement allowed" setting and TF at homeport to trigger reaction,
when using patrol zoness the selection is of no impact anyway.

The key leader attribute is aggression, the higher the better. I think you meant "inspiration", this has no impact on TF reaction.

consistent with my experiences. NAV also seems to help for ASW, not for reaction but for prosecution.



offenseman -> RE: Sub vectoring question (8/10/2011 7:57:05 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: PaxMondo

quote:

ORIGINAL: LoBaron

No. On normal movement you need "retirement allowed" setting and TF at homeport to trigger reaction,
when using patrol zoness the selection is of no impact anyway.

The key leader attribute is aggression, the higher the better. I think you meant "inspiration", this has no impact on TF reaction.

consistent with my experiences. NAV also seems to help for ASW, not for reaction but for prosecution.


I concur with both these points. ASW ships of the IJN are most often crewed by a cautious skipper. Not changing those out will really hurt the ASW efforts you make. The cautious skipper has to pretty much ram the sub (same hex) to prosecute it and my impression is that the cautious skipper will give up the search earlier as well.



seii taishôgun -> Is there a special mix of ships that works best for IJN ASW TF? (8/11/2011 6:05:40 AM)

Thanks for all of the continued info and sharing of expereience you guys have accumulated!

So on patrol it doesn't matter of the ship is set to retirement allowed or not.

Aggression and Naval are the key attributes for the leader.

Can I ask if there is a special mix that works best for a japanese ASW TF? All DDs? 2DD 2PB?


ST



dr.hal -> RE: Is there a special mix of ships that works best for IJN ASW TF? (8/11/2011 12:29:19 PM)

Very true in the IJN, second line units get second rate leaders, ASW was not considered a first line operation until after the USN started to obtain effective torpedoes.... The Bashido code had its weak points!



crsutton -> RE: Sub vectoring question (8/11/2011 10:01:46 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: derhexer

quote:

I'm playing as Japan.

Is there a way to get ASW TFs to attack nearby subs that might be slightly outside of their patrol path?

Let me set a scenario up:
1. I have an ASW TF equiped with 2 DD that is currently following a patrol route in a northernly direction.
2. I have multiple air groups of aircraft flying naval search missions.

If naval search aircraft locate/detect an enemy sub 1-2 hexes to the east of my ASW TF is there a way to set my ASW TF to break its assigned patrol route and head east to search for the enemy sub? This is what the Max Reaction level governs - yes?

I want to use my ASW TFs efficiently. It looks like a high detection level improves the ability of an ASW TF to attack a sub but I don't know if I can improve my ASW TFs chance to attack the sub.

The factors for successfully locating and perorming an ASW attack are Naval and Aggression for the leader, a decent experience level of the crew, detection level of the enemy sub, the Max Reaction level of the TF, and the weather - yes?

And sonar would improve that detection level when it becomes available - yes?

ST


Set the react range to 2 or 3 and, if possible, assign commanders who have high initiative and leadership. Also, change Retirement Allowed to Remain on Station.


I don't think this is the case. I know that subs set to remain on station will not react and assume that is the same case with ASW TFs. Remain on station is just that-"Don't move." You can instead set a patrol zone for the ASW and then it will react. If you want it to only cover one hex, then just set one patrol zone hex and leave the other two blank. Your ASW will then stay in that one hex but retain the ability to react from that hex.



dr.hal -> RE: Sub vectoring question (8/11/2011 10:25:03 PM)

In my experience crsutton is spot on. In my present PMEM game, IJN subs are all over the Pearl area, what I've done to counter is to put patrols out there into ONE hex with a reaction of about 4 hexes.... and those boys have been ALL over the surrounding waters putting dents into and actually killing a few IJN subs.... so to get the ASW TFs to react, set their home point to a base, set their destination to that same base and THEN set a patrol zone... it can be one, two or three hexes depending on the ground you want to cover....and set the react range to cover the remaining hexes that you have not programed in by the patrol hexes. Don't forget to also put in how many days you want the TF to linger, if you don't, they will return home the same day they reach their target hex!!!!



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