RE: Docup (A) vs Koniu (J) (Full Version)

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obvert -> RE: Docup (A) vs Koniu (J) (10/13/2014 7:02:02 PM)

Looks good koniu. How are the Kuriles doing up there?



koniu -> RE: Docup (A) vs Koniu (J) (10/13/2014 7:37:31 PM)

Kuriles are ok but not 100% ready. Each base have at lest 300-400AV but i still have lot of troops siting in Tokyo. As soon as they take needed replacements and i will have free ships i will move another 1000AV there



[image]local://upfiles/37745/01FA391CE84B46F9A69A1ABFD79A141A.jpg[/image]



obvert -> RE: Docup (A) vs Koniu (J) (10/13/2014 7:42:41 PM)

Impressive. Looks like you're giving him a steep mountain to climb this late in game. Well done! [:)]



koniu -> RE: Docup (A) vs Koniu (J) (10/13/2014 7:43:47 PM)

17 July 44

Battle of Ambon.
Allies close Ambon AF today. It was bloody day. Dont have time to give details so only air loses. I had 150 planes in Ambon, at end of day it was total 20 planes operational and damaged.
My boys fight to last.

[image]local://upfiles/37745/05E82F3130F64874B00FF99D62A37824.jpg[/image]



obvert -> RE: Docup (A) vs Koniu (J) (10/13/2014 9:15:02 PM)

Is he using B-29s to bomb airfields? [X(][&:]

If he is then you're gaining ground even while losing it. Those have to be taking away your industry and oil systematically from the moment they arrive. Even little size 40 LI factories and oil fields are worth B-29 strikes.



mind_messing -> RE: Docup (A) vs Koniu (J) (10/13/2014 9:40:12 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: koniu

Map of Marianas
Everything is in place. It will not be better. Each base have between 700-1000AV with forts 6 or 7





700-1000AV each? If so, I don't think Almagan is worth that much (no more than 200 AV for me), and I wouldn't rate Amatahan or Agrihan with any more than 400 AV either.

Also, I see that Ulithi is ungarrisoned - it's got a great port, and together with Yap it can provide the Allies two nices bases to put pressure on Babeldaob and outflank Guam and Saipan.



koniu -> RE: Docup (A) vs Koniu (J) (10/14/2014 4:30:50 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: mind_messing


quote:

ORIGINAL: koniu

Map of Marianas
Everything is in place. It will not be better. Each base have between 700-1000AV with forts 6 or 7





700-1000AV each? If so, I don't think Almagan is worth that much (no more than 200 AV for me), and I wouldn't rate Amatahan or Agrihan with any more than 400 AV either.

Also, I see that Ulithi is ungarrisoned - it's got a great port, and together with Yap it can provide the Allies two nices bases to put pressure on Babeldaob and outflank Guam and Saipan.G

Everything West of Ulithi is not reedy yet. I have troops prepped but no ability to transport them. I hope in less than month they will land there. Until then i have KB in range

Also note that 1 point of AV is not always equal of 1AV point
Places like Guam and Saipan have AV build on good trained, well equipped divisions with extra tanks and arty units, while those dot bases are mostly garrison units without heavy equipment. I placed my units to have good balance between raw AV and quality of units.



koniu -> RE: Docup (A) vs Koniu (J) (10/14/2014 4:37:05 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: obvert

Is he using B-29s to bomb airfields? [X(][&:]

If he is then you're gaining ground even while losing it. Those have to be taking away your industry and oil systematically from the moment they arrive. Even little size 40 LI factories and oil fields are worth B-29 strikes.


You are right about B-29.
Docup know that also. Actually those 3 bombers where shot down over oil filed one hex north of Balipapan. Docup send only 7 B-29. 3 where shot down, 4 was damaged and still 5 oil fields where destroyed.

Defensive fire of B-29 is huge. 10 Jap fighters where damaged during that ride
N1K2 is good plane but B-29 is fast so not much time to intercept.

I am sending extra J2M5 units to support N1K2.
But i waiting when A7M2 arrive. Still two months before that happen and first planes for sure will go to KB so no SAM for LBA until December

I don`t want to use Ki-84r to defend oil fileds. Army have enough job with fighting allied fighters in Burma and Ambon area.



PaxMondo -> RE: Docup (A) vs Koniu (J) (10/14/2014 12:37:00 PM)

What is your fighter production by model?



MrKane -> RE: Docup (A) vs Koniu (J) (10/14/2014 12:59:55 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: koniu

quote:

ORIGINAL: obvert

Is he using B-29s to bomb airfields? [X(][&:]

If he is then you're gaining ground even while losing it. Those have to be taking away your industry and oil systematically from the moment they arrive. Even little size 40 LI factories and oil fields are worth B-29 strikes.


You are right about B-29.
Docup know that also. Actually those 3 bombers where shot down over oil filed one hex north of Balipapan. Docup send only 7 B-29. 3 where shot down, 4 was damaged and still 5 oil fields where destroyed.

Defensive fire of B-29 is huge. 10 Jap fighters where damaged during that ride
N1K2 is good plane but B-29 is fast so not much time to intercept.

I am sending extra J2M5 units to support N1K2.
But i waiting when A7M2 arrive. Still two months before that happen and first planes for sure will go to KB so no SAM for LBA until December

I don`t want to use Ki-84r to defend oil fileds. Army have enough job with fighting allied fighters in Burma and Ambon area.


I was very disappointed with A7M2 in my game vs GJ. N1K5-J was much better for B-29 hunting and to fight off allied late fighters.
It did not perform better as bomber killer when compared with N1K2 and fail completely as late war fighter. Anyway still need to replace zeros on carriers

In army arsenal I have semi good result with Ki-44-IIc and Ki-100-II as bomber hunter, even vs B-29. The best I IAJ fighter I had, was K-83, mostly due speed and range.
I hope you are doing R&D on K-83 airframe.



koniu -> RE: Docup (A) vs Koniu (J) (10/14/2014 1:39:27 PM)

Fighters

IJA production/pool

Ki-43IIb Oscar 122/1806
Ki-44c Tojo 200/1100
Ki-84r Frank 459/766+260"a"

IJN production/pool

A6M5c Zero 140/5 (+500 M5 and M5b)
N1K2-J George 150/1161
J2M5 180/159


R&D production/Availability

A7M2 Sam 240/September `44
Ki-83 180/Spring `45
J7W1 Shinden 150/Summer `45



koniu -> RE: Docup (A) vs Koniu (J) (10/14/2014 1:50:52 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: MrKane


quote:

ORIGINAL: koniu

quote:

ORIGINAL: obvert

Is he using B-29s to bomb airfields? [X(][&:]

If he is then you're gaining ground even while losing it. Those have to be taking away your industry and oil systematically from the moment they arrive. Even little size 40 LI factories and oil fields are worth B-29 strikes.


You are right about B-29.
Docup know that also. Actually those 3 bombers where shot down over oil filed one hex north of Balipapan. Docup send only 7 B-29. 3 where shot down, 4 was damaged and still 5 oil fields where destroyed.

Defensive fire of B-29 is huge. 10 Jap fighters where damaged during that ride
N1K2 is good plane but B-29 is fast so not much time to intercept.

I am sending extra J2M5 units to support N1K2.
But i waiting when A7M2 arrive. Still two months before that happen and first planes for sure will go to KB so no SAM for LBA until December

I don`t want to use Ki-84r to defend oil fileds. Army have enough job with fighting allied fighters in Burma and Ambon area.


I was very disappointed with A7M2 in my game vs GJ. N1K5-J was much better for B-29 hunting and to fight off allied late fighters.
It did not perform better as bomber killer when compared with N1K2 and fail completely as late war fighter. Anyway still need to replace zeros on carriers

In army arsenal I have semi good result with Ki-44-IIc and Ki-100-II as bomber hunter, even vs B-29. The best I IAJ fighter I had, was K-83, mostly due speed and range.
I hope you are doing R&D on K-83 airframe.


I hope A7M2 will work for me. I expecting first planes arriving to KB in 40 days.
2 month later i will start replacing LBA units with it.



PaxMondo -> RE: Docup (A) vs Koniu (J) (10/15/2014 1:44:08 PM)

I've had decent luck with the Sam ... but I find Frank is better. For the IJN, the Sam at least puts them on almost equal footing. A6M is just too slow.



koniu -> RE: Docup (A) vs Koniu (J) (10/15/2014 3:08:46 PM)

17 Jully 1944

Burma
Franks sweep Ramrre island. 30 Franks for 40 allied planes

HEX 56:54
This hex is strange. During this turn allied troops enter hex. They where moving from north road. There was no river crossing but somehow it force allies to bombard.

Ground combat at 56,54 (near Moulmein)

Allied Bombardment attack

Attacking force 735 troops, 58 guns, 49 vehicles, Assault Value = 1582

Defending force 98848 troops, 1293 guns, 1570 vehicles, Assault Value = 3434

Japanese ground losses:
73 casualties reported
Squads: 1 destroyed, 1 disabled
Non Combat: 0 destroyed, 0 disabled
Engineers: 1 destroyed, 2 disabled

Allied ground losses:
Guns lost 25 (6 destroyed, 19 disabled)
Vehicles lost 8 (3 destroyed, 5 disabled)

Assaulting units:
3rd New Chinese/B Corps
6th Australian Division
3rd New Chinese/A Corps
75th Indian Brigade
3rd New Chinese/C Corps
98th Field Artillery Battalion
6th Mixed A/T Mtr Regiment

Defending units:
8th Division
21st Division
1st Tank Division
10th Division
16th Division
2nd Guards Division
1st Division
2nd Tank Division
15th Army
10th RF Gun Battalion
3rd Ind. Mountain Gun Regiment
2nd Ind.Art.Mortar Battalion
9th Ind.Hvy.Art. Battalion
52nd Field AA Battalion
3rd Mortar Battalion
50th Field AA Battalion
8th RF Gun Battalion
18th Medium Field Artillery Regiment
28th Fld AA Gun Co
9th RF Gun Battalion
1st Art.Mortar Regiment
56th Field AA Battalion
16th JNAF AF Unit




GreyJoy -> RE: Docup (A) vs Koniu (J) (10/15/2014 3:16:41 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: PaxMondo

I've had decent luck with the Sam ... but I find Frank is better. For the IJN, the Sam at least puts them on almost equal footing. A6M is just too slow.



Don't know why Mr.Kane thinks the SAM wasn't good enough in our game. I, as the allied player in that game, found that the SAM was more than enough to handle my F6F, fighting in a condition of substantial parity...which is more than enough for Japan in a CV engagement

Also the SAM, once put ashore, is just as good as the N1K2, which is an excellent bomber killer and a more than decent dogfighter.




obvert -> RE: Docup (A) vs Koniu (J) (10/15/2014 8:52:09 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: GreyJoy


quote:

ORIGINAL: PaxMondo

I've had decent luck with the Sam ... but I find Frank is better. For the IJN, the Sam at least puts them on almost equal footing. A6M is just too slow.



Don't know why Mr.Kane thinks the SAM wasn't good enough in our game. I, as the allied player in that game, found that the SAM was more than enough to handle my F6F, fighting in a condition of substantial parity...which is more than enough for Japan in a CV engagement

Also the SAM, once put ashore, is just as good as the N1K2, which is an excellent bomber killer and a more than decent dogfighter.



+1

It's not a plane to use sweeping the skies. It's a great escort and CV defense airframe. It's secondary purpose on land for me was exactly as Nick states; a lower lever CAP bomber killer and dogfighter. It needs numbers to be able to fight the best Allied planes, but it can. It also needs the Frank on the to pot the layered CAP to take the initial hit and then dive in to help once the Allied planes go down in.



koniu -> RE: Docup (A) vs Koniu (J) (10/16/2014 4:36:36 AM)

Thank for comments.
I newer use A7M2 in fight but looking only on stats A7M2 is better from any navy conventional Japanese fighter in game (not counting A7M2-J and J7W1). Even comparing SAM with army fighters he still is good. I personally place Sam higher from Ki-84a bull lower from Ki-84b/r.

I will still use N1K2 and J2M5 because they are simply good planes.
N1K2 because or range will be used as escort fighter probably until war ends.
J2M5 will be in service also for long, 382mph, grate climb make him good plane. Jack biggest weakness is SR3 but in `45 i will use it mostly in Japan where i will have good numbers of AV support and aces to AF lvl 9


Also it is only Japanese CV capable fighter that is better from F6F and good enough to fight with F4U. Need also to mention that Sam is prabably only SR2 fighter capable of 392mph

For me Sam is must have plane






koniu -> RE: Docup (A) vs Koniu (J) (10/16/2014 4:40:05 PM)

18 June 1944

Burma
Allies bombing my troops in Maulmein and in hex north of base. Jungle hex plus big forts almost make them immune to allied bombs. On other hand heavy concentration of flak in Moulmein works. Especially those 32 12cm AA guns doing good. for me. Every turn allies losing 10-15 bombers with much more damaged. Each wave look like that.

Morning Air attack on Moulmein , at 55,55

Weather in hex: Severe storms

Raid detected at 78 NM, estimated altitude 14,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 26 minutes

Japanese aircraft
no flights

Allied aircraft
B-24D1 Liberator x 19
B-24J Liberator x 49

No Japanese losses

Allied aircraft losses
B-24D1 Liberator: 5 damaged
B-24J Liberator: 22 damaged
B-24D1 Liberator: 2 destroyed by flak

Airbase hits 7
Airbase supply hits 1
Runway hits 12

I have luck today. Docup send some Battleships to bombard Moulmein. I think we will not see Queen Elizabeth for some time[:D] Even Japan can hit something in night and it was in moonlight 3%[&o]

Night Air attack on TF, near Moulmein at 55,55

Weather in hex: Partial cloud

Raid detected at 69 NM, estimated altitude 10,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 22 minutes

Japanese aircraft
B6N2 Jill x 6

Japanese aircraft losses
B6N2 Jill: 2 damaged
B6N2 Jill: 2 destroyed by flak

Allied Ships
BB Queen Elizabeth, Torpedo hits 1
BC Renown







koniu -> RE: Docup (A) vs Koniu (J) (10/31/2014 6:22:09 AM)

Hi i am back
In last 14 days we manage to play only 10 turns.
Actually You are not miss much.

It is now 28 June 1944

In Burma front again is static. Docup moving his troops to positions probably preparing them to offensive against Moulmein. In north Burma Allied troops moving tough jungle toward Chiang Mai. Japanese troops waiting for them.
Thai army will surrender in 5 days. I was planing small suicidal offensive with them but i decide that it is not worth supplies i will spend.

Docup trying to close Moulmein AF from sea. So far without success. He is lucky when he hit something on ground. Having TB on nigh attack helping lot i think when TF is bombarded from air is losing lot of aim.
More success Docup have in air. He close AF two times already but heavy flak is damaging/destroying so many bombers that after 2-3 days he must hold all bombard missions for week.(last raid end with 20% loses from flak) and with all those eng in base i am able to repair AF in 3-4 days.

In Ambon area is quiet. I am moving lost of troops in this area reinforcing first and second line of defense. I last week i airlifted something like 1000AV by and another 500 by sea.


Salomons
Quiet. Planing evacuation of Rabaul.

Marshals
Also quiet. Usual bombing raids against isolated Jap garrisons. Docup is capturing dot bases.

North Pacific
Mostly quiet but on 27 June Japanese sub sunk with all planes on board Casablanca class CVE[:D]


If You have question ask, I will answer ASAP



koniu -> RE: Docup (A) vs Koniu (J) (11/8/2014 9:48:43 AM)

Hi am I back. This time for real.

We have now 2 August 1944

Burma
Front is static. So far. Allies pushing trough Jungle toward Chiang Mai. I will have there soon 1200AV. East of Chiang Mai Japanese troops in 3x terrain blocking ~3000 allied AV.

70k troops is moving toward Moulmein. Docup probably mess with settings and Indian Tank Brigade shock alone trough river. It don`t end well for them

Ground combat at Moulmein (55,55)

Allied Shock attack

Attacking force 2856 troops, 10 guns, 282 vehicles, Assault Value = 209

Defending force 118040 troops, 1603 guns, 2054 vehicles, Assault Value = 3495

Assault collapses, attacking force wiped out

Allied ground losses:
996 casualties reported
Squads: 58 destroyed, 0 disabled
Non Combat: 184 destroyed, 0 disabled
Engineers: 7 destroyed, 0 disabled
Guns lost 11 (11 destroyed, 0 disabled)
Vehicles lost 411 (411 destroyed, 0 disabled)
Units destroyed 1

Assaulting units:
255th Indian Tank Brigade

Defending units:
10th Division
1st Division
16th Division
2nd Guards Division
1st Tank Division
8th Division
33rd Division
2nd Tank/C Division
5th Naval Construction Battalion
15th JAAF Base Force
9th RF Gun Battalion
122nd AA Regiment
15th Army
18th Medium Field Artillery Regiment
16th JNAF AF Unit
115th AA Regiment
15th JAAF AF Bn
3rd Medium Field Artillery Regiment
Southern Army
52nd Field AA Battalion
50th Field AA Battalion
4th JAAF Base Force
1st Art.Mortar Regiment
28th Army
8th JAAF AF Bn
55th Field AA Battalion
56th Field AA Battalion
11th RF Gun Battalion
9th Ind.Hvy.Art. Battalion
28th Fld AA Gun Co
8th RF Gun Battalion
10th RF Gun Battalion
2nd Ind.Art.Mortar Battalion
57th Field AA Battalion
3rd Mortar Battalion
3rd Ind. Mountain Gun Regiment
116th AA Regiment
6th Ind. Field Artillery Battalion
Burma Area Army
17th JAAF AF Bn

Near Phuket damage in June Cruiser CA Kumano was finally in shape to move south to Singer. Sadly he met allied sub. CA still on surface, no fires, but will not probably manage to arrive nearest port.

Sub attack near Phuket at 49,68

Japanese Ships
CA Kumano, Torpedo hits 1, heavy damage
DMS W-10
E Sado
SC Ch 22

Allied Ships
SS Spiteful, hits 21, heavy damage



Rest of map is mostly quiet. I see lot of activiti in Marshal islands. But i will not fight there.

B-29 visit Samarinda. No oil hits, 4 bombers destroyed. Day earlier B-29 bombard Shikuka oil wells. They score only 3 hits but somehow 30 (all) wells are disabled. I will not repair them.





koniu -> RE: Docup (A) vs Koniu (J) (11/9/2014 8:18:06 AM)

3 August 1944

Sumatra
B-29 night ride in Medan. No oil hits.

Night Air attack on Medan , at 46,76

Weather in hex: Moderate rain

Raid detected at 46 NM, estimated altitude 11,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 14 minutes

Japanese aircraft
J1N1-S Irving x 9

Allied aircraft
B-29-1 Superfort x 6

Japanese aircraft losses
J1N1-S Irving: 1 destroyed

Ambon
Heavy sweeps and bombing of base. 100 B-24 is keeping base closed.
Defense of Ambon is ready. 600AV, fort 6, 3x terrain, Base forces, AT and AA guns.
Similar forces protecting Namlea

Rabaul
SAG protecting base was attacked by night bombers. It force ships to manurers and that end with this "CL Oi collides with CL Yahagi"

R&D
Dedicated Kamikaze plane R&D is moving fast. Ki-115b will be available in January `45
I will build 150+ of them.

I plan to use few types of planes as Kamikaze
K-115b Tsurugi- 385mph, 800kg, range 6
Ki-84a/r Frank - 392/399mph, 2x250kg range 7
Ki-43IIb/III Oscar - 341/358mph 2x250, range 8/10
Ki-67Ia (T) Peggy - 334mph 2x250kg, range 17 - long range kamikaze



obvert -> RE: Docup (A) vs Koniu (J) (11/9/2014 5:49:06 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: koniu

R&D
Dedicated Kamikaze plane R&D is moving fast. Ki-115b will be available in January `45
I will build 150+ of them.

I plan to use few types of planes as Kamikaze
K-115b Tsurugi- 385mph, 800kg, range 6
Ki-84a/r Frank - 392/399mph, 2x250kg range 7
Ki-43IIb/III Oscar - 341/358mph 2x250, range 8/10
Ki-67Ia (T) Peggy - 334mph 2x250kg, range 17 - long range kamikaze



You may want to consider the Grace. Range 10/13 with 2 x 250kg and 350mph!

The Peggy is pretty good, as is the Frances. The Grace is awesome!

Your Judys will also do well, and I found it tougher to get fighters and things like the Tsurugi to fly consistently. Not sure why. But you have to think about durability with kamis as well, and although the speed and load are great with the K-115b, the durability is crap, so not a lot get through. Oscar has the same issue, although it does have armor.



koniu -> RE: Docup (A) vs Koniu (J) (11/9/2014 6:35:22 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: obvert

You may want to consider the Grace. Range 10/13 with 2 x 250kg and 350mph!

The Peggy is pretty good, as is the Frances. The Grace is awesome!

Your Judys will also do well, and I found it tougher to get fighters and things like the Tsurugi to fly consistently. Not sure why. But you have to think about durability with kamis as well, and although the speed and load are great with the K-115b, the durability is crap, so not a lot get through. Oscar has the same issue, although it does have armor.


I know that Frances and Grace are great. But kamikaze mission will be only fly by Army units.

I already have ~3500+ trained army pilots in low naval skill. Navy will fly conventional missions only. Navy pool is full of naval and torpedo trained pilots (~4000+ pilots).
If i add to that ~1000+ army pilots trained in naval attack and ~500+ in torpedo I have 9000 trained pilots in pools. And i don`t counting here pilots that are siting in KB and in LBA units that are not training pilots but are ready to combat so another ~1000 pilots there. That give me nice number of 10000[X(] pilots trained in attack against ships.





obvert -> RE: Docup (A) vs Koniu (J) (11/9/2014 9:18:50 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: koniu


quote:

ORIGINAL: obvert

You may want to consider the Grace. Range 10/13 with 2 x 250kg and 350mph!

The Peggy is pretty good, as is the Frances. The Grace is awesome!

Your Judys will also do well, and I found it tougher to get fighters and things like the Tsurugi to fly consistently. Not sure why. But you have to think about durability with kamis as well, and although the speed and load are great with the K-115b, the durability is crap, so not a lot get through. Oscar has the same issue, although it does have armor.


I know that Frances and Grace are great. But kamikaze mission will be only fly by Army units.

I already have ~3500+ trained army pilots in low naval skill. Navy will fly conventional missions only. Navy pool is full of naval and torpedo trained pilots (~4000+ pilots).
If i add to that ~1000+ army pilots trained in naval attack and ~500+ in torpedo I have 9000 trained pilots in pools. And i don`t counting here pilots that are siting in KB and in LBA units that are not training pilots but are ready to combat so another ~1000 pilots there. That give me nice number of 10000[X(] pilots trained in attack against ships.


All good reasoning now, but soon you'll get a bunch of navy training units as well, big ones! Those can train hundreds of kamis a month. Maybe you won't need them, but come 45 you never know.



koniu -> RE: Docup (A) vs Koniu (J) (11/10/2014 5:33:19 AM)

You are probably right. I can adjust my training program little to train some kamikaze pilots. I must add that i have only 252 pilots available to training as we speak
I also thinking about limiting navy pilots torpedo training. Few reasons for that. Army already is training torpedo pilots so they can take that job in small fraction from navy and with A7A2 and D4Y4 on-line i believe DB should be Japanese weapon of chose

There will be another delay in turns. Docup laptop KIA



[image]local://upfiles/37745/81C3914F786042398BC31384F162BCC2.jpg[/image]



koniu -> RE: Docup (A) vs Koniu (J) (11/11/2014 8:07:34 AM)

I have some time before Docup will fix his laptop so i will catch up with AAR

At first fleet compassion at end July 44


[image]local://upfiles/37745/EEB3D3BD259F4DC3B46302B7C89C63EA.jpg[/image]



koniu -> RE: Docup (A) vs Koniu (J) (11/11/2014 8:19:26 AM)

KB
[image]local://upfiles/37745/CDE659093AC749C1B88B125A83AF4C6C.jpg[/image]



koniu -> RE: Docup (A) vs Koniu (J) (11/11/2014 8:44:44 AM)

Economy chart


[image]local://upfiles/37745/D891CCE06C174EEEB4DD0821617508C0.jpg[/image]



koniu -> RE: Docup (A) vs Koniu (J) (11/11/2014 8:58:25 AM)

R&D
[image]local://upfiles/37745/D6EAC721BB5C48BAB19BDECAE86C5CB2.jpg[/image]



koniu -> RE: Docup (A) vs Koniu (J) (11/11/2014 9:02:09 AM)

Air Production


[image]local://upfiles/37745/9D9159F605AA44D4B2656877B7D4CC72.jpg[/image]



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