RE: Bwheatley vs abulbulian GC 1.5.18 beta (no abulbulian) (Full Version)

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bwheatley -> RE: Bwheatley vs abulbulian GC 1.5.18 beta (no abulbulian) (10/18/2011 7:19:18 PM)

Hearing from ara he is a bit unhappy with the turn. He's bummed about all the units i cut off so that makes my day a lot brighter. He also said leningrad is going to be a slog this time instead of an easy right hook around ilmen and a cut off rail line.



bwheatley -> RE: Bwheatley vs abulbulian GC 1.5.18 beta (no abulbulian) (10/19/2011 4:20:29 PM)

He said he broke through to the units around smolensk. But we have held him up a few turns now.



kirkgregerson -> RE: Bwheatley vs abulbulian GC 1.5.18 beta (no abulbulian) (10/19/2011 5:30:19 PM)

Yeah I like it when I upset my opponents, it means I'm doing something right for a change.
[8D]

It's difficult for the Soviets in summer 41 to hold an encirclement of German units.  But you can delay them with this tactic as you just did.  Well done.



bwheatley -> RE: Bwheatley vs abulbulian GC 1.5.18 beta (no abulbulian) (10/21/2011 3:40:13 PM)

Ground Losses
[image]http://williamwheatley.com/billfiles/games/wite/images/pbem-ara/game3/t6-groundlosses.jpg[/image]

Air Losses
[image]http://williamwheatley.com/billfiles/games/wite/images/pbem-ara/game3/t6-airlosses.jpg[/image]

Destroyed Units
[image]http://williamwheatley.com/billfiles/games/wite/images/pbem-ara/game3/t6-destroyedunits.jpg[/image]




bwheatley -> RE: Bwheatley vs abulbulian GC 1.5.18 beta (no abulbulian) (10/21/2011 3:41:19 PM)

North of Map
[image]http://williamwheatley.com/billfiles/games/wite/images/pbem-ara/game3/t6-north.jpg[/image]

As we see it looks like he was able to push 4 hexes down the line. Now he's only 2 hexes from cutting the rail line. I'm contemplating pulling out. What do you guys think? In every other game i lose leningrad and i'm not sure if i want to suffer the loss of the 500,000 men in northwest & northern fronts.



bwheatley -> RE: Bwheatley vs abulbulian GC 1.5.18 beta (no abulbulian) (10/21/2011 3:51:19 PM)

Center
[image]http://williamwheatley.com/billfiles/games/wite/images/pbem-ara/game3/t6-center.jpg[/image]



bwheatley -> RE: Bwheatley vs abulbulian GC 1.5.18 beta (no abulbulian) (10/21/2011 3:52:09 PM)

South
[image]http://williamwheatley.com/billfiles/games/wite/images/pbem-ara/game3/t6-southern.jpg[/image]


[image]http://williamwheatley.com/billfiles/games/wite/images/pbem-ara/game3/t6-southern2.jpg[/image]


[image]http://williamwheatley.com/billfiles/games/wite/images/pbem-ara/game3/t6-farsouth.jpg[/image]



Q-Ball -> RE: Bwheatley vs abulbulian GC 1.5.18 beta (no abulbulian) (10/21/2011 4:11:01 PM)

I wouldn't pull out of Leningrad completely. I noticed you haven't fortified the "Back Door" hex at all, though, so you will fall quickly to siege if he reaches Lake Ladoga. If I am him, I don't bother getting to the Svir, and instead go straight for the Neva.

That being said, I would pile-on that spearhead along the Volkhov, and I would pull back out of the bulge to the West of that for the most part, though leave a line of units along the Rough and in front of Kolpino/Pushkin. There are a series of swamp hexes to the NW of that spearhead; have a unit in all of them. Make him fight to Ladoga. Don't worry about defending the spearhead to the SE, around Lake Ilmen; a Panzer thrust in that direction wouild be doing you a favor, and at any rate, they are fixed on Leningrad.

Make sure you get all the Cavalry out of that bulge, and over the Volkhov; those are the most valuable units.

But your're doomed up there regardless. I wouldn't send anymore reinforcements, because once Leningrad falls, you can just pull back into the endless forests up there.



bwheatley -> RE: Bwheatley vs abulbulian GC 1.5.18 beta (no abulbulian) (10/21/2011 4:40:57 PM)

Yea i goofed up with the new fort rules. Next game i'll probably have a better handle on it. Though in every game with ara so far this is the one where at least leningrad didn't fall to a surprise thrust somewhere i was not expecting it.

What is the back door hex you're talking about? Having lost leningrad every time perhaps its a concept i need to pay attention to :)



kirkgregerson -> RE: Bwheatley vs abulbulian GC 1.5.18 beta (no abulbulian) (10/21/2011 6:39:53 PM)

I think the back door hex Q-ball is referring to is across the Nerva getting the port.  Don't be to hard on yourself about Leningrad.  I've yet to see a capable axis player not take it if he really pushed for it.  That appears to be what is happening here.  I would still make him pay for every inch, but get the good units out.  You only need cheap infantry units in key locations.



Richard III -> RE: Bwheatley vs abulbulian GC 1.5.18 beta (no abulbulian) (10/21/2011 7:10:41 PM)

Is he still bombing your Airfields at this point ? Is that typical losses by this turn ? Those horrendous losses on the ground makes me think ( as a new guy ) it`s worthless to keep your air in the fight and best to move all to the reserve.



Q-Ball -> RE: Bwheatley vs abulbulian GC 1.5.18 beta (no abulbulian) (10/21/2011 10:26:47 PM)

The "Backdoor" is the hex directly east of Pavlovo. If the Germans can cross the Neva into that hex, Leningrad is doomed, because the next move will be to take the port. Game over.

Losing Leningrad is not shameful. Your real objective is to delay him.

And after Leningrad falls, there is absolutely nothing up there but trees. You can fall back into the woods as far as you need to go.



sillyflower -> RE: Bwheatley vs abulbulian GC 1.5.18 beta (no abulbulian) (10/22/2011 9:17:14 AM)

Leningrad clearly doomed but it seems to me that you still need to fight a delaying action- not least to stop early transfer of jerries to Moscow front. I have never not taken or, or held it against a good player.

At the risk of just statin' the bleedin' obvious, it's losing so many units that is really hurting you as you don't have enough to prevent encirclement, leading to a vicious circle.




bwheatley -> RE: Bwheatley vs abulbulian GC 1.5.18 beta (no abulbulian) (10/22/2011 11:09:16 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: sillyflower
Leningrad clearly doomed but it seems to me that you still need to fight a delaying action- not least to stop early transfer of jerries to Moscow front. I have never not taken or, or held it against a good player.

At the risk of just statin' the bleedin' obvious, it's losing so many units that is really hurting you as you don't have enough to prevent encirclement, leading to a vicious circle.


Yea losing units is the name of the game for the historic soviet player. It should be getting better though with the germans at their limit with supplies. The poor panzer are down to around 20MP or so according to Ara.

My only major losses were 10th army pocket, lvov pocket silliness, kiev pocket, and a few other units. Not really that bad compared to the first game i played with ara which i lost 4 million men by mud and was still pushing back hard in 42.

I was mostly just deciding if i wanted to let him pinch off leningrad or just leave a screen force behind. And the screen force looks like what i'll be doing.



kirkgregerson -> RE: Bwheatley vs abulbulian GC 1.5.18 beta (no abulbulian) (10/22/2011 6:20:35 PM)

I heard from abulbulian in pm that you guys not doing any HQ Build-Ups for entire game? Like a house rule or something? It was in a reply when I asked him when he planned to do some HQ Build-Ups to help give his Panzers some more MP. How did you guys decide on this house rule and why? Personally I think the axis player might be SOL in 41 and 42 without this. Going to be hard to make any encirclements with 20's and 30's MPs for mobile units. Supply will get better as lines catch up, but still.

[&:]



jzardos -> RE: Bwheatley vs abulbulian GC 1.5.18 beta (no abulbulian) (10/22/2011 6:53:14 PM)

I never worry too much about holding Leningrad.  Just bleed the facsist pigs before they get it. Supporting the Fins later will be a bit of a Achilles heal.


A little something that might look familiar for those Soviets players that think they can hold Leningrad against a decent dedicated axis player in 41.
[image]local://upfiles/37867/A96FB85A9D254355A7874B9B420478C5.jpg[/image]



bwheatley -> RE: Bwheatley vs abulbulian GC 1.5.18 beta (no abulbulian) (10/23/2011 11:29:20 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: kirkgregerson

I heard from abulbulian in pm that you guys not doing any HQ Build-Ups for entire game? Like a house rule or something? It was in a reply when I asked him when he planned to do some HQ Build-Ups to help give his Panzers some more MP. How did you guys decide on this house rule and why? Personally I think the axis player might be SOL in 41 and 42 without this. Going to be hard to make any encirclements with 20's and 30's MPs for mobile units. Supply will get better as lines catch up, but still.

[&:]



Well in our first game he never did a single HQ buildup. If it had not been for the easy ability for me to corp's up germany would have had a better 1942. I've never used it either as the soviets. I feel it's a crutch and it will hopefully be removed from the game completely once they get the logistics engine refactored.





bwheatley -> RE: Bwheatley vs abulbulian GC 1.5.18 beta (no abulbulian) (10/23/2011 11:30:40 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: jzardos

I never worry too much about holding Leningrad.  Just bleed the facsist pigs before they get it. Supporting the Fins later will be a bit of a Achilles heal.


A little something that might look familiar for those Soviets players that think they can hold Leningrad against a decent dedicated axis player in 41.
[image]local://upfiles/37867/A96FB85A9D254355A7874B9B420478C5.jpg[/image]


LOL thanks for the motivational speech jzardos. :) Yea you're right especially since we know the germans would have taken leningrad if hitler had not ordered a 3 week(3 turn) pause giving the soviets time to dig in.



bwheatley -> RE: Bwheatley vs abulbulian GC 1.5.18 beta (no abulbulian) (10/23/2011 9:15:11 PM)

I finished up the turn and sent it off. I broke out of all but the smolensk pocket. I did manage to get airhead supply to smolensk which should gives me good CV. I hope he tries to attack because it will be a slugfest. I wish they let airhead supply work to an airbase in a city or to the city itself. I'd be able to keep it supplied if that were the case. But oh well it buys us another turn.

Wiking got free in the south but we re-encircled it this turn. We also cut off 2 more panzer divisions as well. Have my line west of kharkov about 75% complete and now we only have 10 turns left until mud. A longggg ten turns.



Peltonx -> RE: Bwheatley vs abulbulian GC 1.5.18 beta (no abulbulian) (10/23/2011 10:00:08 PM)

How many armerment points have you lost?



bwheatley -> RE: Bwheatley vs abulbulian GC 1.5.18 beta (no abulbulian) (10/23/2011 10:07:14 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Pelton

How many armerment points have you lost?



I'll check in a bit i haven't lost very many. It's pretty close though i'm normally a turn maybe 2 away in most cases. In leningrad i had just finished getting the important bits out at the end of T6. If ara had pushed just a bit more he would have cut the rail and gotten everything there. That's just due to my underestimating how far those damn tanks can sprint in a turn. ;)



bwheatley -> RE: Bwheatley vs abulbulian GC 1.5.18 beta (no abulbulian) (10/24/2011 5:07:24 AM)

Some good news apparently i won a battle in the north that got a german general fired.  Glad to see the units by leningrad are finally starting to put up a fight.



bwheatley -> RE: Bwheatley vs abulbulian GC 1.5.18 beta (no abulbulian) (10/26/2011 5:59:48 PM)

Well it's an improvement i won 3 battles this turn instead of 2. Though somehow the germans were magically able to get ZOC on an adjacent hex and stop the soviet railroads. Cause the rail link to leningrad would have been completely closed if a unit got within 10 miles of a rail line. Damn tanks.



bwheatley -> RE: Bwheatley vs abulbulian GC 1.5.18 beta (no abulbulian) (10/27/2011 3:50:33 AM)

North,

a couple big **** ups. I forgot to fort up along north of leningrad.
And he managed to pop through cut the rail line with ZOC. In better news some of my best cavalry units were encircled. Perhaps something else could go wrong as well!

[image]http://williamwheatley.com/billfiles/games/wite/images/pbem-ara/game3/t7-north.jpg[/image]



bwheatley -> RE: Bwheatley vs abulbulian GC 1.5.18 beta (no abulbulian) (10/27/2011 3:53:03 AM)

Less Northerly
One of our 3 victories this turn we have our brave RD in the Valdai Hills stop a german infantry division cold in it's tracks at least.

[image]http://williamwheatley.com/billfiles/games/wite/images/pbem-ara/game3/t7-north_southern.jpg[/image]



bwheatley -> RE: Bwheatley vs abulbulian GC 1.5.18 beta (no abulbulian) (10/27/2011 3:56:38 AM)

Center
Smolensk at least still have 6 CV after restocking them with airhead supply last turn. Of course I can't keep them in airhead supply in an urban area so smolensk will probably fall next turn.


[image]http://williamwheatley.com/billfiles/games/wite/images/pbem-ara/game3/t7-center.jpg[/image]



bwheatley -> RE: Bwheatley vs abulbulian GC 1.5.18 beta (no abulbulian) (10/27/2011 3:59:03 AM)

Southern
My wiking encirclement got it's tables turned. 2 Armies are in an encirclement that looks like it might be a doozy to break out of.

[image]http://williamwheatley.com/billfiles/games/wite/images/pbem-ara/game3/t7-southern.jpg[/image]



bwheatley -> RE: Bwheatley vs abulbulian GC 1.5.18 beta (no abulbulian) (10/27/2011 4:01:59 AM)

Far South

Then to top it off with the far south. The thing that pisses me off most about this turn is that i forgot to fort up by leningrad. And 2 of the units i had in place to guard the rail line of leningrad must have had ammo failures because their cv dropped incredibly in a fight they should have won. A big pickle we're in but we're in the trading space for time game right now.

[image]http://williamwheatley.com/billfiles/games/wite/images/pbem-ara/game3/t7-farsouth.jpg[/image]



kirkgregerson -> RE: Bwheatley vs abulbulian GC 1.5.18 beta (no abulbulian) (10/28/2011 6:27:22 AM)

I think it's time to run away from Leningrad as fast as possible.  Leaving only some decent infantry units in key cities and forts to bleed the approaching German units.  After reading abubuilan's AAR, you seem to being doing a great job evacuating armaments factories and hvy industry.  This is frustrating him and I don't blame him as every armament factory moved to the east is more Soviet troops equipped to kill Germans in the future. Maybe you can tell me you secret sometime.  If you don't want to post it, just PM me.  [:D]



kirkgregerson -> RE: Bwheatley vs abulbulian GC 1.5.18 beta (no abulbulian) (10/28/2011 7:37:44 PM)

How did turn go?  Did you break out of that southern pocket?  Seems like a tough thing to do.  I believe the screen shots so far were from 'before' the turn?  Are you going to try and hold the Dnepr in the south for a turn or two? 



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