RE: Death to Marquo's Hitlerite Hordes! (Full Version)

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TulliusDetritus -> RE: Death to Marquo's Hitlerite Hordes! (10/12/2012 10:01:45 PM)

I try to keep contact with the enemy. This is where I plan to launch a big (oh well...) offensive. The artillery units you see are brigades, which I had created like one year ago.

Once the big brothers arrive I might send the little brothers up north, to keep trashing the Finns if they dare to block me! [sm=00000612.gif]

[image]local://upfiles/11562/5A7F766CDD824EA6BE4D89F832105EC8.jpg[/image]



TulliusDetritus -> RE: Death to Marquo's Hitlerite Hordes! (10/12/2012 10:52:27 PM)

Down south, I am finally linking forces: the ones south of Rostov and the ones in the vicinity of Stalingrad. I suspect Marquo plans to hide behind the Don. Chicken!

If anything, the two Tank Armies I am keeping here (they are being put to good use eh!) should convince him that that is a wise idea [sm=00000622.gif]

After all he is far from his own rail lines, since I kicked him out of Stalingrad area.

[image]local://upfiles/11562/DBD7F007812F4934A51F804F210EA8A4.jpg[/image]



TulliusDetritus -> RE: Death to Marquo's Hitlerite Hordes! (10/14/2012 3:22:20 PM)

Turn 94
1 April 1943

First part done [8D]

I finally have the historical number of artillery and rocket divisions: 37 regular and breakthrough and 7 rocket.

On the next turn I will start churning out the rifle corps: 6 per turn on the next 2 or 3 turns. HAHA, Marquo, we're coming! Confess your sins and prepare a nice testament [sm=00000612.gif] Dreams dreams dreams!

[image]local://upfiles/11562/A0283E2B54EE4D3B817ED77B2FDF40E1.jpg[/image]



TulliusDetritus -> RE: Death to Marquo's Hitlerite Hordes! (10/14/2012 3:46:58 PM)

And of course I still want to get to Kursk (so I keep pushing) and I am way too impatient [:D]

Anyway, here is my down payment, a taste of what he might be swallowing in the near future [sm=innocent0001.gif][sm=innocent0001.gif]

In the northern part basically only rifle divisions were involved (no corps that is). In the southern part of the screenshot there were corps involved. Yes, there is indeed a difference. Artillery brigades (NO divisions) were also involved in most of the attacks.

Also note that two of the successful attacks failed at first. I then attacked again (same stack but some units didn't have MPs left, same deliberate attack). And I kicked them out. Serves them right!

Oh, and most of the scummy enemies were in fortified hexes (minimum 1, and some level 2).

[image]local://upfiles/11562/E8D9623772B54230B98B42A7DE7079A6.jpg[/image]



TulliusDetritus -> RE: Death to Marquo's Hitlerite Hordes! (10/14/2012 4:02:09 PM)

Up north (as I suspected) Marquo has brought a bully to stop my bullies [:D] Anyway there's going to be a truce here. I abandon the pursuit mode and redeploy the forces to form a continous line.

I will attack if there are nice opportunities but I won't be bringing more units here. I plan to divert some rifle divisions from the NW and Kalinin Fronts (among others), but they are not expected to be sent to the north. The real enemy is in the south.

[image]local://upfiles/11562/69C7EC1B24D741F584457DE47139096C.jpg[/image]



TulliusDetritus -> RE: Death to Marquo's Hitlerite Hordes! (10/14/2012 4:24:11 PM)

And as predicted (that was easy eh), in the South he's hiding behind the Don [8D]

[image]local://upfiles/11562/272D25C4BF3446B9A6C4A0B74BB46232.jpg[/image]



TulliusDetritus -> RE: Death to Marquo's Hitlerite Hordes! (10/14/2012 4:28:09 PM)

By the way, did I say I want the bloody Second Front NOW! [sm=00000612.gif]

What are the British and Americans waiting for? Attack in let's say er... Sicily! That might divert part of the fascist hordes...



Klydon -> RE: Death to Marquo's Hitlerite Hordes! (10/14/2012 5:31:22 PM)

A Luftwaffe division shows up and you call it a bully? [:D]

When you first mentioned bully, I thougth a panzer division may have showed up, but then I saw the Luftwaffe division and laughed. Go kick that units butt. They are not even as good as the Finns and are just there to show some solidarity with their Finnish friends.



TulliusDetritus -> RE: Death to Marquo's Hitlerite Hordes! (10/14/2012 6:24:36 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Klydon

A Luftwaffe division shows up and you call it a bully? [:D]


Ah, you're observer. I am not! [:)] I hadn't moved the mouse over the unit. Yes, it's the 12 Luftwaffe Field Division. I guess the offensive CVs made it for you. I have to pay more attention.

The thing is I see a grey unit and I start trembling! [:D]

I will follow your advice and give them some stick as they clearly want to get some.

[image]local://upfiles/11562/3D7069C442BA4339BB801CF75C24F520.jpg[/image]



governato -> RE: Death to Marquo's Hitlerite Hordes!: training units (10/14/2012 8:46:25 PM)

Regarding your Artillery units:

- did you assign them to a Military district or just to STAVKA? (I think the former option makes them gain experience faster, especially with a M.D leader with a decent admin score).

- did you notice a significant difference in training speed between units 'on trains' and those in normal status?

both options are easy to test, but as you already have the units on the field I thought I should ask..

Tx!



TulliusDetritus -> RE: Death to Marquo's Hitlerite Hordes!: training units (10/14/2012 9:20:03 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: governato

Regarding your Artillery units:

- did you assign them to a Military district or just to STAVKA? (I think the former option makes them gain experience faster, especially with a M.D leader with a decent admin score).

- did you notice a significant difference in training speed between units 'on trains' and those in normal status?

both options are easy to test, but as you already have the units on the field I thought I should ask..

Tx!



The units you create are attached to Stavka. Hmm, if I do that when I reassign them to another HQ, shouldn't I pay APs? I did a test (assigning one of them to Moscow MD and then tried to reassign it to another command: I was forced to pay 1 AP). I really cannot afford that luxury. I prefer to see them as white units. This way I exactly know where my reserves are. After all that's what they are: strategic reserves. I can't help it, I'm an organization freak [8D]

As for the second question, you mean the units that end up the turn on train? I'm afraid I haven't paid attention to that.

And talking about APs... I can't:
1) appoint leaders [:(]
2) pay attention to the air war (manual upgrades) [:(]
3) rotate low moral units: I am forced to send these trashed units to the rear, but the gap is not filled; when the unit has recovered (3, 4 or 5 turns later) it comes back

edit: and in fact, I plan to use them (artillery divisions) pretty soon en masse and all of a sudden. I would be forced to pay many APs to reassign them to the Front HQs. They have to be ready. I call them, some train and there we go.



governato -> RE: Death to Marquo's Hitlerite Hordes!: training units (10/15/2012 3:05:37 AM)

You are in luck. If you play with any recent patch there is no AP cost in assigning units from Military Districts to any unit, and similarly from STAVKA to a M.D.

12.2.1 v1.05.59 – January 31, 2012
Soviet units attached to a Military District may change their HQ attachment at no admin point cost (same as units attached to Stavka).

I tried it and it works as written. I find M.D.s actually help me keeping my Red Army well organized.

Also, keeping units 'entrained while they train' would give you a significant added flexibility when you decide to deploy them, saving a few precious MPs.

I think I should just fire up a GC and test if M.Ds make a significant difference for unit training. I will report.



M60A3TTS -> RE: Death to Marquo's Hitlerite Hordes!: training units (10/15/2012 3:39:25 AM)

There's a Moscow Military District and later a Moscow Defense Zone. The Defense Zone is not the same as the MD and does cost to transfer units from it.



TulliusDetritus -> RE: Death to Marquo's Hitlerite Hordes!: training units (10/15/2012 1:49:56 PM)

I see, thank you [:)] I had tested with the Moscow D.Z. in fact. My bad. I tried with a proper M.D. and it works as you say.

The Moscow M.D. is already gone. The only option would be the Volga M.D. near Saratov.

Anyway if I well understood the units should be within the range of the HQ. Because after all Zhukov is already the Boss-in-Chief of the whole thing (stavka). I mean, a proper world class leader who should speed the training. But only to the units within range (not isolated that is, in red)?

The Moscow M.D. would not have been an option though. Stuck near Moscow (IIRC), Marquo's recon planes would detect them pretty soon. And of course he would notice they are on the move (once they are sent to the front to create a big mess). Hell, this turn one of his recon planes flied over Saratov! [:D]

But anyway, I should appoint a good leader to this Volga HQ. As I said I want to churn out rifle corps now. And there's still the problem of the support units... I have to raise them (APs) and then spread them among the new corps (more APs).

Trained or not (I don't think the difference will be that great), the artillery divisions will see action pretty soon concentrated in a 15-20 hexes frontage (may or june maximum). I suspect the German units cannot resist these attacks (especially when there's going to be corps instead of a mix of divisions and some corps), as per the small experiment this last turn, which I might call Operation Crazy Little Ivan [:D]

[image]local://upfiles/11562/9EE9E2F28232418FA264F7A3695C0840.jpg[/image]



TulliusDetritus -> RE: Death to Marquo's Hitlerite Hordes!: training units (10/15/2012 2:18:04 PM)

As you can see Marquo is getting a little bit paranoid [:D] And he is not aiming at the Urals because I guess his recon planes don't get that far.

[image]local://upfiles/11562/D3FD4A2BF2A34F53A63519F918FCDBAB.jpg[/image]



Schmart -> RE: Death to Marquo's Hitlerite Hordes! (10/16/2012 5:18:06 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: TulliusDetritus
I finally have the historical number of artillery and rocket divisions: 37 regular and breakthrough and 7 rocket.


Not trying to steal your thunder, as those nasty fascist pigs deserve the artillery pounding they are about to get, but just letting you know those historical numbers are for the END of the war. In early 43 the artillery division numbers would have been about half of what you've now produced. You may run into a tight Arm Pt situation if you don't control the max TOE of all those Art Divs.



TulliusDetritus -> RE: Death to Marquo's Hitlerite Hordes! (10/16/2012 7:03:10 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Schmart
You may run into a tight Arm Pt situation if you don't control the max TOE of all those Art Divs.


"Tight"?

LOL

Say desperate as it is more accurate! [:D]

I'm at work but I don't need to have the turn under my eyes to tell you I have right now exactly ZERO armament points right now... [:o]

I didn't have enough armament points to begin with. Because had I bought only the rifle corps the situation would be the same. AND I should be able to create these corps. I won't stop doing that as I stubbornly said. If I can't do anything until 1944 so be it... Game over on my book [8D]

Said this, you raise a more than valid point! And just like infamous General Turgidson I got a little bit excited methinks.

And I think it's too late, the artillery units already have circa the 90% of their TOE [:D]



TulliusDetritus -> RE: Death to Marquo's Hitlerite Hordes! (10/16/2012 8:46:57 PM)

Turn 95
8 April 1943

Hmm, I'm beginning to smell a big fat commie rat. Oops, no wait, I am the "commie" here [:D]

Marquo keeps leaving buffer hexes, especially in the south. Not sure he is preparing some sort of trap.

[image]local://upfiles/11562/9E4DF927C18C421E99245548798B0E0A.gif[/image]



TulliusDetritus -> RE: Death to Marquo's Hitlerite Hordes! (10/16/2012 8:51:58 PM)

Here you are an example [8D] Pre Soviet moves, recon planes used.

[image]local://upfiles/11562/E0FA2B46F6C24F228C03F9AD2B17F7DB.jpg[/image]



TulliusDetritus -> RE: Death to Marquo's Hitlerite Hordes! (10/16/2012 9:03:45 PM)

Here I could understand it more, as this is where I attacked the last turn (Operation Crazy Little Ivan that is).

A trap (I will discuss this) or some sort of terror (I doubt it) it's a good thing if he keeps offering me free hexes. I really need a more or less historical 1943 frontline. Psychological, ok.

But hell, I started the game with a simple idea: no matter what I will be getting to Berlin [:(]

[image]local://upfiles/11562/2B80437BD930451280A391631B04D47B.jpg[/image]



TulliusDetritus -> RE: Death to Marquo's Hitlerite Hordes! (10/16/2012 9:27:14 PM)

And from now on, let's assume I will not be giving up, because this turn I will create 6 Rifle Corps. Same thing next turn. And so on and so on [;)] If I can't have that, Houston, we have a problem methinks. Not to mention the really low manpower numbers... Didn't the Soviets mobilize circa 30 million men? [;)]

I've no idea what Marquo will be doing. I think there are 5 scenarios (big deal eh [:D])

Perhaps it's going to be scenario #5: defend...

[image]local://upfiles/11562/D45CAC31C84C4936BFEBED5415FA4860.jpg[/image]



M60A3TTS -> RE: Death to Marquo's Hitlerite Hordes! (10/16/2012 9:54:07 PM)

A couple constructive comments

I know you love these STAVKA armies, but you're getting combat penalties in doing so, and would suggest assigning many of these to fronts. You can overload them with a front commander that has a good admin rating, 6+.

You said you're not paying attention to the air war. You need to start, and some of it doesn't require spending APs. Get your best fighter and tac bombers onto bases supporting your fronts that will be carrying the offensive. Max out the bomber bases with nine IL-2 regiments and have at least four, preferably six of these assigned to the aviation front. That will give you at least 1,000 tac aircraft in support. I like putting equally experience fighter or FB's there as well because they will be involved in the most fighting. It only costs a single AP to reassign an air base and there are no admin limits for aviation front HQs. You want to have enough planes to support the attacks on his frontline ground units but also be rady to ground bomb the mobile reserves in the vicinity of your push.




TulliusDetritus -> RE: Death to Marquo's Hitlerite Hordes! (10/16/2012 10:22:45 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: M60A3TTS
I know you love these STAVKA armies, but you're getting combat penalties in doing so, and would suggest assigning many of these to fronts. You can overload them with a front commander that has a good admin rating, 6+.


I think it's the units directly attached to Stavka that suffer that penalty. If they are attached (and within range) to a HQ attached to Stavka = no penalties. Maybe this was changed though [:)]

I love them, right, and for a good reason. Concentrating your forces is only possible if you have armies directly attached to Stavka. Under the current state of the game that is... Reassigning whole armies, dozens of divisions or corps is just prohibitive.

In my opinion you have to have everywhere the minimum you need. That's step one. Then some places might need more: ok, you send and attach forces to these Front armies. That's step two. But that's all.

Then come the operations. Defensive or offensive, it doesn't matter. All the units that are not really necessary at the frontline (economy of forces) are at your disposal (the strategic reserves).

Then you can send them to x or y according to your plans or needs. But they will never be supposed to be stuck at some concrete spot. Your needs may change: you might need a concentration of forces near Leningrad and then perhaps next the Black Sea.

Given that reassigning lots of units assigned to let's say the Leningrad Front to the new theatre of war (let's say Southern Front) is simply prohibitive, you really cannot afford that, you would end up with Leningrad Front armies fighting near the Black Sea. Their Front HQ thousands of kilometers up north. It does not make any sense [:)]

I will use the Stavka armies until the Judgement Day. It really simulates what the Stavka was doing during the war.

IF reassigning armies, lots of divisions and corps was not so expensive I would indeed attach them to the Front HQ in charge of the main fight. But once the operation was over I would always reassign them to Stavka. To simply know -and quickly- the state, number or the reserves at my disposal.



Schmart -> RE: Death to Marquo's Hitlerite Hordes! (10/16/2012 10:41:10 PM)

I do the same with Stavka Armies. I tend to leave Tank and Shock Armies, as well as some Cavalry heavy armies attached to Stavka for simplicity in moving them around and acting as fire-brigades. Re-assigning Armies is very AP expensive, something the Russians don't have an abundance of until after 1943. APs in 42-43 are almost exclusively spent on building/re-building the Russian Army.



TulliusDetritus -> RE: Death to Marquo's Hitlerite Hordes! (10/16/2012 10:46:55 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: M60A3TTS
You said you're not paying attention to the air war. You need to start, and some of it doesn't require spending APs. Get your best fighter and tac bombers onto bases supporting your fronts that will be carrying the offensive. Max out the bomber bases with nine IL-2 regiments and have at least four, preferably six of these assigned to the aviation front. That will give you at least 1,000 tac aircraft in support. I like putting equally experience fighter or FB's there as well because they will be involved in the most fighting. It only costs a single AP to reassign an air base and there are no admin limits for aviation front HQs. You want to have enough planes to support the attacks on his frontline ground units but also be rady to ground bomb the mobile reserves in the vicinity of your push.


Well, that was a gross exageration from my part, sorry [:)] It' s just that, er, as a WitP AE player the air thing on this game is just way too primitive. Utter sophistication on one side (WitP AE: there are individual pilots that you can order to NOT fly, for example, sack and reassign squadron leaders...), a Spartan approach on the other (WitE).

If I had enough APs I could micromanage (as I love to do in WitP) my Red Air Force. But it's discourageing [:(] I want a VVS air base to put recon planes there and send it to an important spot but I get random bases... In the end, parts of the front cannot be reconned as there are not enough VVS bases.

I have lots of ShaP Fighter Bomber units that in theory should be upgraded to IL-2s but I can't do that (lack of APs), I have to wait for the automatic upgrade.

In other words, I am not paying enough attention to the air war because I can't do what I would like to do. It's abstract, that's all.

But still, I try to stay organized. This is (the screenshot) the minimum I have in every Front. Except the VVS, as I have said: simply not enough for everyone.

So in fact I have lots of IL-2s.

For the next offensive there's going to be an air concentration of forces as well. I plan to attach more air bases filled especially with tactical and level bombers to the fronts involved in the operation.

The screenshot: air force (3rd Air Army) attached to Kalinin Front [8D]

[image]local://upfiles/11562/B19C4E92E2C74757BD4761FF77498994.jpg[/image]



M60A3TTS -> RE: Death to Marquo's Hitlerite Hordes! (10/16/2012 11:19:07 PM)

OMG, it's Spring of '43 and you're flying I-153s and I-15-bis??? Luftwaffe fodder.

Just put the recon plane on a non-VVS base, it will still fly.



randallw -> RE: Death to Marquo's Hitlerite Hordes! (10/17/2012 12:15:18 AM)

Guess he has air units on auto-upgrade and they haven't flipped yet ( continuing bug problem? ).



TulliusDetritus -> RE: Death to Marquo's Hitlerite Hordes! (10/17/2012 12:21:08 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: M60A3TTS

OMG, it's Spring of '43 and you're flying I-153s and I-15-bis??? Luftwaffe fodder.

Just put the recon plane on a non-VVS base, it will still fly.


Oops, I thought I had sent the lot of them to the National Reserve and brought modern planes. Looks like I only had replaced part of them. Then I forgot [:D] I have found like 20 units with obsolete planes in the whole front. Thanks! [&o]

Randall, hmm, not sure this is a bug. I guess I should have sent them to the national reserve and then wait until they automatically upgrade.

And that's a good thing about WitP AE. Upgrading is totally free. You just have to meet a serie of rational conditions [:)]



76mm -> RE: Death to Marquo's Hitlerite Hordes! (10/17/2012 2:49:19 AM)

I think you should have enough VVS bases for just about all the fronts; IIRC the Northern and Southern fronts in particular have multiple VVS airbases, so some can be assigned to other fronts.



TulliusDetritus -> RE: Death to Marquo's Hitlerite Hordes! (10/20/2012 3:52:26 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: M60A3TTS
Just put the recon plane on a non-VVS base, it will still fly.


Unbelievable! [:@] Playing the game since its release and I was convinced the Recon planes only could fly from a VVS Air Base! [:@][:@] This rule only applies to transport planes. And not exactly. I re-read the rule [:D]

"Soviet partisan units are supplied through night air transport missions conducted automatically by the computer during the Soviet logistics phase. The computer will first utilize transport and level bomber air group units set to night missions and attached to VVS type air base units (8.2.1). If those night mission enabled air group units attached to VVS air base units are not sufficient to meet the partisan needs, then transport and level bomber air group units set to night missions and attached to DBAD, AD DD, GAD DD, and GDBAD air base units may be selected by the computer to also transport supplies to partisan units."

I sort of confused the recon with the transport (partisans issue) planes thing. Oh well...

In other words, so far I have been playing with limited intel [:D]



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