RE: Dabai Tovarischi! (Full Version)

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TulliusDetritus -> RE: Dabai Tovarischi! (12/11/2011 1:06:37 AM)

Sure [:)]

1st Guards Mountain = 55
2nd Guards Mountain = 58



Flaviusx -> RE: Dabai Tovarischi! (12/11/2011 1:21:48 AM)

That's very high morale for the Sovs at this time. Very difficult to get above 50 in early 42.

It's also quite unlikely that training will increase it much or at all. You'll be doing well if they can maintain that morale as they take in replacements.




randallw -> RE: Dabai Tovarischi! (12/11/2011 4:21:02 AM)

So replacements have their own morale, and that can adjust the morale of a unit, since a new average morale has to be calculated?  I used to think replacements made no effect, or just brought morale that the unit already had.



TulliusDetritus -> RE: Dabai Tovarischi! (12/11/2011 1:44:47 PM)

These Guards Mountain Divisions are not the best units. Look at the mighty 65th Rifle Division, fighting in the Volkhov Front 52nd Army. Now that's morale! I will pull this unit back and assign it to a Shock Army. The morale might rise to 65 if I well understood, A nice monster I should put to good use during the summer [8D]

[image]local://upfiles/11562/7A877491541F4136968B6BF9A41533CF.jpg[/image]



TulliusDetritus -> RE: Dabai Tovarischi! (12/11/2011 1:50:33 PM)

From this

quote:

ORIGINAL: M60A3TTS
[X(] That's like 150 of them. @3,000 men per Brigade= 450,000.


and this

quote:

ORIGINAL: Flaviusx
I'm not so sure having that many RR brigades matters so much anymore, tbh. I build as many as you do and am no longer very impressed with the results. The front is so fluid in so many spots that it could be argued that a lot of this manpower tied to construction assets is wasted.


And the low state of the armaments:

I have concluded I am going to disband many RR brigades. Hmm, each army will have only 1 RR Brigade. No RR Brigades for the fronts either.

I have also disbanded like 15 Fortified Regions this turn.

So again thanks for your sound advices [8D]



Flaviusx -> RE: Dabai Tovarischi! (12/11/2011 2:52:16 PM)

Well, it's not advice, exactly, more like thinking out loud. I'm not sure if this is the way to go, but clearly fort building strategy post 1.05 needs some adjustment.

The other thing I'm thinking about changing: switching out RR brigades for sappers. Leave 1-2 of those per army. (None per front. I think fronts should keep some brigades for actual RR repair purposes, as a matter of fact.) Sappers offer both defensive and offensive benefits. So they're not just diggers. You can get up to 6 SUs into any non urban battle from any given HQ, and I'm liking sapper regiments as part of the mix. Especially on those cross river attack where they won't be disrupted. (I also like putting in one tank battalion per army. So each army has artillery, engineering and a bit of AFV combat support.)

If your armies aren't moving, the sappers can pitch in an help digging, but if they're fighting, they can do that too. More cost effective in the post 1.05 environment.



gingerbread -> RE: Dabai Tovarischi! (12/11/2011 2:53:38 PM)

Disband the RR brigades? The plan you sketch (14/front -> 5/front) would cost you 100+ AP. Could be cost effective to just set the TOE for the RR's to 50% until you start advancing again.



Flaviusx -> RE: Dabai Tovarischi! (12/11/2011 2:55:31 PM)

Yeah, Gingerbread brings up a good point. APs are precious. But for your next game, you can switch it up a bit. Now is probably a bit too late, in for a penny in for a pound.




TulliusDetritus -> RE: Dabai Tovarischi! (12/11/2011 3:07:41 PM)

That's indeed correct, lots of APs. Well, it simulates the mistakes done in the real thing too [8D]

When I think about APs, I think about a pie. Starting in april, minimum 1 Tank Corps will be formed per turn (on the first turn perhaps 2 or 3 in fact). Then I might disband 5 RR Brigades per turn = 5 APS. The air force: I might upgrade the I-1xs to modern planes, let's say 2 or 3 groups per turn = 3 APs.

etc etc, you get the idea.

As for sappers, all my armies already have one sapper regiment minimum.



TulliusDetritus -> RE: Dabai Tovarischi! (12/11/2011 3:10:46 PM)

Anyway, I won't be advancing, I will be retreating towards Vladivostok in 1942. So repairing rail hexes is an impossible task [:)]



Q-Ball -> RE: Dabai Tovarischi! (12/11/2011 3:30:27 PM)

RE: Those two mountain divisions, and Morale/Experience in general....

Morale doesn't drop as you take replacements; experience does. Regardless of REFIT or whatnot, elements will gain experience up to the morale of the unit, but no further. Thus, while those Mountain Divisions will likely NOT gain morale at this time parked in the rear, they might gain CV because all the elements will slowly train up until Experience = Morale. They only gain a point a week, so depending on where they are it could take a while.

I have observed that units will gain morale, very slowly, ABOVE the NM into the Mid-50s or so. If you park any of the Romanian or Italian units in the rear long enough, they will have morale and experience around 53-55 or so. That seems to be about the limit. Maybe high-50s, but it can take quite awhile.




TulliusDetritus -> RE: Dabai Tovarischi! (12/11/2011 4:19:51 PM)

Anyway, I think these units have really high morale mostly because of luck. In theory each time you achieve a victory the morale is increased. I suspect a) these units were already "decent" units, b) they harvested nice victories (the blizzard offensive) and finally c) they were spared from defeats.

Had they been next to the enemy before blizzard they would have certainly suffered defeats (= loss of morale). But given that I don't pay attention to the victories/defeats thing (I hate this accountant thing), it's er... a matter of pure luck, coincidence (just like the 1st Guards Army thing): they happened to be there and harvested many wins. And of course they happened to be elsewhere when sounding defeats were trashing many Red Army units [:D]

Q-Ball, then no morale drop. Thank you [:)]

EDIT: no, wait, the Guards Army (or former 20 Army) was really trashed. My mistake, sorry.



TulliusDetritus -> RE: Dabai Tovarischi! (12/11/2011 6:35:02 PM)

Alrite [8D] Bad news for the two Guards Mountain Divisions and Gorky vodka suppliers and good news for the Gorky nurses. Holidays cancelled!

I have redone everything as I wasn't happy. I hadn't moved anything in the frontline, not a single attack either. So the elite mountain guys are going to dig, just like everyone else! As long as they are minimum 10 hexes away from enemy units (and on refit mode) it's absolutely the same.

Same thing for all the Strategic Reserves (Cavalry and future Tank Corps included). Whilst they wait for the enemy summer agressive movements they will be digging. Ha! What were they thinking? But they are not pure diggers. If I see the enemy is on the move they will inmediately stop digging and prepare for the attack (aka concentrate the lot of them). Rifle Brigades should be occupying these hexes: they should have good fort levels. Cavalry Corps -especially- are digging monsters. Construction value > 40 [X(] They must be put to good use.

I have analyzed the whole thing and this is what I need if I am not mistaken (the screenshot), IF Marquo plans to get to Vladivostok that is. I'm waiting! [sm=00000055.gif]

The black arrows indicate axis of advance (aka rail lines). He needs them yes or yes [8D]

edit: on the screenshot I forgot the area east of Voroshilovgrad. Yes, I have diggers there and yes, that might be another axis of advance.

[image]local://upfiles/11562/3A2C5DB3A1E04D4F817B2196321EA69C.jpg[/image]



Encircled -> RE: Dabai Tovarischi! (12/11/2011 9:02:30 PM)

Well, you are safe there, but you still need to make sure the Don is garrisoned so he can't just go across.

Not much stopping him sweeping up or down if he HQ build ups otherwise



TulliusDetritus -> RE: Dabai Tovarischi! (12/11/2011 9:31:49 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Encircled

Well, you are safe there, but you still need to make sure the Don is garrisoned so he can't just go across.

Not much stopping him sweeping up or down if he HQ build ups otherwise


Yes, there will be of course some troops. But if he does not get these rail lines he won't get too far (in fact I affirm he won't), that's the point. Now he could try to advance via this dead zone to surprise my forces defending the approaches to these aformentioned rail lines he needs IF he wants to push eastwards [8D] Either way, like a bee attracted to honey he should strike the same place, but from a different direction, with POOR logisitics. Big river + no rail lines...






TulliusDetritus -> RE: Dabai Tovarischi! (12/12/2011 10:09:21 PM)

Overwhelming [X(] But now yes the whole front looks much more rational. Some few adjustments might be made here and there but it's 98,47% done.

Anyway, given that among the Strategic Reserves there are quite many units which are basically worthless (morale < 40) I will gather the lot of them and send them to... guess guess... Gorky! So keep bringing vodka and nurses.

I do that simply to make sure I know how many useless units are training. Therefore the units that will not be in the vicinity of this doomed city will be ready units that is. In fact I have already formed the following Stavka Armies (with TROOPS assigned to them that is):

Shock: 1, 2, 3, 4
Guards: 1
Regular: 3, 32, 37, 39, 40, 60

Total armies: 11 [8D]



TulliusDetritus -> RE: Dabai Tovarischi! (12/12/2011 11:20:18 PM)

Aghhh, this is the last time I screenshot the whole front [:-] Well, not until the end of the year 42 perhaps.

The white units you see in the frontline are either diggers or Stavka Armies. When it's the latter I write the number of the army.

[image]local://upfiles/11562/2CC8AC12F4E0413BA8679A91CC48F405.jpg[/image]



TulliusDetritus -> RE: Dabai Tovarischi! (12/12/2011 11:23:11 PM)

Second

[image]local://upfiles/11562/FA6C6ADCDBFA414886725B5B413811C4.jpg[/image]



TulliusDetritus -> RE: Dabai Tovarischi! (12/12/2011 11:23:54 PM)

And the last one

[image]local://upfiles/11562/638BB7554154442EA149A8DF2496B0C5.jpg[/image]



TulliusDetritus -> RE: Dabai Tovarischi! (12/12/2011 11:29:19 PM)

In fact, the frontline units, retreating in some cases 1 or 2 hexes in the Bryansk, Southwestern and Southern Fronts are occupying hexes that some brigades were guarding. Not that they built forts (they didn't [:-]), but avoided at least the degradation of these forts. These brigades are sent to the gaps in the first defensive line... Let's see if now they dig a little faster (harsh weather is over). But er, I doubt it. Therefore I suspect I will change my plan accordingly: I will be forming Rifle Divisions and get rid of these mini-worthless-ants [:D] We will see.



TulliusDetritus -> RE: Dabai Tovarischi! (12/12/2011 11:31:36 PM)

Oh, but before retreating in the Southwestern and Southern Fronts I terrorised 4 weak Axis allies divisions (4 different attacks, all of them successful). Just in case [sm=00000622.gif]



TulliusDetritus -> RE: Dabai Tovarischi! (12/13/2011 9:32:44 PM)

Turn 42
2 April 1942

April! and the question is: what do you harvest in april? Tank Corps! [8D]

I have created the 1st and 2nd Tank Corps and assigned support to them: 2 x Tank Bns + 1 x Sapper regiment.

The good thing is that given I almost didn't use the Tank Brigades during the blizzard and that they were minimum 10 hexes away from enemy units, the morale is > 50. And that's the morale of the two tank corps. Still, experience is low so a lot of hard work is expected.

The manpower and armaments were really low (less than 10.000). The last turn I disbanded 15 FR, 5 RR brigades and ajusted the TOE of many units. Now the numbers are better.

[image]local://upfiles/11562/99E44E2D500E4D2B97475C2A2C81260E.jpg[/image]



TulliusDetritus -> RE: Dabai Tovarischi! (12/13/2011 9:41:14 PM)

Now the front seen from the outer space. It's about the reserves here: Stavka Armies (where are they located) and Independent divisions attached to Stavka.

[image]local://upfiles/11562/DA31A98763E24D3181F284BD32350C4A.jpg[/image]



TulliusDetritus -> RE: Dabai Tovarischi! (12/13/2011 9:49:12 PM)

More

[image]local://upfiles/11562/4DDE32172454442EBBCA5E3D044DCA7B.jpg[/image]



TulliusDetritus -> RE: Dabai Tovarischi! (12/13/2011 10:00:51 PM)

And the southern part of the front. In fact, given that Marquo is clearly concentrating his forces in the south, I have to assume that's where he wants to strike: Stalingrad and/or Caucasus.

Now all the armies except around Moscow are around 16:24, some even less. The Southern Front armies included. They should be minimum 20:24 (10 divisions that is). And that's when the INDEPENDENT Stavka Rifle Divisions (regular, not guards in this case) are handy [8D] From the screenshots you can see I have 24 READY divisions, so I can afford this strategic movement of troops.

[image]local://upfiles/11562/9BD87625C159462AB82A7C894766B56B.jpg[/image]



TulliusDetritus -> RE: Dabai Tovarischi! (12/13/2011 10:08:54 PM)

But in fact I have more hordes.

Meanwhile in Gorky... [8|]

I have gathered the units with morale under 40 around that city. By summer they should be ready [;)]

[image]local://upfiles/11562/6116992A70724C02A46627B6378429AD.jpg[/image]



M60A3TTS -> RE: Dabai Tovarischi! (12/13/2011 10:22:29 PM)

One thing I noticed at Turn 43 of my game was that the tank corps experience actually dropped from the previous week.  I'd be curious to know if you encounter the same thing.  I thought the drop was immediate after forming the corps and it would start to recover next turn.



TulliusDetritus -> RE: Dabai Tovarischi! (12/13/2011 10:46:02 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: M60A3TTS

One thing I noticed at Turn 43 of my game was that the tank corps experience actually dropped from the previous week.  I'd be curious to know if you encounter the same thing.  I thought the drop was immediate after forming the corps and it would start to recover next turn.


Ah, I will screenshot the two units now and then compare on next turn. Thanks for letting me know [:)]



TulliusDetritus -> RE: Dabai Tovarischi! (12/13/2011 10:51:17 PM)

On the screenshot I haven't mentioned the 1st Guards Army (5 Rifle Divisions + 1 Cavalry Corps, all of them Guards obviously). They are staying near Moscow, just in case [:-]



TulliusDetritus -> RE: Dabai Tovarischi! (12/13/2011 11:21:22 PM)

Anyway, some (so-called [:D]) strategic considerations in the center. What was I expecting and what e-enemy moves I am detecting. I have no clue about his intentions so I won't try to understand what's going on.

[image]local://upfiles/11562/6465B5A6C7244E519487E8453161B00A.jpg[/image]



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